Five things we learned from IEM San Jose 2015

Riot·Nov 24, 2015·1 votes·19,635 views

Immediately following any competitive tournament, the scramble to pick apart results, decisions, and specific plays begins. Although IEM San Jose 2015 was filled with uncertain rosters, and was played on the older 5.21 patch without patch 5.22's payload of preseason changes, there are still bits and pieces of information to be extracted. Here are five things we learned from IEM San Jose 2015.

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LGD Continues to Fall

For those who watched LGD Gaming in China throughout 2015, their disappointment continues to be a stabbing ache in one's gut following their IEM San Jose performance.

LGD Gaming is a specifically bitter pill due to an assembly of incredible talent in nearly every position and their legitimately good performances in the 2015 LPL Summer Playoffs. Their unparalleled arrogance in failing to prepare cost them dearly at the 2015 League of Legends World Championship and it seems they haven't righted their ship just yet.

Against Team SoloMid at IEM, LGD gave up objective after objective, often without taking any in return. The only advantages they took were ones gifted to them by TSM's mistakes. This was coupled with poor performances from both LGD top laners and a continued lack of jungle pressure from Yongquan "TBQ" Zhu.

The talent on LGD is rare -- TBQ is the only player not considered to be the best in his position in 2015 China -- but their continued thoughtlessness on the Rift points to extensive communication issues well beyond the typical language barrier that plagues hybrid rosters. Changes are likely imminent, if they weren't already, following this dismal 0-2 IEM showing.

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TSM is Moving Past Their "Solo Mid"

This was Team SoloMid's first test with a dual carry threat and the results were mixed.

Many words have been spilled over the logistics and resource distribution of having mid laner Søren "Bjergsen" Bjerg and AD carry Yiliang "Doublelift" Peng on the same team. Of all players in the 2015 North American LCS Summer, Doublelift received the highest percentage of his team's gold -- nearly a third of it at 28.8% -- and Bjergsen wasn't too far behind with his own 27.2%.

Against LGD, Team SoloMid looked more coordinated than their opponent in spite of only having four days of practice time. Glaring mistakes in team fight positioning allowed LGD glimmers of hope, but TSM were one step ahead of their Chinese opponents for the entirety of the series. A surprising, but legitimate, secondary carry threat rose not from Doublelift, but TSM's new top laner, Kevin "Hauntzer" Yarnell. TSM's 2-0 sweep of LGD served as the former Gravity top laner's coming out party against the top-tier talent of Cheon-ju "Acorn" Choi and Ho-jong "Flame" Lee.

However, against the far more cohesive Origen, TSM struggled mightily. Origen shut down Hauntzer with ease, and TSM's lack of synergy in their warding patterns, as well as in their skirmishing, quickly became their undoing. With Bjergsen on Orianna and Lulu in Games 1 and 2 against Origen respectively, he was unable to dig TSM -- and his new AD carry Doublelift -- out from underneath their deficit.

This hardly means that TSM should completely return to the drawing board. Hauntzer is a talented prospect, provided that he receives a bit more coaching on how to play the long lane on a team with two other carry threats. Jungler Dennis "Svenskeren" Johnsen will also help exponentially with this -- his early attention gave Hauntzer the necessary push to shine in the LGD series. As it turns out, TSM can still thrive without becoming wholly the Bjergsen show, and time will likely iron out communication kinks. It remains to be seen whether TSM will stick with this specific roster, but cautious optimism is in the air for TSM.

Jin Air Needs Chaser Back

There were already doubts surrounding Tae-jin "Winged" Park from the KeSPA Cup, and Jin Air's performance at IEM San Jose made it abundantly clear he's probably not going to cut it on this new team. Without steadfast mid laner Chang-seok "GBM" Lee, the newer players on the Jin Air roster are aggressive but volatile, and require a lot more practice under their figurative belts. Top laner Jun-yeong "SoHwan" Kim looked utterly lost at times without an experienced guide, even with his signature Riven pick, and mid laner Seong-hyeok "Kuzan" Lee's team fighting varied from excellent to atrocious.

These two relative newbies need a more experienced jungler like Sang-hyun "Chaser" Lee to help jump-start their early laning phase and synchronize dives, areas where Winged floundered. Often too early or too late to fights, Winged lacked the assuredness that Chaser has while on the Rift.

