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The Riot Games Balance team does not care about you or your feedback.

Papa Stalin··173 votes·24,282 views

League of Legends has around 100 million active monthly players, and the Riot Games Balancing team doesn't care for a single one of them. They don't care for their enjoyment or their complaints. They just care about Pro Play. They will buff any champions as long as it provokes interest in Pro Play.

"And he picked Riven!" Says the caster excitedly as the first game of worlds rolls out, "We haven't seen her picked for years now! This game will be fun!" He states... Well, of course she will be picked in worlds when you keep buffing her. Meanwhile, she was dominating patch 9.16-9.18 With a win rate of 54%+ And a pick rate of 10%+ (Right now both have decreased though).

I still remember the words from a Riot Games employee "We have pulled back the nerfs on aatrox, so that we can find a change that helps decrease his Pro Play presence but still keep him healthy and fun for soloq". These were the words said between patch 9.17 and 9.18. Before patch 9.18 rolled out Riot Games responded with "So far we couldn't create a balance good for both soloq and pro play (excuse me?) So we are nerfing him for now." And nerf him they did, quite hard in fact. Aatrox is currently sitting in 43.25% win rate and a 5.4% pick rate, he is ranked the toplaner with the least win rate, followed by irelia with a 45% win rate, that is a difference of 1.75%. Well, I'm gullible and naive, so i will remember your promise, nerf him now, but change him so he is healthier later, even though I know that is one of your many lies.

I used Riven and Aatrox as examples here, but there are many others. Fiora and Sylas, Evelynn and Yuumi. One little fun fact is that Riven, fiora and Evelynn are sitting around 49-50% win rate, while aatrox, sylas and yuumi are at around 43-45% win rate.

Since you want to make Worlds so "fun" and "unique" and an "experience different from the rest" then push out the changes, but at least revert them after. Or have the decency to just state "Yes, we do care about Pro play a lot more than soloq"

126 Comments

Naalith39 votes

Ahh your last paragraph, you misunderstand the way of the rito gam. They usually won't just revert the dumbass buffs and nerfs they did exclusively for pro play, they instead say "well preseason is pretty soon so like the balance will change lol just deal with it."

Reminds me of season 7. "We can't nerf Ardent Censor because Worlds is like 6 months away. Okay it's after Worlds and we finally nerfed it, but all this other imbalance as a result of the meta for the whole year changing? Well preseason is 2 to 3 months out so we can't change it."

Hong Kong Annie43 votes

And then during preseason it's "well it's preseason so somethings are bound to be unbalanced." Then it's "well the season just started so we don't want to shake the meta up to much." Then "well the mid season update is coming up so we won't do any big changes till then".

That just repeats over and over again. They keep putting out excuses for why the game is in such a bad balance spot but don't ever try to fix. It's even worse when players believe these excuses and use them to defend riot.

Ragnaveil5 votes

Or, because Riot holds franchising right now, they dont want to speak out because their job could be at stake. Lets be honest.

GinoSoldier2 votes

{quoted}

Ahh your last paragraph, you misunderstand the way of the rito gam. They usually won't just revert the dumbass buffs and nerfs they did exclusively for pro play, they instead say "well preseason is pretty soon so like the balance will change lol just deal with it."

Reminds me of season 7. "We can't nerf Ardent Censor because Worlds is like 6 months away. Okay it's after Worlds and we finally nerfed it, but all this other imbalance as a result of the meta for the whole year changing? Well preseason is 2 to 3 months out so we can't change it."

Censer was never the real problem. It had been relatively strong but fine until the marksman item cost reduction which let them spike about 15 minutes earlier, just in time for a Censer rush, which made it an insane double whammy early game. Supports wouldn't rush Censer early prior to that because the item itself wasn't enough to make Marksmen insane.

As a result Supports got one of their only really good items nerfed below cost-efficiency, while Riot could have easily just killed ADC's lifesteal options and solved a still ongoing problem with that.

Mihalikb2 votes

{quoted}

Censer was never the real problem. It had been relatively strong but fine until the marksman item cost reduction which let them spike about 15 minutes earlier, just in time for a Censer rush, which made it an insane double whammy early game. Supports wouldn't rush Censer early prior to that because the item itself wasn't enough to make Marksmen insane.

As a result Supports got one of their only really good items nerfed below cost-efficiency, while Riot could have easily just killed ADC's lifesteal options and solved a still ongoing problem with that.

Yes. But doing that would have made sense, and would have kept all those flashy double damage botlanes redundant.

