Tank items are a joke and needs buff'd randuins only give -15% att spd for 1 second that is a joke. there no point to even build tank items on a tank just build all dmg and there kit will do the rest. its pointless only tank items ppl should build is ga and hourglass. fix this cancer please riot.
The thigh guy18 votesI mean. That happens when only 3 defensive items work anymore.
And go figure. None of them are items tanks can use very well.
Saezio2 votesOMG SO BIASED.
ALSO WORKS. AS WELL AS 
:)
The thigh guy2 votesOMG SO BIASED.
:)
GA is team dependent.
Seraphs is a joke. Item doesn’t come online until atleast 15 minutes. In a game where the winner is decided at 10
Keiaga7 votesYou're factually wrong and you don't know how to play tanks
AronCartman3 votesTl;dr of op
Z3SIeeper7 votesLiterally wait 1 month. Tanks are coming back.
Or just play Nunu jungle.
Abibyama II1 votesBack to abusing Maokai again >:]
Season 10 here I come
Moody P1 votesa large selection of tanks are good and im not sure why we are saying otherwise
boricCentaur16 votesTank items are fine. The majority of top laners build them and lot of jgs too. Also ignoring the fact tanks have been op this season like nunu despite them ONLY being good with tank items.
Go and play tanks since you clearly don't.
Mihalikb17 votesWut. Majority of top laners build tank items? Wut.
Are you counting Death's Dance, Steraks, Deadman's and Zhonya's as tank items?
The only tank item that is fairly regularly built is Spirit Visage. And mostly because its passive has good synergy with Conq users and any Champs that have healing in their kits and runes.
Usually built as 3rd or 4th item.
Unless you are Mundo, then you can build it as 2nd item.
boricCentaur14 votesSo you clearly haven't been playing for seasons apparently. Like the last time Irelia was op this season there were so many post about her being able to go full tank.
Like garen,darius and renekton all build 2 or 3 ad item then full tank. Actually most top laners do that. Fiora in some cases does that.
Like go and actually play the game.
LordGeovanni3 votesBy op this season you mean in a decent place last season. No Fighter player wants to build defensive items they just have to because they will be instagibbed. They still are for the most part when they build defensive items some times they get to run away and recall to base.
boricCentaur11 votesBy op this season you mean in a decent place last season. No Fighter player wants to build defensive items they just have to because they will be instagibbed. They still are for the most part when they build defensive items some times they get to run away and recall to base.
Nothing you said made any sense. I never listed any fighters other then fiora which is why I said in some cases.
Like how about you give a argument and not nonsense please.
Also irelia was op this season at the start and after that mini rework THAT IS WHY SHE WAS NERFED.
Kovorix2 votes2 or 3 ad item then full tank.
So building 50/50 or more towards damage. Yes sounds like full tank.
boricCentaur12 votesSo building 50/50 or more towards damage. Yes sounds like full tank.
? Do you don't understand how English works? Since I never said they go full tank.
Kovorix2 votes2 or 3 ad item then full tank.
I guess you are just stupid then?
boricCentaur12 votesI guess you are just stupid then?
So you don't understand English got it. Going full tank and building 2 items then full tank are two different things.
When I use "then" it means next since the next items are tank, using the word full means complete. Meaning after those items it is only tank items that is how English works.
I can't tell if you're actually trolling or just don't understand how English works.
Kovorix3 votesNot my fault you are a moron using the term "full tank" wrong.
boricCentaur12 votesNot my fault you are a moron using the term "full tank" wrong.
???? THAT IS HOW ENGLISH WORKS. I'm not using in wrong you just don't understand English.
ArtumisPrime2 votesLike garen,darius and renekton all build 2 or 3 ad item then full tank. Actually most top laners do that.
Most games END at 2 or 3 items.
boricCentaur11 votesMost games END at 2 or 3 items.
30 mins is the average time I'm going to say no. Maybe 3 items but they'll start building the 4th and is doesn't change the fact they're still building tank items.
ArtumisPrime3 votesAverage game times only crest 30 mins in bronze, silver, and gold (and that's excluding surrenders)
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations
I'll get to your proof on the other comment now. Will take a few mins.
boricCentaur11 votesAverage game times only crest 30 mins in bronze, silver, and gold (and that's excluding surrenders)
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations
I'll get to your proof on the other comment now. Will take a few mins.
That still makes the average game time 30 mins since the majority of people are in low elo. Like again by the time 30 mins hits you're building your 4th item if not you're a support or losing really bad.
Maybe if you played you would know that.
