Magic Resist Itemization

WindfaII·Dec 10, 2018·7 votes·2,575 views

So this conversation keeps popping up between me and my friends, and I don't know how to lead into this, so I'm going to just start with stating the fact that I'm a support main, and this doesn't effect me personally too much, but it still bugs me from a design perspective and I need answers.

Why is magic resist so weak right now?

Like, I'm sure there are countless threads on this site discussing the Ability Power items, how Rabadon's gives you 40% extra AP, how Void Staff cuts MR almost in half. how Seraph's gives you every stat you want. And maybe, if only in passing, I should bring up how Adaptive Force is one for one with AP but only .6 for AD, but maybe there's a reason for that.

Like, let's start with Spirits Visage. I know for a fact that back in Season 6 it gave you a whole 70 MR, but as time goes on and AP Items just got stronger, they never reverted it back from the 55 they reduced it to, or at the very least it never stuck. And if memory serves, 70 used to be standard for MR items, a lot like Armor. And maybe back in the day there was a REASON to tune them back but I can't for the life of me recall what it was, and I don't think that it's an issue anymore. The standard for Tanky MR items is 55, which, again, if you get a Void Staff, is bumped down to 33.

Per Item.

Not to mention MR items are a bit more situational than Armor items.

Spirits Visage is made to increase self healing
Adaptive Helm reduces the damage you take repeatedly
Zz'rot, while being the best item in the game, is more so for helping create pressure
And Abyssal Mask is to help increase your own magic damage. Mask USED to be used to help your mages, making it a fairly decent item in most scenarios, but they nerfed the range to DISCOURAGE that. Seriously, the range was 700, they dropped it to 325, and ALSO decreased the damage increase!

The closest thing we had to a general Magic Resist item was nerfed out of being a general magic resist item. It still CAN work like people were using it, but it's way harder now. You can still build just about any single one of these, it's not like the effects are gate ways....but let me get to that real quick.

Now look at the Armor Items, sure they nerfed most of the values of Armor to 60, where they TOO used to be at 70 if memory serves, but with Armor Pen being swapped out for Lethality, you could argue that it goes a lot farther, not to mention fewer people BUILD Lethality. And before anyone says it, yes, I know Black Cleaver still has Armor Shred, but you have to work for it, you don't just GET IT for building an item, it's also a max of 24% instead of 40%

(And side tangent, they removed Last Whisper, reworked it into an item that went into Mortal Reminder and Lord Dominik's, then removed the extra damage against people with more help form Lord Dominik's thus making it a worse version of Last Whisper. I think the thing that tilts me the MOST about that is now I just have weaker Last Whisper that's not called that and I keep confusing all my friends when I talk about this)

And the Armor items are just WAY more flexible with builds

Sunfire, deal more damage to things nearby
Dead Man's get more move speed and a slow on your auto
Thornmail, hurt things that hurt you
Randuin's, AoE slow on an item
Frozen Heart, just reduce attack speed for things for being nearby.

I won't argue that as a whole every single MR Item is WORSE then the Armor Items, but I think that it's fairly obvious that it's easier to work Armor into builds then it is MR. You over all get MORE of it, and it's harder to get rid off.

And to add insult to injury, there are only two items in the game that exceed that 55 Magic Resist rule

Locket of the Iron Solari, primarily a support item(thank you for that), but COULD be built on just about anybody...you might get flamed but you COULD
Banshee's Veil...... One of the two items that give you MORE MR then the tank items is a Mage item. It's not even that much, it's only five more.....but COME ON Also like, Stone Plate, but you need 3 people around you and it's active cuts damage by 60%, not a whole lot of people WANT that.

Anyway, yea, that's my thoughts, I hope I spark some form of conversation instead of just letting this post at the bottom of the void

12 Comments

Moody PDec 10, 20184 votes

Because if mages aren't objectively the strongest class at all points of the game they come to board and complain

KrupazDec 13, 20183 votes

Weird way to spell "marksmen"

JeaneGreeneDec 10, 20183 votes

AP ratios are higher (and adaptive force is 1 to 1) because AP damage can only be applied on abilites, which usually cost mana and are always hated by cooldowns. AD is dealt on abilities and attacks, so naturally it must be lower (in addition to AD ratios being much higher than AP).

TomiMan7Dec 10, 20181 votes

learn to dodge.

