Remove Vaevictis

KISSM8·Mar 20, 2019·4 votes·1,461 views

Extremely disrespectful to serious players to be playing vs this team and a complete waste of time. In the matches the girls are seen with fake long nails while playing as if it doesn't affect their gameplay. There's room for female pro play but not for this team. There are so many better players out there and these people took their spot.

Look at their match history https://lol.gamepedia.com/Vaevictis_eSports/Match_History Complete disrespect get this garbage out of pro play

17 Comments

OleandervineMar 20, 20193 votes

Stop trying to instigate controversy with this post.

GeminiRuneMar 20, 20193 votes

Getting real tired of these Vaevictis talks. Why can't it just be, "It happened. It failed. Move on?"

hshtagniemehrcduMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Getting real tired of these Vaevictis talks. Why can't it just be, "It happened. It failed. Move on?"

There should be rules in place to prevent something like this from happening. It's a shame people are allowed to trolled in something that claims to be a professional league.

GeminiRuneMar 20, 20192 votes

Who's trolling? The players or the organization? The org chose to field the players within the region's eligibility! So what more rules should be added? Bump it higher than a Diamond rank? Why?! Not every region has Master and Challenger level talent that wants to go pro.

Should there need to be an intent as to a team's roster? Firstly that'd be implying sexism and rank shaming in this case. Secondly in most cases there hasn't been a need for intent so why start now?

Just like the Remi situation with Renegades, if the org is suspect, that should be investigated. But what the OP is saying is remove the team and/or the org because of the players picked up and the blowouts accrued as a result. Vaevictis hasn't been competitively relevant since Spring 2017! In that context, you can just chalk this up as the next (3rd) relegation run for the org. If the hate for the org and choice of players matters that much, then hope that the Promotion teams destroy them. Whoops...I'll keep that there. Thanks for the correction.

VaelkyrieMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Who's trolling? The players or the organization? The org chose to field the players within the region's eligibility! So what more rules should be added? Bump it higher than a Diamond rank? Why?! Not every region has Master and Challenger level talent that wants to go pro.

Should there need to be an intent as to a team's roster? Firstly that'd be implying sexism and rank shaming in this case. Secondly in most cases there hasn't been a need for intent so why start now?

Just like the Remi situation with Renegades, if the org is suspect, that should be investigated. But what the OP is saying is remove the team and/or the org because of the players picked up and the blowouts accrued as a result. Vaevictis hasn't been competitively relevant since Spring 2017! In that context, you can just chalk this up as the next (3rd) relegation run for the org. If the hate for the org and choice of players matters that much, then hope that the Promotion teams destroy them.

Actually, the league is changing to a franchise format like the EU did for this season - so it was an experiment - and one worth doing in my opinion. Every one of those women will come out of the season as better players - and every young female gamer who watches a match knows that they will have even more opportunities going forward. There really isn't a good reason to not have mixed gender teams in e-sports, and the more women who get a chance at high-level play the larger the player pool becomes.

Vaevictis was going to finish close to the bottom this season no matter what - their prospective male roster was not exactly brimming with talent. Also, there is always a team that ends a season 2-x, 1-x and sometimes 0-x in any league, it's not unusual.

And I'm pretty sure that everyone of those women wants to win and plays to win. And one day they will.

GeminiRuneMar 20, 20191 votes

Ah. My apologies! I definitely overlooked that; even says on the wiki itself.

My bad...but my original point still stands:

It happened. It failed. Move on.

hshtagniemehrcduMar 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Who's trolling? The players or the organization?

The organaization.

The org chose to field the players within the region's eligibility! So what more rules should be added? Bump it higher than a Diamond rank? Why?! Not every region has Master and Challenger level talent that wants to go pro.

The rule is simple. It is a professional league; try to win. First step: get the players you thnk are going to perform best together.

Should there need to be an intent as to a team's roster?

