149 Comments
Deficio got off lucky, hell Dentist and CW did too. No fines or firings for anyone means they're getting the biggest warning in Riot history.
You got 1 guys, don't blow it.
Deficio will probably not be receiving a paycheck while he is on suspension however... honestly I think they all just got boned... and it doesn't even sound like Deficio did anything major imo...
Deficio is only suspended from "on-air duties." He, like most tv and radio personalities, is also likely responsible for many off-air tasks and with the specific wording of the outcomes, is probably still collecting a pay check but with some docks for his forced lapse in on-air duties. This is a position that is in all likelihood a salary position so he is probably losing money but not the whole "paycheck." When they say "As a Rioter, he will also be subject to internal disciplinary measures which by law are confidential," that is a good indicator that he is probably being docked shout caster pay and put on an internal probationary period.
All-in-all we'll see him again in a couple weeks (minus the CW games) and it probably won't come up again, UNLESS he takes a position as an LCS Manager in 2017...
just wow
So they weren´t exploiting Krepo, they just couldn´t use Deficio :/
But Krepo is just doing a fantanstic job at a co-caster
This is down right retarded...
we found no proof that Deficio shared any in-game strategy with competing teams, or affected the outcome of the game in question
Yet you are punishing them? really?
They're punishing him for tampering. He was talking to CW about working with them next year, and was talking to players about joining CW while they were still under contract with other teams. That's very serious.
It's only serious because riot has bullshit 'poaching' rules in effect in order to keep the players powerless. This 'rule' is a farce, and would never exist in any other free market. Talking to players under contract about playing on your team should not be something ban worthy. How the fuck are you supposed to create a winning team when you can only talk to players for about 1 week between there contracts being up and the LCS starting? The more they enforce these 'poaching' rules designed to keep the players powerless in contract negotiations, the less I support this game.
NBA NFL NHL MLB EPL UEFA IIHF and basically any professional sports org has rules making it illicit to poach players or even contact them while they are under contract. I do agree LCS needs a free agency period, where teams are allowed to make offer sheets and such, but youre completely incorrect
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/28/nfl-fines-jets-100000-for-revis-tampering/
For homsuplow and anyone else who wondered, the NFL fined the Jets in April for tampering, and that was a less egregious interaction than Deficio. They just made a public comment about the player under contract. Had they been having conversations with Revis about joining the Jets while he was under contract it would've been much bigger.
This 'rule' is a farce, and would never exist in any other free market.
Uhm... Even in other professional sports, you CANNOT talk to another team's player while under contract. Hell, you can't even interview another team's COACH until their contract expires without explicit permission from management.
These poaching rules are a part of every sport because they preserve the integrity of the game. Otherwise, you'd have a gigantic clusterfuck of a sport. Imagine I was C9 and at the end of the Spring Split, I knew we needed a replacement for Hai, and I went and talked to Bjergsen, say. Say I convinced him to join C9 at the end of the season. Now, how does that affect every C9-TSM game going into worlds? What if I convinced Bjerg to get released by TSM then and there? Sure, this sounds like crazy hypotheticals but it is entirely possible if there are no tampering or poaching laws in place.
Your are only half correct, the poaching rules only exit during the "meat" of the contract. IN most spors, the designated Free Agent period you can approach any player. Riot needs to establish a free agency market, because of Bjergsen's last year on his contract, he should be able to approach another team.
Its wage negotiating, if you can't be approached by another team, how are you able to demand more money from your team. That's how the professional sports world works and why contracts get so high in price.
It's serious but from his facebook post it looks like it might have just been him talking with people he considered his friends about collaborating. It sounds extremely unintentional and I bet most of us would make the same mistake. Often times because of contracts, what may have once just been casual chatter with friends on if you'd like to work together in the future can end up being conflict of interest or tampering. I think the punishment Riot handed down is a little heavy handed but honestly they probably feel forced to overreact so as to not show favoritism.
