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A rational post on why the cooldown timer on Taliyah's ultimate is too long.

Mummified Walker··5 votes·2,887 views

I personally believe that the cooldown timer on Taliyah's ultimate "Weaver's Wall" is too long for a variety different aspects that usually are indicators on why it has a lengthy cooldown. Also yes, I have had experience with Taliyah on the PBE.

First Indicator: An ultimate that can deal damage. Second Indicator: An ultimate that can provide mobility. Third Indicator: An ultimate that provides crowd control. Fourth Indicator: The ultimate is global in range. Fifth Indicator: The ultimate affects teammates in a positive manner(1). Sixth Indicator: The ultimate provides sight to reveal enemies? Seventh Indicator: The ultimate is hard to avoid outside of invulnerability-based effects. (1) = Heals/buffs/resurrections/etc.

However there are sometimes drawbacks to such ultimate which help give them a lower cooldown in exchange. An example of this is Draven 's Whirling Death ultimate. As the axes from this ultimate deal less damage the more units it hits.

So what is the cooldown timer on Weaver's Wall? 160/140/120 seconds. Can it deal damage? No. Does it provide mobility? Yes. Does it provide crowd control? No. Is it global in range? No. Does the ultimate affect teammates in a posistive manner? 50/50(1). Does it reveal enemies? Around the wall only. Is it hard to avoid outside of invulnerability-based effects? No. (1) = A very lengthy wall (3000/4500/6000 units in length) that just like an ultimate from Bard can potentially make or break a teamfight. It also allows her to get to teamfights and objectives faster.

So what are the drawbacks of her ultimate? 1) She can be knocked off her ultimate by enemy champions and when knocked off she is pulled towards their direction. 2) This ultimate has a 1 second delay. 3) The ultimate reveals her presence on the minimap. 4) The ultimate provides a global audio cue to ALL players. 5) No cooldown refund if interrupted during the channel time. 6) It is not blink-based.

Ultimates that are similar in terms of mobility:

TwistedFate 's Destiny Gate. 180/150/120 cooldown timer. TahmKench 's Abyssal Voyage. 120/110/100 cooldown timer. Pantheon 's Grand Skyfall. 150/135/120 cooldown timer.

Abilties that function similarly in terms of mobility: AurelionSol 's Comet of Legend. 60/55/50/45/40 cooldown timer. Except it doesn't reveal him in the same way as it does for Taliyah and it doesn't provide a global audio cue.

Which is how I myself am perplexed about this. As logically speaking here, the ultimate's cooldown has barely anything that warrants such a lengthy cooldown timer. It doesn't damage, it has several drawbacks, it does not provide any buffs/heals, it does not provide crowd control.

So I am just left here thinking that her ultimate in my 100% honest opinion should have a much lower cooldown timer such as 80/70/60. As the length of the timer is something more akin to a Taric or Soraka or Gangplank because of the extremely strong benefits they provide to fellow teammates in a teamfight; the latter two because they can provide support from anywhere on the map and still have a presence in a teamfight.

Hopefully this was satisfactory in terms of my reasoning on why her cooldown timer on Taliyah's ultimate "Weaver's Wall" is too lengthy for what it actually does. :)

P.S: As for why her ultimate does zero damage, thats easy. I will provide ZenonTheStoic's reasoning on why her ultimate does no damage as he is after all Taliyah's gameplay designer.

http://i.imgur.com/ElIk3sU.png

13 Comments

jr deputy meow1 votes

the thing is that neither TF's ult, nor pantheon's, nor Tahm Kench's create a big wall across the rift (also, pantheon's MEDIOCRE SKYHOP/glorified puddle-jump cooldown is almost definitely way too long for how much they've nerfed it) so far, after playing taliyah extensively on the PBE, i'm not currently of the opinion that the cooldown is a massive outlier for what it does would i be willing to see buffs to it? sure, and i don't think they would be game breaking but i don't think they're totally necessary either

Iceborn Pippin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=jr deputy meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PUkm3J8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-13T20:57:49.610+0000)

the thing is that neither TF's ult, nor pantheon's, nor Tahm Kench's create a big wall across the rift (also, pantheon's MEDIOCRE SKYHOP/glorified puddle-jump cooldown is almost definitely way too long for how much they've nerfed it) so far, after playing taliyah extensively on the PBE, i'm not currently of the opinion that the cooldown is a massive outlier for what it does would i be willing to see buffs to it? sure, and i don't think they would be game breaking but i don't think they're totally necessary either

Quite true. However TF's utimate provides global vision of all enemies in addition to a teleport. Tahm's provides all of his teammates with a mode of transportation across the rift, it also deals damage. Pantheon's also deals a significant amount of damage upon landing in addition to the lengths he can travel with it.