Yes, and there should be the intent to get the best possible roster given your possibilities.

Firstly that'd be implying sexism

I have absolutly no idea how there's any sexism implied here. My point was that the organization chose 5 low dia players that are also off-role. This makes it obvious they never tried to be competitive. Thats it. I dont know why you have to make this about gender - i never even used the word male/female/gender or anything related in my post above. Quite a low blow to try and make this a gender issue. I dont give a shit what sex organ they have between their legs, and nothing i said even remotly refers to that. Just a really, really low blow.

and rank shaming in this case.

Rank shaming? wtf?? Are teams rank shaming because they dont consider low elo players for their roster? IF you try to win in a professional league, you pick up the best players you can - and thats not going to be low diamond support mains.

You are trying really hard to find a personal insult mate. Thats like saying that some guy who plays some soccer in his free time gets "shamed" because he isn't considered for a professional soccer team.

Secondly in most cases there hasn't been a need for intent so why start now?

There's always been a need for that - because previously, you would simply drop out of the league. Again, this is a **professional **league, i expect **professional **players. If you want to watch some low elo players, that's perfectly fine. But a professional league is not the place.

Just like the Remi situation with Renegades, if the org is suspect, that should be investigated.

i have no clue whatsoever how you think these situations compare. Remi was on the team, because she was skilled player, and thats it. She got picked because the team felt she was a good choice to win.

Perhaps you can explain to me how picking up 5 low dia offf-role players fits the same bill.

But what the OP is saying is remove the team and/or the org because of the players picked up and the blowouts accrued as a result. Vaevictis hasn't been competitively relevant since Spring 2017!

Not being relevant because you fail while trying is different from not being relevant because you dont want to succeed in the first place.

~~In that context, you can just chalk this up as the next (3rd) relegation run for the org. If the hate for the org and choice of players matters that much,

The thing i hate is, that a team that never wanted to win in the first place is allowed in a competitive league. They aren't competitive, they dont want to win or even perform well.

VaelkyrieMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The thing i hate is, that a team that never wanted to win in the first place is allowed in a competitive league. They aren't competitive, they dont want to win or even perform well.

The players on the team or the org? Cause I think the players want to win - the organization was conducting a pre-franchising experiment.

hshtagniemehrcduMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The players on the team or the org? Cause I think the players want to win - the organization was conducting a pre-franchising experiment.

The spot belongs to the org, so them not wanting to win is all it takes.

GeminiRuneMar 21, 20192 votes

Okay time out.

First of all producing the best team isn't going to be some absolute factor. You're always going to draw short ends of the straw when it comes to promising talent and it's up to the org to accept that and roll with it or take matters into their own hands at the expense of potential struggle. Given Vaevictis was already lower end and as mentioned secured franchising, what was the matter with it?

Now then, my mention of implied sexism and rank shaming for Vaevictis' case was intended to be joint. And for the most part, that would be true! You're stating rules should be put in place because of what Vaevictis did in fielding this blowout roster. But you're clearly implying that only the best of the best are allowed to play. To break down your points:

My point was that the organization chose 5 low dia players that are also off-role.

That was the org's choice. If your point is to imply that Diamond players can't contend with Master and Challenger level players which has been proven a possibility many times, then that's just outright shaming.

As for the off-role mention: In a major region world where you can have Afreeca Freecs Spirit flex 3 roles in a regular season with no competitive ruling or repercussion, or even last season where Snake would flex their players all over the place in the first half of summer; roles don't have to mean anything. Players are not and have never been locked and sealed to a specific role or set of champions. Again, the org's choice.

I dont know why you have to make this about gender - i never even used the word male/female/gender or anything related in my post above.

