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Lets talk about Zyra.

Spooky Zombie··4 votes·635 views

Zyra, a mage who used to be pretty strong. While I never played her doing this strong phase, idk if I was even around, I have heard tales of Zyra being this super strong mage with an insta-death combo. Now? She is weak, and playing her feels like I'm new to this game.

Lets talk about why. First of her, her plants are BUGGY. I will place my seed down, and part of the time, it wont even form into a plant. The seed will be placed, i'll use my Q or my E on the seed, and the seed will disappear and go on a short cooldown. Why? Also, her plants will not target the right person, or minion, a majority of the time.

Second, her E is probably the slowest CC in the whole game. You throw it out, the enemy has a chance to dodge because it moves so slowly, and it leaves Zyra vulnerable. By the time it roots someone, zyra has barely a second to react.

Third, her health. She has the second lowest health in this entire game. (RIP Anivia ) She is someone who is always pushing because of her plants, and due to always being pushed, she is vulnerable to ganks. With no mobility and little health, ganks are usually an instadeath for this champion.

Fourth, her passive. You cannot shoot it upon death, you have to wait a few seconds, click and point it, wait a second, and then it goes off. It almost never hits anyone, the amount of time it takes to use lets them escape, or dodge it. Her passive is a really cool idea, but sadly it just isn't working. If you plan to keep her passive in her future update, please just fix the time it takes to use. But what she really needs is a passive that goes with her plants.

Lastly, her update that is planned. "Focusing mainly on her support." Please for the love of god, no. Focus on her mid. She is not a good support and that is not what should be focused on for her update.

I do not see why this champion has not gotten really any buffs recently (besides the plant update last season, which didn't really help. Her plants are as buggy as they always have been.) I've noticed a lot of the times when champions are strong at one point, and then they get majorly gutted, they won't get any help for what seems like ages. Can we please fix the seed problem where it disappears while we wait for her update? Zyra

12 Comments

5050BS1 votes

I agree with everything you said here.

I play her mid all the time, she is my main and I have a 60-65% winrate with her.

The only real things Riot needs to do to fix Zyra is fix the buggy plant AI and make a new Passive that works with her plants.

I dont mind her low HP or slow movement speed. I dont want they to nerf her Burst and having Burst needs weaknesses (even though Riven and Lee and Rengar and Kha dont seem to "need" them for some reason)

Spooky Zombie2 votes

Oh my god I completely forgot about her passive. That was one of the points I wanted to make. I just feel like she needs more than 479 (??) base health because of how well she pushes. If her E wasnt so slow and unreliable it wouldn't matter. But, she has no escape. Her root could be one if it wasn't garbage.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

She is not a good support and that is not what should be focused on for her update.

Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean she is weak there? or that she isn't healthy there? or that she's not fun to play as there? I'm just not sure what you are trying to say with this statement.

I do not see why this champion has not gotten really any buffs recently

Cause winrates. Riot say they don't balance around them,but to a very large extent they do,pretty much any high elo player is aware of the issues you've mentioned,riot just doesn't give a fuck if since her winrate is good.

L0ve Is Blue1 votes

Zyra isn't a good support because she simply isnt designed to be one. All of her kit is designed around damage, and i mean ALL of her kit. Not a single ability, not even her passive doesnt deal damage. She is a mage, she was made to deal damage and that is the role she should feel. She has no ability to support anyone and when she is played bot lane its more like a second AP carry or a KS carry that will take the place of her AD carry.

"Yes but she can lock down target to give kills" no. She can't. Unless she uses only her E or ult she can't lock down someone. Her flowers and damage output in general are too high to lock down people in the intent of giving a kill, she most of the time will KS and the plants will not take in account that you wanted to give the kill to your adc, they will keep striking until the foe dies. And this is what most of Zyra players want more of, deadly flowers, thorns, damage.

Of course she could still be played support, but more as a niche pick. Her main role shoudl deffinitely be an AP mid laner with damaging spells, good dissengage and deadly ambushes.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=11UU0AAH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-03-22T01:37:28.785+0000)

Zyra isn't a good support because she simply isnt designed to be one.

Um,that's not a very good argument,I mean blitz and leona weren't made to be supports,they still fit there well.

All of her kit is designed around damage, and i mean ALL of her kit. Not a single ability, not even her passive doesnt deal damage. She is a mage, she was made to deal damage and that is the role she should feel. She has no ability to support anyone and when she is played bot lane its more like a second AP carry or a KS carry that will take the place of her AD carry.

Well she has quite a lot of cc,but even if she did only damage,this game is supposed to have diversity in it,different supports doing different things is good.

In mid lane for example you have utility mages focused around providing utility for their team,assassins focused around killing high priority targets,aoe mages focused on teamfights,why should supports only help their team through utility?

