Can Irelia mid with her new kit now?

Tiny Kip·Mar 20, 2018·9 votes·11,942 views

I mostly saw Irelia top with her old kit, was just curious if her new kit opened her up to mid laning now or not. Seems her shield will basically stop any mid lane burst mages from doing much.

49 Comments

SuperspickMar 20, 20187 votes

100% she can mid now. Before, you had to rely on minions to make plays and mid lane mages could waveclear your waves too fast for their minions to both get low HP (because you would have needed the Q reset to get anything done) and remain in range for you to Q to the creep and begin attacking them.

Now, she can engage when she chooses to, not unlike Ekko and Kat with one huge exception - she can stun the squishy mages from range, which marks them and enables her to Q engage directly on them since the mark resets Q. She would then have W to block burst/CC, her autos and passive for damage and a second, possibly third Q depending on the E cooldown to fight with.

Now, if they hit her numbers so hard that she can't burst at all, then probably only into shit like Galio or other melee mids. Or if her cooldowns are too high.

Tiny KipMar 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

100% she can mid now. Before, you had to rely on minions to make plays and mid lane mages could waveclear your waves too fast for their minions to both get low HP (because you would have needed the Q reset to get anything done) and remain in range for you to Q to the creep and begin attacking them.

Now, she can engage when she chooses to, not unlike Ekko and Kat with one huge exception - she can stun the squishy mages from range, which marks them and enables her to Q engage directly on them since the mark resets Q. She would then have W to block burst/CC, her autos and passive for damage and a second, possibly third Q depending on the E cooldown to fight with.

Now, if they hit her numbers so hard that she can't burst at all, then probably only into shit like Galio or other melee mids. Or if her cooldowns are too high.

That would be a shame. Swain came out so weak, hope she doesn't. They get to scared a champion rework or release is going to be to strong, and then they either over nerf them like Zoe, or they leave them in the dirt like Kai'Sa who is so poor to play right now. She even looked awesome and I was so excited but even challengers find her underwhelming to play. Hopefully Irelia isn't so weak she has to take 3-4 patches to settle ._.

VekknaMar 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=EliteFour Dalton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0KqysRNo,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-03-20T21:10:24.645+0000)

That would be a shame. Swain came out so weak, hope she doesn't. They get to scared a champion rework or release is going to be to strong, and then they either over nerf them like Zoe, or they leave them in the dirt like Kai'Sa who is so poor to play right now. She even looked awesome and I was so excited but even challengers find her underwhelming to play. Hopefully Irelia isn't so weak she has to take 3-4 patches to settle ._.

The AP Kai'sa buffs in the patch notes are huge. Nashor's + DCap, and your passive + Q + W are doing 910 damage from the AP ratios alone, before any execute damage, aa AD damage, or ability base damage.

Then the extra synergy from the new Rageblade AP multiplier is going to make her snowball hard as fuck.

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

Do not build deathcap on Kai'Sa. But now I say it should be ability power marksman style with Nashor's Tooth, Rageblade, and Gunblade for the sustain. You may road it off with Hurricane and Essence Reaver or you could go more ability power if you really wanted to, but get the items that promote a marksman play style first, and you can do this in the duo-lane since she is very gold reliant and not at all level reliant.

Flawless FetusMar 21, 20181 votes

Swain came out strong af. I one tricked him to diamond - before the buffs. Now he's op af and will be getting nerfed in patch 8.7. Lol.

SuperspickMar 21, 20181 votes

No honestly dood, she's currently -too- strong, imo, due to her AP scalings COMBINED with the ease of using them.

I think they need to be toned down because currently, she's also a better AP assassin than some actual AP Assassins due to her mobility and her damage reduction.

Frankly, she's like Galio before his Q scaling got reduced - didn't look that bad on paper, then we saw one Q clearing entire waves with total ease, deleting CC'd champions in a single cast etc.

Midrelia will likely max E except in melee MUs, maybe even then. It's the most reliable way to mark enemies and gets all the things with each rank: lower CD, more damage and longer stun duration.

Oh, and Skarner + the cadre of pull supports will be -awesome- with Irelia lol.

UnvictusMar 21, 20181 votes

I think taking her mid is an option, but her upfront damage/ burst is still not as high as other assassins such as kat or ekko. The ratios just aren't there. Don't get me wrong you could still build her typical bruiser items such as trinity/steraks/titanic/maw into tanky items but i just think she will still be much better top lane. If anything I see her being played jungle before mid. Her E can stun and mark large monsters and she can use her q on AOE camps to get stacks of her passive to give her attack speed and clear quickly. Her E could be pretty good for gank setup as well.

