TSM or OG

[{quoted}](name=lvl I Bidoof,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qMEAF2Jv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-18T03:13:38.295+0000)

All the teams in europe are pretty weak compared to the rest of the world (minus fnatic) and id compare europes #2 and #3 seed to NAs #5-6th seed in terms of relative power

Excuse me, but this is based on what? Talent? Europe has deeper talent pool than NA at any role but ADC Game strategy? Na has slacked behind every region this season Pick and ban phases? Heck no

Thing is, and it ssomething i notice alot.. is that people dont come with clear cut arguments.. its always they plady x well x so i expect.. which makes no sense.

The thing about TSM thats lacky is their macro/rotations. They're playing an old meta.. as NA usually does. Play passive - make hardly any plays macro wise - teamfight. - Yes TSM has come back from a deficit before, in NA, where people make huge macro mistakes and the macro play is generally very, very sluggish making turtling the game out easy.

Now OG, contrary to fnatic isn't a team that puts full pressure on you. But they are smart macro wise. Peke is still known for his map play, he invented the backdoor. Dyrus isn't going to win the 1on1 vs soaz. Dyrus plays tanky champs, soaz plays more playmakey champs, and most likely will push dyrus in aka pressure.

TSM has to be real on point to realize what's happening macro wise, cause if they dont recognize one rotation from OG, it's gonna be over. It's fine not being great at making plays at macro's as long as your champ select allows - and you recognize the opponents movements. OG is a very, very good team at taking away the vision once they get ahead.

IF OG gets a lead, it's gonna be over for TSM. If they tie, well both teams are good at teamfighting, OG on the other hand is smarter on the macro.

i'd say up front 60/40 OG vs TSM, maybe even 70/30. OG has to many tools to take smart cross map objectives. The problem is TSM is no playmaking team macro wise. They're arent unlucky or in a slump, they're just not going along with the time - And quite honestly I think they're to weak to do so, playing passive and farm under the turret, late game teamfight meta was easy..

Unless TSM really started playing entirely differently, they have a chance in general in groups. But I don't expect that as the individual class and champion pools don't alllow them to do that.

I dunno. xPeke is used to playing very cautious poke champs, and I don't know if Santorin can really put the pressure on him. Just feels like xPeke has been playing under tower all Summer.

It doesn't matter if peke keeps bjergsen in place or not, OG is smarter macro wise, Dyrus is gonna get pressured as always. And peke WILL take advantage of that.

TSM isn't ever gonna be a worldclass team with the current roster, some ( bjergsen ) have the indivual mechanics, but as it stands , non of them play the macro correctly. - Some might be able to - But simply cause some of the members arent able to hold their own indivually, the chain breaks if they dont help those individuals. AKA Santorin isn't the problem why dyrus gets fucked over, its the fact that dyrus is a player that doesn't, or bluntly said, cant play playmakey champs and put the pressure on the opponent.

Dyrus getting pressured, is 1 part of the macro chain thats flawed, but it isn't just toplane. And no matter how hard they train on their macro, most of the TSM players hit their individual micro ceiling in their respective lane and will get pressured by greater opponents or players with extended champion pools. That means those lanes will get pressured, which means no macro plays are to be made and the opponent will slowly but surely ( or fast like fnatic did, and thast just fnatic ) take your objectives.

TSM might do fine against lower opponents, which makes people think ( that don't understand the game that much ) they could take on bigger opponents if they "get better". - They simply just.. cant.

Obviously they have a chance against OG, OG has flaws, enough of them. But a team with a simple plan and just mediocre individual class can take TSM down 7-8 out of 10games. the whole "TSM is good in best of 5's " .. "they grow in the tournament" all that is just plain bullshit. Their indivudla mechanics or macro play doesn't get better. And quite honestly their macro is complete utter garbage. It's INSANELY slow, transparent, and no room for improvement due to lack of individual skill from the playmakers ( apart from bjergsen maybe )

Hai used to be great with C9 at getting the most out of the game objectives wise at that date with the material ( the players and their respective individual skill ) - Getting cross map objectives - Trade objectives all day until you teamfight and cross fingers - Which worked against low/mediocre teams ( not to forget the laneswap into 4man push ) .. But TSM doesn't even get close to that shotcalling - And even if they would have that... Its not even close to enough beating the top tier teams.

Unless Dyrus suprises us with new champions added to his champ pool, no passive toplane play and actual pressure/playmakey style, santorin plays the map better, bjergsen actually transitions his "dominance" ( he still gets outlaned by the top midlaners ) I actually expect a repeat of what happened at MSI.

Forget about TSM, and focus on CLG if you want a team to do slightly well from NA.

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I have followed both team and in all honestly, expecting them to both play at there best I can see OG taking the win. TSM is still too reliant on Bej and Xpeke will hold him in place. Turtle has moments of exceptional play but overall I think will not be able to break through much against the OG bot lane. But the BIG issue for TSM will be the top lane, as 1v1 Dyrus is going to get destroyed by SoaZ, I mean it will be a great match and heavily dependant on the performance of the teams respective junglers, but overall I just cannot see TSM coming out of this match.

Although I don't disagree, there is something call lane swapping. If TSM can play a strategic lane swap and roam here and there, they might be able to pull out a surprise here and there.

Anything can happen.