A possible revamp to Shadow Assassin Kayn

RJ01··3 votes·2,913 views

Table of contents- 1.Why SA(shadow assassin) is a less viable pick then Rhaast and what is holding him back 2.What can be changed for SA to feel a lot less like a clone with different effects 3.Conclusion and overall things that can be changed for kayn in general (Feel free to skip to number 2 if you want to peep the ideas)

  1. What makes SA a unsafe pick from Rhaast and what is holding him back as a assassin:

So after playing kayn for a while and seeing the new odyssey skin in the new game mode i thought of some cool ideas to make shadow assassin a more viable/more distinct pick from Rhaast. We all know that Rhaast is overall the safer pick in almost all situations including versus squishy champs because of how much healing he gets and how bulky he is (he actually feels like a darkin which stays true to their lore). On the other hand we have a ZED taught student who has the ability to control shadows and turn them into a weapons or images. Zed himself shows the capabilities of the shadow technique in his gameplay. His w allows him to send a shadow in the direction he chooses and can control it by using his other abilities like q or e. And his ult stands out the most as it gives him invincibility (i think) and he leaves a death mark on and enemy that is effected by how much damage zed has done to the opponent after the ability ends. Now there are things that stand out for zed that truly makes him a assassin which is his ability to put out massive damage in a short period of time, the ability to escape or retreat after he has executed an enemy, and his q which is some what of a poke ability in lane which could get an enemy low enough for a kill. Shadow assassin kayn is so mediocre compared to his master as it looks like he only took little advice from him. All the shadow assassin has is his w and e which seems to be the only thing he learned from master zed. SA strives at bursting down enemies but really only if he hits his w as it is his main damage ability before he gets to pulls off the combo w-q-r to finish a target off if they haven't already died from his initial w and auto attack damage. There is a problem with these abilities for shadow assassin. First off e is his main engage tool as that's the primary way he can catch some one off guard from terrain and the way he gets most of his kills. But the problem with his e is that although it is a great engage tool, its really his only escape ability so you only use it for one or the other. If there is one thing we know about SA it is how squishy he can be. Even if you learn positioning it is still dangerous for him to ever go in as even though he can kill someone in a second the same thing can happen for him. Now on to his most mediocre ability which is his ult. Now even though his R gives him intangibility or makes him untargetable (not invincibility) he is still damaged from things like ignite or any other damage over time ability, which makes the ult a whole lot more suicidal than anything. To make matters worse it doesn't even do that much damage at short duration and max duration which is pitiful if SA is supposed to be a assassin. The ult doesn't even have the ability to execute people below a certain amount of health which makes the engage kinda worthless if you use all your abilities and the enemy is left with a sliver of health. Overall I feel like SA's ult should be revamped and made into something new which i will get to next. (Also it would be nice to get feedback on any points i made in that passage)

2.What can be changed about the Shadow Assassin: His ability to get in and get out- Most Assassins are able to do this why shouldn't kayn? First look at his engage tool his e. -It gives SA a movement speed for a set amount of time in terrain and cc immunity -it doesn't have to many uses on the ground as it last only for a very short duration on ground -Its intended purposes are to surprise some one or escape Now one thing that already can be changed for SA is the uses for his e on the ground. Instead of just being a little speed boost it should be something like rammus's power ball except not as ridiculous. It would function like it but won't have a stun effect, it would only be used for a speed boost. It could gradually build speed or it could be a burst of movement speed that slowly decays like pykes w. Now how can this be both a escape and a engage tool? Well this is were it could receive a passive. If kayn kills an enemy after shadow step has ended it completely refreshes the cool down and cost more Mp every time its refreshed to balance it. The other option is to cut the cool down in half or by a significant amount if he gets a kill. This will give SA the actual feeling of being a assassin as when he kills someone and escapes he can have the feeling of getting away with murder instead of going on a kamikaze attack.

