MSI 2016 Update and Worlds 2016 Implications

Riot·Apr 15, 2016·1 votes·130,472 views

TL;DR: The teams who advance to the Knockout Stage of the 2016 Mid-Season Invitational will earn one of top four seeds for their region at the 2016 World Championship.

From May 4-8 and May 13-15, six regional champions will take to the Rift in epic battle at the 2016 Mid-Season Invitational (MSI) in Shanghai. As we previously announced in February, this year’s MSI will feature an extended schedule and an updated format allowing for even more cross-regional clashes. Today, however, we want to discuss some additional changes that should raise the stakes of MSI 2016 for regions, teams, and fans.

Worlds Implications

Starting this year, MSI results will have a direct impact on the World Championship (Worlds). The four teams who advance to the Knockout Stage of MSI will earn a top four seed for their region at Worlds. Teams who fail to advance to the Knockout Stage of MSI will see lowered placement for their teams at Worlds. We’re not changing the number of teams that are going from any region, just how they are placed into groups.

Why make this change? Two major reasons - this creates a better way to seed regional teams into the group draw process at Worlds, and should make MSI an even higher stakes event for fans and teams.

In previous years, seeding has been subjective; we tried to place teams based on historical precedent, but that wasn’t responsive enough to their current strength. By using the most recent international tournament (MSI) to influence the group seeding, this process should be a lot more meritocratic and transparent. This will hopefully lead to more accurate seeding at Worlds and ultimately means a more compelling tournament that’s fun to watch.

Additionally, regional seeding implications raise the stakes for teams as representatives of their regions. Teams will not only be fighting for their own success, but the competitive standing of their region and the pride of their fans. No team will want to let down the fans of their region, which should mean even more meaningful and impactful games.

To help you understand how this impacts Worlds, it’s important to explain how the tournament will work.

Worlds 2016

Format

The Worlds 2016 tournament format remains the same as last year with two stages: the Group Stage followed by a Knockout Stage.

In the Group Stage, 16 teams are sorted into four groups comprised of four teams each. They play in double Round Robin-style, Best of 1 (Bo1) matchups, meaning each team plays every other team in its group twice. Eight teams advance to the the Knockout Stage and matchups will transition to Bo5 format.

Regional Seeds

The number of participating teams and regional seeds per region at Worlds 2016 remains unchanged from last year:

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These 16 teams are allocated to three Group Draw Pools, with regional champions placed in Pool 1. Groups are then randomly drawn based on the teams in each pool; see the 2015 Group Draw Pool Structure graphic below for reference.

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As a reminder, each group may only have one team from any given region. For more technical information on how the Group Draw works, reference our 2015 Group Draw Manual.

So how will MSI results impact Worlds?

For Worlds 2015, the first place teams from China (LPL), Korea (LCK), North America (NA LCS), and Europe (EU LCS) automatically were granted a berth in Pool 1, meaning they could not be matched up against each other in group play. This year, however, the top four teams at MSI 2016 will secure a berth in Pool 1 for their regions. Needless to say, this is a substantial advantage going into the group draw, as Pool 1 seeds are guaranteed to avoid group play with other Pool 1 seeds, who are the strongest teams from their respective regions.

This is how implications will work:

The top four teams at MSI secure the four spots in group draw Pool 1 for their regions.

This means that if the IWC representative finishes in the top four at MSI, #1 IWC moves to Pool 1. This will then have the following effect on other regions:
Whichever region finishes 5th place at MSI will have its top seed in Pool 2
Whichever region finishes 6th place at MSI will have its top seed in Pool 2, and its lowest seed from Pool 2 moved to Pool 3.
If the IWC region makes the MSI top four, that specific region (e.g. Brazil) will automatically secure the #1 IWC spot for Worlds and be promoted to group draw Pool 1

Similarly, if the LMS team finishes in the top four at MSI, #1 LMS moves to Pool 1, and the other regions will adjust as with IWC.

If IWC finishes 5th place at MSI, #1 IWC moves to group draw Pool 2, while #2 IWC stays in Pool 3. This has the following effect on whichever region finishes 6th:

If NA: #1 NA to Pool 2, #2 NA to Pool 3
If EU: #1 EU to Pool 2, #2 EU to Pool 3
If CN: #1 CN to Pool 2, #3 CN to Pool 3
If KR: #1 KR to Pool 2, #3 KR to Pool 3
If LMS: #2 LMS to Pool 3

As a reminder: Teams do not qualify for Worlds from MSI - it is simply the case that a team's performance will affect its region's standing in the Group Draw Pool Structure.

