Why aren't summoner's rift bots as smart as Twisted Treeline?

Bhagswag·Sep 11, 2016·40 votes·2,438 views

SR bots are downright stupid. TT bots actually pose a threat. Can we copy them into SR?

25 Comments

TTK DreadnoughtSep 11, 201611 votes

bots are horrible early game which lets you keep them behind. but if you ever bother to let them build 3-4 items, they become pretty decent just through brute strength. lol.

Blue Moon WolfSep 11, 20163 votes

I remember back in the day when a bot could actually win a match. When a bot team was getting ahead, your only option was to split push every lane and cut off their minions in the lane they were in. the person who cuts off the minions in the lane they're in, they would end up being the scapegoat so the others can push the other lanes.

Pika FoxSep 11, 20166 votes

Thats because bots had free stats and gold out the ass. Now they dont get nearly as many free stats because their AI is better.

SohleksSep 11, 20162 votes

I think the 3v3 bots actually still have lots of free extra gold unlike the ones on 5s. That's mostly why they're a lot harder.

cocacolalipsSep 13, 20161 votes

Yes; just check their items at 20 minutes. SR bots have maybe 1 item, while TT bots already have 2 almost 3. SR bots have maybe 5-6k gold on the end game screen in a 30 minutes game, while they often have 12-15K gold on TT.

Yxgl222HaXSep 11, 20161 votes

now if you have an afk the enemy bot goes afk too. Wish they diddnt it would be more realistic for newbies to have to play a few 4v5s anyway. Besides might make the game slightly more challanging... mabye? lol

Pika FoxSep 11, 20165 votes

TT is a much smaller map, so its easier to code AI for to have them rotate and deal with things id assume.

S0kaXSep 11, 20162 votes

It would really make them better to practice against, most of the times the SR bots just follow me until they reach turret range and if I have some sort of push I push them in turret and free kill T_T

Garlic ButterSep 12, 20161 votes

certain champion bots will dive you or kill you and then flash out of turret range tho (or flash ult you if annie, GP parley, etc), depends on which ones you are facing and their "age." Blitzcrank and Leblanc can both fire their Q and E respectively through minion waves and always hit you (there is internal commands for you to do this as well anyway they just make maximum use of the game's tech, and their 0 ms and perfect reaction time) and then full combo, if you aren't tanky enough to take it they get fed and win very quickly, newer champs can be even more brutal plus they can all build removed items that were exclusive to TT as well, depending on their age.

underscores222Sep 11, 20162 votes

TT has higher gold efficiency items, so the bots can get an advantage earlier, which means you have less time to pound them into useless lumps and push lanes before they become problematic.

R FLASH XDSep 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

TT has higher gold efficiency items, so the bots can get an advantage earlier, which means you have less time to pound them into useless lumps and push lanes before they become problematic.

So, play Riven/Fiora and kill them at level 1

underscores222Sep 12, 20161 votes

I was just saying, it might be one reason bots seem stronger on TT

Garlic ButterSep 12, 20162 votes

TT lets bots build items that no longer exist as well (most of which are stupidly powerful) and they have stats and buffs to champions that are not present on SR (you also suffer these debuffs and some buffs when playing certain champs on TT, and no they aren't mentioned anywhere except the specific patch notes they were introduced in ages ago, BUT any nerfs are not applied to the TT bots and additionally bots have additional buffs and gold income, IF someone on your team actually feeds them the power level gets insane quickly due to the increased efficiency they have).

Power level wise they are VERY strong but are easily countered as they have AI patterns (though it is technically against the ToS to abuse your knowledge of their patterns and exploit them). There are also fewer lanes and fewer champions they have to "process" talking to. Also please remember ALL AI bots have total map vision at all times but have a code that tells them when and when not they are allowed to "act upon that knowledge" and occasionally the code slips up, this "protection" only exists vs summoners rift bots and custom game modes and was not implemented on TT bots. (this is one of the reasons TT vs AI always gives full IP and xp without any DRs at any point)

Personally I would rather see Co OP vs AI 5s with another difficultly level as a standard of vs Doom Bots (aka intro, beginner, intermediate, "hard/advanced/doom") where they get cheaty items (best items possible for each champ assigned, including the op stuff like the cursed tome's dot, blackfire grasp like on TT/DFG/etc) as well, and some kind of buff to all their abilities (put them on urf mode, or let champs like lux fire laser in all directions, a spiraling set of 8 morgana Qs, ziggs throwing 8 bombs in the cardinal directions, etc), but this would detract from the profitable game modes and require intensive server tech and upgrades, in order to support it at all levels/all the time.

Princess EmmaSep 11, 20161 votes

Love Twisted Treeline bots, but the secondary reason that they stay relevant is because they have high gold generation, so they will never fall behind on items.

You can push a bot out on Summoner's Rift each time they come to lane, and they probably wont have more than 2 or 3 components, but do the same to Twisted Treeline bots, and they will still have a completed item and THEN some.

Compare total gold in the post match screen, and you can see that a bot could be 0/10/0 with 15 CS, but they will not be far behind on gold.

Livin like RivenSep 11, 20161 votes

IKR, I've got a friend who used to play, but then just only got on for Treeline bot matches for first win. He told me he was only on for one while he played, but then invited me to another and said the bots beat him. I laughed at him, but holy shit, I'm going top from bot and all of a sudden there's Brand, Veigar and some other bot just chain CCing me from a bush and bursting me into oblivion. I was actually really surprised.

CatastropSep 11, 20161 votes

Another thing is newer bots in general are way smarter. Gangplank Volibear are actual legit threats.

SohleksSep 11, 20161 votes

Yeah but fizz bot is awwwwwful x3

He goes bot lane on the 5v5 map and feeds free sushi harder than any other bots ever

Dr PoroSep 11, 20161 votes

When I play a bot game with a lvl 1 friend, it's always the Annie bot that snowballs.

Jet SettSep 11, 20161 votes

I THOUGHT THERE WAS PUN!

SohleksSep 11, 20161 votes

It's simpler to program 3 bots to play 2 lanes vs. 3 players than it is to program 5 bots to play 3 lanes vs. 5 players.

The 3v3 bots also get retarded amounts of passive gold unlike the 5v5 ones for some reason. Most of the difficulty is from that. And the simpler map overall.

I noticed the 3v3 bots actually do a decent job of rotating between two lanes. The thing is it's easier to program that well there because the distance is smaller and there's only 1 other lane.

Garlic ButterSep 12, 20161 votes

they actually invade the jungle and gank as 3 quite often in my experience if they are ahead at all or have a tower down. Sometimes they play so good I am suspect GM's take over control of the NPCs and play them, but then again computers have 0 ms and perfection reaction times and access to WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO BEFORE YOU DO IT (on your screen) in order to dodge, but coded to not always act on it.

I've noticed, even vs beginner bots (which have less bonus stats) they have similar AI and when your allies feed the duo lane they become pretty unstoppable, it becomes very hard to comeback if not playing one of the OP on TT 1v3 champs.

Dr PoroSep 11, 20161 votes

Are we talking about beginner, intermediate or both?