Support Remilia and other female players

jenmeyer·Aug 13, 2015·170 votes·27,102 views

When I first saw Renegades playing and my husband told me that the support player was female I was ecstatic! However, when he told me that if they made it to the LCS she may not stay on the team, I was really disappointed. After finding out that she suffers from anxiety and receives criticism for being a female, I just want to show her and other players like her support. I'm watching the NA CS finals will posting this and I was so excited to see that she was able to make it on the stage in front of the crowd to play. Regardless if they win or lose, I hope that this helps her stay in the game because frankly she is a good player and is on a really good team. Please help me show her some support, and general support for all LCS players and those that want to make it in to the LCS. My personal feeling is that if you want to bash players, who are able to play on the LCS stage, makes you a very sad person and I feel sorry for you that you have nothing better to do with your time. A players skills should not be judged by anything other than their play. Constructive criticism is different than bashing a person for whatever reason, and I'm not against constructive criticism. This discussion is to show Remilia and players like her that while there are going to be people who are going to say mean things there are more people who are behind you and will support you. Please let me know if I have any information wrong. Thank you :)

Edit: So after reading some comments I have learned some things, and found some things. 1. Remilia is transgender, which does not affect the reason for this post. It confirms that every professional player of LCS needs support and Creative Criticism. 2. I did not mean to start a discussion about giving support to only female players, any player who is playing professionally needs support, some more than others 3. Not trying to make a martyr out of anyone, just stating a personal opinon 4. It is wonderful to see support for all different players. Thank you for reading and posting hopefully whatever Remilia decides works for her, and that she knows she has opened the door for other players out there :)

250 Comments

Dextix LTAug 13, 201577 votes

Tradicional hypocricity of women here. We want to be equal, yet we need to be treated special. (yea yea downvote it, go on)

If she earns a place, yet doesnt go becau0se shes anxious or something like that, then she isnt fit for the big stage. Even male players encounter a lot of hate, they deal with it and go on. If she cant, she is not fit for the job.

Edit: I will say it simply. I and noone else should care what you have between your legs.

If you play good, good luck, ignore the hate and keep doing it.

If you play bad, you will simply fall out, ignore the hate, and keep trying if that is what you wish.

sma11 catAug 13, 201554 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=jKdyHfgm,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-13T04:32:25.042+0000)

Tradicional hypocricity of women here. We want to be equal, yet we need to be treated special. (yea yea downvote it, go on)

If she earns a place, yet doesnt go becau0se shes anxious or something like that, then she isnt fit for the big stage. Even male players encounter a lot of hate, they deal with it and go on. If she cant, she is not fit for the job.

LOL, are you honestly suggesting that the crap she is taking from the community currently has ever occured to another male player? It's not even comparable. And her anxiety clearly did not affect her negatively on stage, she played very well. The anxiety likely has everything to do with being a transgender person in our ignorant society. And the league of legends community is on a whole other level.

Dextix LTAug 13, 201513 votes

I dont give a fck what gender are you, you can have nothing down there for all i care. Why should you care? Just dont look at the comments and thats it! Haters are going to find any reason to attack. Even if she was a guy she would be attacked but with another excuse.

If you cant ignore them and are anxious and dont want to LCS, that is your problem. Every famous person has and till today encounters hate like that, yet they still go on with their lifes.

I hate how everything is getting gender centered for no reason. Your gender is not what makes people attack you, its only their excuse to attack!

And yes, male players have death threats coming to them quite often actually.

PandemoniumHeartAug 13, 20155 votes

Why is it that women are attacked on the basis of gender (even as just an "excuse"), and men are not (on that "excuse"), in your mind?

Dextix LTAug 13, 201514 votes

We men get attacked on the basis of gender too. Especially these days.

This is at least how i perceive the world. A loud minority of Male "gamers" and manchildren cry out and use gender as ammo, as a spear to attack a person because they are just jealous or just simply stupid.

However, we are attacked too. Beccause of the actions of this lound minority all of us guy "gamers" are thrown in the same basket, and if we critique or do something like that we get labeled as myssoginists because we are male.

