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An Intelligent and Informed Explaination for Uninstalling For The Fourth Time

Birdie Sanders··6 votes·2,439 views

Incoming wall of text.

TL;DR Sorry Rito, I'm out. Here's why.

Alright. I was a moron and decided to re-install League after quitting in Season 3. I knew it was a mistake when I did it, but I did it anyway. 'Maybe it's gotten better', I thought. 'Maybe I really was just playing really badly.'

I'm afraid that's not the case. I've been stuck in Gold 5 since mid-season 2, which was after 14 promos from Silver. I've been stuck there ever since. Every single game I get I seem to be guaranteed at least one player who is either bad mannered, unskilled or, for some reason or another, does not belong in my game. Inevitably they are the trigger that causes the whole game to collapse.

Occasionally that player is me. I'm not so deluded to say it isn't; but more often than I care to count it's a jungler who can't gank, or an ADC who has 100 CS by 23 minutes. A Fizz who constantly attacks a Syndra, despite being 0/7 by ten minutes. On the flipside, the other team is roughly competent. Sometimes there's a moron there who gets carried or loses them the game after my struggling for 50 minutes to wrangle the drooling cats that are my teammates. Every single victory in my last 30 games has been hard-earned and by the skin of our teeth. After many of them I actually feel drained, as if I completed some great task and I can't believe it's finally over.

Quite frankly, I'm done. Your matchmaking system is simply ineffective. Whether someone wins or loses is not an accurate representation of their skill. Perhaps you should take a look at Heroes of the Storm for this. Their matchmaking is based upon kills, deaths, assists, and a little thing called Mechanics. It's a beautiful system that makes sure that you are almost always placed with players on your level.

Your matchmaking is filled with ELO boosting and great players who rocket out of Bronze and Silver. It's a great thing that you can fly out of there if you're good enough, but you bring a lot of idiots with you. These morons get placed into games they don't belong as their MMR falls back to where it needs to be, which ruins the game for four other people who may belong higher. This means there is a constant flow of unskilled players between Silver II and Gold III that make mistakes and play like a Silver V or a Bronze I. The flow of players is constant and once they get down to their normal MRR they can be carried up again, which starts the whole process over again. It's an looping waterfall of fail, and If you're not at least Plat 4 skillwise than you can't leave.

I'm afraid I just can't be a part of this system anymore. Whether it be luck or confirmation bias I have been stuck in this constant loop of displaced players who are on their way down. Instead of getting dragged up from where I am to where I don't belong I am stuck playing these soul-sucking, funless games that are so often and so frustrating that I have gone from being angry to just being sad. Regardless of whether you believe me or not, no one should get to this point by playing your game. Something is fundamentally wrong.

Until you fix your matchmaking system to be more comprehensive and find a way to deal with toxic players and ELO inflation I simply cannot play this game. It's a shame; there's really no better games out right now, and I do enjoy playing this game. I've tried to come back over and over yet still it's the same problem. In fact my friends refuse to play with me because it seems bad players follow me. It doesn't matter if I win my lane; our jungler is going to be an idiot. Our ADC is going to not know how to farm or how to not stand in melee range. This has gone on too long to be confirmation bias or a statistical anomaly. Something is truly broken, and so until it's fixed I must leave.

Oh, and I know one person leaving is really no big deal. You have 32 million players. But let me ask you this: how many people do you think are having a similar experience to me? How many people do you think will leave once a viable game is released? Perhaps one like Heroes of the Storm? I'm starting to think your massive playerbase is not exactly related to how good your game is, but is instead because of a lack of alternatives.

I really enjoy LCS and Worlds. I would really like to play games where I feel I'm engaged instead of dragging my ill-mannered and unobservant teammates from fighting after we get dragon, or staying too long after getting an inhib, or begging the jungler to not farm bot while Baron is up. I feel like these things are pretty straight-forward and generally pretty simple, yet these things happen time and time again in my games. I can safely say 75% of my games are like this, and I'm afraid that's just not okay.

Oh and while I'm at it, you guys really need to take a hard look at old champions. For example, Cho'Gath does not need so much sustain on his passive. He's absolutely immovable from lane with it, as well as insane harass, on top of AP-scaling true damage, sprinkled with a knockup-slow on a relatively short cooldown. It was certainly required in earlier seasons, but is unbalanced in today's game. There are only a few champions who are in this place, but when they are chosen in specific matchups they are utterly devastating and way beyond their designed power level.

Also Poppy. I don't think I need to elaborate.

