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notice how there is no drama/issue with TSM and Keith? That is because Reggie went directly to the management to inquire about having Keith join their team. This is how it is supposed to work, this is how all legit sports work. You can not go directly to a player and try and convince them they would be better on your team or try and talk them into leaving their team.
To inquire about the status of a Team Member from another team, managers must contact the management of the team that the player is currently contracted with.
It's a very simple concept people. If you want to get a player from another team to join yours, just ask the person in charge of said player. If they say no, tough sh*t, you should have signed them first.
Who would have thought that Regi of all people would be the one to do it correctly.
Regi may be an unsavory character as far as how ruthless and careless he can be with his organization, and how the bottom line is his bottom line, but he's a savvy businessman and the trade methods he uses help to illustrate that. I personally hate the dude as far as his personality, but he's an admirable brand owner in every way that doesn't directly necessitate and involve human interaction.
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Yea, the way Loco says it implies they went to him and told him to start getting ready.
I wonder if Coast would have an case against Regi for taking Santorin. Or if GGLA would have a case for Curse taking Quas. It seems like if your a big name you can seem to be trusted more so than just a "challenger team". Well, unless your CLG. XD
TSM didn't "take Santorin", Regi went through the appropriate steps in recruiting Santorin. Coast management confirmed it.
Wait Didn't Keith say he was asked by Loco on League Client and they were duoing and he was like hey wanna tryout for TSM? Pretty sure in the interview / Posts that was mentioned him and Loco talked before they even asked TL ... Keith Said he thought Loco was trolling or messing with him at first then he was like oh Loco is serious ... Find Source later -
I think the only thing anyone from TSM said to Keith before Regi talked to Liquids manager was Regi saying that Keith should play a lot of solo Q. That's when Keith thought he was being trolled.
Mmm not exactly... In the video released, Keith states that Loco said to him at a party, "start playing a lot of soloq". I don't think that is in any way Loco poaching Keith. For all we know too, Loco may have already talked to Liquid management before this conversation occurred.
@riot
How about we Organize the Leagues Correctly so we don't have so many "tampering" cases. Or teams in the LCS without Players.
You all made a big deal about adding 2 extra teams this year. But Without some kind of contract off season or a free agency its Near impossible for Teams to fill rosters or even look for players without fear of breaking a RULE and being fined or banned From Competitive play.
The fact that this keeps happening to Many different organization, owners and players is a tragic lack of planning on RIOT's part!
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Create an off season for contracts so players and teams have legitimate time to look for offers and seek new teams. ( Common Sense here really.)
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Create Some type of free agency system so teams can approach and acquire Professional players without fear. (Again common sense.)
This would not only Solve these IGNORANT rules that are in place but would also Promote Competitive growth of the scene. As well as giving Professional players a way to intelligently look for opportunity's available to them.
Because I for one am tired of seeing multiple LCS teams fail Due to RIOTs POOR structure not allowing them to acquire players.
Sincerely,
Fans everywhere.
I know what Chris Badawi did was very bad...but the punishment is sooooo severe! forcing someone to sell their ownership is ridiculous. Would never hold up in court (unless specifically stated in the contract, which I doubt).
You can ban him from all LCS related events like you banned scarra and make him pay a big fine...but making him lose his investment is too much. There's no way he gets a good offer when he's forced to sell his part. If TDK or Misfits become big, his buy in costs next year are gonna be ridiculous.
I like riot, but they're trying to control something that they should have no authority over. Remember the racist NBA LA Clippers owner, Donald Sterling, initially they banned him from everything related to NBA, and a asked him to pay a huge fine. They pressured him into selling the team, but couldn't legally make him sell it. it just doesn't work that way
They aren't forcing him to sell the team. The ruling is this: "Teams Owned by Badawi Cannot Participate in the LCS." He can own the team, but if he retains ownership, the team is not eligible for the LCS.
Owning a League team that can't compete in the LCS is like owning a basketball team that can't play in the NBA.
Sure he could keep ownership, but you're bleeding money for no reason at that point.
That's the idea. Riot is a private company, and LCS is a private event (as in, not government), so both the NBA and Riot are in the right here. Owners must play by the league's (no pun intended) rules, or they're not able to participate in the league's (pun intended) activities.
It wasn't bad in any way.
What he did was pretend that Quas et al are not the slaves of Riot. How dare he! How dare he believe that adult human beings should be allowed to determine the course of their lives even in the face of what should be considered illegal and unconstitutional contracts of adhesion.
What a bastard for believing players have rights!
[{quoted}](name=Laredo Jones,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=gzaKFtTa,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2015-06-25T21:37:49.142+0000)
What a bastard for believing players have rights!