The situations are different, but in both cases the gender is used as a spear, as a hook to start an atttack and to label.

IcyPepperAug 13, 201563 votes

My motto is "Gamer first, gender second."

I won't give people special treatment due to their gender, but I won't accept anyone giving them shit for it either. So I'll support them, but I won't worship them. And I think that's what everyone wants, but we're not all mind-readers so communication is a bitch.

But if the girl is suffering anxiety issues and there's even a hint that people are going to be overly toxic toward 'em for some dumb reason, nothing wrong with sticking up for them and representing. Throw a tweet, watch their game and encourage them. That's what fans do, right?

AspyrAug 13, 201513 votes

{quoted}

LOL, are you honestly suggesting that the crap she is taking from the community currently has ever occured to another male player? It's not even comparable. And her anxiety clearly did not affect her negatively on stage, she played very well. The anxiety likely has everything to do with being a transgender person in our ignorant society. And the league of legends community is on a whole other level.

ummm... did you forget about the time that Nien stepped down from clg because of all the shit he was taking from the community? To say a male player has never been shit on by the community is absolutely ridiculous.

SoMNiaAug 13, 201512 votes

You say that as if women aren't specifically targeted because of their gender in most areas of competitive gaming (among many other parts of gaming, game dev, and game press). If you really believe that, you simply aren't paying attention. If you think it's only an excuse for the attacks, you have missed the issue of why it's possible for people to use that as an excuse in the first place. If you are tired of people making things about gender, blame the people attacking women because they're women, and don't blame women for fighting back against this treatment. Women already get "special" treatment, and not the good kind. If you want to stop hearing about it, don't defend it, because then you're only enabling it to keep happening. And yes, if you call it normal and say "deal with it", you're defending it.

Dextix LTAug 13, 20153 votes

People arent used to females in competative gaming, that is a fact, but that isnt the rreason they are targeted. They are targeted because they are good and because others are jealous. Gender is only a "hook" to grab on and to hate on someone. It is only used as an excuse for those who want to hide their own insecurities.

There is nothing to fight against. You go and do what your like and in lcs your job. Someone hates you? Who cares. After a time people will accept this and those manbabies too.

Im not deffeding it, and im not calling it "normal", but this is what even male celebrities encounter.

"dealing with it" and ignoring the hate is the only way to fight against this shit. You cant argue with haters and if you will try to silence them even worse things will happen. If you ignore them, they will get tired because they will get no reaction.

LeeDarkAug 13, 20153 votes

Except gender is NOT a hook these haters grab on to when the gamer is a GUY. What part of that do you not fucking understand yet?

Dextix LTAug 14, 20152 votes

We have other hooks, one of them being instantly labeled as mysogonists. I dont see females getting the same treatment, do i?

We males have other hooks, because we are males. Females get other hooks, because they are females.

LeeDarkAug 14, 20151 votes

OH REALLY? Are you seriously going to claim you've never seen some woman dismissed as an "angry feminist" with absolutely NO REFERENCE to the argument she made?

But how about when, for example, a woman who works in journalism has a little bit of sex with a guy she writes articles about? And then the same thing happens with a male journalist and a woman he covers. Strangely, in BOTH cases, the women are the ones blamed for "lacking integrity."

What you don't seem to get is that gender is NOT a hook used on men. For EVERY hook used on men, there is a similar hook used against women. The sexist part is that there are NUMEROUS female-specific hooks that men never have to deal with. Your inability to recognize that is willful ignorance.

And you STILL have yet to answer the fact that you saying "It's not their fault for hating, it's YOUR fault for not ignoring it!" is some of the most blatantly obvious victim blaming anyone has ever seen.

Dextix LTAug 14, 20151 votes

Yea, but that is some, all of them are not being labeled. We males are getting labeled as one. I dont want to get into the gamergate shit, sorry man, i want to be as far away from that cesspool as i can. Both sides are extreme, too extreme.

There are gendder hooks for both genders, and we all are treated differently based on our gendders. I recognize that all of us are equal in opportunities that we get. I recognize that some people are racist/sexist. I however, do not recognize that we males are superior to women and that our gender isnt a hook to attack us.