As we mentioned above, one of our goals is to have seeding at Worlds be more representative of regional strength. This helps to do that in two ways: it rewards the top four regions appropriately (giving LMS and IWC the chance to earn a spot that they’ve historically not been granted), and provides a bit of flexibility within Pools 2 and 3 to give IWC more than the all-or-nothing shot at a Pool 1 berth. IWC teams have been gaining ground each year, and we think it’s only fair to them to give them the chance to earn a better seed if they’re ready. The LMS region has clearly shown an ability to compete at the highest level both historically (2012 World Champions) and recently (100% advancement out of Groups at Worlds 2015), and is a strong challenger for a top four seed.

Below is an hypothetical example based on the performance of teams at MSI 2015 and how it could have impacted Worlds 2015.

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If this system of Worlds implications at MSI had been in effect last year, LMS region would have been earned a seed in Pool 1 and North America’s #1 seed would have been demoted to Pool 2.

How will the IWC regions qualify for Worlds 2016 ?

The International Wildcard (IWC) regions will qualify for Worlds from one tournament, the International Wildcard Qualifier (IWCQ), rather than two separate tournaments as was the case in 2015. This will allow for the clear ranking of a #1 and #2 seed from IWC, which becomes important if an IWC team finishes 5th at MSI, but also gives fans a more clear understanding of the strength of these teams.

In the below example, an IWC team such as Brazil (BR) finishes in 5th place at MSI, above North America. Based on this performance, the #1 IWC seed would be in Pool 2 along with the #1 NA seed, although BR would not automatically earn that #1 IWC seed. Additionally, based on their 6th place finish, the #2 NA seed would move down to Pool 3 along #2 IWC.

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What if the IWC region finishes in the top four at MSI 2016?

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If an IWC team finishes in the top four at MSI 2016, that team secures one of the two IWC spots for their region, as well as a berth in Pool 1. In the above example, Brazil would secure the #1 seed, meaning that the winner of the Summer Split Playoff in Brazil would qualify directly to Worlds as a Pool 1 team. The #2 BR seed would still be eligible to participate in the IWCQ to fight for the remaining #2 IWC seed. If #2 BR won the IWCQ then, Brazil would have both IWC spots at Worlds 2016.

In the above example, as the 5th place finisher, EU would have their #1 team moved into Pool 2, as would the 6th place finisher, NA. NA would also have their #2 team moved into Pool 3, alongside their #3 team, as well as #3 EU and #2 IWC.

For more information on these detailed changes, read the 2016 Mid-Season Invitational Official Rules.

Stay tuned to Lolesports to get more updates as regions crown their Spring Split champions and we draw even closer to the 2016 Mid-Season Invitational.

108 Comments

RisenDarkKnightApr 16, 201612 votes

I love how every hypothetical example had NA not in the top 4. Riot has no faith in TSM or CLG apparently.

EleshakaiApr 16, 20166 votes

Well, that just gives them the chance to surprise everyone.

Although my suspicion is closer to KR > EU > LMS > NA > Ch > IWC personally...

korean dogApr 16, 20165 votes

uhh no. Its KR > EU > CN > LMS > NA> IWC. What has NA done over the past few years to justify them that high? They failed at worlds for the past few years and they failed miserably at MSI. CN reached the final at worlds in 2014 and won MSI. When you look at it CN was only disappointing in one major tournament (IEM isnt a major tournament for me). And I have a feeling that if EDG keeps improving they will be the best non Korean team. CN has had a bad year but when you look at the bigger picture in terms of the last few years they are still way better than NA and were better than EU most of the time as well.

sKz Aaron DApr 16, 201612 votes

{quoted}

uhh no. Its KR > EU > CN > LMS > NA> IWC. What has NA done over the past few years to justify them that high? They failed at worlds for the past few years and they failed miserably at MSI. CN reached the final at worlds in 2014 and won MSI. When you look at it CN was only disappointing in one major tournament (IEM isnt a major tournament for me)."

Dude. NA had two teams make it out of groups in season 4. No team from EU made it out. Both NA teams also took games from the top two Korean teams, and most dominant teams we've ever seen in LoL - SSW and SSB. Compared to EU, who lost to the wildcard team. Next year, the opposite happened.

As much as you don't think it's a major tournament, IEM certainly is a major tournament. All of the leagues stop playing for it. It is also the only non-Riot event that is a good international League tourney for the major regions. And an NA team won IEM in Season 5. While the team that went on to be 2nd at worlds lost. NA also made a decent showing at IEM this year, with TSM knocking out Origen and the KeSPA/IEM Cologne winners, ESC Ever.

