Can we lower Illaoi's numbers a little?

Xx420n0sc0p3sxX·Nov 29, 2015·62 votes·5,138 views

Anyone else feel her tentacles deal a little too much damage? I can dodge them easily, don't get me wrong, but when she ults and there are 3+ that I have to dodge, and they swing even faster, it becomes very difficult. Her tentacles deal a crazy amount of damage if you get hit by them, and in a chaotic fight you WILL. And test of spirit, while a cool ability, outside of lane often gives little options for me to fight back, almost always losing a large portion of my hp and becoming a vessel. Though it is short range and a skillshot, to be fair.

159 Comments

SirNewton12Nov 29, 20159 votes

Her E is the real problem and the fact that the tentacles can spawn in your own base and even on your own towers and the towers WON'T target them. Her E just feels like it has no real counterplay besides trying to kill Illaoi which is really hard when she can damage you and your spirit at the same time :/

SettDownShutUpNov 29, 20153 votes

The E has a huge learning curve. Your goal is to lose it ASAP, to do that make sure to strafe spawn points as they appear, then attack that point AFTER it's done its slam, 3 times and bam you're out. Now DON'T get grabbed a second time, and don't let yourself be baited into attacking a tentacle that she will immediate E you and replace with her passive.

shalexadeNov 29, 201512 votes

Did you know, unless she's ranking it, when she's attacking your clone, she's doing 25% damage.

So HIT HER BACK!! :D

#Counterplay

Puppet33rNov 30, 20151 votes

So when you go in to fight her her she hits you and your clone with multiple tentacles for 125% of their dmg. So if you are melee you are basically screwed. Either you die or spend the next minute or two hunting for tentacles in your base/between turrets.

SinlaireNov 30, 20151 votes

I became a vessel in a huge team fight once and didnt notice. i tabbed to check everyone scores next to nexus for some reason and a tentacle spawned on my nexus turret and killed me.

I mean seriously. wtf on that BS.

I am PewdiePieNov 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I became a vessel in a huge team fight once and didnt notice. i tabbed to check everyone scores next to nexus for some reason and a tentacle spawned on my nexus turret and killed me.

I mean seriously. wtf on that BS.

How did you not notice your entire screen turning bright blue?

SinlaireNov 30, 20151 votes

health was at like 5%. i set her on auto run to the nexus and was busy watching the rest of the team fight play out and checking tab.

I noticed the color seemed a little off from normal but it wasn't at the top of my list on "most pressing concerns" when making sure i got out alive and seeing if my team was winning the trade. once i finally looked back after realized i stopped short of fountain i was just in time to see a tentacle rearing back and delivering the death blow.

After that i always made sure to watch for blue screen of death, but sometimes you cant just always see everything in game. Also it was only my second game against Illaoi and i had never laned against her in either. so it wasnt a familiar phenomena.

I am PewdiePieNov 30, 20154 votes

{quoted}

health was at like 5%. i set her on auto run to the nexus and was busy watching the rest of the team fight play out and checking tab.

I noticed the color seemed a little off from normal but it wasn't at the top of my list on "most pressing concerns" when making sure i got out alive and seeing if my team was winning the trade. once i finally looked back after realized i stopped short of fountain i was just in time to see a tentacle rearing back and delivering the death blow.

After that i always made sure to watch for blue screen of death, but sometimes you cant just always see everything in game. Also it was only my second game against and i had never laned against her in either. so it wasnt a familiar phenomena.

Well then it's not really bullshit if you didn't know what the warning sign meant and what the champion does. That's just called learning.

SinlaireNov 30, 20151 votes

i can live with learning. like i said. i never let it happen again. the issue is that you cant be safe anywhere on the map for any reason other than in your fountain if she lands the skill on you.

I've seen a good handful of games where people got killed or werent able to back because they couldnt get away from tentacles spawning from her E and passive.i had a game where i was running away with maybe 2% health and got killed by a tentacle Illaoi had passively spawned a while back that i accidentaly passed along the way even with her an entire lane away. I simply stumbled in range and died. another game where the enemy Illaoi did nothing but split push top and make it hell clearing wave with all of her tentacles just living in our base while she was off somewhere backing or helping out another lane after leaving behind her infestation.

She would run in. Ult everyone pushing her out, E someone, and leave. Then we would both have to clear wave and tentacles while she just went on her merry way. My issue isn't her abilities. it's that her tentacles can attack regardless of their distance to the champ and they can attack you literally anywhere short of the steps of fountain itself.