Also, i have never said that, ever. I didnt say its not their fault for hating. That shit is bad, i have said that multiple times. However, you wont treat with these parasites by trying to argue with them. You treat with those parasites by denying them reaction, shutting off their food supply. Most of those parasites would not even speak if they were not heard. So if we ignore them, they will disapear, in time.

LeeDarkAug 14, 20151 votes

NO, both sides were not equal in that. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Claiming they were is easily the most ignorant shit I have ever heard. And yes, ALL of feminism gets labeled as "Angry feminists who believe in female SUPERIORITY" by not only MRA's, but people just like you who claim that they really believe in "egalitarianism."

"If you cant ignore them and are anxious and dont want to LCS, that is your problem."

You LITERALLY say there that THEIR hate is YOUR problem. So yes, you are blaming the victims for taking offense at hatred when you should be blaming the haters for hating in the first place.

It is very simple. You cannot claim to be an "egalitarian" if you refuse to even acknowledge the obvious disparities that exist. Now, I don't know where you are from--maybe the gender gap is much better in your country, but for most of the world, including America, the disparity is significant. You cannot shut your eyes to it and simply pretend that equality already exists.

Dextix LTAug 14, 20152 votes

Dude, i am not for MRA or against extreme feminists. I am in the middle. I dont want either side to get their way. And i do not label everyone with different views as the member of the "opposition". I realise that all of this has many sides.

Also, you take that sentence out of context. If you cant ignore the stress and the hate, LCS is not your place. Male pros also have to deal with it, they deal with different hate, but they still deal with it. If she cant, it is not her place. Their hate isnt her problem, its how she deals with it. Pros learn to shut it out, and if she cant, then she is not pro.

Equallity exists. Just because some miniorities dont agree with it, doesnt mean it doesnt. And you know, yea, it may be that i have not experiences what happens where you live. I live in Lithuania, an ex soviet state. And many of us were taught that everyone is equal. Woman wants to work at a steel mill? Knock yourself out, if you are strong enough.

But i experienced the other end of the stick too. As a boy, when i was little, i was bullied, by girls. Now it might sound funny, right? Why was i bullied? Because i was a guy, a weak guy, a smartass. They didnt like me. Not because of what i hace done. But because i was a guy. So when someone tells me that we males dont get shit for being male i lit the fck up. That is bullshit. We get shit too.

XyrneAug 13, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=jKdyHfgm,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-13T04:32:25.042+0000)

Tradicional hypocricity

Are... Are those even words?

WheatloafAug 13, 20152 votes

They're trying to be...

Dextix LTAug 13, 20158 votes

Hardy har har, lets make fun of the guy which is not a native english speaker.

WheatloafAug 13, 20156 votes

Don't the Boards have a built-in spellcheck feature? :s Though it only seems to pick up on "hypocricity".

I apologize, however. That was rude of me. I forget sometimes this isn't everyone's first language, thank you for reminding me.

B00B00Aug 13, 20152 votes

actually pretty well put for the most part.

MasterVidallisAug 13, 201512 votes

You must live in an alternate reality if you don't see the much, much higher level of toxicity, prejudice and just general misogyny female gamers still have to endure in the gaming community due to the hordes of immature little boys that don't know how to treat women like they're just people. You also seem to completely overlook the inherent challenge in just knowing she is the only female player in a stage with all males, and how much stress that adds to it that male players don't have to deal with it all.

Equality as a social concept doesn't mean sameness, it means fairness, so you know. We all should give a lot of support to her and all female players in this game to make them feel more welcome and respected. Because considering the history of how they have been treated, it's the least, fairest thing we privileged male players who are NEVER given shit or talked down to in this community, can do for them.

I'm teaching my girlfriend how to play league atm and you know what one of my first pieces of advice were? "Don't tell anyone you're female, too many players will just take the opportunity so say sexist shit and be even more harsh and toxic than usual". And you know what, it's fucking sad I have to warn her about that.