ArtumisPrime2 votesCS numbers would also be garbage at those elos. As such, I doubt low elo people are hitting their 4th item at 30 minutes. I mean, you're barely getting past your 4th (4.5 items-ish) item with perfect CS at 30 mins.
And, sure. The majority of the playerbase is Silver/Gold, but the average game time is still lower than 30 minutes (if only just) even there if you include surrenders.
Saezio4 votesThese are not tanks you mention. And we are talking about rushing tank items. Not buying them when the game is almost over anyway.
boricCentaur11 votesThese are not tanks you mention. And we are talking about rushing tank items. Not buying them when the game is almost over anyway.
Yeah no. Nunu,poppy, shen and ornn are all pretty good and guess what THEY BUILD PURE TANK.
Also no, who the fuck is talking about rushing item. You are just lying to justify your shit reason.
ArtumisPrime9 votesThe majority of top laners do NOT build tank items.
boricCentaur11 votesThe majority of top laners do NOT build tank items.
Wow no proof. It's almost like you have none.
ArtumisPrime7 votesOkay. I've given up providing proof to people who don't ask for it because the majority of boards users ignore it anyway, so it's not worth my time. Since you asked for it, here you go.
The top 20 most picked top laners in Plat+ are, in order
Source: https://u.gg/lol/tier-list?role=top
Now, if we look at each individual champion's item purchases and do not factor hybrid damage/defensive items (except Sterak's. We'll count Sterak's as a pseudo tank item for now.) 7, or 35%, build pure damage
https://u.gg/lol/champions/teemo/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/mordekaiser/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/vladimir/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/akali/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/ryze/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/tryndamere/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/kayle/pro-build
Of the remaining 13 champions, 5, or 25%, build only Sterak's as a "tank" item.
https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/gangplank/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/camille/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/pantheon/pro-build
https://u.gg/lol/champions/fiora/pro-build
Still no proper tank items at all in this list. That's 12, 60%, without a single REAL tank item.
Of the remaining on that list, there are some who do build actual tank items....but at incredibly low rates.
builds 
both at 3% completion rate, and full damage/hybrids otherwise. https://u.gg/lol/champions/renekton/pro-build
builds at 4% completion rate, and full damage/hybrids otherwise. https://u.gg/lol/champions/jax/pro-build
builds at 2% completion rate, and full damage/hybrids otherwise. https://u.gg/lol/champions/irelia/pro-build
builds 
at 4% completion rate, and full damage/hybrids otherwise. https://u.gg/lol/champions/aatrox/pro-build
That's 4 champions who build tank items, but with a completion rate lower than 5%.
This brings our total up to 16/20. 80% of the top 20 build tank items less than 5% of the time....
The remaining 4 are
Garen's top 8 items are, in order, 
He builds TWO defensive items. Deadman's at 43%, Spirit Visage at 12%. Otherwise, pure. fucking. damage.
As above, but for Darius, in order, 
Three defensive items. The same two as Garen, both at lower rates (13% Deadman's, 8% Spirit Visage) and Righteous Glory, 5%.
The other two, Shen and Nasus, do build pretty much full tank. 1 damage item, maybe two. But can you really say that 2/20 is "most top laners building full tank"? And yes, this is the majority of top laners. There are 41 champions registered to have gone in the top lane on u.gg, and these comprise the absolute bulk of anything picked.
EDIT: And don't come back with "hurr, the majority of players are in Silver and Gold so this is irrelevant" nonsense. No one cares who's building what at low elos. I could rock into Bronze with ADC Diana and shit on people. That doesn't mean it's viable or even remotely good.
Lovelle2 votesYeah, the only champs that build tank items anymore don't have decent damage scaling. They build them not because they want to, but because they don't have any better options.
Tanks with decent ratios, like Amumu and Malphite often run AP builds, as they have more of an impact that way.
Subdue1 votes---Snip---
The premise of your analysis is wrong. Purchase rate doesn't tell nearly the whole story. Players will always build their damage items because they always benefit from increased damage. However, they won't always build defensive items because there isn't always a strong source of that damage. Take Garen for example. Spirit Visage may be the 6th item on your list, but that doesn't mean it's the 6th item he buys. If the enemy is overwhelmingly AP, or if an AP character on the enemy gets fed early, the Spirit Visage is going to be his 2nd or 3rd item. On the otherhand, if there are no AP champions at all on the enemy team, he'll never build the Spirit Visage at all. In fact he'll probably have a Thornmail, which isn't even on your list now. This doesn't mean that defensive items are ineffective. It merely shows that unlike damage items, defensive items can't be automatic buys and must be reactive relative to the enemy.