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It's Another New Era For CLG

A top carry meta suits Darshan "Darshan" Upadhyaha well, and Counter Logic Gaming is now all too eager to set their top laner up to split push and carry. In a brave new world where the majority of CLG's resources do not have to be funneled into the AD carry position, Darshan is now gifted more gold and attention, allowing him to shine. This was most notable in the Semifinals where the Jin Air Greenwings were unable to stop Darshan's split push, leading to a frenetic backdoor victory for CLG. And CLG's green AD carry Trevor "Stixxay" Hayes performed admirably under pressure too. Initially prone to mispositioning in the Unicorns of Love series, Stixxay improved as CLG progressed through the tournament. The opposite was true of CLG's new mid laner, Jae-hyun "HuHi" Choi, who was out of sorts on the international stage and played worse in the latter stages of IEM San Jose, failing to hold his lane.

Following IEM San Jose, the jury is still out on the new Counter Logic Gaming, especially with a few North American rosters yet to be sorted out, as well as imminent 5.22 patch changes due on the competitive landscape. However, CLG have the entirety of the offseason to sort out these issues, and they have a head start compared to most teams, thanks to having a nearly complete roster.

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Origen is Still Great with PowerOfEvil

In the midst of off-season wheelings and dealings, Origen efficiently made their one roster move count. It remains to be seen how much iconic mid laner Enrique "xPeke" Cedeño Martínez will swap with Tristan "PowerOfEvil" Schrage for the 2016 LCS, but plugging the latter into the Origen mid lane was a perfect fit at IEM San Jose. The former Unicorn of Love only died twice throughout Origen's five games and boasted a solid 6.5 KDA. He attributes Origen, and his own, success to the tightness and direct nature of Origen's shotcalling.

Thanks to this shotcalling, Origen vastly outclassed every other team at IEM San Jose in their map movements, pressure, and objective trading. While skeptics may cite the lack of overall competition in this tournament, there's no doubt that Origen remain a world-class team.

What did you think of IEM San Jose? Let us know what you learned, and what some of your favorite moments from the event were below!

36 Comments

TrollFan01Nov 24, 20158 votes

TSM will be fine come Spring. They got past LGD without too much trouble and Origen were the favorite going into the tourney so that's nothing to be ashamed of. Plus a top 4 finish after only 4-5 days together? Much better than some would have thought going in.

Great going to CLG being the first NA team to ever win a "best of" against a Korean team. Granted JAG are going through a change and not a top tier Korean team but CLG is going through changes too so it's about even.

Speaking of that, let's give it to Stixxay. Guy should be given the starter spot DL left.

DestructoDaveNov 24, 20154 votes

{quoted}

TSM will be fine come Spring. They got past LGD without too much trouble and Origen were the favorite going into the tourney so that's nothing to be ashamed of. Plus a top 4 finish after only 4-5 days together? Much better than some would have thought going in.

Great going to CLG being the first NA team to ever win a "best of" against a Korean team. Granted JAG are going through a change and not a top tier Korean team but CLG is going through changes too so it's about even.

Speaking of that, let's give it to Stixxay. Guy should be given the starter spot DL left.

Yea, Stixxay looked good. He showed flashes of slick mechanical play and he didnt buckle under the pressure. Wasn't this like his first time ever on LAN? I think he should be given a shot.

Huhi is suspect to me. He literally only looked good pulling off 2 flashy Azir plays that didnt even get a kill. Half the time he was missing ults, losing lane, or going yolo and baiting his team. Sometimes when people died or CLG lost a bad fight, you could lead it right back to Huhi going solo Q mode. Honestly, out of the mids already in NA LCS, he looks to be the worst so far. Alex/GBM/Incarn/Bjerg, and hell, even shiptur look better than him. And I honestly dont think you can be a top team without a top mid laner. I just dont think its possible.

TrollFan01Nov 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yea, Stixxay looked good. He showed flashes of slick mechanical play and he didnt buckle under the pressure. Wasn't this like his first time ever on LAN? I think he should be given a shot.