His q ability: -Mainly used as extra damage to finish people off or a escape over a small wall New Name: Death Wave or Death Sickle(depending on what it would look like) The problem with the original ability is that it seems like it coulda been a lot more than just a kayn spin with his scythe. It should feel more Shadow Assassin like. Something that caught my interest was the odyssey kayn boss's attack. There was one attack that he could use where there would be a circle of blue sickles or mini circles that would gradually close in on the player and deal a good bit of damage if they were touched. Why not take inspiration from that and give SA a new ability on his q. He would throw a shadow sickle or wave from his scythe that deals physical damage to an enemy champion. It could function as SA's ranged ability in team fights or can be good in lane so he wont just be getting poked down himself the whole time and he can do small trades with it. Basically it just helps overall as he can either use it to get some one low enough before he goes in or use it as a harass tool in lane. Also it would be like zeds q to make it not over powered so it deals less damage the more enemies it hits.

SA's ultimate: -Is supposed to be used for.......killing?????Doesn't work to well sometimes unless the opposing champion is literally 1 hp -Gives some type of invulnerability(still is damaged by things like ignite or red buff burn) -Overall not a good choice over its counter parts ultimate Full revamp to SA's ultimate: Number 1 idea New Name: The Unwilling Cutter- Oh boy if you thought SA was already edgy this ultimate idea brings the edge to a whole other level. Now I have a couple of different ideas for a new ultimate but by far this is my favorite. The idea is SA actually throwing his scythe like a boomerang in a straight direction executing enemies below a certain amount of health. Now i bet your like no that's sounds op taking out multiple people with execute damage but please hear me out there is a way to balance this. While kayn's scythe is thrown and not in his hands he is unable to use a basic auto attack and neither can he use his q until it has returned to him but his e would still be available to use as a disengage. This ult would do a very good amount of base damage and have a execute passive to it. Its a cool sounding ability as kayn can use both his q and w first to get the enemy low then execute them to finish the kill escaping with e. But this combo only works if he is able to hit both his q and w 1st to get the enemies low enough. But overall this fits the shadow assassin's quote "MY PATH CUTS THROUGH THE BODIES OF THE UNWILLING" Also the scythe could do damage upon being thrown and returning. Lets just say the throw is its initial damage and it returning is the execute damage.

Number 2 idea Name: Shadow Clone- My second idea was kayn summoning a shadow clone behind or on side of him to mimic everything he does. This could double the damaged output he does. it would be very helpful in team fights as it will do massive damage to a crowd if he hits his w. Also the shadow would function like zeds shadow images, like if zed throws his q at a enemy in front of him and his shadow image is behind the person instead of the image throwing a q in the same direction as zed it goes to where zed was aiming at increasing his damage output. This would be the same with kayn except the clone would be moving and running at the same pace as kayn. The only problem with this ult is that it can prove to be OP if the damage for the shadow clone is the exact same as kayn. Just imagine we thought the burst meta was bad enough the shadow clone would just be even worse since SA all ready does a massive amount of damage if he hits his abilities. The only way to balance this would be to make the clone do half or a 3rd of kayn's total attack damage.

Number 3 last idea Name: Shadow barrage- Third and final idea was to take reference from zeds tactics in the cinematic created by the riot staff animators. In the cinematic where zed fought against Xayah in what looked like a ancient ruin covered in zeds pupils/henchmen. During the fight zed did something very cool which was he split him self into multiple shadows in unison that all used one attack to try and finish Xayah off. This could work as a ult for kayn. It could be a targeted ability just like zed that gives him invincibility I guess but instead of leaving a mark that deals more damage the more damage zed has done to the target it would execute enemies below a certain amount of health .It would be fairly balanced as the damage would be fully percent missing health damage but it would be my last option for a ult because I don't see kayn doing this in game really but an idea is a idea. I really love my 1st idea tho it fits SA so well. Link to what inspired this idea : https://youtu.be/EWdTLLQlkkI (skip to 1:49)

3 Last comments and quality of life changes to kayn in general Shadow Assassin like I said is most often if not always the worse choice out of the two that are given. SA just isn't as viable as his counter part especially in jungle where sustain is a big help with clearly camps. These ideas will hopefully shed some light on what the shadow assassin can be if riot actually takes advice from there players and supporters( I support them a lot with how much money I spend on this game lol).It still can keep SA balanced as he will still be squishy. But yeah lets try and get this noticed and hopefully viewed by a riot employee. Lastly some quality of life changes to kayn's game play could be a big help. Like if instead of a certain type of champion giving you a certain color orb why not just make everyone give the same orb and let the player choose who they really want to play without being punished for hitting the only champion they could possibly get their hands on. This will make kayn progress a lot faster without having to constantly gank a lane where he wants a certain orb. it would let him be able to gank a losing lane without someone complaining they aren't being helped. Also to make up for the change on SA's q make Rhaast's e be able to give him bonus armor and magic resist or something while on ground kinda like a charge but only when used on the ground it fits what the picture looks like anyway.

