Legends of Runeterra problem with deny

ttrop·1/30/2020, 11:11:53 AM·7 votes·4,881 views

Deny for a card only with a 3 cost its too powerful, with 3 in deck you can use it very often with high reward. for 3 cost it can deny any spells and the spell it denys still uses its mana cost.

even vengence aka kill a unit a unit version of deny costs 7 mana, while it does basically the same thing it costs 4 more mana then deny.

i think either you have to make it so deny can not stop spells that costs 5 or more or maybe even limit the number to 2 in deck if it will only cost 3 mana, or like vengence it should cost at least 5 or 6 with 0 text change

PS i forgot to say but deny also stops ablities

13 Comments

themachamp22/6/2020, 7:30:49 PM6 votes

Deny needs to be a 5 mana card imo. It is one of the major reasons why legit control decks are not playable in the higher ranks. Pressure on the board with deny back up single handedly stops most come back mechanics. I.E. no ruination, Rhassa ability gets countered etc. Too make matters worse....deny and elusive are in the same region.

Love4All2/11/2020, 12:03:13 AM5 votes

I love how everyone is mentioning these vague ideas like "answers to deny" or "ways around it" you know how many of those there are? 1. Keeping deny yourself. Literally EVERY deck I encounter in ranked play right now is splash Ionia for this reason. A card that makes the meta one faction because of its sheer playability? Not balance, not at all.

Silly Neeko1/30/2020, 12:43:00 PM2 votes

Except it cant be used on burst spells, it cant be used on quite a few skills..... and some of those 5 cost cards have very similar 2 cost alternatives. So while it may be strong vs some decks, it is weaker vs others.

If you want to see my in depth commentary about it so i am not copy and pasting from one area to another.... check out my previous messages, it isnt too far away from this one.

Saezio2/1/2020, 12:36:51 AM1 votes

Well, don't make a play unless you got answers for the deny. You just need to be very careful with your planning. always account for the enemy having a deny up the sleeve vs ionia.

You really need to be extra patient and have outs to it in your deck.

BTW you mention vengeance a lot. I think it's just a meme card.

QwertyiouP2/15/2020, 4:54:37 PM1 votes

Yeah, Deny is broken. The way you can reserve earlier turns' mana for Deny ammo makes it an incredibly strong card. It's a meta-defining card and if you play Ionia without running Deny you're voluntarily sapping a ton of power from your deck. It's just too versatile against way too many decks. There's not a deck out there that hoards most of its spell power on burst spells...that literally just does not exist.

The argument for % statistics on drawing Deny is also...mind boggling. First, if you have played any other card game before, you realize that those odds are actually INCREDIBLY good. In Hearthstone your deck size was 30, but you were limited to 2 copies of each card. In Magic your deck size is 60 (mostly) and you are limited to 4 copies of each. In Runeterra, more often than not you will find what you are looking for in your initial mulligan or first few draws. Second, you can literally say that about any card. You could run 3 cards that are burst spells "Win the game." and point out the % statistics and yell, "Look at the percentages!!" Point being: just because a card has a low draw percentage doesn't mean the card is not incredibly strong. (This doesn't apply to Deny, but for example you could only have 1 copy of Legendary cards in each deck in Hearthstone. That didn't make some of the OP Legendaries any less OP.) Not to mention--you literally don't want Deny in your early opener. The fact that you may draw Deny later rather than earlier is a good thing.

The state of the game right now is to not run high-cost high-swing cards, unless you want to lose every game vs. Ionia. Vengeance, Ruination, Judgement, etc. all just quake in fear of Deny. (Which is actually kind of funny thematically when you consider Shadow Isles quaking in fear of Ionia...)