Tell that to the countless posts and comments about "5 female players out of their league." The same comments that will most always target their ranks as an excuse of inability. The same posts that keep popping up like this is some big deal when it really isn't. Yet here you are saying rules need to be enforced without even elaborating under what. Team Dark, Team Siren, Team Marn, Meet Your Makers, Origen, Renegades, Tainted Minds. The list goes on about messed up stories and controversies and the players are just having to play the game. And all you said at the point in time is:

There should be rules in place to prevent something like this from happening. It's a shame people are allowed to trolled in something that claims to be a professional league.

Like god damn, yo! These were some messed up stories that came with some resolutions within org structure! It's not like any of us Westerners have an idea how Vaevictis is running this anyway! Maybe in the hivemind, it's interpreted as trolling. In the hivemind, Diamond players can't beat Master players or Challenger players ever. In the hivemind, female players will never amount to promising talent as a team. You gave no rules, no suggestions, nothing but a bland comment which would be bull shit if it's being changed for the roster the org fielded.

But in the end of the day, it's whatever. It was a project. A trial. If they were to continue this into summer, it'd be nice to see if any more growth came out of it through their subs or other acquired talent in the midseason. If Shanghai Dragons of the OWL can go 0-40 in the inaugural season to be shamed for the record but praised for the effort in trying, why can't this be?

Need add to mention: this is still just the Russian league. Most anyone Western ever cares about the Russian league for is where Gambit wound up as far as I ever know.

Bottom line: Let it go.

hshtagniemehrcduMar 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

First of all producing the best team isn't going to be some absolute factor. You're always going to draw short ends of the straw when it comes to promising talent and it's up to the org to accept that and roll with it or take matters into their own hands at the expense of potential struggle.

As i said ... there should be the intent to get the best possible roster given your possibilities. Getting a "bad" player because you couldnt find/afford someone better, is perfectly fine. Chosing bad players intentionally, thats not fine.

Given Vaevictis was already lower end and as mentioned secured franchising, what was the matter with it?

Competitive leage -->competitive matches. Again, if a t eam fails while trying, thats one thing. If they dont even trry to win, they should not be allowed in aa professional league, that simple! They are intentionally sabotaging their chances of winning by conciously making bad decisions that they do not need to make.

Now then, my mention of implied sexism and rank shaming for Vaevictis' case was intended to be joint. And for the most part, that would be true! You're stating rules should be put in place because of what Vaevictis did in fielding this blowout roster. But you're clearly implying that only the best of the best are allowed to play. To break down your points: That was the org's choice. If your point is to imply that Diamond players can't contend with Master and Challenger level players which has been proven a possibility many times, then that's just outright shaming. As for the off-role mention: In a major region world where you can have Afreeca Freecs Spirit flex 3 roles in a regular season with no competitive ruling or repercussion, or even last season where Snake would flex their players all over the place in the first half of summer; roles don't have to mean anything. Players are not and have never been locked and sealed to a specific role or set of champions. Again, the org's choice.

I realyl dont think you are getting the point. Picking up dia player is a rare exception for professional teams - they only do it when they are convinced they are well suited for the role. Again, the org VV knew they made bad choices and it was in their power to make better choices. This argument about rank shaming is utterly ridicoulous. Lets say, fnatic would recruit 5 b5 players for the next split and compete in LEC. What woul you think of that...??

Tell that to the countless posts and comments about "5 female players out of their league." The same comments that will most always target their ranks as an excuse of inability. The same posts that keep popping up like this is some big deal when it really isn't. Yet here you are saying rules need to be enforced without even elaborating under what. Team Dark, Team Siren, Team Marn, Meet Your Makers, Origen, Renegades, Tainted Minds. The list goes on about messed up stories and controversies and the players are just having to play the game. And all you said at the point in time is:

I dont give a shit about what other posted, it has nothing to do with my points.

About the teams you mentioned ( i dont know all of em, lets just roll with origen as an example): Origen sucked. Terrible team, that didnt manage to win a single series, and went 0/6 in relegation iirc. Point is: They did the best they could, they tried to do well they tried to win. VV did non of these things thats the difference. They didnt try to win, they intentionally made bad decisions they knew exactly were going to result in them getting smashed.