ArtumisPrime2 votesYes, of course that's not the 6th item he buys. If it has a 5% completion rate that means he buys it 1 out of 20 games. You understand this, right?
The fact that 18 out of the 20 champions in that top 20 most picked list build a defensive item in less than 1 out of 20 games absolutely means the items are ineffective in the majority of situations, as a first-to-third item.
If someone were building Spirit Visage as high as 25% of the time and Sunfire Cape 25% of the time, you would have an argument. The fact that, again, for 18 out of those 20 champions, the first defensive item on the top 8 list is less than 5% means a great deal.
Subdue1 votesYes, of course that's not the 6th item he buys. If it has a 5% completion rate that means he buys it 1 out of 20 games. You understand this, right?
The fact that 18 out of the 20 champions in that top 20 most picked list build a defensive item in less than 1 out of 20 games absolutely means the items are ineffective in the majority of situations, as a first-to-third item.
If someone were building Spirit Visage as high as 25% of the time and Sunfire Cape 25% of the time, you would have an argument. The fact that, again, for 18 out of those 20 champions, the first defensive item on the top 8 list is less than 5% means a great deal.
What percentage of junglers are building tank items? What percentage of supports? You're looking at a list comprised primarily of carry champions and arguing that it's indicative of the ineffectiveness of tank items. If I pulled a list of the top 20 picked supports and showed that none of them are building Blade of the Ruined King, would that be a good argument for how ineffective Blade of the Ruined King is? That they spill over at all is a testament to how effective they are. When is the last time you saw Vayne with a Randuins?
ArtumisPrime1 votesThat was not the argument in question. He said "the majority of top laners build tank items." Don't move the goal posts.
EDIT: Also your BoRK argument is stupid. If the majority of top laners are playing carry champs and not building defensive items at all, then there is a problem with tank stats or items. NO supports build BoRK, there ARE however tank top laners and even bruisers are expected to build some defense (though not in the current meta, hey)
EDIT 2: Oh, and. If tank items were better we would not see the top 20 have 2 tanks, who are picked at numbers 18 and 19, respectively. It is indicative of the state of the game to have tanks so underrepresented.
Subdue1 votesThat was not the argument in question. He said "the majority of top laners build tank items." Don't move the goal posts.
EDIT: Also your BoRK argument is stupid. If the majority of top laners are playing carry champs and not building defensive items at all, then there is a problem with tank stats or items. NO supports build BoRK, there ARE however tank top laners and even bruisers are expected to build some defense (though not in the current meta, hey)
Look at your list again. The tank top laners and bruiser top laners ARE building the tank items. You said so yourself. And in fact, if you look at other top laners that are tanks or bruisers, like Maokai, Ornn, Mundo, Yorrick, you find that they ARE building tank items.
Also, the original post was about tank items in general, not tank items in top lane, and certainly not tank items in top lane on non-tank champions. I didn't realize that one of you decided to arbitrarily change the premise from the original post.
ArtumisPrime1 votesThe comment I replied to said "The majority of top laners build tank items" and my reply was "The majority of top laners do NOT build tank items" which is where this particular comment chain originated.
Also read my 2nd edit on that post in regards to your second reply. (And bruisers building tank items 1 out of 20 games is not them building tank items. That's them building an item in extremely niche scenarios.)
Subdue1 votesThat was not the argument in question. He said "the majority of top laners build tank items." Don't move the goal posts.
EDIT: Also your BoRK argument is stupid. If the majority of top laners are playing carry champs and not building defensive items at all, then there is a problem with tank stats or items. NO supports build BoRK, there ARE however tank top laners and even bruisers are expected to build some defense (though not in the current meta, hey)
EDIT 2: Oh, and. If tank items were better we would not see the top 20 have 2 tanks, who are picked at numbers 18 and 19, respectively. It is indicative of the state of the game to have tanks so underrepresented.
They're not under-represented. The meta has shifted to prioritize champions that can split push and duel in top lane, and as such the role of tanks has shifted to supports. All the true-tank supports are in the top 10 most picked (4 of them taking up the first 4 slots) except for Alistar and Braum, who are 18 and 19 respectively. They're also present in the jungle, in the form of Jarvan, Nunu, Zac, and so on.
That said, if you switch your filter on Top Lane from Pick Rate to Tier, which takes into account Ban Rates and Win Rates as well, you bring forward the likes of Malphite, Illaoi, Yorrick, and Mundo, who are absent from your list now.