They do have rights. However, they also signed contracts.
If you dont want to be bound by a contract then dont sign it.
If you think the contract is illegal then feel free to take the company to court and get the contract voided.
I take it you have never signed a lease. That would surely violate your rights too.
Leases basically mean you sign your soul away.
Signing a contract is giving away your freedom (generally in what you consider to be a favorable trade).
I recommend you join the military. You might hate it, but you'll learn a lot.
this is bullshit lmao typical riot
How is it bs? Or are you just trolling? This type of stuff is illegal even in other sports (NFL, NBA, etc.).
still bs in any sport
It's not though. That's what the free agency period is for. Granted, that's why league should have a free agency period between the end of contracts if they don't already
They do, I think all contracts are set to end sometime after worlds (if the contract is set to end that year) and teams are able to pursue free agents between that time and roster lock. What I don't think they have are restricted free agency periods/rules in contracts. That should be put into place so that players can gauge interest the year before they are essentially unemployed (what they have to do now to gauge team interest).
they dont all tsm players end at 2018 lmao
After doing some research, Riot doesn't have a mandate for contracts to end at the same date, but they do have a defined Free agency period (starts in October for the Spring and starts at the end of April for Summer). Also, only 3 TSM players have contracts that end in 2018 (Lustboy, Bjergsen, Wildturtle) and all three of those agreed to contract extensions. It does seem that most contracts in NA end in November (probably to account for possibly going to Worlds and some lee-way for travel, etc.). So yes, LCS should add this to their guidelines for contract necessities, but this is also something that the players themselves should be advocating for in contract negotiations. All in all, it's coming time for the players to find some sort of representation for themselves to streamline some of these things
There is currently no FREE agency or contract down time requirement. This is the main issue and reason this keeps being an issue.
still bs in any sport
Judging from your little icon, you're a CLG fan.
"TSM just finished up their search for a new ADC ... SURPRISE!! Regi has been in contact with DoubleLift for a couple weeks now, and has managed to snag him away from CLG without ever contacting HotShot. Stay salty, CLG fans".
...I'm pretty sure you'd be crying to Riot if that ever happened.
I wouldnt care . For me, players should go where they get the highest paycheck.
Well... quite the clairvoyant I turned out to be. LiftLift actually DID end up with TSM!!
None of other sports have such... moronic "tampering" rules.
It creates more problems than it solves and Riot basically reserves for themselves the right to the whatever the fuck they want by making rules that include words such as "may", "could", etc.
They really need to rethink it, because under the current ruleset, players are effectively chained to the team for the duration of the contract to the point they can't even negotiate possible future contracts if the team owners decide to do so.
Not to mention that the 10.2.13 rule they're citing applies to the LCS participants, which Badawi currently is not.
Much in the same vein that they pulled some "failing to comply with LCS official's instructions" rule out of their collective asses to penalize Reginald for announcing a player joining the team.
In the NFL players can not be negotiated with directly, it has to either go though the agent or if there is no agent it has to go though the team management directly. So in this case he would have had to talk with Liquid management to get a player not the player himself.
None of other sports have such... moronic "tampering" rules.
The NFL's tampering rules are a lot harsher than this punishment, as are the NBA's. If you're going to talk like you know something, maybe you should actually know something.
Good on Riot for taking a firm stance on poaching and tampering, the strong stance is needed to further legitimatize the sport. However, I think that a union is going to be needed to be establish in the next couple of years, both for the players and owners benefit. While this ruling is a good one, larger owners are going to be hesitant to join unless there is some sort of arbitration process to be had in cases that Riot oversteps their powers in punishment.
All US sports bodies have tampering rules that are similar to this. If a player is under contract you can not even have a discussion with them behind closed doors even if you say you were talking about what to eat for lunch. Teams, coaches and owners will bend the rules or break them to get an edge but the rules are there and will be enforced with evidence.
The tampering rules are not the problem. They are fine. The issue is riot doesnt allow for any other way for teams to acquire or seek players. Every other US Sport has a FREE Agency of some kind. ect. The fact that this keeps happening only highlights riots Failure here.
Who knows, perhaps if more NA players were allowed to change teams, we'd see fewer Korean imports.
false. Look at TSM right now. Regi talked to the owner of TL about keith. TL said its cool. Keith is now trying out for TSM
Ummm... League of Legends has the exact same system. Players who do not currently have an LCS team are the equivalent of "Free agents." It is totally allowable to talk to these players in any capacity.
However, any player under contract (whether they are a starter or a backup) is protected in the exact same way they are in the NBA, NFL, etc. You cannot talk to another team's player about joining your team unless you first gain permission from their owner (because they are a party to the current contract).