Huhi is suspect to me. He literally only looked good pulling off 2 flashy Azir plays that didnt even get a kill. Half the time he was missing ults, losing lane, or going yolo and baiting his team. Sometimes when people died or CLG lost a bad fight, you could lead it right back to Huhi going solo Q mode. Honestly, out of the mids already in NA LCS, he looks to be the worst so far. Alex/GBM/Incarn/Bjerg, and hell, even shiptur look better than him. And I honestly dont think you can be a top team without a top mid laner. I just dont think its possible.

That awkward moment when you're trying to win and your new mid goes full soloQ lol. I'm going to chalk it up to nerves and give him another chance. No reason to condemn him right off the bat.

Stixxay is ballin though and he should totally take Doublelift's spot. CLG's Wildturtle answer to Chaox.

DestructoDaveNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That awkward moment when you're trying to win and your new mid goes full soloQ lol. I'm going to chalk it up to nerves and give him another chance. No reason to condemn him right off the bat.

Stixxay is ballin though and he should totally take Doublelift's spot. CLG's Wildturtle answer to Chaox.

I hope. I mean, I like seeing new talent that didn't get a shot, instead of a constantly revolving door of pros because teams are scared to take a chance. But, he does look to be the weakest Mid atm. Unless Gate plays on TIP. Pobelter is on another team, and hes better, too.

Yea Stixxay looked great for his first pro games and pro lan. Remember what Incarnation looked like for 85% of a split? And hes possibly the 2nd best mid in NA now. Stixxay looked pretty good. It also shows that there is talent in NA, that just needs a chance. I dont blame teams for going after koreans or strong EU players, because the bad part of LCS is you have to stay on top for money, and you cant risk giving new players a chance and getting relegated. Look how close C9 got to possibly not even being in the LCS. Had they stayed with Meteos, I honestly think they get relegated. And, thats from 1 change. So, I can understand teams not wanting to try solo Q talent. But Stixxay looks really good, tbh.

TrollFan01Nov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I hope. I mean, I like seeing new talent that didn't get a shot, instead of a constantly revolving door of pros because teams are scared to take a chance. But, he does look to be the weakest Mid atm. Unless Gate plays on TIP. Pobelter is on another team, and hes better, too.

Yea Stixxay looked great for his first pro games and pro lan. Remember what Incarnation looked like for 85% of a split? And hes possibly the 2nd best mid in NA now. Stixxay looked pretty good. It also shows that there is talent in NA, that just needs a chance. I dont blame teams for going after koreans or strong EU players, because the bad part of LCS is you have to stay on top for money, and you cant risk giving new players a chance and getting relegated. Look how close C9 got to possibly not even being in the LCS. Had they stayed with Meteos, I honestly think they get relegated. And, thats from 1 change. So, I can understand teams not wanting to try solo Q talent. But Stixxay looks really good, tbh.

Gate was originally supposed to be TIP's support but then XWX got banned and a whole bunch of shit went down for TIP. I think Stixxay will be a lock for CLG's starting position unless they get Forg1ven or Freeze.

As soon as GBM gets here we can see Incarnation and Bjergsen get challenged and used to Korean mid laners like Bjergsen and Hai did last year against Chinese mid laners b/c of XWX. This can only be good for NA.

DestructoDaveNov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Gate was originally supposed to be TIP's support but then XWX got banned and a whole bunch of shit went down for TIP. I think Stixxay will be a lock for CLG's starting position unless they get Forg1ven or Freeze.

As soon as GBM gets here we can see Incarnation and Bjergsen get challenged and used to Korean mid laners like Bjergsen and Hai did last year against Chinese mid laners b/c of XWX. This can only be good for NA.

I dont think GBM is that great. Honestly, Bjerg has pretty much stomped people in lane everytime. Even Faker said he is good in lane, he just doesnt have awareness and gets ganked. Bjerg pretty much manhandled Nagne on leblanc at worlds. And, Incarnation seems just about as good laning wise. I honestly dont think GBM will be as good as either of those 2. Esp. Bjerg. If anything, this should hopefully put to rest that mediocre korean players can just go to other regions and dominate like Faker.

Really, when we compare these mids, its generally in 1v1 scenarios and in lane, and Bjerg pretty much beats everyone in lane. The game falls apart later in teamfights, but thats the one thing I can give the guy. He's a beast laner.

