Thoughts on the state of Grasp of The Undying?

Laugho·Jan 16, 2019·1 votes·1,994 views

I'm gonna state right now that I hate this rune and I thinks it's the most broken rune in the game and I would have it removed if i could. I do think that tanks deserve a good rune but grasp imo is way over tuned as essentially lets champions like be able to hit with absurd amount of damage on top healing them while also giving them permanent max health. It's also able to proc every 4s. This rune makes me tilted more than anything else in the games because it turns otherwise favorable match ups into you getting bullied out of lane. Oh and I'm not even gonna talk about how ranged champs can proc it.

I have no problem with Grasp giving permanent max health, in fact I kind of like that part of it. It's really the I hit you I get health back while also doing extra damage. I would love to see them make changes with this rune as I think it would improve the health of top lane. Honestly I think they either remove the healing part you get in return or the remove the damage. Unless they rework the rune that's the only change I think would be acceptable. I never understood why the quote on quote "tank rune" needs to damage.

Lets look at a at level one grasp does 12 extra damage. with just a black cleaver at level 6 its jumps to 27 damage on top his auto or q. That is total of 27 every 4s. Lets so you have an extended fight with garen for 12 seconds hes gonna do 81 extra damage. That doesn't seem like a lot but it would mean you living through his ult or dying. Technically you have the chance to proc grasp 15 times in a minute if you played it perfectly that would add up to 405 extra damage and 75 health and that's if grasp damage didn't scale with max hp.

I love to know some more peoples thoughts on grasp and if you think it should stay how it is or if it could use an adjustment.

5 Comments

MLDzXnRRRJan 16, 20193 votes

All the keystones are beyond broken. Grasp becomes useless outside laning.

Moody PJan 16, 20192 votes

yeah grasp is OP

The EcdysiastJan 16, 20191 votes

Compared to what?

You can say the damage all you want, but bring up how it compares to other runes. Show us how it's stronger instead of just saying you think it is. And if the evidence doesn't actually support your claim, then you should try to figure out what you're doing that makes it seem like it's too strong.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but we need you to provide evidence that you're right.

LaughoJan 16, 20191 votes

Yeah that's fair. I will continue to use Garen. At level 1 conqueror will so an extra 17-16 and that seems really good and it is. The biggest flaw with conqueror is the remain in combat aspect of the rune and yes I know grasp has that very same aspect to but it does not affect the rune nearly as much as it does conqueror. Most of the time if your using conqueror against a grasp using tank you will never get a trade where conqueror actually procs due to silences, knock ups, and just hard cc in general and really that's why you will struggle using conqueror to its full potential . Not to mention damage is all conqueror does where is grasp has the max hp, life steal and damage aspect. I think the biggest reason grasp is broken is the array of ways in which you may proc the rune let it be a Gangplank Q or a Chogath E. Lot's of times your opponent can get there grasp proc and you have no way to retaliate.

Riot also gutted electrocute. It only does 30 damage starting and it has a 25 second cool down. Referring to my og post garens grasp proc does 12 damage level 1 and all he needs to do is hit 3 grasp procs and essentially out damage an entire electrocute proc and electrocute is supposed to the early game assassin rune. Why does the does the supposed tank rune do more damage than the assassin rune? I do not know and it keeps me up at night.

Anyways thanks for your feedback.

The EcdysiastJan 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah that's fair. I will continue to use Garen. At level 1 conqueror will so an extra 17-16 and that seems really good and it is. The biggest flaw with conqueror is the remain in combat aspect of the rune and yes I know grasp has that very same aspect to but it does not affect the rune nearly as much as it does conqueror. Most of the time if your using conqueror against a grasp using tank you will never get a trade where conqueror actually procs due to silences, knock ups, and just hard cc in general and really that's why you will struggle using conqueror to its full potential . Not to mention damage is all conqueror does where is grasp has the max hp, life steal and damage aspect. I think the biggest reason grasp is broken is the array of ways in which you may proc the rune let it be a Q or a E. Lot's of times your opponent can get there grasp proc and you have no way to retaliate.

Riot also gutted electrocute. It only does 30 damage starting and it has a 25 second cool down. Referring to my og post garens grasp proc does 12 damage level 1 and all he needs to do is hit 3 grasp procs and essentially out damage an entire electrocute proc and electrocute is supposed to the early game assassin rune. Why does the does the supposed tank rune do more damage than the assassin rune? I do not know and it keeps me up at night.

Anyways thanks for your feedback.

Conqueror, to make up for the fact it's weaker levels 1-9, is far, far stronger, especially against tanks, beyond that point. Conversely, as someone else pointed out, Grasp becomes very weak later since you'll be lucky to apply it more than once in a fight.

And you're being a little dishonest with the numbers to compare it to Electrocute. The actual numbers do not support your claim:

Grasp: I'll even add on the 80HP from Doran's Shield or Doran's Blade to up the numbers further. Though the numbers are higher than your original claim (I assume you tested this in Practice Tool but forgot that the dummies have 100 MR)

Garen, a juggernaut, not a tank, has 696 health level 1. **The second-highest level 1 HP in the game. ** So Grasp will do 28 damage, not accounting for enemy defenses.

Ornn, who actually is a tank, not a juggernaut, has only 645 HP level 1-- 26 damage. Poppy's even lower, at 620-- 25 damage. The fact is juggernauts have higher base health than tanks, and you're even misrepresenting it by using the one who has about 30 more than even other juggernauts.

Electrocute: Since it doesn't scale base AD, we'll just use bonus AD. At the start of the game most who take Electrocute will have 20 bonus AD from runes and Doran. So that's actually 38 damage, not 30.

Grasp requires you continue attacking minions or the opponent to have the chance to apply it, which puts you in plenty of danger during that 8 - 14 seconds. As a reward for that risk, you have the chance to proc it more than once. As a result, you're quite vulnerable to champions like Quinn, Kayle, and Rumble.

Electrocute can instead be applied from a safe distance, and its damage is front-loaded. So you don't have to put yourself in danger for any time at all, on top of the damage from 3 abilities. The reward is fitting for the low risk.

Aside from that, 2 hits of Grasp (to your credit, it only takes 2 to out-damage Electrocute, not 3) takes minimum 16 seconds-- if and only if your movement and attack speed are absolutely perfect-- but in reality will take between 24 - 28 seconds. 24 - 28 seconds you're in vulnerable range having to attack minions at least once every 2 seconds in exchange for 18 extra damage (only 12 or 13 for anyone but Garen). Which is a pretty reasonable reward for being vulnerable that long. Though after a similar 25 seconds Electrocute can be applied again from its same safe range, rendering that point moot.

So the conclusion is that Grasp is actually no stronger than Electrocute. It may be way too strong on Garen, but that's because Garen's stats are too high, not Grasp's.