T RexHasTinyArmsApr 16, 20163 votes

The c9 win vs ssb was legit, but the tsm win vs ssw wasn't a real win. Counting it like it was devalues the accomplishment of c9 that year. Ssw built a troll team comp to see if they could win with it anyway, the casters that game were even calling ssw out saying it was arrogant and bm to do and they weren't surprised the game was lost bc the team comp was what it was.

sKz Aaron DApr 16, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=T RexHasTinyArms,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=z72yolH5,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-16T16:08:56.813+0000)

The c9 win vs ssb was legit, but the tsm win vs ssw wasn't a real win. Counting it like it was devalues the accomplishment of c9 that year. Ssw built a troll team comp to see if they could win with it anyway, the casters that game were even calling ssw out saying it was arrogant and bm to do and they weren't surprised the game was lost bc the team comp was what it was.

SSW was still the most dominant team in the world, and many teams that went to worlds probably would've lost even with the comp they chose. SK Gaming, Taipei Assassins, AHQ eSports, Dark Passage, Kabum, LMQ. Can you really say a team sucks because they won a game where their opponents tried to troll them, when other top teams from around the world likely would've lost?

T RexHasTinyArmsApr 16, 20162 votes

I think LMQ, SK and maybe one of the teams from what is now LMS all could potentially have won that game. Also, the argument isn't "they suck bc of this game" but rather, "this game doesn't mean they're good." LMQ, SK, and at least one of the teams from what is now LMS could all be argued just as much likely to win that game as lose that game if given that big a handicap. Also NONE of the teams you listed are top 10 in the world that year probably. So yes, the argument "tier two teams would have lost vs that much trolling even, but that doesn't make beating that level of trolling an accomplishment" does hold up imo. I really liked that TSM lineup bc it was back when I was still a TSM fan, but that win wasn't an accomplishment, it was a gift. If they win that game like they did then everyone expects it even if they're only an okay team as top tier teams go. If they lose it, they're legit bad compared to international play and we are talking about if they are weak instead of just average.

TrollFan01Apr 19, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=T RexHasTinyArms,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=z72yolH5,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-16T23:05:15.606+0000)

I think LMQ, SK and maybe one of the teams from what is now LMS all could potentially have won that game. Also, the argument isn't "they suck bc of this game" but rather, "this game doesn't mean they're good." LMQ, SK, and at least one of the teams from what is now LMS could all be argued just as much likely to win that game as lose that game if given that big a handicap. Also NONE of the teams you listed are top 10 in the world that year probably. So yes, the argument "tier two teams would have lost vs that much trolling even, but that doesn't make beating that level of trolling an accomplishment" does hold up imo. I really liked that TSM lineup bc it was back when I was still a TSM fan, but that win wasn't an accomplishment, it was a gift. If they win that game like they did then everyone expects it even if they're only an okay team as top tier teams go. If they lose it, they're legit bad compared to international play and we are talking about if they are weak instead of just average.

Actually it WAS an accomplishment but not in the way you think. It showed NA advanced to the point that Korean couldn't just "style" all over them anymore and still win. They tried to do more style than substance and it bit them in the ass. Just like that perfect record gone and TSM embarrassed them in front of their own country. So yes it's still an accomplishment*[slayer-jinx-catface]* in that sense.

sKz Aaron DApr 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Actually it WAS an accomplishment but not in the way you think. It showed NA advanced to the point that Korean couldn't just "style" all over them anymore and still win. They tried to do more style than substance and it bit them in the ass. Just like that perfect record gone and TSM embarrassed them in front of their own country. So yes it's still an accomplishment*[slayer-jinx-catface]* in that sense.

Thank you for seeing reason.

T RexHasTinyArmsApr 20, 20161 votes

Yeah, I can agree with that. I just don't think that accomplishment is in the same realm as the C9 win is all I was saying. Like NA didn't win a series vs KR back then, but there were some decent match ups and competitive games and tsm vs ssw wasn't one of them.

JangbolsalApr 17, 20162 votes

2015 SKT was as much dominant as SSW and SSB

EleshakaiApr 16, 20162 votes

It's not that I think NA is that high. It's that I think CN is that LOW. China hasn't improved at all. They played exactly the same at every international event they've ever attended. They played the same playstyle with the same skill level.

The meta, and League of Legends as a whole, has evolved a lot and China hasn't. And as a result, the other regions have all grown while they've stagnated.

They could prove me wrong... and I hope they do, because the more competitive the scene as a whole is the better it is to watch... but I just don't see China overcoming their arrogance.