TrollFan01Nov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I dont think GBM is that great. Honestly, Bjerg has pretty much stomped people in lane everytime. Even Faker said he is good in lane, he just doesnt have awareness and gets ganked. Bjerg pretty much manhandled Nagne on leblanc at worlds. And, Incarnation seems just about as good laning wise. I honestly dont think GBM will be as good as either of those 2. Esp. Bjerg. If anything, this should hopefully put to rest that mediocre korean players can just go to other regions and dominate like Faker.

Really, when we compare these mids, its generally in 1v1 scenarios and in lane, and Bjerg pretty much beats everyone in lane. The game falls apart later in teamfights, but thats the one thing I can give the guy. He's a beast laner.

I think you're right and Bjergsen will keep his title as the best mid NA even with a Korean here.Put that myth to rest as well.

iamleburkDec 1, 20151 votes

Maybe in lane, but he has shown some pretty big mess ups in teamfights. Maybe not having to shotcall will fix that.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 25, 20151 votes

Got past LGD with no trouble? Were we watching the same games? LGD is a terrible team and TSM struggled to put them away both games. But honestly with how bad the competition was at this tournament and that the patch it was on is completely irrelevant I wouldn't even try to draw conclusions about the strength of the teams that participated. I mean we are now in an ADC centered meta as oppossed to a top centered meta that they played on in patch 5.21 so who knows how these teams are responding now. Also everyone in attendance had multiple roster changes with the exception of OG who had one and it was with a player that has been in the LCS for over a year now.

TrollFan01Nov 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Got past LGD with no trouble? Were we watching the same games? LGD is a terrible team and TSM struggled to put them away both games. But honestly with how bad the competition was at this tournament and that the patch it was on is completely irrelevant I wouldn't even try to draw conclusions about the strength of the teams that participated. I mean we are now in an ADC centered meta as oppossed to a top centered meta that they played on in patch 5.21 so who knows how these teams are responding now. Also everyone in attendance had multiple roster changes with the exception of OG who had one and it was with a player that has been in the LCS for over a year now.

LGD were a good team in the LPL when they came in 2nd during Spring and won Summer. Plus LGD were one of the heavy favorites to win Worlds before they fell on their face. You made a point about many teams rebuilding (TSM among) but LGD were the only team there that did not change its roster. A new TSM beat a complete LGD and showed what they can do already. Once TSM gets more practice together they ll be a shoe-in for yet another NA title.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 26, 20151 votes

LGD doesnt' have the same head coach they had during the LPL summer split, thats why the crashed an burned at worlds and why they are still mediocre now. It does you no good to try to make TSM's victory sound more impressive by over rating LGD based on past accomplishments in previous meta's and coaching staffs. The LGD that won summer split is not the one that showed up to worlds or IEM.

NeoDeimosNov 26, 20154 votes

LGD doesnt' have the same head coach they had during the LPL summer split

Oh, so you're saying LGD should be BETTER than they were during the Summer split? Cause they certainly weren't great during the Summer split regular season. In fact, they were barely average. In China's Best of 2 format (don't get me started on how ridiculous China's scoring system is), LGD finished with 6 wins, 12 ties, and 4 losses; an actual W/L total of 24-20... barely above average. (And they had that same 24-20 game record in the Spring split, for anyone who thinks that their Summer split was just a "slump")

And yes, they were in fact total trash against the top tier Chinese teams: Of the other 5 teams that won more games than they lost, LGD went a combined 0 wins, 6 ties, 4 losses in Bo2 series... which is a 6-14 overall game record... Yea, they were THAT BAD in the regular season against teams that were actually good.

Let's face it; LGD is a team that got hot during the playoffs in China, and hadn't done anything before or since. Essentially, they're a fluke.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 26, 20153 votes

You have a really weird hate boner for LGD that I really didn't ask about or need to know. I said that LGD were capable of performing better than they have as evident of their LPL playoff run. I called them bad as a result of a changing meta and a loss of a proven head coach for some random guy no one has heard of.

So how does TSM struggling to beat this team count as an accomplishment then? Based off that one series the guy i responded to said "TSM will be fine, " since he considers the loss to OG to be expected.