ArtumisPrime1 votesThe same Malphite who's building full AP most of the time now? Not sure why it still has Sunfire and IBG listed as the two most purchased items. If you look at the recent games, that's not even remotely true. probuilds.net says otherwise as well (they have his top two as Runic Echo's and Morello)
The same Yorick who builds Triforce 95% of the time, Sterak's, 59% of the time, and then his next highest is Spirit Visage at 10%? Admittedly, Yorick does build a few....but my contention is that with items ending at 2-3 items, tank items are almost never built because they are weaker than their damage counterparts.
Or Illaoi who's in a similar boat to Yorick, except her highest defensive item is Spirit Visage at 18% then Randuin's at 3%?
Yes, Mundo is a tank. He is not, however, picked for his tankiness. He is picked because he can survive some burst and dish out equally as much. Similar to season 6 tanks who were immortal nuclear cannons.
Subdue1 votesThe same Malphite who's building full AP most of the time now? Not sure why it still has Sunfire and IBG listed as the two most purchased items. If you look at the recent games, that's not even remotely true. probuilds.net says otherwise as well (they have his top two as Runic Echo's and Morello)
The same Yorick who builds Triforce 95% of the time, Sterak's, 59% of the time, and then his next highest is Spirit Visage at 10%? Admittedly, Yorick does build a few....but my contention is that with items ending at 2-3 items, tank items are almost never built because they are weaker than their damage counterparts.
Or Illaoi who's in a similar boat to Yorick, except her highest defensive item is Spirit Visage at 18% then Randuin's at 3%?
Yes, Mundo is a tank. He is not, however, picked for his tankiness. He is picked because he can survive some burst and dish out equally as much. Similar to season 6 tanks who were immortal nuclear cannons.
We've come full circle now, so I'll refer you to my first post which explains WHY damage items are built first.
ArtumisPrime1 votesAnd again, I must reiterate. It's because damage items are stronger, and defensive items are now niche purchases for the vast majority of the roster.
You will always be against some sort of physical/magic damage composition. 100% of the time there will be a champion who is either going to have their damage reduced by armor or magic resist. The story is much different when you look at the completion rates of tank items.
In the current state of the game, defensive items are straight up weaker than their offensive counterparts. This is why you see every champion build at least 1 damage item (usually it's 3-4+).
Of the top 20 most picked champions--
Supports have 4 tanks (not counting Blitz and Thresh because they build way more utility than tank, as opposed to something like a Leona or Ali.)
Top lane has 2 tanks.
Mid lane has none unless you count Vlad, who is not even building Spirit Visage these days. Let that sink in for a moment. VLADIMIR is not building Spirit Visage in a lane against primarily AP champions.
ADC has none.
Going by pick rates, this means that in the absolute, largest bulk of all games, you will see a tank, as a support...in maybe 1 out of 3 games, 1/2 at most. And in the top lane maybe 1 out of 25 games. The champions you DO see, outside of support, do not build defensive items until after 3-4 damage items...which is where games end most of the time. This is a systemic problem which is intrinsic based on the state of the game itself. Tank items are garbage. Otherwise we would see more tanks.
Subdue1 votesAnd again, I must reiterate. It's because damage items are stronger, and defensive items are now niche purchases for the vast majority of the roster.
You will always be against some sort of physical/magic damage composition. 100% of the time there will be a champion who is either going to have their damage reduced by armor or magic resist. The story is much different when you look at the completion rates of tank items.
In the current state of the game, defensive items are straight up weaker than their offensive counterparts. This is why you see every champion build at least 1 damage item (usually it's 3-4+).
Of the top 20 most picked champions--
Supports have 4 tanks (not counting Blitz and Thresh because they build way more utility than tank, as opposed to something like a Leona or Ali.)
Top lane has 2 tanks.
Mid lane has none unless you count Vlad, who is not even building Spirit Visage these days. Let that sink in for a moment. VLADIMIR is not building Spirit Visage in a lane against primarily AP champions.
ADC has none.
Going by pick rates, this means that in the absolute, largest bulk of all games, you will see a tank, as a support...in maybe 1 out of 3 games, 1/2 at most. And in the top lane maybe 1 out of 25 games. The champions you DO see, outside of support, do not build defensive items until after 3-4 damage items...which is where games end most of the time. This is a systemic problem which is intrinsic based on the state of the game itself. Tank items are garbage. Otherwise we would see more tanks.