Atleast Heimer's turrets shut down when he's not there. Illaoi just plays like mundo. shove and go where she wants and make everyone else clean up after. It's terribly frustrating to play against, even if there's counterplay.

I am PewdiePieNov 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

i can live with learning. like i said. i never let it happen again. the issue is that you cant be safe anywhere on the map for any reason other than in your fountain if she lands the skill on you.

I've seen a good handful of games where people got killed or werent able to back because they couldnt get away from tentacles spawning from her E and passive.i had a game where i was running away with maybe 2% health and got killed by a tentacle Illaoi had passively spawned a while back that i accidentaly passed along the way even with her an entire lane away. I simply stumbled in range and died. another game where the enemy did nothing but split push top and make it hell clearing wave with all of her tentacles just living in our base while she was off somewhere backing or helping out another lane after leaving behind her infestation.

She would run in. Ult everyone pushing her out, E someone, and leave. Then we would both have to clear wave and tentacles while she just went on her merry way. My issue isn't her abilities. it's that her tentacles can attack regardless of their distance to the champ and they can attack you literally anywhere short of the steps of fountain itself.

Atleast Heimer's turrets shut down when he's not there. Illaoi just plays like mundo. shove and go where she wants and make everyone else clean up after. It's terribly frustrating to play against, even if there's counterplay.

Watched her tentacles attack in a video, tried to time it best I can. It takes somewhere between 1.5 - 2 seconds from wind up until the tentacle attacks, and they show a range indicator for everyone. And remember, they can only attack once. Ones that are just sitting there are not going to attack you unless you're a vessel or she's used W or E on you.

Read up on her abilities and I promise you it won't look as broken as you may think.

RedagaNov 30, 20155 votes

she is a bruiser AD, not everyone plays tank. getting trapped by her E unless she is already about to die. if you are any class other than ADC or Tank, staying to fight is just suicide.

the best way to balance it is increase the damage from soul to champion, but remove the "vessel" if you get away.

as far as I know, this is the only skill that you get punished for escaping the champion range/ AoE

Imagine if Xerath R were that people that get out of his Range gets auto nuked?

JefftiffyNov 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Did you know, unless she's ranking it, when she's attacking your clone, she's doing 25% damage.

So HIT HER BACK!! :D

#Counterplay

#Misconceptions If she hits you and your clone she does 125% damage and if you are melee guess what? It's near impossible to be close to her and not take the 125% damage.

shalexadeDec 1, 20151 votes

You mean, you stand in between her and your clone so that her Q hits both of you?

It's not impossible to step slightly to the left, and you're doing a dis-service to your argument to claim that it is.

If she ults and gets multiple tentacles around her, then yes- you're in for a hard time and probably should disengage- you done goofed and got pushed out of lane for it.

GubaguyNov 30, 20153 votes

step 1: take the E step 2: walk or run out of the range taking minimal damage step 3: wait for tentacle to spawn then either kill it, or recall after it attacks step 4: kill tentacles inside the safety of your base then head back to lane, where if illaoi has pushed hard she will have no mana, and if she hasnt you have no real loss.

RedagaNov 30, 20155 votes

except she now has 30 free seconds to farm/ push lane. it gets longer if you went to base.

on high elos, every minion kill counts

the damage from her E is not the problem, the Vessel status, even when you ran out is the OP part

GubaguyNov 30, 20152 votes

again, you can also sit in lane and move slightly to the left becuase the tantacles have the most telegraphed attack in the game, you woudl actualyl have to be braindead to NOT be able to dodge them. so you move to the side, kill one, repeat, 15 free gold without missing any cs.

RedagaNov 30, 20155 votes

if you are able to stay in lane, where there are likely already tentacles from Illaoi Passive, dodge em, then dodge the ones that spawn, kill those, (repeat 3 times) while at the same time you dodge Illaoi herself, and still get your quota of minions, and no damage, you are my new god

in a realistic scenario the chances that you can stay in line once you become vessel are low

add that to the fact that even on lvl 1, her E CoolDown time is 20 seconds, so by the time you get out of vessel status, she can use it again.

ThryaleNov 30, 20152 votes

no, her E is fine imo.

Personally, it's her Q that needs a slight nerf. I'd say take away about 20-30 dmg across all ranks and maybe lower the ad ratio by .1 or something small like that. Honestly, she's not that far off from being balanced as is.