"He was talking to CW about working with them next year" this he talked about on his facebook page and stated that he had to seperate friendship from work talk better. Which is all fine since he was a former manager, and player for Wolves.
However..." and was talking to players about joining CW while they were still under contract with other teams."
Not really the case, at all, since the vagueness of the situation is present in the actual post. It could have been for other things too, career recommendations and such were mentioned. Speculative at best on your side!
If you are being audited for tax fraud, but didnt commit tax fraud but are found guilty of money laundering, should you not be charged with money laundering?
It sucks that the allegations were made falsely and that it lead to him being caught of tampering, but he was still tampering.
If you're talking about Dentist it is more like you were charged tax fraud but not guilty of tax fraud, but punished anyways because you didn't want to help them anyways.
you dont have to incriminate yourself or admit wrong doing, but purposefully obstructing an investigation is usually grounds for dismissal (civil) or jail time (criminal)
Also can't actively encourage your team to cheat and break the rules. He's the coach and is suppose to represent the organization, honestly CW should fire him, that he'd even consider cheating to help his team win. Instead of assuming my players are just simply better.
So many people just blame riot directly for Deficio punishment while not reading the whole thing. Mankind :)
I read the whole thing. I just don't like their poaching rules.
So many people do not realize that in order for this to be tampering Deficio would have to be a member of the CW organization which he clearly is not at this moment so he does not have the authority to recruit for an organization t\he is not affiliated with so therefore by definition can not be tampering. Mankind:)
He had power. He is a Rioter and regardless of his status with CW, should not be discussing any such thing with players. I understand you are fixating on his position with CW (or lack their of), but it boils down to him being a Rioter which still holds authority.
Wow What The Fuck Deficio WHY U DO DIS TO US
Well then
[deleted]
you may want to read the article again. yes he wasn't convicted of wrong doing in the allegation of providing CW with in game strategies but he was involved with tampering. He was influencing players currently contracted into potentially working with himself and Copenhagen Wolves for next year. As they said, tampering is a very serious allegation and the punishment is suitable. Do note the tampering was discovered during their investigations into the leaking of in game strategies.
You understand that he is being punished, not because of the comment that Dentist made to his team (to attempt to get them to listen to his strategy), but the reason is that, while Riot was investigating the Legitimacy of the claim found him to be in talks with CW to be their coach at the end of 2015 season. Which lead to him then talking to other pros (contracted on other teams or not) about working with them later.
Hence the hefty punish because of the assume tampering.
I want you to re-read this entire article, because it clearly states that poaching was what led to his punishment. After you re-read I want a five paragraph essay on why Deficio was punished. Due by the end of the week.
lol riot. "we're going to be so strict that someone isn't perfect in our eyes, not only will we exert our divine force to punish, but we'll also make it so that he can't work in this industry apart form us." you can't choose who works for teams; at least you shouldn't be able to.
Since it is a Riot organized league. They can. Unlike independent leagues (NFL/NBA/NLB/FIFA (lol) ) they have every right to control this. The only way around this if there was an external organization that ran LCS.
/endlogic
Does this mean he can't rant about how much he loves Denmark and Danish players? cos those rants are what make his broadcasts so enjoyable. And if you're in Deficio's position, or any rioter's, where do you draw the line between casual conversations with any pro LoL team staff about how well other teams are doing and how good certain pro players are before it causes problems like this? If there are explicit rules defining such conversation topics, they need to be made known, cos I'm not a pro player, but I'm guessing it can be pretty harsh if your game has been paused and you get penalised because you didn't know you couldn't talk about how well other teams are doing or how your next matchup is going to go.
I honestly don't understand the logic behind the Deficio ruling... Either he definitely WAS going to be an official for CW, then it's poaching or tempering. But if he WASN'T (and that's what it sounds like to me, he simply played with the idea and had an offer), he had no representation rights for CW, which in my eyes means, this was not poaching but just honest advice. This rather sounds to me like they wanna pressure him into some sort of adhesion contract by disallowing him ANY kind of position in an LCS org other than analyst, which probably wouldn't be an option for him anyways, for ONE AND A HALF YEARS.
