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Disappointed with analyst behaviour

Vaelkyrie··6 votes·2,709 views

I’m not sure of where to put this - but I’ve been mulling this over since the PGL on the LEC yesterday (the 16th).

I figure the no name shaming rule holds here the way it does on the player behaviour boards, so I won’t name him, but honestly, if you say something like that on-air, you sort of deserve calling out.

I had a lot of respect for him initially - he seems to be an amazing coach (having coached both Caps and Humannoid), and his comments are interesting BUT (I know everything before a but is empty) yesterday he casually threw out the word ‘r%%%%%ed’ when analyzing play.

How is it that a player is held to a higher standard than an on-air paid analyst? He needs to apologize. Whether he realizes it or not, his behaviour influences other players. Zero tolerance should mean zero tolerance.

I love the LEC broadcasts, they are so well produced. Medic and Froskerrin are a great casting duo, and Vedius is a hoot. This just left a sour taste in my mouth.

Thoughts?

23 Comments

Metal Janna4 votes

OR Just remove the term from the list. There will always be some term for "badly calculated to the point of implying intellectual handicap". Just stop the euphemism treadmill already. You're not actually banning the sentiment and, more crucially, SHOULDN'T BE.

Around999People3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TXTBRzBx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-17T17:26:23.966+0000)

OR Just remove the term from the list. There will always be some term for "badly calculated to the point of implying intellectual handicap". Just stop the euphemism treadmill already. You're not actually banning the sentiment and, more crucially, SHOULDN'T BE.

There will always be a word for it, the issue is THAT word. Call the play stupid idiotic, dumbfounding, etc. You dont have to use a word that's the equivalent to the N word or a homophobic slur.

Metal Janna4 votes

{quoted}

There will always be a word for it, the issue is THAT word. Call the play stupid idiotic, dumbfounding, etc. You dont have to use a word that's the equivalent to the N word or a homophobic slur.

I fail to see how "idiotic" is any less offensive to the unfortunate members of the intellectually disabled group than the R word that shall not be named. It's just an older term further back on the euphemism treadmill. Same meaning, same sentiment.

Vaelkyrie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TXTBRzBx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-17T17:26:23.966+0000)

OR Just remove the term from the list. There will always be some term for "badly calculated to the point of implying intellectual handicap". Just stop the euphemism treadmill already. You're not actually banning the sentiment and, more crucially, SHOULDN'T BE.

That wasn't how he used the word - at least if he had used it the way you suggest, then it almost fits the correct definition.

KVbqbFsC8e3 votes

While I myself have no problems with that word, it seems that would be extremely unprofessional for an analyst to actually say it during a broadcast.

Vaelkyrie3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TXTBRzBx,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-17T22:39:06.592+0000)

While I myself have no problems with that word, it seems that would be extremely unprofessional for an analyst to actually say it during a broadcast.

And that's really my point - if a player gets a permaban for it in ANY context, then at best, the analyst is sending a mixed message, and it is definitely unprofessional to use it on air. It's a teachable moment - I'm not after anyone's head.

We can't solve all the problems - especially not production related ones - but we can be mindful of language. (Even if part of me is impressed by his grasp of idiomatic language given that English is not his first language.)

Moonscourge2 votes

Oh no, he used a bad word that is super common to use!

Around999People2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TXTBRzBx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-17T17:33:06.737+0000)

Oh no, he used a bad word that is super common to use!

The N word was super common to use. Are you pro racism? Homosexuality was a slur, are you homophobic? Why should people be able to use mental illness to the same degree?

Bettnachleger2 votes

Oh noooo, he used the word r%%%%%ed. Pls fire him, because that's soooooo offensive. Seriously, who the fuck cares. There are so many problems on this planet and you complain about a guy who used the word r%%%%%ed? lol

Vaelkyrie4 votes

{quoted}

Oh noooo, he used the word r%%%%%ed. Pls fire him, because that's soooooo offensive. Seriously, who the fuck cares. There are so many problems on this planet and you complain about a guy who used the word r%%%%%ed? lol

I NEVER suggested he be fired, censured or in any way penalized, nor would I. I'd like him to apologize, preferably on air or even twitter. This is a teachable moment - not a witch hunt to destroy a man's career. I thought I had opened a respectful discussion.

At it's heart it is a symptom of a problem, that when solved will go a long way to fixing other problems - treating all people with respect and being mindful of the impact we have on others.

I'm sorry that this issue triggers you.