Jamaree28 votes

To be fair, most balance complaints on here all boil down to this: "This thing beat me, it's OP and needs nerfs. No, I have never played the champion before why should I have to understand their kit? Yeah, their kit naturally counters my champion's kit. I also didn't itemize against them at all, but it doesn't matter, I'm the best player in the world so if anything beats me it couldn't be for any other reason besides it meaning that thing is OP."

NoobDefault4 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, most balance complaints on here all boil down to this: "This thing beat me, it's OP and needs nerfs. No, I have never played the champion before why should I have to understand their kit? Yeah, their kit naturally counters my champion's kit. I also didn't itemize against them at all, but it doesn't matter, I'm the best player in the world so if anything beats me it couldn't be for any other reason besides it meaning that thing is OP."

That's so far from the truth and you know it. Or you are deluded to believe a meme is real. Either or, your talking trash.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

That's so far from the truth and you know it. Or you are deluded to believe a meme is real. Either or, your talking trash.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/5i0qgtPB-vlads-pool-is-overloaded-right

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/IA4TJQmx-nerf-malphite-thanks

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1tqgeKWu-how-come-akali-with-impunity-can-stand-on-top-of-minios-and-spam-q-on-me

Or should I post the ones of the flip side of the circlejerk people asking for nerfs instead?

NoobDefault2 votes

{quoted}

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/5i0qgtPB-vlads-pool-is-overloaded-right

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/IA4TJQmx-nerf-malphite-thanks

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1tqgeKWu-how-come-akali-with-impunity-can-stand-on-top-of-minios-and-spam-q-on-me

Or should I post the ones of the flip side of the circlejerk people asking for nerfs instead?

Lol, you can't even cherry pick well. Try again, cause 2 of those threads you just linked ard actually valid concerns of a champions balance.

Not the whining meme you claim they are.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

Lol, you can't even cherry pick well. Try again, cause 2 of those threads you just linked ard actually valid concerns of a champions balance.

Not the whining meme you claim they are.

In what world just listing out a champion's ability a showcase of valid concerns, what?

NoobDefault2 votes

{quoted}

In what world just listing out a champion's ability a showcase of valid concerns, what?

Are you stupid or something?

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

Are you stupid or something?

That isn't how balance works, you can't just list out all the strengths of move, and ignore its con altogether or act like they don't have any. That is the point I'm making, so few people here ACTUALLY want balance. What most players of this game want IS the bad balance, BUT, they want it slanted in their favor.

NoobDefault2 votes

{quoted}

That isn't how balance works, you can't just list out all the strengths of move, and ignore its con altogether or act like they don't have any. That is the point I'm making, so few people here ACTUALLY want balance. What most players of this game want IS the bad balance, BUT, they want it slanted in their favor.

Are you really that cynical to believe that horse shit? Fucking moron.

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

Are you really that cynical to believe that horse shit? Fucking moron.

And you literally can't respond with anything but insults, but my point remains valid. If you have ever had a time where your champion was the strongest in the game, and you still played them and didn't ask for nerfs, you don't want balance. If you have ever asked for something you personally enjoy to not be nerfed and ignored every statistic otherwise, you don't want balance. If you have ever abused an item at its peak because it fit well on your champion and didn't ask for nerfs for it, you don't want balance.

Balance is getting everything in a state of evenness (even if that is impossible), and being ok with things being broken on one side because you like it, isn't balance.

Most post about people complaining are from people who lost to the thing, have never played the champion to learn about their weaknesses because most power of champions come far more from mastery then outright power, and utterly refuse to change the way the play, their item paths, or their core champions to realize that sometimes your champion loses to them.

NoobDefault1 votes

{quoted}

And you literally can't respond with anything but insults, but my point remains valid. If you have ever had a time where your champion was the strongest in the game, and you still played them and didn't ask for nerfs, you don't want balance. If you have ever asked for something you personally enjoy to not be nerfed and ignored every statistic otherwise, you don't want balance. If you have ever abused an item at its peak because it fit well on your champion and didn't ask for nerfs for it, you don't want balance.

Balance is getting everything in a state of evenness (even if that is impossible), and being ok with things being broken on one side because you like it, isn't balance.

Most post about people complaining are from people who lost to the thing, have never played the champion to learn about their weaknesses because most power of champions come far more from mastery then outright power, and utterly refuse to change the way the play, their item paths, or their core champions to realize that sometimes your champion loses to them.

Go on. Keep believing that bullshit. Your opinion is your opinion but you have done nothing to prove its validity.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.

mack91126 votes

{quoted}

Go on. Keep believing that bullshit. Your opinion is your opinion but you have done nothing to prove its validity.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.