TrollFan01Nov 26, 20153 votes

I'm not over stating LGD what they did is a fact and a TSM with a 4/5 new roster with with clear synergy issues still beat them. All LGD got was mistakes TSM made.

TSM will be fine as they only had 4 days to practice together. Origen on the other hand were the opposite. 4/5 the same and still had their synergy. They were the most logical choice for winners.

Do you hate TSM and LGD or not see/care what everyone else is talking about?

YCitizenSnipsYNov 26, 20152 votes

TSM vs LGD was a shit show that was decided by who threw less.

You're just using LGD"s past accomplishments to make them sound like a better team than they are to make TSM"s victory over them seem more impressive. You're really gonna sit here and act like worlds didn't happen where LGD just completely self destructed and pretend that LGD is still the same team they were in the LPL summer finals.

I mean you even admit that you wont consider that ass whopping they got form OG in your prediction for the team because OG were good. So if a good team shouldn't lose to this TSM team then what the hell do you call LGD who got 2-0'ed by them. Because I would call them bad.

There was absolutely noting at that tournament that proves TSM will be good this next split. But you can over rate TSM all you want. It wont be the first time I've seen you TSM fans over rate them for their performance at a IEM tournament with terrible competition.

TrollFan01Nov 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

TSM vs LGD was a shit show that was decided by who threw less.

You're just using LGD"s past accomplishments to make them sound like a better team than they are to make TSM"s victory over them seem more impressive. You're really gonna sit here and act like worlds didn't happen where LGD just completely self destructed and pretend that LGD is still the same team they were in the LPL summer finals.

I mean you even admit that you wont consider that ass whopping they got form OG in your prediction for the team because OG were good. So if a good team shouldn't lose to this TSM team then what the hell do you call LGD who got 2-0'ed by them. Because I would call them bad.

There was absolutely noting at that tournament that proves TSM will be good this next split. But you can over rate TSM all you want. It wont be the first time I've seen you TSM fans over rate them for their performance at a IEM tournament with terrible competition.

Past accomplishments is what people ALWAYS use and it's what we have to go on. Plus this is the off season, what else is there to use? LGD was the most complete team going into the tourney and TSM was almost entirely rebuild so it IS impressive... if a bit sloppy. I know Worlds happened. I watched it. EVERYONE was shocked at what happened to LGD. You're leaving out how they turned things around a bit in the 2nd week when they beat TSM and Origen.

OG was the more complete team only changing one member and xPeke was still there so it wasn't a hard choice to make. LGD is a good team but they can't seem to do shit internationally. LGD beat EDG, the same team that beat SKT at MSI. You act like LGD hasn't done shit. They're a good team that TSM beat.

Yes there is. They did well against LGD and almost made a comeback in both games against OG. You're underrating TSM by ignoring what they did here. TSM did poorly at IEM last year and this year they won the World Championship. It wasn't overrated. It was and still is a big deal for an NA team to win an International tournament. TSM beat CJ Entus and the team that beat the Koo Tiger, the Silver medalists at Worlds this year. You're just hating for the sake of hating. Why are you so mad? DO you hate TSM because they're successful?

YCitizenSnipsYNov 26, 20152 votes

You never use past accomplishments because they mean nothing in the present. This was proven by LGD who were rated as a team that could win worlds based off of them beating EDG 3-0, Since EDG was the team that beat SKT. And what happened, LGD went 2-4 and got humiliated and EDG got stomped by SKT in both the game they played in groups. Those past accomplishment accounted for noting at worlds just like they account for noting now.

If Origen is a good team and there was no doubt that they would beat TSM, they how can you say with a straight face LGD is a good team when they lost 2-0. LGD is not a good team and TSM"s win over them isn't impressive nor did it prove anything. Also TSM was never close toe beating OG in either game, you just like over rating TSM.

Last years IEM was full of terrible competition notice how no one that played their was present at MSI where the #1 seed from each region played. I wouldn't be surprised if a TSM fan such as yourself doesn't remember MSI I mean it is where they got exposed after having to face real competition.

I'll say it again TSM got an unexpected win over a bad team and lost to a good team as expected. It proves noting about how good they will be. Also I cant really be Jealous of TSM as a C9 fan, they beat TSM twice in the summer split and had the only respectable showing for NA at worlds while TSM finished worse than a wild card region at 1-5. Successful Kappa.