Bettnachleger3 votes

He didn't use the word to insult someone, so I really fail to see the problem. It's just a fucking word, nothing more.

Edit: Sure, he could have used another word, which he did in his next sentence, but other than that ... who cares. No need to apologize for using the word r%%%%%ed if it's not used as an insult.

GeminiRune2 votes

You're getting riled up over the more lax part of the broadcast? Okay...

Allow me to say there's better things to get riled up over....perhaps casters criticizing build options? Or maybe having to be corrected by the audience? Yknow....because those happened too.

But one word which would be quite unrelated to the boards? Really?

Vaelkyrie2 votes

{quoted}

You're getting riled up over the more lax part of the broadcast? Okay...

Allow me to say there's better things to get riled up over....perhaps casters criticizing build options? Or maybe having to be corrected by the audience? Yknow....because those happened too.

But one word which would be quite unrelated to the boards? Really?

I wasn't sure about the board to be honest, but after thinking about it, I decided that since toxicity is an esport issue - and one that Riot has said they want to reduce, combined with it occurring during an esports broadcast made me feel this was likely the best place for it.

I'm not riled up, but I think it's a fair point for discussion - just like it would be a fair point for you to raise your observations about the casters in a thread you created.

How we use language is continually evolving - and this is how it happens - in respectful discussions. Loaded language carries more weight than it being 'one word', and if Riot didn't think it was problematic, it wouldn't be on their ZT list.

Galiö2 votes

I find the word offensive and I missed watching LEC yesterday...

But I feel confident there should have been a fine for it.

Very unprofessional l.

ModPeriscope2 votes

If players are punished for that behavior, then you shouldn't be using that language on a live stream if you're associated with Riot.

If you're part of a private entity, then it's that entity's responsibility to police that behavior, if they are so inclined.

Vaelkyrie2 votes

{quoted}

If players are punished for that behavior, then you shouldn't be using that language on a live stream if you're associated with Riot.

If you're part of a private entity, then it's that entity's responsibility to police that behavior, if they are so inclined.

That's an interesting point - and I wonder which category he falls into. I'm guessing from your post that he, like Sjokz, is a contractor. What is slightly problematic is that it's tough as a viewer to tell the difference. The general perception is that an analyst on a Riot broadcast is affiliated with Riot or that at the very least, Riot endorses the content of their broadcast.

ModPeriscope1 votes

{quoted}

That's an interesting point - and I wonder which category he falls into. I'm guessing from your post that he, like Sjokz, is a contractor. What is slightly problematic is that it's tough as a viewer to tell the difference. The general perception is that an analyst on a Riot broadcast is affiliated with Riot or that at the very least, Riot endorses the content of their broadcast.

I honestly don't know who you're talking about.

Vaelkyrie1 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't know who you're talking about.

Which is good I suppose, since we aren't supposed to name shame. Of course you have a 1 in 2 chance to get it right.

Around999People1 votes

While I'm against the use of that word, I think that people in his position are the only ones who I can accept calling a play idiotic. The man knows what he's talking about. A bronze player, or even a diamond saying it is not the same as someone who works around the pro spectrum of players

Vaelkyrie1 votes

{quoted}

While I'm against the use of that word, I think that people in his position are the only ones who I can accept calling a play idiotic. The man knows what he's talking about. A bronze player, or even a diamond saying it is not the same as someone who works around the pro spectrum of players

Not how he used it though. And besides, isn't it better to say: this play was awesome because X, or this play was sub-optimal and it seemed the player forgot Y and Z. Like I said, I think he's quite knowledgable - enough so that it seems lazy for him to throw out that word instead of concrete praise/critique.

Midg3t1 votes

Yall are throwing tantrums because of a word... srsly?

Vaelkyrie1 votes

{quoted}

Yall are throwing tantrums because of a word... srsly?

No one is throwing a tantrum. We're discussing the issue of ZT words on air by analysts versus in-game use by players. It's something worth looking at - if for no other reason than the player who hears it on air and then figures it's okay to use in chat, then wham gets a ban (there are other reasons).

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.

Midg3t2 votes

{quoted}

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue.

Words/phrases are as strong as you allow them to be. Don't give words/phrases any significant meaning and they won't have any effect on you, simple as that.

Ask yourself this- why are rappers (non black like Tekashi 69, but this can apply to any rapper) so comfortable with using the N-word? Cuz they're giving them another, non-hateful meaning. Just like in this case where the analyst used r-word to portrait a dumb play (if i understood correctly). He didn't use it with ill intent.

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