I mean your account is literally level 5 and you have not said one credible thing on this board but spew riot hatred and personally attack people.

NoobDefault1 votes

{quoted}

I mean your account is literally level 5 and you have not said one credible thing on this board but spew riot hatred and personally attack people.

Lol.

You know when you've won an argument when the other person looks onto your account and follows you around the forum trying to desperately discredit you.

And another thing, this account is level 7. You need a level 7 account to post on the forums. Yet another "fact" you got horribly wrong... Mr "I work for Intel please take me seriously"

mack91122 votes

{quoted}

Lol.

You know when you've won an argument when the other person looks onto your account and follows you around the forum trying to desperately discredit you.

And another thing, this account is level 7. You need a level 7 account to post on the forums. Yet another "fact" you got horribly wrong... Mr "I work for Intel please take me seriously"

The issue here is you have barely even played the game to have anything credible to talk about.

NoobDefault2 votes

{quoted}

Once again you have don’t nothing but personally attack everyone you have interacted.

You can talk game balance when you have experience with the game and your current account shows none. Either you are lieing or you have received an account ban either is a clean indication you have not earned the right to be involved in this community.

I do not believe you have any real understanding of how league of legends works and you use this board as a outlet for personal emotional issues. The fact you personally attack everyone you interact with instead of providing anything credible just continues to support everything I am saying.

You know nothing about this game.

Ohh lord, you are pathetic. Before you claim "personal attack" perhaps consider stop acting like fucking idiot as if you know it all, stop pretending like the innocent party and actually come up with any data to back up your ludicrous claims. And no. Blog posts dont count.

Go on, provide creditable data. I fucking dare you. This is what? The 7th time I've asked you to provide anything. And you have failed every single time and tried to cry wolf.

I've called you out on your bullshit and every time you have made a claim it has been fundamentally wrong at the basic level. So don't get salty when I call out what I see, a lying little child who is still clutching at straws.

I have provided my Data, you have not. End of.

mack91122 votes

{quoted}

Ohh lord, you are pathetic. Before you claim "personal attack" perhaps consider stop acting like fucking idiot as if you know it all, stop pretending like the innocent party and actually come up with any data to back up your ludicrous claims. And no. Blog posts dont count.

Go on, provide creditable data. I fucking dare you. This is what? The 7th time I've asked you to provide anything. And you have failed every single time and tried to cry wolf.

I've called you out on your bullshit and every time you have made a claim it has been fundamentally wrong at the basic level. So don't get salty when I call out what I see, a lying little child who is still clutching at straws.

I have provided my Data, you have not. End of.

But I have spoken and provided my side of the story.

You have done nothing but say ‘you are pathetic ‘

When all you do is personally attack every person you interact with you simply loose all credibility.

As well you are a level 7 player meaning from my perspective you have absolutely no understanding of how the game works.

So if the data that I have provided is wrong because it is from blogs what data do you have to counter those ? And no trends from google searches is in no way shape or form a valid point.

Tell me viewership numbers of esports ( which is increasing year over year ) tell me game player count ( which is increasing in every sector except NA which lost 1k players) if you do not know any of this then educate yourself and spend a few hours on the leave reddit sub page.

It might wake you up from your toxic perceptive.

mack91122 votes

{quoted}

I've explained in detail why you are pathetic.

Dont be rediculous. Ofc, search results on the biggest search engine are valid.

Now provide Data.

I gave my information and google trends in no that in no way shape or form reflects the player base of the league of legends community if you refuse to even visit the league reddit community which has 20 times the population of this board.

You are literally attaching a complete stranger on a board about a video game calling them pathetic with no reason as to why. There is a reason why I don’t attack you personally for the simple reason that I am credible while you are not.

mack91122 votes

{quoted}

Provide Data.

Dude I literally have.

While you provided literally nothing ... from a level 7 account ... lol

John Westlin2 votes

{quoted}

But I have spoken and provided my side of the story.

You have done nothing but say ‘you are pathetic ‘

When all you do is personally attack every person you interact with you simply loose all credibility.

As well you are a level 7 player meaning from my perspective you have absolutely no understanding of how the game works.

So if the data that I have provided is wrong because it is from blogs what data do you have to counter those ? And no trends from google searches is in no way shape or form a valid point.

Tell me viewership numbers of esports ( which is increasing year over year ) tell me game player count ( which is increasing in every sector except NA which lost 1k players) if you do not know any of this then educate yourself and spend a few hours on the leave reddit sub page.