Offensive itemization has to outscale defensive itemization, otherwise the ideal strategy for both teams would be to build unkillable tanks for 2 hour long games. This is by design. Also, like I said... what 6 posts ago now, defensive itemization is reactive. Unless a champion scales with some defensive stat, it is typically a bad idea to build a defensive item before offensive items because you don't know who on the enemy team is going to pop off. Furthermore, if no one on the enemy team pops off, it may not be necessary to build a defensive item at all. Unlike damage items which always add value, defensive items eventually reach a point where they do not. If you're a tank and you're walking away from fights at 60% HP as opposed to 40% HP, that's 20% defensive itemization that you didn't need. Your reaction is not to build more of it. On the other hand offensive itemization always adds value for both engages and for securing objectives.
Subdue1 votesOffensive itemization has to outscale defensive itemization, otherwise the ideal strategy for both teams would be to build unkillable tanks for 2 hour long games. This is by design. Also, like I said... what 6 posts ago now, defensive itemization is reactive. Unless a champion scales with some defensive stat, it is typically a bad idea to build a defensive item before offensive items because you don't know who on the enemy team is going to pop off. Furthermore, if no one on the enemy team pops off, it may not be necessary to build a defensive item at all. Unlike damage items which always add value, defensive items eventually reach a point where they do not. If you're a tank and you're walking away from fights at 60% HP as opposed to 40% HP, that's 20% defensive itemization that you didn't need. Your reaction is not to build more of it. On the other hand offensive itemization always adds value for both engages and for securing objectives.
In how many games during Worlds did we see a team that DIDN'T have a tank?
ArtumisPrime1 votesFirstly, damage does not HAVE to outscale defenses. This wasn't the case back in S2, 3, 4...not sure entirely when it was changed, TBH. Somewhere between S5 and 6, I believe. Game time averages were around 40-45 mins. Not the 2 hour hyperbole you're referring to. And, honestly, I feel that damage not only outscaling defenses, but being outright better at all stages of the game is one of the massive problems with this iteration of LoL, but that's another argument entirely.
As for how many games didn't have a tank at worlds...it's a larger number than I would imagine you suspect.
https://lol.gamepedia.com/2019_Season_World_Championship/Play-In/Pick-Ban_History
https://lol.gamepedia.com/2019_Season_World_Championship/Main_Event/Pick-Ban_History
I'm not going to go through and count each one, but have a look for yourself.
Lovelle1 votesIt began at the beginning of S3, when Riot changed the penetration formula. From that point forward both tank items and masteries were both pretty lackluster until S5, when they over buffed the defensive masteries. That's when many tanks and juggs (Mundo, Shyv, Trundle) could viably run 0/30/0 pages and be incredibly hard to kill, while also being decent damage threats, as they could live long enough to deal their damage.
After that season, defensive masteries and itemization continuously saw nerfs until Runes Reforged happened, where any late game defensive scaling has been removed completely.
AlienPrimate1 votesNot sure why it still has Sunfire and IBG listed as the two most purchased items.
You go through and list all of these tank items at 5% with absolute certainty that that is the case then you come across Malphite building IBG and Sunfire and dismiss it as being inaccurate even though it is from the same source?
ArtumisPrime1 votesWith Malphite's recent changes I suspect it's still calculating tank items based on picks prior to that, which will take some time to adjust.
You're not wrong though, and I definitely thought about that as I was typing it. If his recent history was even remotely close to those figures, I would have accepted it.
Maybe those two items ARE his most purchased, but with that one, singular case...I'm skeptical.
Hazardus ducees5 votesHonestly, the existence of building tank is no more. Randuins was nice when it reduced the marksmen's ability to get a 100% crit off of every auto. The stats it gave were also very helpful and I wish they would revert it back to the way it was. Look, what is the point of a randuin's if you can get a righteous glory for 250 gold less? Oh yeah, that's right. Better stats... -.- It is almost like league didn't understand the point of this.
uSfUpLarry3 votesTank items need more CDR and more damage reduction in order to be useful.
Scaling damage reduction may be their best bet with the way the current meta is going. Just look at Death's dance and realize how amazing that item is when it comes to improving survivability.
I say Facts2 votesNah, we need a lot of interesting tank items to get rid of the on hit champions, a lot more Hp, more scaling for late game, and more power comes from defensive. That what makes tank users build only tank. But in fact, we have 
and now who prevent people from picking tanks or building tanks. They will just automatically shut them down no matter what.
PzyXo1 votesYep, the items need to be BUFFED TO MAKE THEM TANKS AND CHAMPS THAT GET 1K DAMAGE REDUCED TO 200 DAMAGE WITHOUT THEM DEALING ANY DAMAGE. If tanks keep dealing this damage than just don't buff their items. We don't need more of Malphite