Damn Deficio got banned until 2016! That's huge if he ever wanted to be a major part of an organization.
Damn this is popcorn-worthy
I am confused how Deficio is considered an affiliate of CW. He is not officially associated with CW as of yet as he got an offer, but nothing was concrete. As far as Dentist is concerned, I would like to understand how Riot feels they have a say of how Dentist runs his team. That is Copenhagen Wolves business, and Riot has no rules in place to not outright lie to your players to encourage them. If there was really no evidence about such allegations, why did Riot mention it? The original investigation yielded nothing and should not be used to damage peoples' good name. In fact, the worst part of this was not the stretching of the definition of affiliate, but the suggestion of another investigation that went nowhere. From there, this false allegation was also used in deciding a punishment for Dentist? So, he is found innocent yet still his punishment is influenced by it? I am outraged the most about this.
Finally, I would like to know what is acceptable to Riot concerning social connections in League of Legends as it seems clarity to what is acceptable to Riot is not defined clearly to anyone involved. When something like this happens, whether or not the person is at fault or not, one must observe themselves and see if they can make their expectations more clear. Since this has happened a ridiculous number of times in such a short time span, clarity from Riot I feel is necessary. Is Dentist inquiring about Doublelift's ability to be "coachable" to Montecristo on Summoning Insight, a community LoL talk show, wrong also? Is it acceptable? These sorts of questions do not seem to be completely understood by anyone and are at sole discretion of Riot after the fact.
Deficio isn't/wasn't affiliated with CW. He was approached by CW to be a coach at the end of the 2015 season. In that capacity he then spoke with Contracted Players which is a breach of LCS rules. He didn't go to them as a caster and say "you want to play for CW at the end of the split?" conversations were more like "I may be in a coaching/management position in CW at the end of the split, what do you think about joining around then?"
Someone previously in the thread mentioned, regardless of the original circumstance his breaking of the rules was brought to light, Deficio was in the wrong with what he was doing. And while it was not poaching (they mention that as well in the article), it is tampering with the integrity of every single game that involved players he was in talks with. EVEN if he had no Concrete Job at CW.
His punishment was for the tampering, he was found innocent (or there was no evidence of) the original issue, him sharing SK Strats with CW. Nothing found in the investigation of him sharing strategies was used in his punishment. It was the tampering that was found in the course of that investigation that is the cause of this ruling. Your outrage is unwarranted as he broke the rules that are put in place and enforced by the company he works for!
As to your final statement, Riot ruleset only involves the discussion of team changes, hiring of, and acquisition of any contracted individuals with other organizations while they are under contract. I will empathize with there being an incredibly short amount of time for players/teams to talk with players before the renewal of contracts, that may be something Riot should check on. I do not agree that breaking rules laid out in contracts being the start of making Riot make those changes.
Ah, I appreciate your thought out response and I would like to thank you for providing a different point of view toward my original post. However, the ruleset explicitly states that you must be affiliated or part of the team's organization in order to be punished. I feel it is similar to a solo queue player making a suggestion to a LCS player during a solo-queue game or a personal friend. Who is allowed to gives these players career advice if 3rd parties are not even allowed to assist them? Is this advice best for competitive integrity? Maybe not; however, under the current ruleset, if there is no affiliation with CW, there is no violation of the ruleset.
Concerning your response on the original incident, I want to believe this true; however, the information was admittedly brought to light during the investigation of the first incident which raises red flags for me. However, to clarify my outrage, mentioning an original charge as part of a completely different charge is unnecessary as it just increases the drama.
As for your response to my final thoughts, I agree with your response fully.
It is always good to share differing opinions especially with situations such as this:
I feel it is similar to a solo queue player making a suggestion to a LCS player during a solo-queue game or a personal friend.