Dextix LTAug 13, 201515 votes

Just because a loud child and manbaby minority are against women doesnt mean its a systemic prejudice. So shes the only female? And? I couldnt care less what was between her legs. All i care i how good she plays. Male players have to deal with stress too.

Also, it seems quite funny that you talk about fairness then turn around and say "We must support gamer women because they are women" . No we shouldnt. This probably will be downvoted to hell, but no. We shoudlnt support them, neither we should reject them. We just need to accept them. That is all.

You are a gamer girl. Good for you. Should i care? No. I care only how good you are.

Being female doesnt make you a target, it just gives children and jeallous people ammo. And you deal with them how you always did. By ignoring them. If you cannot ignore them and cannot deal with the pressure, the big stage aint for you.

P.S. We "priviliged" Male gamers get shit for other things.

I am all for equal opportunities, and this is why i will say this. If you want to be a fan of her? Alright. You dont like her? Alright. But do all these things based on her performance rather than who she is.

MasterVidallisAug 13, 20159 votes

It's almost impressive to try this hard not get something because you don't like the implication you have privilege. I assure you are not alone in behaving like that though. Nobody gives a shit if "you" in particular "cares" or not about someone's gender, there is overwhelming evidence of systemic prejudice against women in the gaming community. If you treat everyone the same, good for you! It doesn't give you the right to simply to call people hypocrite for making a valid comment about a real problem and asking for support in addressing it. Specially when we hear these complaints from every female player. Are they all just making it up? How the fuck would you know? You are not a female in the gaming community.

Male players don't have to deal with stress BECAUSE THEY'RE MALE. Obviously they have other types of stress to deal with but that's irrelevant to this discussion, stop being so dense. You posting on and on about how YOU "don't see gender", as if, adds nothing to the discussion, while you dismissing other people's experience because you don't act that way or have seen it makes you part of the problem and is disrespectful.

Dextix LTAug 13, 201512 votes

I can you a hypocrite because your words are like that. You say that we should treat everyone fairly, i agree with that, but then you said that we should try and make the females better, just because they are females. That is hypocrisy. This aint a problem that you can adress by trying to please women, no! Then you create inequality for men.

Every PRO player has complaints, everyone one of them MALE or FEMALE get shat on, being female is irrelevant to hate, it is a spear used to attack a person.

Also, yea, im not a female, so what? Did people have to be black to march alongside King? I have 4 cousins, 3 of them are playing games and are female. I talk to them about this shit. Do they care? No. Someone insults them? Ignored. Simple as that.

Males deals with even more stress than you can ever imagine, and that is because they are male. Psychological research has proven that SCIENTIFICALLY. We males have more problems with stress and everything else concerning stress, than females.

Its not only me that doesnt care about what you have between your legs.

You are talking about systematic prejudice, when it just doesnt exist. Are there ANY RULES in place against females in any game? No. All we have is the lound minority of "gamers" which are stuck in the past and dont want to acknowledge that females game too.

What you are doing. Is generalizing. And this is what i hate most about all of this. Its females that are getting prejudice against them? Look at what shit we get? It takes a few people on social networks and all of us male gamers are maked as mysoginistifc assholes which are "privileged".

There is a problem, but its not systematic prejudice. Its a small group of manchildren which havenever seen a woman in their life besides their mothers. That is the only problem we have.

Mughi of RuckusAug 15, 20152 votes

No, not treat them better. Provide them with fairness. Giving them additional support in acknowledgment of the additional challenge they face isn't being hypocritical. They have a harder time. Ignoring that and saying anything that to acknowledge it is unfair or special treatment ignores the additional challenge they face.

No, people didn't have to be black to march with King. The people who didn't march and said, "What are they complaining about. They're free now! They have it just the same as us!" However, were hardly being fair to their cause.

Dextix LTAug 15, 20153 votes

Giving them support for being female is indeed not fairness. They should get their support for being good players. They have as hard time as males, both males and females are raged on the internet.

The king example doesnt work for your case. At that time there were laws against black people. I dont see laws against females in gaming. They havve the same possibities as us males.

VerxintAug 13, 20159 votes

This and this alone.

If you don't have the mental fortitude to crack it on the big stages, you don't belong there.