Soda Happy JrApr 17, 20161 votes

Easyhoon will prove you Vici will get it for sure

EleshakaiApr 18, 20164 votes

One player is not enough for a successful team in Pro LoL anymore. It takes a full team, with synergy and cohesive strategy. The only region this isn't the case in is China, which is why I feel they're so weak as a region.

korean dogApr 18, 20162 votes

i definitely think you aren't giving them enough credit. CN in terms of international achievements over the last few years has only been surpassed by KR. EDG was the only team that defeated a Korean team in the best of 5 throughout 2015 including worlds. And dont forget they are still the defending MSI champions. OMG in season 4 worlds was the only non Korean team to 3-0 another Korean team . No team from NA or EU has done that ever in their history.

One bad period from China and you start to say they are not that good. The facts still points otherwise. EU in 2014 didnt have a single team getting out of groups and NA didnt even get out of groups in 2015. Even if China hasnt done well over the last couple of months doesnt mean anything but a slight blip. Things change in lol and they change very quicky. Besides KR dominating every year, all other regions change strength periodically all the time. And just cause EU did better than CN in one tournament doesnt mean they are better. It just means that they are better at that time.

You cant really say NA is better than CN in fact CN has been FAR superior to NA over the past couple of years. Not long ago CN was the only region that could compete with KR. EU has some periodic bursts where they conjured up a few good teams but CN until recently has always been consistently the second best region throughout much of 2015 and they were the second best region in 2014 you cant argue that. Until NA proves me wrong in a major tournament I still rate CN ahead of NA and if we put achievments in 2014 and 2015 in consideration, CN is ahead of EU as well. CN in the last 2 years won MSI, had a finalist at worlds while EU only had semifinal appearances at worlds. So you saying CN can only compete with NA and IWC is a MASSIVE disrespect to an elite region that has the ability to compete with any region even KR as they have shown.

and did you say China doesnt have a team with synergy and cohesive strategy? I would consider EDG right now to be more individually talented, more strategic, and having more synergy than any team in NA right now. And I definitely think at their current state(If you have seen their latest games they are destroying teams in the LPL) they could beat any team not named Rox Tigers or maybe SKT. But we shall see.

EleshakaiApr 19, 20162 votes

It's hard to gauge China or NA's strength because both regions seem to suffer from a similar problem. There are a half dozen teams that look like jokes, and then one or two teams that seem to dominate them. The problem is that China's 'one team that dominates them' looks the exact same as they have for 3 years... and the game has grown a lot. Basically, if you took the nameplates off and watched a game of whichever team is in the lead of China at the time... the games look identical throughout the past 3 years. They play the exact same game. It makes me think that what happened last year is going to happen this year, sicne they're not learning...

It's not 'one bad period' it's that they're no more skilled than they were when they WERE the world champs... but EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD has grown. SKT from 2013 wouldn't beat NA from today. Because everyone, even NA, has grown so much in terms of skill ,strategy, and understanding f the game. Every region except China has done that. China is still where they were in 2014, and I'm just not confident that that is good enough anymore. It might be. It's possible. But I don't believe so.

korean dogApr 19, 20161 votes

How has NA grown? They have literally done worse than China in every single international event. EDG outclassed TSM at MSI. NA teams have shown nothing in the past few years. China HAS grown. If you talk to every expert last year at MSI EDG would not have won against SKT if not for their growth. EDG in 2015 still grew a LOT more than NA who failed at MSI AND worlds. If you see EDG in 2014 they were a late game team who played passive throughout the early game just to have a change late. EDG in 2015 was a very aggressive machine and that was one of the MAIN reasons that they beat SKT. They dove towers early and were crazy aggro and SKT fell to that pressure. If EDG didnt grow they wouldnt have a chance against SKT. Not to sound rude but I dont think you have a ton of knowledge on Chinese league of legends. If you watch EDG now compared to 2 years ago you would see MASSIVE difference in play style and strategies. China arguably undergone the most change in their entire history from 2014 to 2015, EDG especially. For most of 2015 China had many of the top teams in the world at that time.

You are using such a small sample size to judge China on their growth. The only international event that they have ever failed in is at worlds this year. That is a definition of a blip. This has been a down year for CN league of legends but you can't just use one example to say China has never grown. China has outperformed EU and NA in almost every single international tournament in the past few years. Key word is almost. NA, on the other hand, could be argued that they have never grown. When was the last time a team from NA accomplished anything on the international scene? In fact, you could argue that NA has regressed. At least in 2014 TSM and C9 made it out of groups. In 2015 they couldnt even make it out. CLG, NA's supposed best team could not even beat a IWC team. If we are going by pure facts NA would no doubt be the worst region taking into account recent history.

