The amount by which the support role impacts the game should be a more contentious issue.

da Buttwig clan··3 votes·1,648 views

So I thinking to myself why Thresh, and other supports manage to have such a high impact despite under performing in terms of good game criteria besides assists (basically, the variables Riot uses to calculate rankings for roles). I know that supports have become popular here after sightstone was implemented, but I've seen a lot of people make a glaring but easily avoidable mistake when discussing this role. You see, when you make a statement like "support is just as hard as the other roles" what you mean to say is "the lack of tools equipped to the the low-effort medium-reward playstyle conceived by Riot Games becomes more difficult relative to all other roles." What you're playing is not actually a champion as they were meant to be played, but the closest approximation that was conceived and developed by several people employed at Riot Games. Oddly enough, every other role in the game does not have to justify their contributions to the team, as they are self-evident. They get to accrue gold and make meaningful contributions based in decision making. A support's contribution to the team is supplying passable vision that was most likely funded by catered itemization that gives them literally free gold and being a bodyguard for the carries. The role that you're playing is a bandaid expression of the MOBA genre, in fact, it's hard to call it an expression of the people who actually created the MOBA genre. They are hired by game companies to conceive and develop playstyles for many different players. I'm not saying that supports are holistically less skillful, but the skill floor and skill cap for this position are inherently lower due to the cards the support role are dealt. Take DotA 2 for example: support heroes there often find themselves a good 5 levels below the rest of the team. Why? Well, the answer is another question: why GIVE the support any experience in the first place? And that still remains unanswered at a fundamental level of game theory, so it must not only be answered but implemented via game design. The only way to stop min maxing of the allocation of resources is to shoehorn character roles such that they are disproportionately tuned in order for a more consistent axis of decision making, opportunity, and function. This way, they can appeal to those who have difficulty with other subtleties in the other positions on the map. It's all marketing. And don't be fooled, it's been marketed towards you as well. The problem arises when champions like Annie, Alistar, Sona, Nautilus, Leona, Thresh, and Janna become overtuned to the point that it removes decision making from the process, and warps the gradient of opportunity and function. You are not an altruistic team player, any more so than the jungler for ganking, the top laner for taking teleport to help out, the mid lane for ganking, or the ADC for pressuring objectives at the risk of their lives. You are a cog in a five man team, and League of Legends is holding your hand the entire way. I'm not saying it's not okay to enjoy this role, or that it's objectively bad, I just think you ought to be honest about what you're playing, and it's not as demanding a role as all the others.

9 Comments

Apollocliptic6 votes

I was gonna ignore this post but I couldn't help myself. You're basically saying that supports have it easy because they have less gold? The REAL truth of the matter, is that they have it HARDER because of less gold. Their decision making is VITAL as they can't win on pure stats.

I don't understand why you think the gold you have has even the slightest (smallest or any significant) affect on decision making ability or importance? If you think Supports only purpose is to provide vision, you are seriously not playing this game right. Riot has specifically implemented change after change (especially with trinkets) to encourage other lanes to ward

You say that support is not as hard because you don't... I can't think of another way of phrasing it, have more gold or CS as much. That it is not as team orientated as a jungler or a top lane? Well that is horribly flawed.

Top lanes with TP use it to get back to lane faster as often as to assist their allies, just so they can farm more. Lanes that focus on "Carrying" are the most selfish. Not saying they all are, but they can, (especially in low elo) play entire games while disregarding the rest of their team and even win this way. Top mid and adc can all have these mentalities VERY often. Jungle not as much, and is often considered the second most team orientated role. Supports often RELY on other team mates to act, either to follow them or take advantage of their abilities. Support HAVE to work as a team, and are the only position that HAS to work as a team, Not understanding that this argument ALONE makes them more team orientated, makes it pointless to discuss the MANY other factors involved.

Every lane has pros and cons in terms of mechanics. Mid laners have to worry more about ganks, top laners have to focus more on combat or farming (without getting assistance from junglers as much) while bot lane has to worry about both, with high chance of ganks, the need to farm, and the need to poke/trade effectively. Junglers need good timing, and be able to predict the flow of the game. Supports need to have higher special awareness, in the sense that they need to be more aware of every other players skills, playstyles, strengths and weaknesses. I'm not weighing in on which is most difficult, but your logic that Supports have less gold (the worst tool for identifying game impact) therefore have an easier time is tremendously flawed. If you're gonna make this point, at least have an argument that makes sense.