Look at Dyrus - people call for him to be benched every single split and every time TSM loses an important match or series. But he's still in there playing strong and picking up Quadra Kills on Olaf in the playoffs.

Furthermore - if you want people to stop caring about gender, you have to stop talking about it. The more energy you give it, the worse it will get.

KaisadiIIaAug 13, 20153 votes

Asking for "special treatment" for women when women are discriminated by a vast majority of the society isn't hypocrisy, is just being rational.

If we lived in a perfect paradise where people do not care about your gender, it'd be OK, but as long as people continues trashtalking about a woman just because she's a woman, of course we'll need to protect and defend them.

Dextix LTAug 14, 20152 votes

If you want to be treated equaly, why do you want to have "special treatment" especially since only a minority of people in civilized world are actually discriminating against females?

AndroidYumiAug 13, 201520 votes

As trans gamer myself I send my love and support to Remilia. To be honest I'm not really public with the fact that I'm trans but just from conversations and all kinds of discussions I've had with certain people, I know the kind of hurtful and shocking things people can say about other human beings.

I hope that she gets help with her anxiety because it would be amazing to see a woman in the LCS

2008 Scene KidAug 16, 20154 votes

Agreed. Her stream is so chill too. She should duo with Gosu and support the grill duo. I hope she stays in NA too. Sucks the people are such assholes and have to hate someone regardless of how great a person is.

ShockforceAug 13, 201518 votes

I do not care that Remilia is female.

I support good players. And Remilia is a good player.

That said turning her into a figurehead without her indicating she is fine with becoming one will only suit to put her in a hard place.

SoMNiaAug 13, 20155 votes

I agree in principle, but I don't think that turning her into a figurehead is really the goal, here. Of course, given her position, it might be inevitable to some extent, and therein lies the problem. A distinction like "first woman in the LoL pro scene" (is she the first? IDK, I don't pay that much attention to the pros) is bound to attract attention no matter what you do. No one with any sense would blame her if she didn't want that. The only thing the rest of us can do is support whatever decision she ultimately makes.

TreeshrewAug 13, 201514 votes

Ready your downvotes.

You want to know what equality is?

Not getting special treatment.

You want to know what helps with not giving people special treatment?

Not going out of your way to make a point about someone's gender, gender identity, race, creed, ethnicity, or whatever.

Honestly, the fact that the OP has gone out of his way to make a major public post about this person's gender is discriminatory in itself.

The player behind the keyboard is not important. The summoner on the rift is the only thing that matters. Stop talking about this person's gender identity. You're not doing her any favors.

ralseiAug 13, 201511 votes

I feel like it's more than just that she's a woman, but a transgender woman too. The league community (well, gaming community in general) is usually very... not nice to transgender individuals. Especially trans women. She's a great support, great player, and I'm glad to see her in the pro scene.

I just hope we as a whole can get better about recognizing and putting down behavior that demeans women and other minorities.

WheatloafAug 13, 20158 votes

I'd appreciate if people wouldn't fuel the assumption that gamers are misogynistic assholes...

AuryielAug 13, 20152 votes

Hum.... there's an exceedingly vocal minority (I hope) that are and tbh what counts as far as perception goes is how vocal people are about their opinions. If no one tells idiots who give crap to a subset of people to stfu those idiots WILL end up looking like they represent the majority. If anything, the majority is still guilty of not shutting down the idiots and making it clear that this shit is not ok in our community.

LeeDarkAug 13, 20157 votes

When the larger, non-misogynistic gamer community remains silent in the face of clearly, blatantly misogynistic gamers, it is difficult for that stereotype not to develop. It isn't enough to say, only when asked, that you don't agree with them. You have to confront them just as loudly as they are.

Dextix LTAug 14, 20152 votes

How you deal with trolls and children? You ignore them until they get bored. If you dont ignore them, they will continue their behaviour just to get someone to shout at them.

LOL SpammerAug 13, 20152 votes

It's not just gamers... People are like this everywhere.