Saying SKT 2013 wouldnt beat NA now is not really a logical statement because those were different map, different meta, and different champions and items. It is almost impossible to compare how each team would do or how they would go against each other.

Btw. EDG in game 5 vs SKT came up with a strategy to defeat Faker's Leblanc which he was undefeated in competitive play. That is more strategic nous that I have seen NA or EU pull off. So i definitely think you are underselling China as a region.

EleshakaiApr 19, 20161 votes

IN 2015 China received a ton o skilled players, and people watched how China did against other China teams and thought 'OMG THEY'RE SO GOOD' and then they came to worlds and arrogance and complacency were their downfall. Now, people watch China against other China teams... and it's the same story. They look good and they're arrogant...

And they're going to fall flat on their face again.

It might happen to NA too. Who knows? I'm just really sick of watching China games because if you turned off nameplates and watched games from 2013, 2014, 2015, or 2016.... the games look exactly the same barring the fact that new champions have been released. And the game has changed a lot, so for thm to still be playing it the same way shows either arrogance or stupidity. Not sure which.

korean dogApr 19, 20162 votes

I disagree. If you watch EDG for example, their play style is completely different than in 2014. And once again you cant just use a single tournament to base your argument. Almost every team in CN changed drastically for better or worse. I fail to see how you see similarities.

China failed at worlds for one year. They did extremely well in all the rest of the tournaments better than both EU and NA. EU failed in 2014 and NA failed in 2015 why aren't you saying the same things about them?

"Now, people watch China against other China teams... and it's the same story. They look good and they're arrogant..." You literally said that China doesnt look good right now and are looking sloppy. I dont know where you get the arrogance from. So every time a region does poorly they are arrogant? I think you are just trying to make an issue out of nothing. You dont know whats going on behind the scenes for the Chinese teams so I think its unfair of you to judge these players when you dont know their situation and how they practice.

I really dont understand what issue you have with China as a region they performed well in almost every single international competition baring one worlds tournament. Its like you are just waiting for China to fail so you could critisize them. NA and EU failed MANY more times than CN has in the past few years and you dont seem to have a problem with it.

If you are really looking for an example of a region that shows no growth or competitive skill NA is a much better example to use. They literally have done NOTHING in the past few international tournaments. China has done better everytime.

Skill wise China is not inferior to EU or NA. In fact for most years China had superior teams and players to western teams. One blip of a year doesnt make them a trash region. I have a feeling with the way EDG are playing they might just prove you wrong and show you that China, even though they had a bad year will prove that they are the second best region again.

EleshakaiApr 19, 20161 votes

I never said they didn't look good... I said they look the same as always and that their internal competition is really weak.

But we'll have to wait and see won't we. NA looked AWFUL last year. This year, they have a lot more cohesive strategy, and aside from a few misreads of the meta, look much improved. That being said, they still look weaker than the best of LMS, EU, or LCK. I think that, if you think China's strategy or playstyle has changed, you're just blinding yourself to the reality of the situation... but I mean... neither of us can PROVE the things we say, so it's all speculation. And I think that spending so much time arguing about the BOTTOM of the table is kind of silly. "Are they going to be fourth or fifth? WHO KNOWS"

Might as well just give it up ;)

I'm pretty sure we're going to see 1) LCK 2) EU/LMS 3) EU/LMS 4) NA/CN 5) NA/CN. It's just the order that varies. I think EU looks more competitive than LMS right now, but just barely. And I think NA looks like they've learned more from their failures than China did. But again, just barely. You disagree. That's fine. Opinions are allowed to be different.

YCitizenSnipsYApr 16, 20161 votes

How do you come to that conclusion since NA has only made it further than China in one international tournament since MSI last year?

EleshakaiApr 16, 20164 votes

China has this insane arrogance... this absurd belief that because they were the best for one gleaming moment they always will be. They don't seem to care what other regions do, even what other teams do. And thus they don't seem to ever improve. China has played exactly the same in EVERY international event they've attended... and every other region, even the IWC, has improved. I don't think IWC have surpassed them yet, but unless China has overcome that arrogance, I think every other region has.

YCitizenSnipsYApr 17, 20163 votes

And yet the still do better than NA at almost every international event, including the last one. I think this is a case of fanboying if you really think NA is better than China. NA is still clearly the weakest region internationally.

EleshakaiApr 17, 20162 votes

If I was fanboying I'd have placed them higher. I think NA has three strong teams right now that are dramatically superior to the rest of NA and would be able to offer a good showing at an international event. Not an overall win, but to make it further than China's predictable style.