Thanks if you read the whole thing I would like to see your responses to this topic. Also it would help if you could spread this topic to others so it can be noticed for its greatness. Everythings up for discussion.

12 Comments

Ðu Šhiedah 2 votes

HEY BOY NO ONE WILL READ ALL OF THIS

But i want an answer of the question I saw many vids on yt and I saw whenever someone picks Kayn he goes Darkin why then? They don't even pick Kayn in high elo he is squishy and easy to counter if he was solo He needs some buffs in S.A so he can be played in high elo same to base K

RJ011 votes

If people don't read it then thats their problem i just wanted to start a topic on my ideas of making S.A more viable, i made a table of contents so they could skip to whatever part but it would be nice to read it all to grasp the idea. Also did you read everything? And are you asking me a question? because i couldn't fully understand what you were asking.

Laceration2 votes

put a TDLR

Caretaker Jack1 votes

*reads 3 sentences at 5am

Hmm, i'm no longer curious

RJ011 votes

This is my first time ever posting on forums so I don't know how to make a topic "readable". So instead of everyone constantly saying to much to read your not even telling me how i can improve the quality. Whats the point of coming to a forum about ideas if your not willing to read? I put a lot of thought into this why can't i express it in words? Like what did you come here for because the topic was interesting or just to tell me that you were too lazy to read? You could have even skipped to the idea part if you fully read the table of contents, that's what its for.

Caretaker Jack1 votes

{quoted}

This is my first time ever posting on forums so I don't know how to make a topic "readable". So instead of everyone constantly saying to much to read your not even telling me how i can improve the quality. Whats the point of coming to a forum about ideas if your not willing to read? I put a lot of thought into this why can't i express it in words? Like what did you come here for because the topic was interesting or just to tell me that you were too lazy to read? You could have even skipped to the idea part if you fully read the table of contents, that's what its for.

Telling you its too long already tells you the problem and solution. Even if nobody said anything, people would skim through a paragraph and give you a bunch of half assed responses. Unless you're saying something super interesting or powerful, that's pretty much what will happen every time.

RJ011 votes

No it doesn't your not specifically saying what's not necessary in the passage. Just because its "too long" doesn't you shouldn't automatically put down an idea. So far everything has been negative instead of constantly venting on the length why don't u tell me what you found interesting or cool. I wanted to have a open discussion for the topic at hand. Wasn't expecting to argue about the length of a idea come on now.

Quiet Dude1 votes

I didnt read this rambling rant but tbh I think blukayn is fine.

Most sadkayn mains need to understand kayn cant force the same form for every team comp. rhaast is meant for certain team comps and sadboi is meant for others.

RJ011 votes

Im guessing that you are addressing me saying kayn should be able to transform into whatever he wants and the orbs should just be for either form.Your not looking at it for what I really mean by it.

Like i said to the comment before Ima just quote it "Lets say for example mid and bot lane enemy teams are playing super passive ranged champions and there is no opportunity to get a hit off to get your orbs, top lane has a bruiser that is over extended your obviously gonna keep ganking top lane because how easy it is and it can eventually lead to you snowballing for the rest of the game because the rest of the team is majority ranged champions."

Im not saying anyone should force a blue or red kayn, im saying that it would be a lot more logical to be able to choose whichever form you need or want because it would be a lot more convenient then waiting 5 whole minutes that could be used getting kills or winning team fights with a form. And even then why should it matter which ever one the player wants to pick its the champion they chose so they can play the game however they want even if it means getting flammed by their team mates.