Except, he is affiliated with Riot and the LCS and those players are still contracted under LCS rulesets. And it wasn't career advice, it wasn't helping them with life choices, it was recruitment. Flat out recruitment.
Next, the seriousness of the allegations against Deficio and Dentist (subsequently CW) were being addressed at the beginning. They state that,
"Allegations were made that Deficio had discussed SK Gaming’s in-game strategy with their opponent... ...we concluded that no strategy had been shared which could have challenged competitive integrity in this case."
The way this ties into the tampering competitive ruling is akin to something like this: The police raiding your house on suspected drug dealer allegations and finding a murdered body.
Just because the original purpose of the investigation was untrue, does not negate actual rule breaking.
Again, I see where you are going with your second statement; however, a question that needs to be posed is how would an opinion change if the original allegation was omitted? If they stated, "During another allegation, which they were ultimately found innocent, against Dentist and Deficio, we uncovered information regarding tampering with the competitive integrity of the LCS." And continued without mention of the other allegation, would the public opinion change of these claims?
In your analogy, it is easy to make objective facts, 'suspected drug dealer and a body found in the house' to 'drug dealer and murderer' connection and bias an opinion of a neutral observer. Even if the drugs were not actually found. This is why these things are usually kept separate to preserve a neutral position.
The fact that the original allegation was brought up was because the issue was already made public. There were posts on Reddit and Twitter before LCS started.
They address it and then note there was no evidence of such, before moving on to the actual ruling.
I understand what you are saying in regard to a negative impact on a professional because of mentions, but since it was already out there, Riot has actually cleared up hearsay and rumors.
The fact that we get these rulings and information, is because Riot wants a small measure of transparency and clarity. My example is a bit drastic, it probably could have been better, for that I apologize.
in that capacity HE HAD NO AUTHORITY FOR CW SO THERE WAS NO TAMPERING he is a caster not a team employee how spoon fed are you people
The ruling says that it wasn't regarded as "poaching", which the offense would have been if he was affiliated with CW. Because he was approached by CW for a possible position that he hadn't declined or agreed to, it led to a large gray area of whether he was acting as a rioter or a future CW employee. So his questioning of players may be tampering with how players act in their games for the rest of the season in regards to joining CW in the next season. It was ruled as "tampering" because that is exactly what he was doing, even if it was unintentional. On the other hand i think the punishment was little too harsh but it sets a good precedent for tampering overall.
Thank you for understanding STVNSTAR. You seem to understand why this may be an issue.
@Nynetynyne He is a Rioter that was in talks to become management for CW. The argument that he had no authority is naivety at least and blind ignorance in the extreme.
You don't have to be in an official position to tamper with supposed power. I will agree that Deficio probably didn't intentionally cause an issue.
Gosh sjokz is so fucking hot
uhhh not new to competitive scene just not reallly aware of what poaching means can someone give me a great definition of what it means
Poaching is trying to recruit a player onto your team that is currently under a contract for someone else.
Basically while a player is under contract, other teams aren't allowed to talk to them about employment. Basically if team A were to tell star player of team B "Hey we're going to pay you an assload to join our team next year" said player's performance THIS year could be affected by that agreement. Instead you're supposed to wait until that player's contract is over with and THEN you can talk to him. In most sports that's known as the free agency period.
In this case it's not poaching but tampering, because deficio didn't work for either of the teams involved. More or less it's the same offense, but depends on who you work for.
This might be a dumb question, but why don't they "remake" CW vs SK, but Last week, we became aware of allegations involving Martin “Deficio” Lynge, a Rioter and EU LCS caster. Specific allegations were made that SK Gaming’s in-game strategy had been leaked to their opponent that day, the Copenhagen Wolves doesn't it mean it effected the outcome, so the match has be "remake"??
They didn't remake because the allegations about strategy being leaked were a lie. The CW coach lied about having SK's strategy. The ruling explains that.