TSM Decision-making Super Questionable + Santorin Qs

Taruum·Jul 18, 2015·5 votes·1,228 views

What has happened to TSM's shotcalling/decision-making? At MSI, they would make decisive calls that took risks but generally paid off. Now in the LCS, it looks like the steam has been gut-shotted out of them. They're consistently holding the trigger but rarely pull it. They're more prone to dis-engaging than actually fighting. The mechanics are there (for the most part) but hesitation does NOT create momentum. Hence the losing streak.

Also, is it me or if now relegated C9 Meteos (or pretty much any other jungler in the NA LCS) were to join TSM, I don't think they'd be losing these games. I feel like Santorin plays very impactful champions, non-impactfully. For example, the game on right now, TSM vs TiP, I have yet to see Santorin make ONE impactful play with arguably the best jungler (Gragas). Where's the clutch Cask disengages or even more lacking, engages? Due to his lack of presence overall, teams feel that they can dictate the flow/feel of the game against TSM. Perhaps a benching for Santorin would create positive change, I haven't been a fan of his play since the Spring split. Bjerg's dominance allowed TSM to feel comfortable without fixing any of the glaring issues they've had all along. Now that teams are figuring Bjerg out, TSM can no longer ignore their issues. Just my 2 cents.

18 Comments

xGarzillaJul 18, 20154 votes

I completely agree with this. While Gragas is considered one of the top jubglers right now, Santorin seems to be very lack luster on him game after game.

They allowed Rush to get Nidalee, which imo was the DUMBEST thing they could have done knowing how well he plays him. They need to stop relying so much on Bjerg to make all the plays because teams are focusing him.

The calls to constantly pressure Impact too..... What? Cool you got the tank, but left ALL the damage dealers to farm and get stronger. Especially with Janna in the field, one ult and she nullifies Shen taunt.

I just don't know where these pick/ban decisions are coming from, their in game decisions seem very off and they just don't seem like the TSM who were steam rolling teams in the early weeks. They are not opening up to the changes with the recent patch and staying strictly super meta. Do something different.

LuggJul 18, 20153 votes

TSM has completely lost their "mystique". Teams in NA are no longer intimidated by them or scared of them. Their game plan is pretty simple to figure out, just don't let Wildturtle get Jinx and you are probably going to win since that makes Bjerg the only one who can carry. They way they are playing right now, they should be happy if they just make Worlds.

Earl EulrichJul 19, 20152 votes

yea, i really think it speaks for NAs improvment that TSM is no longer dominating the region. Ever since Regi left midlane they had been rather easy to figure out (with regi you never knew the bluecard-engage had been coming...he might have been lacking mechanics back then, but wow had they been deceisive on following up his calls, often turning around the missplays through sheer force of will), yet almost no team in NA managed to turn it against them. Now they get punished for the reactive playstyle like it should be - you just cannot expect to win games if you don´t make the plays yourself. TSM currently is just "playing not to lose" instead of "playing to win", it´s what made Alex leave Gambit back in S4.

LuggJul 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=j0zK6ttA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-19T13:40:01.390+0000) you just cannot expect to win games if you don´t make the plays yourself. TSM currently is just "playing not to lose" instead of "playing to win",

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

pE4CbxDPQOJul 19, 20152 votes

So Santorin plays a lot Rek'Sai and it seems really lackluster, but So (and I know they are completely different animals) when I watch him stream he carries like every fucking game on Rek. I think the team style as a whole is way to reactive and not proactive enough.

TaruumJul 19, 20151 votes

I think the team style as a whole is way to reactive and not proactive enough.

Good point, and you're 100% correct. Instead of looking for the kill, they're waiting for the opponent to strike so they can counter. Even the best counter strikers need to create their own offense when necessary.

Ale non è maleJul 19, 20151 votes

For being successful on champions like Rek'Sai, you got to have an advantage on map awareness, rotations and on decision making. Santorin probably has it in SoloQ but not in LCS i think he is one of the main reasons why the TSM teamstyle is not proactive enough

fapfapfapJul 18, 20151 votes

like regi said in the tsm episode, it all stems from communication, santorin cant make any moves if no one is talking to him about plans to make them

TaruumJul 18, 20151 votes

@Hanlin I honestly believe most of the other junglers in the league are at least level or above Santorin in skill/mechanics. Much less the elite such as Dominate/Rush/Meteos etc.

Darth Pixy MisaJul 19, 20151 votes

That is what Regi has been saying for 2 weeks that TSM is not being proactive. But Regi and Loco seem to not know how to change this.

PoisonedTeaJul 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Katrina Steiner,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=j0zK6ttA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-07-19T04:31:49.488+0000)

That is what Regi has been saying for 2 weeks that TSM is not being proactive. But Regi and Loco seem to not know how to change this.

Regi not been working with the team until last week so that is incorrect.

Nyx born SheepJul 19, 20151 votes

You know... they could just bring Oddone back in and see what happens.... kappa, kappa

TaredomJul 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nyx born Sheep,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=j0zK6ttA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-07-19T13:16:24.926+0000)

You know... they could just bring Oddone back in and see what happens.... kappa, kappa

As awesome as I think the General is, he's beyond out of practice, he's said it himself. Also isn't he supposed to be the team coach? (I may be wrong, read that on a wiki)

JimmyNtheKudosJul 19, 20151 votes

He's an assistant coach, but really all he does is just stream all day and be a team mascot. I think he had a more active role in coaching in S4, but if you watch TSM legends, he's pretty non-existant in the TSM house except for when he's in the background streaming. What's funny is that he's so out of practice, I think he's actually in Diamond.

TaredomJul 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He's an assistant coach, but really all he does is just stream all day and be a team mascot. I think he had a more active role in coaching in S4, but if you watch TSM legends, he's pretty non-existant in the TSM house except for when he's in the background streaming. What's funny is that he's so out of practice, I think he's actually in Diamond.

I think he hit masters recently, he also stated that he didnt get challenger last season until more spots opened up, even then he said he got it at the very end of the season.

He's still good and has solid opinions, he's just not the same player he used to be.

JimmyNtheKudosJul 19, 20151 votes

I've been saying this all split, Santorin plays way too safe. He has one of the best KDAs in NA, despite never actually making big plays.

Earl EulrichJul 19, 20151 votes

it´s not despite, it´s because he´s too afraid to do anything. That´s just the common missunderstanding of KDA - it just doesn´t win games. You can´t win vs anyone that is close to your level without dying every now and then - and if things go right for you your tanks will initiate and take the hits till they finally fall, while your carries come out ahead. For santorin though it´s mostly watching turtle fall and then use his cds to escape - instead of using it to get in front of turtle and die himself.

JimmyNtheKudosJul 19, 20152 votes

That's what I meant, I guess I wasn't clear. He has a good KDA, but doesn't actually bring anything to the table i.e. he's not making plays and getting kills he's just not dying.