I really hope you guys find a solution to these problems. It's time to bring League's matchmaking into the 21 century because the current ELO system just isn't working.

63 Comments

Raptamei4 votes

I just find it funny that the community says for 5 years that KDA-based matchmaking is impossible and then Blizzard just goes and does it. Just like Dota has free to leave a 4v5 and it works there too.

Should be a wake-up call for Riot.

Blizzard's secret? They modified the rules to make KDA matchmaking work. And that's good; MOBA rules are by no means sacred.

KzooCrasher2 votes

So what happens to players like me who's KDA can often suffer for the sake of their team. I am more than happy to trade my life for an inner turret. Or engage a fight I know I will lose in order to stop backs and let my team take objectives.... if you make a kda based ranking system you will have players always worried about their kda which is MUCH worse for their teams chances of winning. (Plus people will all try to execute people for kills instead of just trying to kill champions. Also who gets kills is somewhat luck based I can DFG full combo someone as Loss doing 90% of the damage and the Brain support could get the kill.

Birdie Sanders2 votes

You should look at Heroes of the Storm. Their Mechanics stat makes up for that. They give you points for well-executed combos and turrets and such. It makes up for a pure KDA system.

KzooCrasher1 votes

Except I can guarantee you that it can't account for things like saving a turret but dying and making a sacrifice else where that gives your team an advantage but isn't directly affected by you. In league its great if you play well you'll climb except playing well is a huge compilation of things not just kda.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

Riot is a very rich company full of very smart people. If I could put any company to be capable of doing just that I would pick them. Their livelihoods depend on it.

KzooCrasher3 votes

Their lively hoods depend on it? They have made an amazing game with a great system and they keep improving it their lively hood in no way depends on them changing a system that has worked for two years and completely overhauling it.... they have no reason to it works fine.

PoisonedPeace1 votes

They have made a super fun game with a terrible system. They completed the first quality rework in 3 years with Sion, and they continue to release and ignore absolutely overloaded champions.

Not to mention the community would rather watch people be mutilated irl than someone die once in game.

KzooCrasher1 votes

Well I can't remember every rework but trundle was a super huge success in my opinion

PoisonedPeace2 votes

He was played extensively for one week after his update, and it was hardly a rework. They changed his ulti, and some scaling features on his Q. Gave him a VU and called it a rework. He was no better than he was before, he just didn't look like a steaming pile of shit.

Long Dong Wukong2 votes

KDA matchmaking is pointless for a MOBA. So you have a good KDA? It matches you with other good players with good KDA's.

Guess what? When you play against better people your KDA goes down. It is literally pointless.

The only thing that needs fixing is their double MMR/Elo system. Pick one or the other, both of them at the same time does nothing more than artificially roadblock progress. You can be doing well but just so happen to lose your promotion matches 3 times in a row, except now you're playing with Plat 2's as a Gold 3, which makes it pretty much impossible to actually win promos on the actual ranking system.

It's just bad.

Long Dong Wukong4 votes

Oh by the way, git gud. You're just another standard moba player that thinks everything except YOU is keeping you back. You aren't actually as good as you think you are. You don't actually understand the game as well as you think you do. You aren't actually as aware of what you should be doing or how you should reacting as well as you think you are.

If you're better than the division you climb eventually, period. If you're significantly better, you rocket straight through the whole tier. You've been Gold 5 for years. You're a Gold 5 player. Spend the time to actually learn and you might just get somewhere.

Tserris3 votes

I've played this game off and on for three years, of my three ranked accounts I've trudged two out of the silver-gold vortex you mentioned, one as high as diamond and one merely plat. The third is perpetually stuck between silver 1 and gold 2, on this particular account I am constantly experiencing uncharacteristically bad luck with matchmaking -so bad that it feels pointed, and deliberate in contrast to my luck on my other two ranked accounts. It's one of those things that just gets under my skin and never comes out. No matter how many wards I place, no matter how many wards I clear, objectives I claim, roams, ganks, kills, no matter how impressive my personal performance there is a simple and fundamental fact that an enemy team that is handily ahead on gold due to the seemingly mindless maneuvers my team tries while obviously being in positions where nothing positive can come of such obviously bad decisions, is simply too much for a single relatively skilled player to handle.

Determining an individual person's skill level by basing the scoring system on external and unrelated statistics that account for a loss or a win is absolute and complete madness. It makes no sense, and until it starts making sense we're going to see comprehensive complain posts about the horrible matchmaking system, such as this.