That being said, China, IWS, and NA are clearly the bottom half, and it's just a matter of which order they'll place in. I highly doubt IWC will overtake China or NA at this point, so the only thing we differ on is whether NA has overtaken China's stagnation or not.

YCitizenSnipsYApr 17, 20162 votes

We just had a tournament 2 months ago where they failed to make it further than China. Look at this clown fiesta that is TSM vs CLG right now, you think they can win internationally when this is how they play in the finals? Not to mention neither team has even drafted a Sivir pick yet despite her being priority in every other region, they don't even know the meta. The results don't lie China has done better than NA for a year, and their is no evidence that they are worse now.

We will see at MSI, but don't be surprised if NA goes home with a repeat performance of last season.

EleshakaiApr 18, 20162 votes

China games are no better lol

I'm not saying EITHER of them are good. I'm saying they both suck, and I just think China sucks SLIGHTLY more. Give it up.

YCitizenSnipsYApr 18, 20161 votes

I don't care what you think, and there is nothing to "give up"

China has the better international record becasue they are better than NA. Only an NA fanboy thinks they are anything but the weakest region right now.

EleshakaiApr 18, 20162 votes

I could make the same point "Only a China fanboy thinks they're anything but the second weakest region" but it'd be just as hollow as when you make it.(also worth noting is that if you think NA is weaker than the IWC regions, you have no eye for the game at all... which explains a lot about your other opinions)

The simple reality is that, given the way the two regions are playing, either one of them could be the second weakest. It depends on a lot of factors, including what you consider to be more valuable in the current state of the game, which one is stronger and which is weaker.

And, in the end, it doesn't matter which is weaker, they're both terrible. So, you - as a fanboy of China - must feel REALLY bad about the fact that the best you can argue for the region you live is 'oh they're not the worst'.

For me, my favourite region is actually Europe... so I'm quite pleased to see how competitive their region is looking, and the fact that they actually have the potential to compete with the other regions right now.

I enjoy watching NA a lot, because their games are bloody and fun to watch, and you get to really watch them grow... but they still have a long way to go. The nice thing about them is that they ARE making progress, even though they still have a huge way to go to really be competitive with anyone except China and IWC.

That's why I hate watching China... they show no progress. They're not getting any better. They're not changing their strategies, they're not changing anything except the occasional player here and there. It's really sad to watch. If they're NOT 5th now, they will be by Worlds, because they're just not growing and every other region is. Korea's growing, even though they're already the best. LMS is growing by leaps and bounds. Europe is growing, slowly but surely. IWC regions are growing really quickly. Even NA is growing. China isn't. So EVENTUALLY they're going to be the worst, it's just a matter of time.

YCitizenSnipsYApr 18, 20161 votes

I'm not speculating, I'm using past international performances for my opinion. The last time China and NA had a head to head, QG beat CLG. CLG just won the split as the best team in NA and they got their asses handed to them by EU and China.

Obviously when I say weakest region I mean major regions.

NA isn't fucking growing lol. The rest of the world is running Sivir in the bot lane, here comes CLG with fucking Trist and EZ. NA has no concept of the meta or how to play the map well, some teams only look like they do when they play other bad NA teams. CLG got exposed as one dimensional who don't even have a macro game, they are just all split push. Even against TSM, every game they played was a 1-3-1. NA hasn't grown at all.

Also lol at me being a "chinese fanboy" for stating the obvious. As records have proven time and time again China is better than NA. And don't be surprised when EDG/RNG stomp CLG at MSI. Also I must be a pretty bad Chinese fanboy with a Tigers icon.

EleshakaiApr 18, 20162 votes

1-3-1 with double teleport IS the strongest gamestate in the meta currently - with certain lategame mages offering a counter to that meta, like Azir. Most regions utilize a lot of that. This is the era of the double teleport.

You're focusing so much on Sivir, when Sivir wouldn't have done any better in any of these games than either Cait or Trist for CLG for the strat they wanted to run. Sivir would've been a good pick for TSM, due to their heavy teamfight style, and it surprised me that DoubleLift didn't go for it... but Sivir wouldn't have worked any better for Stixxay than Cait/Ez/Trist.

You have to understand WHY a champ is strong to understand why they are being picked, and it's because Sivir fits so well into the Korean playstyle that she's dominant there.

The other weird thing about metagames is that metagames are very dependant. We've seen tournaments in nearly every region where champions that aren't necessarily a part of the global meta become MASSIVELY contested during a major tournament due to the metagame of that tournament.

But I think this'll be my last post. You're not a fanboy, you're an anti-fanboy. You just love to hate North America, and it's hilarious to watch. I'm not saying NA is good, but you're exaggerating how bad they are because you're blind to the growth they have shown. Your desperation to hate NA is amusing, if a little sad.