Vyntrius1 votes

Shadow assassin is completely fine as is. It's true that shadow assassin is viable in less situations than Rhaast, but it's okay if there isn't a complete parity between the forms. Shadow assassin still has its niche and a role to fill, it isn't made completely obsolete by Rhaast. It's also true that Kayn lacks escape after he commits to a fight, but it's fine if that's his weakness as long as power is budgeted elsewhere. Blue Kayn makes up for it by having great map mobility that is only rivaled by Quinn. Rengar and Nocturne are also examples of successful assassins that don't have reliable escapes.

I don't know why you are proposing completely different abilities for shadow assassin when Kayn's entire theme is about having 2 forms with the same abilities, just different effects. Why do you want to destroy Kayn's identity by making all orbs the same and getting rid of his iconic ultimate? You don't seem to understand how important the ult is to shadow assassin. Shadow assassin is very reliant on his passive/abilities being up for damage, so how is shadow assassin supposed to compete in extended skirmishes without the the untargetability to wait for cooldowns as well as the passive reset? It's a great chasing tool, and its damage is better than you're making it out to be.

Lastly, you said Kayn didn't take much advice from Zed? Literally the entirety of the shadow assassin's kit is related to shadow magic except for his q, which is just him normally using his weapon(no different from Zed's shurkens). Kayn has his own style but it's very clear who he learned from.

RJ011 votes

Ok i respect your view but my post was in no way supposed to destroy kayn's identity at all. The post is called a possible "revamp" to shadow assassin kayn so revamp obviously means im trying to change something about him in-game not necessarily change what his character is lore wise(That could be a misunderstanding on my part but that's what i think you mean by "destroy identity"). Also I should change my second point in my table of contents because I didn't mean for it to be like shadow assassin's trash because he's not, my focus is really just to change how different and distinct he is from rhaast and his normal form. Me proposing new abilities is to make shadow assassin more unique. And actually im not destroying kayns identity more or less im actually bringing it to the for front for what it could be. Yes kayn can choose between two forms that have the same abilities with "different effects",all that does is make the character more linear than anything if all your changing is the properties of a certain ability for each form.I want more thought put into making the two forms have more in-depth characteristics. Saying that he didn't take much advice from zed was more on the exaggerated side of course, but his character reflects him being a zed pupil for sure. Kayn does have his own style but its very clear what the intentions where when creating him because he has the same moves spread across all three forms.

Shadow assassin does do his job as a assassin for the most part and is incredibly dangerous when fed. I just wanted to think more about his abilities and why they should be more "Shadow assassin" like not just some re-textures written in different code. Shadow assassin isn't built to compete in extended skirmishes which is why he has to land his abilities in order to quickly finish some one off(Which is why he is a assassin). Basically his ult is being used to become untargetable as thats the only way he even survives at all in teamfights, which can also back fire if the opponent just rushes under tower or to their team which gets you killed . His main weakness is his squishyness, im not taking that from him. He needs to have a weakness for sure its not like im making him god tier by saying he should be able to escape because he can still die in an instant to a cc chain.

Lastly just wanted to go back to the whole "destroying his identity" and his "iconic ult". My title says and again I quote " A possible revamp to Shadow Assassin Kayn" which I hope you know what revamp means. My idea was to change a good portion of what SA is in-game of course.Im not trying to keep him with the same ult as before which is why im giving ideas to compensate on him getting a ulti change. Like having the new q i said which would give him a ranged ability and his 1st idea for a ulti which is another ranged ability except it is a execute. I even changed his his e ability so after he gets a kill it can either be refreshed or get a 50% cool-down reduction to give him time to reload all his abilities to either go back in or escape and it actually would have uses on the ground. Also allowing him to be able to transform into whatever form the player wants is more of a quality if life change then anything. Just imagine you could actually gank a lane without having to worry about getting to many of a certain orb and having to wait a decent amount of time for a form that is actually needed in a match. Lets say for example mid and bot lane enemy teams are playing super passive ranged champions and there is no opportunity to get a hit off to get your orbs, top lane has a bruiser that is over extended your obviously gonna keep ganking top lane because how easy it is and it can eventually lead to you snowballing for the rest of the game because the rest of the team is majority ranged champions.

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