"Yes but she can lock down target to give kills" no. She can't. Unless she uses only her E or ult she can't lock down someone. Her flowers and damage output in general are too high to lock down people in the intent of giving a kill, she most of the time will KS and the plants will not take in account that you wanted to give the kill to your adc, they will keep striking until the foe dies. And this is what most of Zyra players want more of, deadly flowers, thorns, damage.

Taking kills is only slightly subpar on a mage support such as zyra,and even then since plants damage output is consistent,a good adc should be able to last hit champions,but even if he doesn't it's not a big deal. It's not only that,some people want supports on which it's sensible to get kills,why deny them that? So that the adc will feel better about himself? The support is not the slave of the adc you know.

Of course she could still be played support, but more as a niche pick. Her main role shoudl deffinitely be an AP mid laner with damaging spells, good dissengage and deadly ambushes.

Zyra as a champion is supposed to be a niche pick overall,I also have no idea why all of your concerns are fine as long as support zyra is a niche pick,if you think ksing and a support dealing damage is something bad,why would it suddenly be ok if it's a niche pick?

Spooky Zombie1 votes

She is not a good support for a few reasons.

A. Her plants steal. She can't fully control them and sometimes they end up taking farm and kills.

B. Her kit is not the best for supports. You look at some supports, they have strong CC, heals, shields etc. she has a root and a knock up, her root is weak compared to a Morgana stun, or a blitz pull etc.

C. She also isn't healthy there, her burst is too high for a support. But if you nerf her burst for support, you kill her mid. Which will inevitably happen if they balance her for support.

D. She also isn't fun to play there. I get stressed playing her support. It's probably due to stealing farm and kills. ADCs hate zyra support for reason A, ADCs will rage at me, and I will get stressed further and get upset.

And the reason why I say the "why hasn't she gotten any buffs" is because I see these ridiculously unhealthy champions get buffs, while she is incredibly weak and getting very little attention.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

She is not a good support for a few reasons.

A. Her plants steal. She can't fully control them and sometimes they end up taking farm and kills.

Their damage output is still predictable,and auto attacks still hit harder,meaning a good adc will still be able to last hit.

B. Her kit is not the best for supports. You look at some supports, they have strong CC, heals, shields etc. she has a root and a knock up, her root is weak compared to a Morgana stun, or a blitz pull etc.

Well her root and ult are also aoe,but anyway this seems like an argument for her being a weak support(which I agree with,but for completely different reasons),hell trundle is a very strong support at the moment and as far as cc goes he "only" has his pillar(well and a minor slow on his q),what makes a support good isn't very trivial,hell take lulu for example,she's a much better mid laner than a support,even though she is very heavy on utility.

At any rate if she really is inherently a weak support(a statement which might have some merit to it),she'll just end up stronger as a mid laner,and balanced for that(it was even stated that way in the red post).

C. She also isn't healthy there, her burst is too high for a support. But if you nerf her burst for support, you kill her mid. Which will inevitably happen if they balance her for support.

This just seems random to me,why would a high burst be unhealthy? hell when I'm laning in bot I'm much more bothered by blitz's hook(or thresh's hook,or leonas e/ult) than zyra's burst,especially since her burst is telegraphed,and easier to avoid.

D. She also isn't fun to play there. I get stressed playing her support. It's probably due to stealing farm and kills. ADCs hate zyra support for reason A, ADCs will rage at me, and I will get stressed further and get upset.

ADCs hate zyra because she's not meta(and I kinda see their point there),she doesn't steal farm unless they(or she) play poorly,some people want to play carry supports who take kills(but not cs,that's trolling) why not let them? Must the game revolve around the adc and his wishes?

And the reason why I say the "why hasn't she gotten any buffs" is because I see these ridiculously unhealthy champions get buffs, while she is incredibly weak and getting very little attention.

Don't get me wrong,I completely argee with you that she is weak right now,and I definitely agree that some VERY obnoxious champions constantly get attention(like lee,or ryze,or yasuo),but riot often cares only for winrates,I'm not justfying their bs,I'm just answering your questions- zyra doesn't get buffed because her winrate is good,and in many cases(such as this one) that's all riot cares for.

Spooky Zombie1 votes

Many ADCs that I play with are not good. I should not be forced to not play her because I am in a low elo where ADCs cannot farm.

They are also a very important role in the game, which is why as a support, a majority of the game revolves around the ADC for me. It still also dont not change that she is fun to play there.

High burst there=People Complaining= Nerfs. Enough people complaining about how her burst is will result in instanerfs. Being able to almost get a double kill (if your adc isnt there) is not healthy. As a Zyra support I've almost been able to get a double kill, but I played safe and didn't try to do so. 1v2 as a SUPPORT is very unhealthy. If it were a mid laner, or a carry role, that would be okay. Not a support.