Birdie Sanders2 votes

Thank you. You hit the nail right on the head. I'm so glad I'm not crazy. This vortex of fail DOES exist.

Long Dong Wukong2 votes

But muh elo hell guys it's real :(

Yeah, git gud.

Birdie Sanders3 votes

What a blindingly intelligent and constructive comment. Your wisdom is a beacon of light to us all, Mr. Long Dong.

Phobos Selini1 votes

Yeah sure Bro. And you are posting with an lvl 26 account. Maybe you are right with what you say, but I highly doubt it. A true Diamond player should have no problems to get out of silver within a few dozens of games.

Jryiah2 votes

Why not play normal blinds? Shinny EPEEN badge is 100% useless anyways.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

I'm far too competitive. I feel I'm wasting my time if I'm working towards something. It's bad enough I'm spending hours and hours on this game.

ModUlanopo1 votes

Well, at least you mentioned confirmation bias.

Birdie Sanders2 votes

Oh Ulanopo. I can't claim to be informed and not mark part of my attitude as logical fallacy. It simply wouldn't be true. There ARE games that I win, and quite handedly, but nothing close to the 50% that Riot promises. If that was the case I would be upset, but not like this.

ModUlanopo2 votes

Oh Ulanopo. I can't claim to be informed and not mark part of my attitude as logical fallacy. It simply wouldn't be true. There ARE games that I win, and quite handedly, but nothing close to the 50% that Riot promises. If that was the case I would be upset, but not like this.

I don't understand why you're upset. You're in Gold, which puts you above something like 75% of the population. I have been told by my higher-ranked friends that advancing any further requires a different skill set than those you developed in Bronze and Silver. If your ranking has stabilized, you might simply have peaked with the abilities you have.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

I have won local tournaments against Plat+ players. I've proven that my peak skill is somewhere around Plat 3, yet no matter how hard I work I just can't seem to get there. Doesn't matter how many games I spam. I'm upset because, unlike the idiots who ruin a large majority of my games, I have not settled to where I belong. Those people have settled and have been disrupted by people rocketing out of their ELO.

I agree the skillset of a Plat is very different from the ones in Silver and Gold. If I were still playing I'd gladly stream for you to prove it, but I'm uncertain I'd be able to keep my sanity if I continued.

ModUlanopo1 votes

I've proven that my peak skill is somewhere around Plat 3, yet no matter how hard I work I just can't seem to get there.

Actually, you have only proven that you can beat those specific players in a specific environment.

There's a story about one of Chess' big-name grand masters - I think it was Kasparov - who went into Central Park during a tournament break. He ended up losing $100 to people playing speed chess. This flustered him, so he dropped out of the tournament and took some time off to reexamine his game.

The point is that you could have been playing up, your opponents could have been playing down or any of a thousand other factors.

Regardless, I'm sorry that you're not enjoying League any more and I hope you find satisfaction with whatever else you choose to do.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

You're essentially proving my point, though I don't think you see it. League's matchmaking is actually very similar to chess. Chess is a game where there is no team aspect. If you lose, you made a mistake. It's that simple. League is definitely not that simple. Not only are there your mistakes to worry about, but the mistakes and interactions of nine other people.

You're absolutely correct, and you've proven my original point. Thank you.

ModUlanopo1 votes

I understand your point, I just disagree with it.

For one thing, League matchmaking used to be based on an Elo system, but it was always heavily modified and was eventually replaced with a new MMR system when they went to ranks. The Elo system itself was never meant to be used for matchmaking; it's a system for determining who is the better player. It was also never intended for use with team games - for exactly the reasons you explain - which is why companies like Riot have developed their own systems.

So, your argument that MMR should be affected by individual performance is probably already true. Riot has stated on a couple of occasions that there are many factors that enter into the equation. I think it was especially telling when a red said, "By looking at your internals, I can see that you need to work on last-hitting more." This was long before the detailed match history. Now, this isn't proof that CS affects your MMR, but it is proof that Riot tracks a lot of statistics that we don't hear about and has for a while.

Keep in mind that your LP and MMR are separate. It's very possible that you are partially shielded from MMR loss when your team performs poorly. Now, I know what you're going to say, "But, Ulanopo, doesn't that prove that Elo hell exists?" Not at all. If your MMR is less subject to the vagaries of individual matches, then it will be a better representation of your actual skill and you will get paired with people of similar skill.