It might wake you up from your toxic perceptive.

viewership doesnt mean increasing of players. They are people who never play this game and still watch esport. They are some who already left this game as well. But oh dear, you think this game should survive around esport alone? You are wrong. Soon, other games would gain more viewership and league is going down.

GigglesO4 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, most balance complaints on here all boil down to this: "This thing beat me, it's OP and needs nerfs. No, I have never played the champion before why should I have to understand their kit? Yeah, their kit naturally counters my champion's kit. I also didn't itemize against them at all, but it doesn't matter, I'm the best player in the world so if anything beats me it couldn't be for any other reason besides it meaning that thing is OP."

Most of the balance Issues I complain about are related to penetration/rage blade and how any champions that can abuse it invalidate tanks.

I also just don’t like Damage meta.

Death by Glamour27 votes

Riot games had (key word) around 100million players

LegendmakerGTX5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bZnLfVB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-14T21:28:09.196+0000)

Riot games had (key word) around 100million players

Actually that's B.S coming from Riot they never once actually say if thee accounts are "Bots" or players with "multiple" accounts.

Jenivie15 votes

Riot in general doesnt care about feedback, not just the balance team.

Jennifer42013 votes

they care about pro play AND lol reddit because the place has like 95% yes men.

Garen is adopted13 votes

"we care only about pro play"*

SiG DxD13 votes

it feels like balance became a joke for months now

iTaLenTZ5 votes

[{quoted}](name=SiG DxD,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bZnLfVB,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-09-14T21:58:30.619+0000)

it feels like balance became a joke for months now

Years. Ever since Morello left at the beginning of season 5.

Nhika5 votes

[{quoted}](name=SiG DxD,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bZnLfVB,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-09-14T21:58:30.619+0000)

it feels like balance became a joke for months now

years

Princess Teo2 votes

it was always a joke, because faker plays ryze

Ecophile10 votes

You do realise that we could look at it the other way around, right?

Ziggs Swain both have super high win rates, but are not seen in pro play. Yet they don't receive buffs...

Diana is never seen in pro play AND have low win rate, however she does not receive buffs.

Your logic is not consistent. Also, balancing for low elo is super hard, because you essentially need to dumb down champions to make them viable and increase base stats too much to make them good. So you miss the other side of the story. I do think they should balance around high elos and pro play because only there you see the true power of some champs.

Papa Stalin3 votes

If a champion is super busted in the pro play scene then why not just leave it at that? Aatrox pick or ban during LCK, but it was fine like that. 90% of the time they would ban him just like how in soloq yasuo has a 45% ban rate(because hes frustrating to play with and against)? SKT Khan would pick aatrox now and again and he would keep a 70% winrate. But that is because the pro play scene is so much more different that solo q. There, teams communicate and interact a lot more. Which is a key part of what makes aatrox strong. In solo q, aatrox does not even have the conditions to actually be strong like he is in pro play. Even the best aatrox in solo q holds around a 55%-60% win rate with him. Aatrox was made to be an amazing teamfighter when teams communicate, that is why he is strong in pro play. And i don't think people in solo q who enjoy aatrox and know that he can't be as strong as he is in pro play take a hit because of that.

As for ziggs and swain, they don't get nerfed because they are not in pro play. If Faker started picking ziggs because he discovered his hidden potential in Pro play, he would get a nerf.

Diana on the other hand right now has 50% winrate with a 4.3% pickrate (the low winrate means she is slightly more difficult of a champion to play). That is healthy for solo q, and no one plays her in pro play because she just isn't viable there

teerav3 votes

{quoted}

You do realise that we could look at it the other way around, right?

Ziggs Swain both have super high win rates, but are not seen in pro play. Yet they don't receive buffs...

Diana is never seen in pro play AND have low win rate, however she does not receive buffs.

Your logic is not consistent. Also, balancing for low elo is super hard, because you essentially need to dumb down champions to make them viable and increase base stats too much to make them good. So you miss the other side of the story. I do think they should balance around high elos and pro play because only there you see the true power of some champs.

Ahh, sad that I had to scroll down so far to find the first sensable response.

LordKinehtist6 votes

I'm so fucking sad of Sylas, one of the most fun champions getting destroyed. First Aatrox and now him, my two main FUN picks jungle are gone

Aazzlano8 votes

both are absolutely cancer to play against, some of the most straight up unfun games i've ever played in 6 years have been vs specifically those 2 champs.

maybe if they made the champs fun to play but not cancer to play against then it would be fine. as it is, they can both be nerfed into the ground

LordKinehtist2 votes

Then why do they exist? If people don't like to fight against them then ban them, or really remove them from the game. I permaban Yi because I hate playing against him, I've never played against him since months because I don't want to. I don't even ban my counters because of it

Terozu4 votes

They also don't exist.