Nevertheless, she should NOT be balanced around support. Most Zyra players do not want to play her there, they simply do because thats the only place shes good. She started out as a mid lane mage, thats where she should stay. I've seen both Karma and Morgana go from these strong laners to supports, and its not a pretty sight. I loved Morgana mid, now it just isn't always viable, as well as Karma. You play those champions mid and you get raged at. I dont want this to be what happens to Zyra. Her kit is designed perfectly for mid. She is the perfect mid lane mage. She shouldn't be balanced around support because nerfs pushed here there and thats where she is now played most.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

Many ADCs that I play with are not good. I should not be forced to not play her because I am in a low elo where ADCs cannot farm.

Well if they can't farm then at least someone is getting cs...

They are also a very important role in the game, which is why as a support, a majority of the game revolves around the ADC for me.

So um,play something which can babysit the adc? Maybe support zyra just doesn't fit you?

It still also dont not change that she is fun to play there.

And why is that a bad thing?

High burst there=People Complaining= Nerfs.

People constantly complain about everything,hell,support zyra got relatively a small amount of qq last time it was dominant,ban rate definitely wasn't interesting.

Enough people complaining about how her burst is will result in instanerfs.

Have you seen what support poppy does to health bars? I don't see much of qq there,I mean people put up with blitz,I don't see a reason why they would see zyra as worse than that.

Being able to almost get a double kill (if your adc isnt there) is not healthy.

If they line themselves up and eat all of your aoe,sure it is,otherwise aoe in it's own is unhealthy,and that's just nonsense.

As a Zyra support I've almost been able to get a double kill, but I played safe and didn't try to do so. 1v2 as a SUPPORT is very unhealthy. If it were a mid laner, or a carry role, that would be okay. Not a support.

It's perfectly healthy as long as it is balanced,and since for zyra to 1v2 the enemy needs to misplay VERY HARD,it is balanced. hell that's an exaggeration,for zyra to be strong you need to let her be strong,when properly played against she is weak,not even balanced.

Nevertheless, she should NOT be balanced around support. Most Zyra players do not want to play her there, they simply do because thats the only place shes good.

Why,do you play her mostly as a support? It's just a myth these boards came up with,I constantly see this claim but it's always some mid zyra players talking for somebody else,if there really are support zyra players who prefer her mid let then say so,they are awfully silent though.

It's not just that,this whole notion that support zyra is stronger than mid zyra is a bunch of nonsense invented by people who don't play her as a support,fact of the matter is,she's terrible at both(though if you worship winrates,then she's good at both,whatever).

She started out as a mid lane mage, thats where she should stay.

Leona and blitz started as top laners,should we send them back there as well?

I've seen both Karma and Morgana go from these strong laners to supports, and its not a pretty sight. I loved Morgana mid, now it just isn't always viable, as well as Karma.

What the hell are you talking about? mid/top morgana even sees competitive play,how is that not viable? Karma is currently a stronger mid/top laner than a support as well.

You play those champions mid and you get raged at.

It's bronze,you get raged at no matter what you do. I've played karma and morgana both mid and top,never seen anyone complain about the pick.

I dont want this to be what happens to Zyra. Her kit is designed perfectly for mid. She is the perfect mid lane mage.

How so?

She shouldn't be balanced around support because nerfs pushed here there and thats where she is now played most.

The nerfs didn't really push her there,they pushed her out,zyra's bad no matter where she goes(or again,if you worship winrates,good wherever she goes,whatever).

Spooky Zombie1 votes

I really don't feel like responding to this anymore. I've stated my reasons why zyra support is not everything it's cracked up to be, and why she shouldn't be balanced as support.

You look at the "zyra mid year Mage update" board and you'll see countless people upset about the "balanced around support" sentence.

I don't want her to be balanced around support, many do not. I can't explain why I personally want her to stay mid, but I do.

I could give you facts about something and you would still find flaws in it. No matter what I say you won't be happy. I have reasons for EVERYTHING I've said. I'm done arguing about such a silly thing. She shouldn't be balance around support, end of story.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

You look at the "zyra mid year Mage update" board and you'll see countless people upset about the "balanced around support" sentence.

For all I know these people don't play zyra at all,or have 2 games on her. Playrate shows you who plays the champions,and if some people play her as a support because they feel they are forced to do so,they can speak up,but they don't,cause they don't exist.

I really don't feel like responding to this anymore. I've stated my reasons why zyra support is not everything it's cracked up to be, and why she shouldn't be balanced as support.

I don't want her to be balanced around support, many do not. I can't explain why I personally want her to stay mid, but I do.

I could give you facts about something and you would still find flaws in it. No matter what I say you won't be happy. I have reasons for EVERYTHING I've said. I'm done arguing about such a silly thing.

You know I could say the exact same thing for mid zyra,just that I would be right,and riot knows that,hence they balance her for support,and not mid.

Calabok1 votes

Grilled asparagus with butter sauce reminds me how delicious simple recipes can be

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