Birdie Sanders2 votes

That might be all well and good, but it doesn't really matter much. Just because Riot knows you need to work on CSing doesn't mean you do. What use is that information if it's fucking invisible? I agree with the points you've made, but it doesn't really touch on the main problem, which is that no one should feel like this while playing a game. Whether it's linear or not makes no difference if it feels linear. Do you see what I mean?

ModUlanopo1 votes

What use is that information if it's fucking invisible?

Conversely, what are the negative aspects of making that information available?

Birdie Sanders1 votes

I can't think of any off the top of my head. I mean, if you can see the reason you lost then you really can't be mad about it. The truth sucks sometimes, but I've always been of the opinion that it's better to know than not.

EDIT: I'm sure there are drawbacks, but it's 4AM and I'm about to crash.

ModUlanopo1 votes

My apologies, I was unclear.

You can see all of that information in the new match record. It's not the data, it's the context.

Riot has hinted that MMR is adjusted by more than just win/loss, but they have never talked about details. That's important because play behavior would dramatically change the moment players knew how to shield themselves from MMR loss.

Tserris1 votes

There aren't any. There is absolutely no negative side to being able to see the total statistics for every factor in a won or lost game. I would personally love to know my average wards placed per game, I would love to know my average wards cleared, you should at least have the option to compare your personal stats against the average stats for each tier of play.

Sh*t, i mean just introducing replays would allow people to go back and watch what they did wrong. Not everyone has access to recording tools, after all.

Long Dong Wukong2 votes

Not only are there your mistakes to worry about, but the mistakes and interactions of nine other people.

You're there to make up for your team's mistakes and capitalize on the enemy's mistakes. You have more than 10% control of the outcome of the match. You have more than 20%. You're the difference between a close loss and a close win, so if you're playing better than the division that you're in, you're going to win more games. If you're losing constantly in your division from what you can only perceive as your team's mistakes, then you've met your knowledge cap, if not your skill cap.

If you were a Plat 3 player in Gold 5 you should be able to stomp the living hell out of that match because Gold 5's don't know what they're doing. Gold 5 is simply a skill bracket that means you're mechanically capable of playing (some) champions correctly when compared to super low elo. Which is more than enough to get you out of Bronzodia and Silver.

You're not stomping 90% of the games, so don't bother thinking you play like a Plat 3. You don't.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

Okay. You have a very skewed way of looking at things.

When you have a person on your team feeding it's not just a 4v5, it's a 6v4. It's actually preferable to have a leaver as they're not feeding the other team gold, giving away your position, ect. My main problem is having many, many games with at least one person who clearly does not belong in the division. Sure, if I played better I might have been able to turn around a game or two, but I've been in far too many games that are simply unwinnable. If not by statistics than at least by morale. One of the main things Golds seem to do is give up and start doing stupid shit because they 'don't care anymore'.

So basically everything you just said is wrong, and if you don't think so then you're a part of the problem and clearing don't see it.

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

Git gud or keep whining about your teams that better players can carry(hint : you're not better than the people that you're playing with so you belong there)

Imperial Red1 votes

See ya

Birdie Sanders1 votes

Oh hey Fizz.

Imperial Red1 votes

You know, I understand the frustration. Even though I haven't, and don't really plan to, play ranked games, just losing a few games because of some troll, or unskilled player can get aggravating. But I still find the game fun. You can enjoy the game without working to build rank.

Birdie Sanders2 votes

Well thanks for elaborating a bit. Now I don't think you're a complete idiot. You're a casual player, and that's awesome. Unfortunately I just don't get the same rush from winning unless I'm working towards some greater goal. Thanks for the input, but I'm afraid it just doesn't apply to me. :(

Imperial Red1 votes

It's a matter of dedication at that point. People worked their way up through, what I hear called, ELO hell, but it took a lot of games before things worked out just right, where everyone got the position that they are good with, and the champions they know best being available. Because while you may know how to play in mid or top, you won't necessarily be at Silver 1 level for those. Not that I expect to convince you to stay around, or plan to, but it's something to think about I suppose.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

Well not that it matters, but I normally main ADC. I'd say my skill is roughly the same for all roles, save support where I'm most likely Gold 5ish. My main point is that the matchmaking system is far too linear for a dynamic game like League. The issue isn't my mindset, it's the system itself.

Long Dong Wukong3 votes

No, it's your mindset. The system sucks to deal with because it's using MMR AND Elo, but it's perfectly function and very accurate with enough matches and time, which you've graciously donated to it. Like I've said, a Diamond and hop in the match you're convinced is unwinnable and be 25/0/10 by the end of it. When matches get hard and you can't win, stop and start analyzing what's going wrong, leaving your team out of the analysis completely. Sometimes you'll actually get a dc or a intentional feeder, but that's like 0.5% of the game that you're going to play. And you can even win those too.