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

She has super strong waveclear with W+E and you want to max Q last now, Q can clean up the low health minions quickly too if you do not one shot yet, but with enough ability power she can. I take the utility of her stun and ultimate with the strong waveclear over burst damage any day, also Irelia only has one way in and no way out, so she function like Diana. But if you build ability power and land your shit then you can burst out squishies easily enough with your remaining basic attacks.

NixtarmaMar 20, 20185 votes

It looks like she'll have a decent shot in 2v1s, and with her mobility, I'd say it seems plausible, if situational.

LapisMar 21, 20182 votes

Probably, but what I want is know is can she support?

PoskeMar 21, 20182 votes

As an ADC yasuo main. Mid is not what I am interested in with irelia

PhantomPranksterMar 21, 20182 votes

she could always mid, irelia carries u was someone who did it a lot

GodlyBaneMar 20, 20181 votes

a stun, good defensive into offensive W, good slow and dmg on R, yep! she can mid (high mobility as well)

RainbowIceeMar 20, 20181 votes

depends on the match up. Example you can play Nocturne mid fairly well but there's some match ups that just don't favor him.

DauthiSlayerMar 20, 20181 votes

she can mid now on occasion, she is particularly good against lissandra and syndra. She also can jungle, just her clear is slow, but, she stays healthy with her w, no, she is more of a I can work against xx stuff, fairly niche. doesn't look like she can jungle with the updated kit.

VekknaMar 20, 20181 votes

Her ratios are really interesting. Obviously, item 3078 item 3053 are going to be super strong, but she could legitimately pick up Zhonya's, Gunblade, Liandry's, Rylai's, Proto, etc.

UnvictusMar 21, 20181 votes

She did have a few AP ratios before and nobody really built her ap. I could maybe see people doing a gunblade into lichbane build, but i just dont think it will be that common or good compared to Trinity and Steraks like she builds now.

VekknaMar 21, 20181 votes

I was thinking more like trinity, sterak, and then something like Liandry's and Rylai's for more hp

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

Because it was on her ult and a single target stun... now it is on three abilities, all with strong AP ratios, and all of them are AoE!

Ability Power mid will be the way to go, she is very strong and has strong waveclear with ability power, range wave clear is what you need for the mid lane.

UnvictusMar 21, 20181 votes

Using your main defensive skill and your stun for waveclear (both of which don’t have the shortest of cooldowns) doesn’t sound optimal by any means. but hey, you do you.

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

It is a trade off between using your spells for wave clear or save them for a fight, but the cooldown are average, they are not long nor short, which is probably why they pack a huge punch for landing them properly.

If you are looking to wave clear then you are not looking to fight at that moment anyways, also you are going to want to build CDR.

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

Nashor's Tooth, Gunblade, Rageblade, Deathcap, Luden's Echo, Lich Bane... why bother with Rylai's when you have a stun and slow...

VekknaMar 21, 20181 votes

Adding a slow to W would make it super easy to hit E, then jump to mark with Q. Maybe not ideal, but it's still a fairly cheap item with 300 hp

NineTailedMysticMar 20, 20181 votes

I hope not.

EnderZenithMar 21, 20181 votes

she could of mid with her old kit, but idk about rework. Looks solid tho

KüramaMar 21, 20181 votes

She could top, jungle, mid and support with her old kit, this will hopefully remain.

Mandalorian 117Mar 21, 20181 votes

Riot did say they were going to try and make champions that could be used in multiple lanes. Kai'sa was an example of this (even though she might need some tweaking) so it makes sense that they wanted to do this to Irelia too.

StaconaMar 21, 20182 votes

Kai'Sa only duo-lane. She does not need exp, only gold for her very expensive items, and then she takes over the game. But next patch she is definitely going to become League of Legend's premiere ability power marksman with Nashor's Tooth, Rageblade, and Gunblade. I always wanted more ability power marksmen other than just Teemo.

Mandalorian 117Mar 21, 20181 votes

I just realized teemo is one of the few (if not he only) ap marksman. So yea, I would like to see ap Kai’sa becoming more of a thing, and I’d like to see more.

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

There is Kayle too, but Teemo is always ranged from the start of the game, Kai'Sa is even better at it since her on-hit damage is on her passive (even though Teemo could have Toxic Shot and his invisibility for his passive and have a proper ability for his E, but balance control by doing this since you have the damage based on Teemo's level and items).