On a side note: Many argue about supports impact because kills, farm and gold are the only stats that most players look at, therefore when an idiot mid laner is complaining that the support has 0:5 ignoring the 20 assists, it's their inability to understand the other elements of the game. And no offence, but this sounds like you right now. You're using the weakest form of analysis to make your point, as a support can run 0:2:0 and still be impactful (anyone can based on circumstances) even an adc with 0 kills has an impact by manipulating the enemy teams focus and positioning. I've had games where the adc is dead at the start of every team fight, which ends with us either grabbing an ace or a swift clean up.

I'll end on this note. The ONLY role with decision making as impactful as the support is the jungle. Supports not only have to decide when and where to ward, who and how to cc, good and bad times to engage or retreat, but also who to protect. And trust me, it's not always the adc. MANY other lanes have these issues, many champs in these lanes do not, but EVERY support has to take into account ALL of these factors. Even in CS'ing a good supports understands how to cs, and effectively boxes out the enemy adc from doing so, which is what I'm practicing more right now. And adc's are important BECAUSE of how easy they can push a lane, so saying that "putting themselves at risk by pushing" is a difficult part of the role... I just don't understand that. Bruisers, mages, even supports put themselves at risk by pushing, adc's can generally do it without ever being in attack range of the enemy (especially if in a group fight or siege)

Man I can go on all day, but I actually have work to do, I'm out!

Luxana Crowngard2 votes

{quoted}

I was gonna ignore this post but I couldn't help myself. You're basically saying that supports have it easy because they have less gold? The REAL truth of the matter, is that they have it HARDER because of less gold. Their decision making is VITAL as they can't win on pure stats.

I don't understand why you think the gold you have has even the slightest (smallest or any significant) affect on decision making ability or importance? If you think Supports only purpose is to provide vision, you are seriously not playing this game right. Riot has specifically implemented change after change (especially with trinkets) to encourage other lanes to ward

You say that support is not as hard because you don't... I can't think of another way of phrasing it, have more gold or CS as much. That it is not as team orientated as a jungler or a top lane? Well that is horribly flawed.

Top lanes with TP use it to get back to lane faster as often as to assist their allies, just so they can farm more. Lanes that focus on "Carrying" are the most selfish. Not saying they all are, but they can, (especially in low elo) play entire games while disregarding the rest of their team and even win this way. Top mid and adc can all have these mentalities VERY often. Jungle not as much, and is often considered the second most team orientated role. Supports often RELY on other team mates to act, either to follow them or take advantage of their abilities. Support HAVE to work as a team, and are the only position that HAS to work as a team, Not understanding that this argument ALONE makes them more team orientated, makes it pointless to discuss the MANY other factors involved.

Every lane has pros and cons in terms of mechanics. Mid laners have to worry more about ganks, top laners have to focus more on combat or farming (without getting assistance from junglers as much) while bot lane has to worry about both, with high chance of ganks, the need to farm, and the need to poke/trade effectively. Junglers need good timing, and be able to predict the flow of the game. Supports need to have higher special awareness, in the sense that they need to be more aware of every other players skills, playstyles, strengths and weaknesses. I'm not weighing in on which is most difficult, but your logic that Supports have less gold (the worst tool for identifying game impact) therefore have an easier time is tremendously flawed. If you're gonna make this point, at least have an argument that makes sense.

On a side note: Many argue about supports impact because kills, farm and gold are the only stats that most players look at, therefore when an idiot mid laner is complaining that the support has 0:5 ignoring the 20 assists, it's their inability to understand the other elements of the game. And no offence, but this sounds like you right now. You're using the weakest form of analysis to make your point, as a support can run 0:2:0 and still be impactful (anyone can based on circumstances) even an adc with 0 kills has an impact by manipulating the enemy teams focus and positioning. I've had games where the adc is dead at the start of every team fight, which ends with us either grabbing an ace or a swift clean up.