If you're actually better than the people you're playing with, you'll carry some way or another. If you can't figure out how to carry the division you're in and don't care to figure it out, you're stuck there and you belong there.

Oh, and some friendly advice, don't play bottom lane and expect to carry very often unless you're just amazing at the role. You're completely team reliant as ADC if you aren't pretty fed. So if you can't get fed because you're better than they are every match, you're stuck FOLLOWING your team, and it's never a good plan to be a follower in Solo Q. You want to be the one carrying.

my skill is roughly the same for all roles, save support where I'm most likely Gold 5ish.

By the way, you're gold 5 in everything else too.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

Leaving aside the pointless bit at the end where you insult me, you're not entirely wrong. Thing is, this game generally is very team-based. I explained my point of view above, so I'm not going to reiterate. You obviously haven't read all the points or else you wouldn't be claiming MMR and ELO combined are accurate, because it clearly isn't. It's a system that can be manipulated and is being manipulated. The funny part is that no one is really meaning to do so; it's a side effect of people rocketing out of Bronze and Silver. It really only affects those in low Gold. If you get out of that cesspool then you're basically homefree. If you're not lucky enough to get the decent games for your promos then you're basically fucked. As I was fucked.

The only way to beat this broken system is not to play. Which makes me sad.

By the way, your elitist attitude doesn't help anything. Plenty of people are seeing this anomaly; it's not just me.

And in case you decided not to read the important bits the main idea is that unskilled players are getting much higher than they should be. I'm sure you get people in Plat 5 who don't belong every now and then; maybe a Gold 4 who got carried up and lost you the game because he fed mid 0/5. Imagine that every single game and even having two of them on your team, while the enemy team is the average Gold 5-3 player. Perhaps then you'll understand my frustration.

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

Plenty of people are seeing this anomaly; it's not just me.

Yeah, check your poll. Cry more or git good. Those are your options.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

How about you enjoy this nice, hot cup of shut the fuck up? You keep saying the same shit over and over again with no proof or logic.

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

Naw, it's k.

You might end up gitting gud eventually and you'll look back and realize how bad you were.

Or you might not, who knows.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

Alright. I'm done feeding you. I've made my points and you're still an idiot. Whatever.

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

You unfortunately don't have a point and just think that you're better than you are

Junkο1 votes

Oh and while I'm at it, you guys really need to take a hard look at old champions. For example, Cho'Gath does not need so much sustain on his passive. He's absolutely immovable from lane with it, as well as insane harass, on top of AP-scaling true damage, sprinkled with a knockup-slow on a relatively short cooldown. It was certainly required in earlier seasons, but is unbalanced in today's game. There are only a few champions who are in this place, but when they are chosen in specific matchups they are utterly devastating and way beyond their designed power level.

I'm sorry but i CANNOT take this seriously at all.

Birdie Sanders1 votes

That's nice. You know what they say about opinions. Mine is just a popular one.

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

Check your pole homie

Birdie Sanders1 votes

Yep. Tried again. Maybe Long Dong was right and I was just bad.

My match history is now impressive. I have lost 70% of my games. A great deal of them because of AFKs or intentional feeding, although no more than normal. Supposedly you auto-win and lose 45% of games, so that's accounted for.

No. I lost many more because of feeding junglers and supports who just sit back and do nothing. I tried maining my strongest toon, even switched up my roles, runes, everything. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how hard I carry or how well my mechanics are; if there's a feeding jungler or just one really shit person on my team then it's an auto-lose.

I'm officially done. Here's to hoping the games are different in Preseason, because I'm so beyond fucking done trying to climb out of this stinking Hell-hole that is Gold 5.

And to all you who say 'git gud' and other inane nonsense, fuck you sideways with a rake. You don't play my games or even bother to look at my stats. You have no idea how much effort and energy I've put into improving and winning these games. You have no clue what my history is in gaming. You simply don't know what I'm capable of. Shit, I barely do.

And telling me to carry and not worry about my team is a cop-out. This is a fucking team game and your team is only as strong as your weakest link. Thanks a fucking bunch for that, Riot. You've made it so that we're fighting the enemy team as well as our own teammates. You've created the most toxic game in the world and everyone seems to just run on hate. Good fucking job.

So here's to hoping Riot can fix some of this bullshit with the Preseason. I'm definitely not fucking optimistic, but shit at this point why not?

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