TrollFan01Nov 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You never use past accomplishments because they mean nothing in the present. This was proven by LGD who were rated as a team that could win worlds based off of them beating EDG 3-0, Since EDG was the team that beat SKT. And what happened, LGD went 2-4 and got humiliated and EDG got stomped by SKT in both the game they played in groups. Those past accomplishment accounted for noting at worlds just like they account for noting now.

If Origen is a good team and there was no doubt that they would beat TSM, they how can you say with a straight face LGD is a good team when they lost 2-0. LGD is not a good team and TSM"s win over them isn't impressive nor did it prove anything. Also TSM was never close toe beating OG in either game, you just like over rating TSM.

Last years IEM was full of terrible competition notice how no one that played their was present at MSI where the #1 seed from each region played. I wouldn't be surprised if a TSM fan such as yourself doesn't remember MSI I mean it is where they got exposed after having to face real competition.

I'll say it again TSM got an unexpected win over a bad team and lost to a good team as expected. It proves noting about how good they will be. Also I cant really be Jealous of TSM as a C9 fan, they beat TSM twice in the summer split and had the only respectable showing for NA at worlds while TSM finished worse than a wild card region at 1-5. Successful Kappa.

Then what do we use to gauge how a team will do? Does momentum not exist?

Actually TSM being LGD did prove that even disorganized TSM was able to beat the Chinese Champions and with further practice together they'll become great again. I'm not overrating TSM but you are underrating them. I said TSM turned it around a couple times in both games.

I highly doubt Cloud 9, SK Gaming, Koo Tiger, and CJ Entus were "terrible competition." I remember MSi and how the winner of that fell on its face at Worlds too. MSI ultimately meant nothing. It was a giant show match but it was fun.

First sentence is more or less right, but the games did prove TSM will be great together with more time. LOL! THAT EXPLAINS IT! You're an angry, dare I say salty, C9 fan. It all makes sense now. I could say- "so what? C9 beat TSM twice in Summer Split but lost 3-1 to TSM in the Spring Playoffs." There's no point in that though. C9 had a far easier group to TSM so that's not expected. If anything them not getting out of groups was far worse than TSM as they were 3-0 and then lost 4 straight. TSM is more successful. They're the most successful NA team ever. Most region titles, an International tournament win, and a killer new roster. You can't argue with these facts. Successful Kappa.

iamleburkDec 1, 20151 votes

Ehhhh i think you are ignoring what's happened to LGD at worlds. They completely imploded, like worse than CLG usually does in playoffs. I wouldn't call them a "complete" team right now, at least not mentally.

T RexHasTinyArmsDec 2, 20152 votes

LGD used to be a good team. I'm not sure if you watched the games you're referring to where they won in the LPL and looked great, but if you did you know how different that team looked compared to the ones that showed up at Worlds and IEM.

I think last split was possibly the weakest NALCS split in terms of having any consistency or much depth to the top talent. This split things are going to be much more difficult if the rosters end up being what people are predicting and they gel right. I think TSM will be one of the favorites, but I'd say "shoe-in" is probably over selling it. I know Yellowstar is confirmed leaving Fnatic, but I'm not sure if he's confirmed TSM or that's just rumor. If TSM fills out the roster w/ Yellowstar they may get close to being a lock to win bc I think he fixes what has been wrong w/ TSM for a while now. They need shot calling in the right spot. Both DL and Bjerg are mechanically great for NA, and making them take on the pressure of shot calling means you're distracting from their job of just going ham that game. Yellowstar has great shot calling and is a really veteran player that shouldn't have trouble getting the respect of his teammates and helping to mold the team into one unit, which is what TSM needs and has lacked in the past.