EspadaraAug 13, 20157 votes

[deleted]

ralseiAug 13, 201512 votes

Hi, yea, uh, she's a woman. Even if she did have a penis, she would be a woman. Genitalia =/= Gender.

EspadaraAug 13, 20157 votes

[deleted]

PandemoniumHeartAug 13, 201513 votes

Sure you can, because she is. And stop misgendering her.

Trying to say sex trumps gender (which you are implying) is hugely insulting to all trans individuals.

Remelia is no less a woman than anyone born with female genitalia.

Much like with gay rights, those that continue to try to put a wall in front of trans people will soon find themselves and their viewpoints falling by the wayside. It's only a matter of time.

ChaoticPineconeAug 13, 20155 votes

There are reasons why men arent allowed to participate in female sports - stuff like muscle development that gives an unfair advantage. I highly doubt it will fall to the wayside, and for example, the Olympics will allow any individual to participate in any sport due to the gender they identify with.

PandemoniumHeartAug 13, 20155 votes

I'm referring more to transmisogny/transphobia eventually becoming an outdated viewpoint, much like homophobia is becoming.

Physical sporting participation is more complicated and perhaps debatable, but has nothing to do with the situation here since e-sports is not really physically.

Generalized, essentially I'm calling to respect trans people an accept them for who they are. Don't misgender, don't insult, don't be a bigot about someone's personal life that has literally 0 affect on you. Transphobic bigots will, over time, soon find their views a stranger to the world; they should just accept trans people instead of trying to fight a losing battle against them.

ChaoticPineconeAug 13, 20156 votes

i was refering more to the portion where you said, which was a blanket statement toward transgender individuals:

{quoted}

Sure you can, because she is. And stop misgendering her.

Trying to say sex trumps gender (which you are implying) is hugely insulting to all trans individuals.

Remelia is no less a woman than anyone born with female genitalia.

If sex didnt 'trump' gender, we would see changes in athletics starting to break down the traditional male and female split. If gender 'trumps' sex, then the sex a person was born with shouldnt matter, right? So males who identify as female should be allowed in female competition, despite the biological advantage? (See e.g. Janae Marie Kroc, formerly known as Matt Kroczaleski).

Its has a lot to do with the situation here, despite what you might think. Just because the issue can be sidestepped at this moment doesnt mean it should. This is a prevalent issue in the gender vs sex dispute, and needs to be addressed. This simply isnt esports (and as far as I know, Riot isnt stopping females from entering the LCS, are they?). It goes deeper than that. Ignoring the problem until something huge comes along isnt going to help.

Its very different from homosexuality and homophobia. There is no 'gay gene'. There are no objective ways to distinguish between gay/straight and no biological differences between gay/straight. Gender and sex are a bit more fundamental than sexual orientation.

And maybe people just dont like Remilia for being Remila. She started a lot of drama on Reddit and did some questionable things. Maybe we just dont want people like Remilia playing in the LCS, just like we dont want spousal-abusers playing in the NFL.

PandemoniumHeartAug 14, 20152 votes

You're taking a really niche situation and trying to apply it to the general, and it's a poor argument. In that one instance, sex may matter more than gender (and even that's contestable, but I don't know enough of the ins and outs of that debate to look into that). That does not mean it goes for anywhere near all instances, or even most instances. Whether or not we accept cross-sex play for trans people does not mean we should not accept trans people in general.

Most aspects of gender are completely socially constructed. Every society places different expectations on each gender and we play them out. For example, sports and video games supposedly appealing more to boys, princesses and fashion supposedly appealing more to girls. There is no "gene" for these things either; they are a product of a society with gendered marketing and expectations. Gender is a lot more fluid than people think, which is why there are trans people in the first place. If gender was so set in stone, why would anybody go through the trouble of being trans?

And frankly, outside of the murky zone of athletics, what harm is there to you or anyone else if someone decides they are a different gender? Much like with someone being gay, where is the hurt?

Comparing people not liking Remilia for stirring drama on reddit to spousal-abusers in the NFL not being liked is a disgusting comparison. Last I checked, I hadn't heard of Remilia doing anything criminal; or anything remotely close to as bad as spousal abuse.