There is no 'balance team'. That term was made up by the fanbase.

Zeyphel3 votes

Remember when they said that they would change Kayn but they will still keep him viable for top? Just to appear one week after and say: "You know, we actually just want him to be a jungler."

Why should we belief anything that Riot says nowadays? Just don't expect anything but the worst from them.

That way, they can't dissapoint you.

Aatrox Eichmann2 votes

i mean, they sneaked the message into a 1-sentence patch review a bit after that they didnt like corrupting pot kayn top and will cease developing a way for him to be viable top.

also various other toplane lane-bullies which are pushed to lane there essentially because they don't fit in anywhere else and thats the lane where riot shoves their rejects, like quinn.

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

Because same reason as Pyke, Riot enjoys off-handed roles, but not when it comes at the expense of the main roles. It's why most Supports are typically shoved out of solo lanes, why Alistair is discouraged from the jungle, and why Kayn was shoved back into the jungle.

Chainman31 votes

But then they allow players to pick kayn top and alistar jungle with no repercussions if the player plays poorly because everyone can play what they want as long as they’re trying to win. Why put champions at a disadvantage in roles where they work better than their designed roles just to “force” roles onto champions?

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Vi was originally a top laner, who ended up working far better in the jungle. Zyra was a midlaner who ended up working far better as a support. If the champions naturally drift to a new place with zero issues, than it's completely fine. The issue comes in is 'what is fine'. Do they work better in a certain role because they are healthy and have better match ups, or are they better because they fundamentally become unfair for the role itself, like several Support solo laners in the past.

It's not just about whether a champion can do another role other than what they were designed for. It's about whether or not they're healthy in that role and lane. It's why there's such fuss about mages as supports down bot.

Chainman32 votes

Do you consider Zyra as a support to be fine? She seems very oppressive to me much more than the tradition laning poke based support was designed to be. Take lulu for example and compare her to zyra.

"It's why there's such fuss about mages as supports down bot." This is my exact point. So why did they focus on ending tahm kench top while mage supports are down bot providing more dmg than their adc. Does that seem healthy?

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Riot certainly does, as do they think the same with Brand. I think the trade offs they have over traditional supports is big enough for them to stay. Ironically, my biggest problem is not Zyra and Brand, but someone like Lux who actually has some killer shielding along with her damage.

Because Tahm was extremely one-sided top, and actively won everything within melee range. Poke supports at least have the natural counterplay of dodging, along with being naturally squishy to compensate. Tahm built tank and actively won against everything that wasn't ranged.

Chainman32 votes

"at least have the natural counterplay of dodging, along with being naturally squishy to compensate" But isnt that the same thing as considering "dodging" as counterplay? What i mean to say is, poke is poke for a reason theyre not easy to engage on and if you stretch your mobility too far you can end up on top of them with no dmg or follow up. Dodging when referring to a 20 sec cd hook is one thing. But dodging a yuumi Q or zyra plants which auto target you or an abilitty like brand W which is up every 7 or 8 seconds. Dodging these while farming gets rather difficult or forces you to give up cs which causes you to fall behind. After several times this can cause serious issues to the lane. Not to mention that even all ins on brand and zyra can still end up in 1 or both bot laners dying if brand's ult gets lucky bounces or zyra has 2 plants with her and her adc doesnt just leave her to die.

Chainman33 votes

Here’s the thing, where I agree riot doesn’t listen to feedback, I also see that some players’ feedback just isn’t worth listening to. Take for example people who complain about tanks, when you bring up champions like rammus and malphite they say “those are different and tank malphite can 1 shot” when you show them the stats of a full tank malphite and calculate his dmg they throw insults and leave. This is the majority of players on the boards. They don’t run the stats they don’t check the numbers of that champion. Now is this all players who provide feedback? No, but to have to sift through a large number of “feedback” daily where majority of it is just players ranting for playing poorly can become pretty tiring and not that beneficial. So at this point it’s more beneficial to take what is said on the boards lightly and not as actual feedback because the integrity of that feedback is compromised heavily. I know this isn’t what you guys wanna hear but it’s the truth

Mouth Stuff2 votes

I have never seen something truer said on these boards, it's all about cherrypicking information to slam your argument home

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