That said, if they don't get Yellow it could be rough. W/out the cohesion that a veteran shot caller can bring (especially one who can help ground DL and keep him working w/ the team and not becoming frustrated w/ the team), they may struggle against some of the new line ups. While RNG and NRG aren't the most amazing line ups they are great line ups for rookie teams and should help bring up the strength of mid/lower tiers, which means less games that don't push the top teams in terms of effort and resources. With Rush on C9 they look like they may become really scary again (although Balls hasn't won lane in a while, so I think Rush will just be covering up that weakness and relying on bot/mid lanes unless they get a new top or balls improves). Liquid always has some level of potential, but esp w/ quas being out they may be up in the air in terms of strength. Also, don't forget CLG. They looked really solid in their IEM games, and I think there's a decent chance that next season meta may really play to their strengths. I think Darshan has shown he is one of the strongest split pushers in NA (I'd argue strongest split pusher NA and competitive w/ top split focused players in stronger regions even), and w/ strength out of some champs in solo que like Jax, Mundo, Trynd, Etc then depending on how much they get gutted vs not the CLG split push style may be really really strong and that would be a huge advantage for them this season.

TrollFan01Dec 3, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=T RexHasTinyArms,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=rzPnEvrH,comment-id=0000000100000002,timestamp=2015-12-02T07:42:07.187+0000)

LGD used to be a good team. I'm not sure if you watched the games you're referring to where they won in the LPL and looked great, but if you did you know how different that team looked compared to the ones that showed up at Worlds and IEM.

I think last split was possibly the weakest NALCS split in terms of having any consistency or much depth to the top talent. This split things are going to be much more difficult if the rosters end up being what people are predicting and they gel right. I think TSM will be one of the favorites, but I'd say "shoe-in" is probably over selling it. I know Yellowstar is confirmed leaving Fnatic, but I'm not sure if he's confirmed TSM or that's just rumor. If TSM fills out the roster w/ Yellowstar they may get close to being a lock to win bc I think he fixes what has been wrong w/ TSM for a while now. They need shot calling in the right spot. Both DL and Bjerg are mechanically great for NA, and making them take on the pressure of shot calling means you're distracting from their job of just going ham that game. Yellowstar has great shot calling and is a really veteran player that shouldn't have trouble getting the respect of his teammates and helping to mold the team into one unit, which is what TSM needs and has lacked in the past.

That said, if they don't get Yellow it could be rough. W/out the cohesion that a veteran shot caller can bring (especially one who can help ground DL and keep him working w/ the team and not becoming frustrated w/ the team), they may struggle against some of the new line ups. While RNG and NRG aren't the most amazing line ups they are great line ups for rookie teams and should help bring up the strength of mid/lower tiers, which means less games that don't push the top teams in terms of effort and resources. With Rush on C9 they look like they may become really scary again (although Balls hasn't won lane in a while, so I think Rush will just be covering up that weakness and relying on bot/mid lanes unless they get a new top or balls improves). Liquid always has some level of potential, but esp w/ quas being out they may be up in the air in terms of strength. Also, don't forget CLG. They looked really solid in their IEM games, and I think there's a decent chance that next season meta may really play to their strengths. I think Darshan has shown he is one of the strongest split pushers in NA (I'd argue strongest split pusher NA and competitive w/ top split focused players in stronger regions even), and w/ strength out of some champs in solo que like Jax, Mundo, Trynd, Etc then depending on how much they get gutted vs not the CLG split push style may be really really strong and that would be a huge advantage for them this season.

LGD just had some sort of collapse of epic proportions.

I couldn't agree more on the NALCS being weakened this year. It felt like CLG's victory was more like every other team collapsing around them than them getting better. I'm certain if TSM does end up getting Yellowstar then they're a lock to win the Spring Championship as well as 90 CP and $50,000. YS is a player who will get instant respect especially form Bjerg and Sven as they're both both EU players originally. DL will KNOW he can trust YS and accept anything and everything he has to say. Plus YS being a great shotcaller will allow Bjerg and DL to cut lose and not have to worry anymore about dividing their attention.

Yes without YellowStar TSM will have some big problems on their hands. RNG and NRG will be tough but I don't think they'll be contenders this split. Still going to take some time getting used to each other. C9 on the other hand will be a huge problem and the most likely opponent for TSM or anyone in the finals. Liquid lost Quas recently due to suspension but they have 3-4 months to get things cleared so maybe a moot issue. CLG will be tough too as Stixxay proved himself at IEM.

Next season is shaping up to be great for NA. Last year when LMQ came to NA it forced us to get better so hopefully with all this influx of foreign players will have the same affect.