WindfaIIDec 10, 20181 votes

I really don't see how that is at ALL a solution to anything I just said. You want me to dodge everytime I see a Mage on the enemy team? You.....you read the post rignt? I put a lot of effort into man, come on

SéanceDec 10, 20181 votes

I think he is referring to dodging mage skillshots, not matchmaking dodge.

TomiMan7Dec 11, 20181 votes

Yeah... I thought it would be obvious but as it seems it was not.

WindfaIIDec 13, 20182 votes

Yea, reading back it was fairly obvious what you meant, and I should have realized, but how is that any better of a response to anything I said? Sure, it's obvious that if you dodge the damage, it doesn't matter how much it does. But what about all the stuff you can't dodge? What about all the point and click stuff? What about AoE's? What about being in massive team fights? The damage will happen, and while I'd like to think that I've gotten pretty good at not getting hit by most skill shots, it's not like you can go through a game NOT getting hit.

TomiMan7Dec 13, 20181 votes

I would have replied but you were incompetent to realise why flex ad and ap are not 1:1. You falied to realise WHY ALL tank items were nerfed back in the day. I would have replied if you would have understood that while ap only has void to cut mr, ad have last whisper and BC, and armor SHRED and armor PENETRATION is NOT the same thing. Every point you brought up is faulty and you have no grasp on why the things work like they do.

The game needs point and click spells and/or cc otherwise low elo would be overinfested with things like yi..

First think about why things work like they do then shitpost.

WindfaIIDec 13, 20182 votes

Wow.....I am actually dumbfounded by this response, so let me break down my points, because you very obviously have no idea where the root of the issue lies. Number 1 - What do you mean you WOULD have replied? You did. I take it you mean you would have replied in more detail, but if the above post is what I would have received, thank you for refraining. Number 2 - Of COURSE the game needs CC, I never once stated that it doesn't, and while I disagree about point and click(see; every point and click ability Riot has reworked into a skill shot), I can agree that in Low ELO, it has it's place so new players can learn the ropes of the game, though your logic of "otherwise low elo would be overinfested with things like yi" is completely asinine, because it implies that it isn't already. I ONLY brought it up because it seems that your only initial response to my entire post was that all of my issues could be solved if I learned how to dodge. Number 3 - Yes, all the tank items were nerfed, and while I might not know the reason, seeing how it was four years ago and I was not nearly as invested back then as I am now, the fact they they were nerfed is not the issue, I have lived the Tank Meta, I understand. My issue lies with the sheer discrepancy in the items from Armor to MR, as I listed in the post. Number 4 - Your logic to "ap only has void to cut mr, ad have last whisper and BC, and armor SHRED and armor PENETRATION is NOT the same thing" is, firstly, just flat out WRONG, as Magic pen is in three other items, one of which is BOOTS. And secondly, just......wow, this might take a second to break down for you. Let me state something that should actually be incredibly obvious.

Void Staff can, and currently is, being built by nearly every character that uses magic damage.

Void Staff is built by mages. Void Staff is built by Assassins. Void Staff is built by some supports.

Most of the time, when you have magic damage on the enemy team, they are, by simply existing, cutting your MR in half.

Now let me ask you something. When is the last time you saw someone build a Last Whisper item? Probably been a while, seeing how about two years ago, they reworked the line into being more in line for ADC's, instead of a Flat AD item with Armor Pen. It is moronic of you to compare the two. I only mentioned it in the post to try and add some levity Flat AD is not nearly as useful as Flat AP. Champions like Riven maybe. Black Cleaver isn't as common as Void Staff either, even though it is by and large a better item then the Last Whisper tree. You need to be able to proc damage quickly enough for quick trades to shred armor. Garen, Darius, Wukong, they can all build it, as well as a couple of other characters But it's not an item extending through multiple classes like Void does.

And Lethality limited to almost 10 champions. The Lethality change made Armor Pen flat out WORSE. They did that because Armor Pen was far too strong. And yet MR itemization is weaker, and they keep buffing Magic Pen.

How about instead of stating that I don't understand this game, you try and DISPUTE those facts and examples. All I have gotten from you is a cocky attitude and general lack of understanding to basic math.

If you think I'm wrong, I'm fully open to that, but how about backing that up with any form of intelligent thought, and not just "ur dumb and don't know how to play"

Why am I wrong? I'll wait for the insults again, don't worry, take your time