I feel like the OP is talking about the fact that yes a very long wall of 3000/4500/6000 units is grand and that it lasts for 6/7/8 seconds is wonderful. However outside of the mobility and wall it provides, when coupled with the innate drawbacks it has, lack of damage, etc... its cooldown shouldn't be as high as it is. As Taliyah's ultimate is very much a utility-based ultimate. Supports often have utility-based ultimates but they also tend to be on a much lower cooldown OR provide group benefits for the team OR they deal damage and hinder the enemy.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iceborn Pippin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PUkm3J8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-13T21:09:26.610+0000)

OR provide group benefits for the team

Like arriving from a massive distance away with a wall to stop the enemy from closing in on your team

OR they... hinder the enemy.

Like arriving from a massive distance away with your disruptor kit and walling off the enemy so they can't escape?

21028037DEL11 votes

To be fair, Supports have a much lower impact on the game in terms of damage. Supports trade all of their damage for utility (there are exceptions, such as Annie, Zyra, Brand, etc. but those champions do not have the utility ultimates we are referring to). Therefore, they need to be able to ult more quickly than damage dealers to stay relevant in team fights and skirmishes.

Quepha1 votes

I think you are dramatically understating the power of that wall. It walls off an entire lane and then some, completely changing the scope of a fight.

Iceborn Pippin2 votes

{quoted}

I think you are dramatically understating the power of that wall. It walls off an entire lane and then some, completely changing the scope of a fight.

The wall's length/width is not the issue. Its the cooldown timer being lengthy. Also, a well placed Azir wall or Anivia wall or Trundle pillar can change the scope of a fight and have about the same width as Taliyah's wall.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iceborn Pippin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PUkm3J8,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-13T21:23:14.216+0000)

The wall's length/width is not the issue. Its the cooldown timer being lengthy. Also, a well placed Azir wall or Anivia wall or Trundle pillar can change the scope of a fight and have about the same width as Taliyah's wall.

Yes, it is an issue, because as the length of the wall increases so does its impact on the game. An ability with an impact of that strength needs to be gated by an appropriate cooldown.

Iceborn Pippin1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it is an issue, because as the length of the wall increases so does its impact on the game. An ability with an impact of that strength needs to be gated by an appropriate cooldown.

If Taliyah turns out to be underpowered on her release, ZenonTheStoic himself stated he will look into lowering the cooldown of her ultimate in addition to other buffs to her.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iceborn Pippin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PUkm3J8,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-13T22:04:55.989+0000)

If Taliyah turns out to be underpowered on her release, ZenonTheStoic himself stated he will look into lowering the cooldown of her ultimate in addition to other buffs to her.

Yeah. IF. Based on observations on live servers where the rest of her kit turns out not to be strong or reliable enough to justify her as a pick. Then the cooldown would be considered as a possibility alongside many other possibilities for her.

Boulderox3 votes

that is true but plenty of mobility abilities can just make it useless :/

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

that is true but plenty of mobility abilities can just make it useless :/

spending someone's flash is hardly useless.

Nilok1 votes

Useless no... unless you are stuck on the other side of the wall and they are able to escape.

Taking a flash is good, but I'm not sure if it is worth the cost of an ultimate that has that long of a cd.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

Useless no... unless you are stuck on the other side of the wall and they are able to escape.

Taking a flash is good, but I'm not sure if it is worth the cost of an ultimate that has that long of a cd.

Spending a 3 minute cooldown ultimate for a 5 minute cooldown flash is Ten hundred percent WORTH.

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