Either way, have a nice day. I hope someday you can move beyond your silly hatred.

YCitizenSnipsYApr 18, 20161 votes

You just said Sivir wouldn't be good for a heavy teamfighting comp, I don't even. Also no, 1-3-1 isn't used by every region as the primary meta. Hell Faker used an ignite TF in SKT's series win over Jin-Air. Even when teams do run a double tp they don't strictly 1-3-1.

How is Ezreal or Trist stronger than Sivir in the comps CLG were running?

I don't hate, NA. Just telling the truth that they are the worse major region. You try to make up things for how they have grown, I use actual concrete proof, their international record to say other wise. Its just funny to see NA fanboys such as your self rate the region so high based off of nothing, other than their own domestic play which is a joke.

EleshakaiApr 18, 20163 votes

Reading comprehension fail... "Sivir would've been a good pick for TSM, due to their heavy teamfight style"

Would've, not 'wouldn't have'. Sivir would've worked for TSM totally. But the series meta wasn't revolving around her, and that's fine. In the current state of the game, Ez and Trist do have strengths. They're not all-around strong, but if you want to poke and take down turrets, Trist is the fastest and safest in the game at it. Jinx is almost as fast, but not as safe which is why she's not strong right now. If the teamcomp is focused around turrets, then Trist is a valuable pick. And if you want your ADC to be safe and that's all you're concerned about, then Ez is the safest. I'm not necessarily saying they're the best picks you could make, but there are reasons why, in certain teamcomps, trist or ez would be good picks. Your problem is you're too tunneled on a tier list and don't recognize that, in specific situations, sometimes non-meta picks CAN be ideal.

But I don't expect intelligence from someone who sustains themselves purely on hate, so the reading comprehension fail and tier-list sheeping isn't unexpected.

I don't rate NA high... I rate NA low. They're clearly second weakest of the primary regions. That's extremely low. Just not quite as low as pure utter stagnation and arrogance.

There's no concrete proof, it's all speculation. On all fronts. From everyone. From me, from you, from the analysts, from everyone. Hell, even MSI won't be concrete proof since it's only a few games and China could be having a bad day if they lose, but it'll at least give us a better idea of where things lie.

KaxiApr 18, 20162 votes

{quoted}

And yet the still do better than NA at almost every international event, including the last one. I think this is a case of fanboying if you really think NA is better than China. NA is still clearly the weakest region internationally.

Well, I actually have a counter-argument to that. The results from the last international competition were strange and weird and messed with by Fnatic. CLG never played a Chinese squad; CLG lost to SKT and then Fnatic 1-2. Fnatic also went on to beat both of the other Chinese squads (RNG and QG) 2-1. TSM never played a Chinese squad, either, despite attending the semi finals. If anything, it's really hard to compare NA and CH from the results of IEM Katowice since both representatives from both regions were eliminated in very very similar fashions. Sure, the argument can be made about TSM dropping a game to a Korean Challenger team, which then lost to RNG, but TSM also turned around to 2-0 said Korean Challenger team.

It's just a rough comparison considering the worst-resulting team of the four lost 2-1 to the same team that knocked out two of the other three teams in the same fashion (2-1). Yes, QG was on a fall starting the week before IEM; yes, CLG was supposed to be on a hot-streak and a competitor. However, in a direct comparison, they performed scarily similar.

Also, I'm pissed there wasn't an LMS team at IEM Katowice; that was dumb.

TheChessGodApr 18, 20161 votes

dude, you are an NA fanboy indeed though u dont admit it. I can see from no aspect that NA>CN. Though I also hope NA can come to MSI huge but honestly, I would definitely rate CN>NA right now

KaxiApr 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

dude, you are an NA fanboy indeed though u dont admit it. I can see from no aspect that NA>CN. Though I also hope NA can come to MSI huge but honestly, I would definitely rate CN>NA right now

I'm just going to link this post as a response since it addresses your statement, as well. (I'm lazy.)

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/z72yolH5-msi-2016-update-and-worlds-2016-implications?show=flat&comment=000200000001000000000001

SpookyPowaApr 16, 20164 votes

They actually just took last year's MSI's standings.

EthyreonApr 16, 20168 votes

It's still a complete crime that Taiwan only gets 2 seeds.

Hyper10sionApr 16, 20164 votes

It is just a smaller region. Where NA, LCK, and EU have 10 teams each, and LPL has 12. LMS has 8. Plus they need to balance it with the IWC, or else the IWC would be underrepresented.

sKz Aaron DApr 16, 201612 votes

{quoted}

It's still a complete crime that Taiwan only gets 2 seeds.