Double the Q AP ratio, 10% more AP for evolved W, and 10% more AP on-hit with the changes to Rageblade to give 10%AP scaling for its on-hit damage and % AP boost for the stacking mechanic makes going Nashor's Tooth, Rageblade, Gunblade build a whole lot better and you can fine tune the build after that to your personal preference. benefits to split damage type champions is that they do not need to build penetration since it is half effective, so they can get a better item in its place (if you get any pen it would be void staff because that is where your % damage is).

I like ability power marksmen the best because you can change up their playstyle a little bit more, they still are basic attackers, but just that little change makes them unique like Teemo has his poison damage and Kai'Sa has her 5 hit proc on top of on-hit damage, Teemo also offers a shit ton of vision and map control with mushrooms (I am surprised pro players do not pick Teemo in the duo-lane as a utility marksman, really control areas with the mushrooms), Teemo can do the same build but with a Liandry's Torment fit in somewhere as well for more shroom damage and amps your own basic attack damage as well with the increasing magic damage effect, Teemo and Kai'Sa both have some insane hyper scaling with their items.

Other part with ability power marksmen is that they can offer more unique build paths / end game builds rather than crit marksmen where they all have the same build but the zeal item changes based on the champion. Crit damage needs to get changed to +50% from +100% (IE crits being 50% increase still, so to +75% from +150%) and offer more crit chance on the items, move the damage more into sustain damage territory and less bursty so they are focused on killing tanks rather than other squishies, that or make crit do a constantly stacking damage for a short duration so their damage is back ended forcing them to auto a single target a lot more before they take that target down and still kill tanks since the damage keeps increasing for that combat. I have issues with crit marksmen and being able to burst squishies, mostly a problem with infinity edge and it being too good even as a stand alone item.

IfnethMar 21, 20181 votes

Nitpick: Teemo is not a Marksman but a Specialist.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Teemo

Linna ExcelMar 21, 20181 votes

There's always Kayle

BârdMar 21, 20181 votes

Two forms of waveclear?

High damage?

Nice utility?

Yeah she can mid.

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

Three forms of wave clear, between W+E for AoE damage at a good range and Q to reset clean up minions, can even use the low health backline minions to stack up your passive and then go for harassment. I think she is going to be played as an ability power middle lane diver/initiator, Lissandra is pretty good at that as well, you can get 100% damage reduction with enough ability power (it hard caps at 100% obviously), so you can use your W and possibly hourglass to stall for your E to come back up. But she is really good with max CDR, mana, and a lot of ability power - build Nashor's Tooth for her passive synergy and Q, Rageblade also very strong, and Gunblade if you want better dueling potential with the sustain, but all of these items can go with a full ability power build.

Since you are melee you probably be building a little more defense than offense, unless you really want to go for assassination.

StaconaMar 21, 20181 votes

I have a PBE and she can mid fine, she has REALLY strong waveclear and you can go pretty ability heavy. W is 100% AP physical damage when fully charged and it has decent range on it, E has a 240+90% AP when maxed and does magic damage, that is the stun as well and has good range for waveclear, and can clean up the wave with Q resets which you do not need to max until last now, W+E better to max.

Ultimate is +70%AP and another +70%AP if they run into the wall for the slow and disarm for 2 seconds.

Passive has no ratio at all and Q only has something like a 65% AD ratio or something like that. W AD Ratio is 45-65% based on rank and doubled when fully charge.

Items like Nashor's Tooth, Gunblade, Rageblade are all good items, giving attack speed and AP, she is pretty good with going AP heavy with some attack speed for the passive. Feels good like an AP assassin with actual strong waveclear and utility for teamfights, but she does require quite a bit of gold before she can really get rolling. Also you can get to 100% damage reduction with enough ability power (caps at +35% DR from the ratios, base is 45%-65% based on rank)

She actually is a whole lot more fun now and really has floating blades notice-able in her kit, going ability power I guess makes her more like Diana since she wants Nashor's Tooth, mana, and CDR and she only has a way in and a way to reset her dash by landing her E.

jocomotionMar 21, 20181 votes

She’s like the perfect combo of a battlemage and a skirmisher, so I can see it working.

nachocheeseeeeeMar 21, 20181 votes

Wait correct if I'm wrong, but I don't see anywhere in her kit that states that she "gains a shield." She just deals extra damage to "shielded enemies."

Flawless FetusMar 21, 20181 votes

her W is what they're referencing. It's not a shield in the traditional sense, it's more like braum's "shield".

Serika ZeroMar 21, 20181 votes

It depends on her numbers and cooldowns.