I love all the people acting like League has ridiculous tampering laws because they apparently have never watched professional sports.... The NFL fined New York Jets owner Woody Johnson for merely responding to a question the MEDIA asked about a former player (Darelle Revis) by saying "yeah, I'd like to have him back on my team." Because Revis was under contract with the Patriots, that was considered tampering... He didn't talk to Revis about it, he didn't discuss numbers, he didn't offer a contract... all he did was tell a member of the media that he liked Revis.
Now tell me Riot is so "insane" with their rules...
Lol sorry there is no free agency set up or contract down time requirement, This isnt arguable there are posts on these boards from riot about making one. So I won't argue with your ignorance. And furthermore no one thinks the tampering rules are an issue here! Tampering is bad mkay!!! but the FACT that the issue could be solved by riot easily is the problem here.
And? I don't want to argue with your ignorance but how do you think it works in other professional sports? You talk about this "contract down time requirement" like this is something that exists in other pro sports but that's absolutely false. In the NFL players are free to sign extensions with their teams at any point during a current contract. They do not have to wait until they are "free agents" to do so. A player could remain with a single team under contract for the whole of his career and never become a free agent. In addition, if a player's contract ends and they talk to a single other team they are allowed to sign with that new team as soon as possible. They don't have to wait a certain number of days.
Furthermore, other than holding out and not playing, players in the NFL have absolutely no leverage when it comes to their contracts. Teams can cut them at any time, but players cannot opt out of their contract unless they have a special clause which allows them to do so in extenuating circumstances. However, there are almost no players (if any) with such a stipulation.
Like I said previously, it is correct that contracts which end in the same year all end on the same day (end of the league year) in most major sports, but other than that LCS players are similar to other sports. Players are required to honor their contracts throughout their duration and are not allowed to talk to other teams without permission from their owner until its over. However, if a player does not wish to re-sign with his LCS team he does not have to sign any new contract and he will become a "free agent" once his existing contract expires. Once a player is a free agent starts they are able to do what they want. The major difference is that in League there is no set period where this occurs - it all depends upon the end date of each player's individual contract.
INB4 TL ends up crashing and burning this season and Quas join RNG anyways.
This tampering shit is getting dumb , contractual discussions have nothing to do wit h Riot ... Look at the NFL , NBA , or any other major sport .
yeah there are no tampering rules in other sports?
Isn't this exactly what Doublelift was accused of with Scarra and Zion Spartan? He was only banned for two games, shouldn't he have been Banned for the rest of the season, and the year after as well? Why doesn't the punishment line up between an established player and a new owner?
I think it was more the fact that liftlift did it with those 2 and got his punishment. Badawi did it, was warned not to do it, asked for clarification, was explicitly told by LCS officials "don't do this" and his response was basically "Do it. Gotcha."
You gone fucked up Chris!
When players and teams sign a contract they are entering into an agreement that a player will play for a team during a defined period of time and be duly compensated - players abruptly dissolving their contracts due to employment discussions with other teams during the season creates a chaotic environment for teams and players and undermines stability for teams and their competitors. It also puts honest teams which comply with anti-tampering/poaching rules at a disadvantage in acquiring players.
I remember Chris Badawi speaking about this issue and why he'd done what he did with Quas and I think Keith, citation needed. The basic reasoning he cited was that the above paragraph doesn't provide the same protection for Challenger teams as it does LCS teams, so why should Challenger teams play by the same rules as LCS teams? E.g., Liquid could poach or attempt to poach Alex Ich with no official repercussions required by Riot. I just wanted to play a little bit of devil's advocate in the situation. I think someone else in the comment section, or a reply post also talked about how Riot would still hold players not in the LCS to contracts that they've signed to non-LCS organizations, but I can't quite remember where I remember seeing this.
LCS and CS teams do not compete directly, though, outside of Promotions ,where I guess a similar issue would be addressed by Riot if such poaching/tampering a player of your direct adversary team happens during Promotion series OR influence the final seeding for Promotion in the closing weeks of CS season Poaching/Tampering a CS player presenting him a possible offer for a future LCS spli does not affect the regularity of both the ongoing LCS and CS competitions, that is exactly the reason why the rule exist. For example, It would make no sense to make it impossible for an NBA team officials to contact a Euroleague player asking if he would like to join in the next season, as NBA and Euroleague teams does no compete directly each other
Of course, I think that instigate a player to break an existing contract could still eventually be considered under some unsportsmanlike rule, but just proposing a job offer to a player that is on a different league...well I'm not sure could be classified every time as tampering, a decision should be taken case by case depending on the severity of the action of the organization who is apporaching the CS player