It's for two reasons. The region used to share GPL (which is wildcard) and essentially had 3 potential spots. The region also has 8 teams total compared to 10 or 12 from the other regions. Also, to be fair, there are only ever 2 or 3 teams considered decent in LMS :/ AHQ, TPA, and Flash Wolves. The region is usually considered very shallow, with one team almost always going winless.

EthyreonApr 17, 20162 votes

Yet with all the disadvantages they still had a strong showing at worlds.

HinatazakaApr 18, 20162 votes

Yes they did, but what he is saying is that adding a third team wouldn't have done anything. Flash Wolves and AHQ were far above the other teams in the LMS last year, as they are this year, so while they showed world class strength at worlds, that isn't indicative of the remainder of the LMS. Until the rest of the LMS teams step up to FW and AHQ's levels, the LMS only really needs 2 seeds to showcase their talent.

SshateApr 18, 20163 votes

HKE with Toys at the helm beat FlashWolf in the playoff and barely lost to FlashWolf 2-3 in the Regional qualifier. They might not be as strong as 1st seed teams (except NA of course XD), but they were very good team, more deserving of a 3rd seed than many 2nd seeds in major regions. :P

If you ask me, the best solution should be that 5th place region will get 2 seeds, but its 3rd place team will compete in the International wild card to help shuffle out struggling major regions and also ensure IWC will send fewer wins every year.

ZeroBlazeitAug 24, 20161 votes

AHQ is nowhere close to second place this split but I'm sure they are still better then NA and EU.

shjcowboysApr 18, 20162 votes

nah, riot wants to balance out the Asian:White ratio.

ZeroBlazeitAug 24, 20161 votes

Agreed. They are extremely underrated and has consistently proved to be a force to recon with. They surely deserve a third seed more that NA or EU.

DiodeApr 16, 20168 votes

I dont understand anything

facehuntApr 16, 20167 votes

I'm sorry but this is outright retarded. Due to the vast meta changes and knowing how in esports teams' forms play a massive swing in their level of play, it won't create any credible pool system for a major tournament that happens only once a year. If you want accurate representations of the regional strengths, you simply need more tournaments to see overall performance of every team that ever participates. Also, what kind of decision was it to allow Bo1's to determine the seeding for Worlds? This only creates random outcomes and really goes against the "competitive integrity" that you clowns preach about.

Not to mention, the Worlds format blows. It's garbage and for the amount of international tournaments we get in a year, it is so far and few between and it has been quite lackluster. Dota 2's The International/Majors format is ideal because it adds a high level of fairness as it allows every team in the tournament to play in the bracket stage and use the group stage as seeding. Not to mention, it is a double elimination brackets setup so it ensures that two best teams will meet in the finals.

TajikDaSummonerApr 16, 20164 votes

MSI isn't Bo1's anymore... that was announced a while ago and linked in the introductory paragraph. Pay attention before you criticize. http://www.lolesports.com/en_US/articles/msi-2016-heading-shanghai

MadorundApr 16, 20164 votes

You may want to read both articles before you try to high pedestal something. From this article: "The four teams who advance to the Knockout Stage of MSI will earn a top four seed for their region at Worlds." This means whoever makes it through the group stages. Now from your linked article:

 "After last year’s MSI, we wanted to see more region vs. region matches, so we’ve decided to expand the Group Stage on May 4-8 to a double round-robin format, meaning twice as many games. After Group Stage, we move to the Best-of-5 (Bo5) Semifinals and Finals on May 13-15. At the end of the tournament, one team will walk away with the title of MSI Champion."

Therefore, top seed IS determined by BO1s, since the BO5s do not start until the top seeds are already picked.

Edit: Spelling

TajikDaSummonerApr 16, 20162 votes

Once again, you either misread or didn't pay enough attention to the information in front of you. In a double round robin teams play each other TWICE to determine standing, and then move to elimination round. NO ONE is out of the tournament until after the 2 games against EVERYONE and whoever performs best against international competition as a whole moves on. By the way this format looks familiar.... oh wait, its how **WORLDS GROUPS STAGE **works. _ So seeds are not determined by Bo1s, at all. _ This is merely a imitation of how worlds will proceed, as they said, to ideally pick teams with a better chance of advancing and performing at worlds in order to place them in higher seed they deserve. P.S. And I believe the turn of phrase you were thinking of was either "before you get on (or get down from) your high horse" or "get off (or before you get on) your pedestal" not "high pedestal someone." [slayer-jinx-catface]