OHminusNov 26, 20155 votes

To summarize:

LGD sucks, and needs an actual jungler + shotcaller
TSM's future looks bright with all the roster changes
JAG is suffering from Korean Exodus pt. 2
CLG is fine w/o DLift
OG might contend for EU #1

FacyNov 24, 20152 votes

So Origen is a great team and heavily outclassed TSM and CLG and NA is still shit afterall. Great Article enjoyed reading it.

NeoDeimosNov 26, 20154 votes

Remember that one time when Origen defeated a team that had one member returning, and an entire 4 days of practice leading up to the event? On a patch that is completely irrelevant to the upcoming Season 6 changes?

Also, your post essentially claims that NA is better than Korea as well. If you claim that EU > NA because Origen defeated a TSM team that is over-hauling 4 out of 5 spots, and a CLG team replacing ADC and mid... and that same CLG team knocked off a Korean team (as well as EU's own UoL); then by your logic, NA > KR as well.

TrollFan01Nov 26, 20153 votes

Thank you!

FacyNov 26, 20152 votes

Have u even read what i wrote? I doubt it... delusional NA fan that feels offended is always cute.

Read the article and after that read my comment again and maybe this time try using at least one of your braincells....

SpookyPowaNov 26, 20152 votes

While I completely agree with you on the fact that TSM just re-built before IEM, I think the context was balanced for both teams in the CLG vs OG match-up.

First, their respective standings in LCS are similar (OG #2 and CLG #1). This said, let's give less credit to the CLG win over UOL. Although this win was well-deserved, UOL is placed really lower than CLG in terms of standings. Same for Jin Air, not to mention the fact they lose GBM and used several substitutes.

About the roster changes : Yes, Pobelter left, but HuHi was already a sub and played with the team several times, including before Worlds, when Xmithie had Visa issues. Don't forget that OG also changed his Midlaner just a few days before IEM. In the same fashion, while CLG changed their ADC, it's important to note that OG went to IEM San Jose without a proper coach, as xPeke had to fill this position.

Fluff2Nov 26, 20151 votes

Well there weren't any pro Korean teams such as Skt. We're saying that Na is better than some of the Koreans

DanterminaterNov 30, 2015

Jin Air is still in the LCK, even if they aren't a top team

iamleburkDec 1, 20151 votes

This was fine untill you included CLG>UOL. Like is it really supposed to be impressive to beat a team that looks like it should be relegated next split?

Fluff2Nov 26, 20151 votes

Funny how everyone just forgot about Cloud9 who defeated Tsm in the summer split with and without Hai Lgd is a joke they should be like in a Cs tournament good job to Clg I'm impressed Tsm? I'm disapointed sure they heated Lgd but Lgd is a underperforming team it's like a random group of challengers brought together at the last minute

Anakin The WeirdNov 27, 20151 votes

It's not that EU>NA It's just that Fnatic and Origin>Everyone except Korea

Lucky IccyDec 1, 20151 votes

I wouldnt even say that, there is just such a divide between regional and international play. I mean saying Korea is the best isnt full on true when what you mean in SKT is the best, same with basically every player that matters in EU being on Fnatic or OG.

Its not a region that is head over heels better as much as the top 2 maaaaybe 3 team from each region are in 1 league, then everybody else at the bottom

Real best is like

NA--No real chance a team from here wins anything, good players exist but overall even CLG or TSM cant hold up vs the tier 1 stuff

EU-Fnatic...and Fnatic 2.0 aka OG

LMS-Flash Wolves and AHQ showed they can win games at worlds, I doubt they could take a Bo5 off anyone but NA but still strong

LPL--Actually I think China just underperformed at Worlds by a mile. Going in I wasnt like "OMG LPL will win"(everyone had SKT as favs) but I wouldnt had been shocked if LGD, EDG or hell even IG held up the cup.

LCK--Hey guys SKT is the best team in the World right now...Koo and KT are pretty good to but it doesnt matter, as SKT will beat them everytime

Every other team(until next season when every roster is 100% different lol) really didnt matter this year and serves only to let the these guys shine...and in fact NA really just could not have existed this year and would have done little to change anything other than the IEM waaaay back why top tank meta was in and Dyrus mattered