I'll end on this note. The ONLY role with decision making as impactful as the support is the jungle. Supports not only have to decide when and where to ward, who and how to cc, good and bad times to engage or retreat, but also who to protect. And trust me, it's not always the adc. MANY other lanes have these issues, many champs in these lanes do not, but EVERY support has to take into account ALL of these factors. Even in CS'ing a good supports understands how to cs, and effectively boxes out the enemy adc from doing so, which is what I'm practicing more right now. And adc's are important BECAUSE of how easy they can push a lane, so saying that "putting themselves at risk by pushing" is a difficult part of the role... I just don't understand that. Bruisers, mages, even supports put themselves at risk by pushing, adc's can generally do it without ever being in attack range of the enemy (especially if in a group fight or siege)

Man I can go on all day, but I actually have work to do, I'm out!

Someone who finally understands http://replygif.net/i/90.gif

canpan141 votes

I love you fellow support.

Stellafreyja3 votes

tl;dr wall of text

da Buttwig clan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace of Eden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1deJ02Xf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-17T08:29:09.184+0000)

tl;dr wall of text

tl;dr Riot's way of rectifying the min maxing of the allocation of team resources is giving supports a baseline of power that is irreducible by other roles

Jamaree1 votes

Fine, I can't call you bronze apparently.

TL DR, stay in a level far below the average because you lack the sufficient skill and know how to understand the game.

Better Riot?

buster kiton1 votes

The point of a support is to make up for lack of gold/experience that one member of the team has to have (3 lanes and jungle supply 4 people). That's why, if you look at their kits, they are champions that usually don't scale well with items but are useful at doing their job, usually by peeling for a carry. Support is not any easier than other roles, your argument seems to include that somehow supports can't "snowball" their lead as hard as others. Wel,, good supports know how to roam with their lead and snowball other lanes, filling a second, more gank-heavy jungling role that can be a game-winning factor. Also, vision control is extremely important and can win games.

Baby Ghoul1 votes

Apollocliptic counters your argument very well, and I agree with all their points. I think it should actually be pinned because I've been seeing so much hate towards supports lately, and a lot of them are so shallow. It's a shame people don't understand those things, and overlook them so easily.

It's a role that requires synergy, and that's not always something that comes easy when you solo queue. Many people confuse it for riding someone's coat tails to victory, but that's foolish. You're not playing correctly if all you do is poke in the background and place wards in any old bush. The same goes for just choosing a random support. I think that's a big reason why in team builder, you wait forever finding a support. It doesn't cater to that unique requirement of the role.

You take on so much responsibility to benefit your team and work with them to better complete objectives. Damage and kills do not mean you're going to win the game. People get confused about that because you can carry teammates this way. It's not unheard of, especially in bronze/silver. However in the future there are going to be many games where damage/kills are not enough. You aren't always going to get fed, you may even fall behind, and you may end up in a bad situation where you need saving. That's when you're going to be thankful for your alert support. At least I hope. Games should not be, "I didn't get fed, and I don't have a lot of gold so we lose." So many are attracted to the idea of carrying their team alone though. Ironic considering the type of game this is.

When the team is down, support is the role that is most likely to get blamed for the team losing. Which is sad because it discourages people from playing it because it's not easy to explain how valuable you are in team chat, especially in lower leagues. You may be doing the most as support, but it's a role that has limitations as well, and assisting teammates that fell behind can be tricky, but part of your job. You have to find other ways to work around that. You cannot just spam abilities and hope you can overpower the enemy yourself. That isn't what anyone should want in a game about being on a team though. It's not a satisfying victory, and it's not good game play to have that be your alternative because the enemy could just as easily work around you if they thought about it.

People who think they're going to have an easy time as support are the most common supports you're going to get because of this perception. They buy a few wards, and think that's all they have to do in the game. They end up as dead weight because there's this perception that it's an sleepy role, and they're only there for the ADC. The support that makes the right calls is going to create a better environment and more opportunities for their team, and it's not always just for their ADC.

The lack of respect, and the blame they get are huge reasons why support gets chosen last a lot where I am.

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