KDragonLNov 30, 20151 votes

yeah her Q is the worst, Her E is easy to deal with outside of team fights

RedagaNov 30, 20154 votes

the problem with the E is that you waste lot of time removing vessel status. something that is a granted once her E lands on you.

her is is basically a 15-30 seconds stuns. cause that is the time it takes to hunt down tentacles. while you stay on the move not to be hit by the spawned ones

ThryaleNov 30, 20153 votes

that's not an appropriate comparison. Stuns leave you completely exposed to any and all actions taken by the enemy. While simply being forced out of a fight/lane just means opportunity loss, not direct threat to danger.

Is her E powerful? yes.

Is her E more powerful than a blitz hook? heck no.

If anything I'd say all her E needs is a nerf to the cd at all ranks. (maybe increase it by 4 secs or something like that)

RedagaNov 30, 20153 votes

again, my concern is not the damage it does itself (it does not, even on lvl 5, and if Illaoi has 200 AD, the damage transferred will be only 61% )

the problem is the vessel status. there is no efficient way to prevent it.

If you run away, you are a vessel, this is 100% now ensure you have to retreat for at least 20-30 seconds till you hunt down 3 tentacles .

If you try to fight her, even long range mages like Xerath. will only reduce the Spirits E time by 3 seconds (seconds 5 counting 2 seconds stuns at optimal condition fro Xerath E) and she still have 5 seconds left (the time is 10 seconds after sucking the spirits). if you get any closer, she can just ignore the spirit and straight up attack you.

KDragonLNov 30, 20151 votes

it is really easy to control where her tentacles spawn when you are a vessel and you can easily be out of the range by the time they attack.

RedagaNov 30, 20153 votes

its easy, you even see where the tentacle will spawn, but is high likely that for the next 20-30 seconds you will be at your turret or further. that is 30 seconds you cant farm which in early game, it hurts a lot.

im not saying that you cant become a vessel, going vessel if the spirit is killed, is fine, but getting vessel instantly if you run away, is way to much punishment (in wasted time running around) from a E that is 20 seconds cooldown and like 40 mana cost.

ThryaleDec 1, 20151 votes

aye, if anything, I'd say the frequency in which Illaoi can cast her E is the real problem, not the actually effects of it.

Upping the mana cost and increasing the cd should be more than enough to put that skill in line.

ThryaleNov 30, 20152 votes

but yer overlooking the fact that it's a debuff that is applied for not dodging a skill shot. That's like saying you shouldn't be cc'd just because you failed to dodge the blitz hook and that you should only take damage.

ZLbSwAR23INov 30, 20153 votes

A thirty second debuff for not dodging a single skillshot?

ThryaleNov 30, 20152 votes

it's better than a death timer and giving the enemy 300 gold. and that's achieved by many skill shots.

Nid spear for huge nuking dmg blitz hook for insta-death by team brutality morg binding for more team brutality lux q, see above elise w, again, see above

remember when getting hit by a leblanc snare meant insta death since you can't even flash outside the tether range? good thing riot fixed those janky hit boxes on it... oh wait, lb's snares are still janky and usually mean insta death from the rest of her kit.

you guys need to understand that the counterplay to her E is to dodge it. Not dodging her E means getting debuffed. But because the debuff is so powerful, riot is giving you a second chance at it if you do suck and can't dodge the skill. So stop whining and get better at the game.

ZLbSwAR23IDec 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So stop whining and get better at the game.

I was actually considering your point until you went negative and toxic and mentioned this.

Opinion discarded.

Block HopperNov 30, 20152 votes

item 3140 problem solved

KDragonLNov 30, 20152 votes

rushing quick silver as first item would completely gimp anyone build.

RedagaNov 30, 20152 votes

rush quick silver rush an MR item vs an AD champ

Professor WardDec 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

that's not an appropriate comparison. Stuns leave you completely exposed to any and all actions taken by the enemy. While simply being forced out of a fight/lane just means opportunity loss, not direct threat to danger.

Is her E powerful? yes.

Is her E more powerful than a blitz hook? heck no.