Lets see what other melees can play in mid lane well: Akali Diana Ekko Fizz Galio Gangplank Gragas Kassadin Katarina Talon Yasuo Zed

As you can see, most of them are assassins with high mobility. They are able to push the lane hard with their low cooldowns abilities (assuming there's no enemy in lane to stop them, or they got kill pressure) which allows them to roam freely more easily. The exception to this would be gankplank, but he has global pressure with his ult.

Everyone else has either low cds or an easy time dealing with waves (gp needs trinity to have an easy time dealing with waves). So, it depends a lot on irelia's numbers regarding: her mana consumption on Q, her mana consumption on E and how much damage her E and Q are doing. As well as their cooldown.

If she could push the mid lane as fast as a Fizz using E on a minion wave, or Zed going WEQ. Then she can definitely mid, otherwise, she can't really be expected to be an usual mid pick. This is what mid lane is often about: Wave clear, Wave push, Roaming.

ChaddyFantomeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0KqysRNo,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-03-21T09:34:27.335+0000)

It depends on her numbers and cooldowns.

Lets see what other melees can play in mid lane well:

As you can see, most of them are assassins with high mobility. They are able to push the lane hard with their low cooldowns abilities (assuming there's no enemy in lane to stop them, or they got kill pressure) which allows them to roam freely more easily. The exception to this would be gankplank, but he has global pressure with his ult.

Everyone else has either low cds or an easy time dealing with waves (gp needs trinity to have an easy time dealing with waves). So, it depends a lot on irelia's numbers regarding: her mana consumption on Q, her mana consumption on E and how much damage her E and Q are doing. As well as their cooldown.

If she could push the mid lane as fast as a Fizz using E on a minion wave, or Zed going WEQ. Then she can definitely mid, otherwise, she can't really be expected to be an usual mid pick. This is what mid lane is often about: Wave clear, Wave push, Roaming.

Talon doesnt play well mid.

Serika ZeroMar 21, 20183 votes

According to OP.gg http://na.op.gg/champion/talon/statistics/mid

Talon has the 6th top win rate for mid laners, at 52% His top lane self is not even played enough to earn a spot in "places played".

Talon did have a few patches where he was played top a lot, but now he is back to mid. But I do understand your skepticism, since he was popular top for a while, still I don't think top talon existed at all in s8 or preseason 8.

Anyway, its the same principle, easy wave clear/wave push into roaming. Irelia might have that with E E, Q Q Q Q Q Q. But the mana cost for such a feat might be to high for her to be able to be played mid except specific heavy counter match-ups.

ChaddyFantomeMar 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0KqysRNo,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T15:27:51.576+0000)

According to OP.gg http://na.op.gg/champion/talon/statistics/mid

Talon has the 6th top win rate for mid laners, at 52% His top lane self is not even played enough to earn a spot in "places played".

Talon did have a few patches where he was played top a lot, but now he is back to mid. But I do understand your skepticism, since he was popular top for a while, still I don't think top talon existed at all in s8 or preseason 8.

Anyway, its the same principle, easy wave clear/wave push into roaming. Irelia might have that with E E, Q Q Q Q Q Q. But the mana cost for such a feat might be to high for her to be able to be played mid except specific heavy counter match-ups.

I am actually a Talon main, so i was speaking more from the perspective of an active player. These statistics must have changed recently since he was much lower on the list last i checked.

Serika ZeroMar 24, 20182 votes

fair enough bro, I do agree with you that talon isn't in a very good spot for him right now and that he is having a hard time

Danni ChimesMar 21, 20181 votes

Come to bronze and try it out.*

*that's what everyone else does

Teridax68Mar 21, 20181 votes

Part of why Irelia couldn't mid beforehand was because, until level 6, she had no range, and had to go all-in just to be able to have any impact on her laning opponent. Now that both her W and E are ranged, and allow her to Q in and out without getting a kill in-between, she has much more range than before from the get-go. As mentioned in the OP, she also has a phenomenal anti-burst tool, so from the looks of it she seems pretty well-equipped to go mid, though she also seems able to go top and jungle as well.

Funkin DunkinMar 21, 20181 votes

Her new kit she would probably be oppressive in the bot lane since her ultimate removes the ability to auto-attack. AD be damned.

Malix FarwinMar 21, 20181 votes

Makes sense she can also mid, they are trying to open up more lanes for champs and a rework is the perfect situation to do that

big boi edriMar 21, 20181 votes

Hell I don’t see why not, Sion can do it.

IfnethMar 21, 20181 votes

I hope not. I don’t see how to win lane against her as any immobile, squishy mage. She can dash away from skillshots and ganks, clear the wave at range, stun an AOE at range, and have kill all-in threat from level 3 or even level 2. She can even negate all-in burst.

I really hope she doesn’t become a second Yasuo.