If anything I'd say all her E needs is a nerf to the cd at all ranks. (maybe increase it by 4 secs or something like that)

her e is much safer in many situations than a blitz hook.\

MetalGearTeemuNov 30, 20151 votes

I'd be happy with the tentacles actually reflecting their hurtboxes. i get BS clipped by tentacles more then once and with how strong her kit is in lane every time she gets that self heal is a disaster.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

ThryaleDec 1, 20151 votes

I think that's due to the tip of the tentacle being triangular and the hitbox still being retangular. it makes it feel bad to be "clipped" by empty space, so yeah, I know what ya mean.

bobsenbobNov 29, 20158 votes

I think her e is really just a problem because if you get hit by it, if you stay in range, you take considerable damage from your spirit but if you leave the raneg, you become a vessel so either way you get punished

LlaniteNov 30, 20152 votes

To be fair, you did get hit by the skill shot, there is no reason you should walk without any punishment.

You simply have a choice to run and avoid the dmg, at the expense of becoming her vessel.

RedagaNov 30, 20151 votes

you got 3 options

option 1) run, you are now a vessel, enjoy wasting 30 seconds running while dodging new spawned tentacles, then destroy it, then you can go back to you line, after 30 seconds wasted of farming.

Option 2) stay till your spirit is killed, you now took damage, Illaoi healed and now you are a vessel, then apply 1)

Option 3) attack Illaoi, this will reduce the time of her E, but you will still get damage and is highly likely you will get in range of her attacks and her tentacles. keep in mind she is a heavy hitter, so unless you are a tank to take the damage and dont care, or an ADC to out DPS her. you will suffer

LlaniteDec 1, 20151 votes

None of this happens if you didnt get hit. If you do get hit, you have to take punishment of some forms.

Shield VillainNov 30, 20153 votes

When you consider it's essentially just about pulling move, but it won't do as much damage to you, it doesn't feel that bad anymore. Not like we're talking about an AP blitz crack pull or something.

RedagaNov 30, 20151 votes

the problem is not the damage (at all) but removing the vessel status is a 100% chore, at best it will take 20 to 30 seconds to remove it. if you are early lane, that time is time you can not farm/ she can push your lane tower.

and if you decide to stay close, is highly possible you will get hit by the already there tentacles or the ones you spawn. not counting tentacles spawn passive abilities, like item 3071

Shield VillainNov 30, 20151 votes

It's really easy not to be marked with that to begin with, though. The hit box on it, from my experience, can be a little wonky and easy to miss. It doesn't auto snap onto champions. So just hiding behind a minion and learning to position is a good strategy. Also, when she does pull you, and if you're full health or even just have more health than her, you can go in on her sorry ass. Killing that thing is a real pain in the ass. You're not killing it with just autos early game, even late game. So she's forced to use mana against it to deal only 24% damage to you, and possibly get that vessel status on you.

There really is a lot of counter play to it.

RedagaDec 1, 20151 votes

"you can go in on her sorry ass."

she is a bruiser her whole idea is to hit hard. mages might have a good chance to poke her from afar, but you will still get punished. and if you get close to her. you cant just easily go on a DPS war vs her. as her tentacles, from Q . passive and whatever might hit from her W heals her

SteelflameDec 1, 20151 votes

If she blows her CDs on the vessel, she is weak as hell in a strait up fight that you start the moment you see her waste her skills on it. If she doesn't, she won't really hurt it unless she landed herself a near perfect E in the range of two tentacles. Even then she has to blow her W, which is a major damage contributer, to do so.

Also, armor is doublely effective against her E damage, because it effects how much damage she does to the spirit, and how much damage the spirit is linking to you. And she is 100% physical damage. This is why she can have decent issues with armor stackers.

TYoung11Nov 29, 20152 votes

My only problem with her is how fast her E executes. There is almost no animation to indicate she is going to use it leaving no time to dodge it. A blitz hook is easier to dodge.

ValentenNov 30, 20158 votes

I mean she stands still and shoves her weapon out in front of her THEN the tentacle comes out. How much more telegraph do you want? Plus the initial grab does no dmg and doesnt cc you really. The only way it does dmg to you is if she is maxing it and building ad even then its only 8% per 100 ad

NeomeaNov 30, 20152 votes

Not to mention it's really narrow and gets minion blocked

ZLbSwAR23INov 30, 20151 votes

Something like Thresh's Q would be better, It needs a channel time.

ValentenNov 30, 20151 votes

OK give it a channel time but then put some base dmg on it and make it longer and travel faster. Thats how putting a channel time would work

ZLbSwAR23IDec 1, 20151 votes

Damage, perhaps. Anything else would be overkill. It's roughly the same speed as Thresh's Q. Don't forget that Illaoi is supposed to get up in people's faces, her E needs to remain this length.