VV simply participated with the clear statement of: we do not want to win. This attitude is unacceptable in a competitve league. YOu always have a bottom tier team - no matter how good everyone is, someone gotta be last. Thats no problem - the problem is if you **dont try to win. **

VaelkyrieMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

VV did non of these things thats the difference. They didnt try to win, they intentionally made bad decisions they knew exactly were going to result in them getting smashed.

VV simply participated with the clear statement of: we do not want to win. This attitude is unacceptable in a competitve league. YOu always have a bottom tier team - no matter how good everyone is, someone gotta be last. Thats no problem - the problem is if you **dont try to win. **

Except, VV decided to field and all female team - then took the best female players they could find. Whether you like it or not, it's a valid means of choosing a team. Origen's awful roster was never expected to win any games and that's just what happened. But nobody demanded they be disbanded.

VV is getting this flack because they fielded a team of women. Period.

VoraciousXMar 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Except, VV decided to field and all female team - then took the best female players they could find. Whether you like it or not, it's a valid means of choosing a team. Origen's awful roster was never expected to win any games and that's just what happened. But nobody demanded they be disbanded.

VV is getting this flack because they fielded a team of women. Period.

It looks like you completely ignored his entire comment and put "But they're women and they're the best women they could find". He said they didn't try to win at all. He didn't say anything about their gender. YOU ARE THE ONE making it about their gender.

Also why does it matter if they're women or not? Let's say a woman ran for president, but you COMPLETELY disagreed with all of her ideas and she was completely unqualified to be the president. Would you still vote for her?

hshtagniemehrcduMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Except, VV decided to field and all female team - then took the best female players they could find. Whether you like it or not, it's a valid means of choosing a team. Origen's awful roster was never expected to win any games and that's just what happened. But nobody demanded they be disbanded.

VV is getting this flack because they fielded a team of women. Period.

So you keep completly ignoring every point i make and just keep crying "sexism". Someone dissagrees with you? Sexist. Learn how to argue and we can continue. Try to repeat any of your previous comments without using words such as sex, gender,male,female. You could practically delete everything you said.

You have repeatedly failed to anwser to even a single argumetn i make and just cry sexism cause there are women involved. Grow up. Population is about 50/50 men/women, get comfortable around it.

VaelkyrieMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Okay time out.

First of all producing the best team isn't going to be some absolute factor. You're always going to draw short ends of the straw when it comes to promising talent and it's up to the org to accept that and roll with it or take matters into their own hands at the expense of potential struggle. Given Vaevictis was already lower end and as mentioned secured franchising, what was the matter with it?

Now then, my mention of implied sexism and rank shaming for Vaevictis' case was intended to be joint. And for the most part, that would be true! You're stating rules should be put in place because of what Vaevictis did in fielding this blowout roster. But you're clearly implying that only the best of the best are allowed to play. To break down your points:

That was the org's choice. If your point is to imply that Diamond players can't contend with Master and Challenger level players which has been proven a possibility many times, then that's just outright shaming.

As for the off-role mention: In a major region world where you can have Afreeca Freecs Spirit flex 3 roles in a regular season with no competitive ruling or repercussion, or even last season where Snake would flex their players all over the place in the first half of summer; roles don't have to mean anything. Players are not and have never been locked and sealed to a specific role or set of champions. Again, the org's choice.

Tell that to the countless posts and comments about "5 female players out of their league." The same comments that will most always target their ranks as an excuse of inability. The same posts that keep popping up like this is some big deal when it really isn't. Yet here you are saying rules need to be enforced without even elaborating under what. Team Dark, Team Siren, Team Marn, Meet Your Makers, Origen, Renegades, Tainted Minds. The list goes on about messed up stories and controversies and the players are just having to play the game. And all you said at the point in time is:

Like god damn, yo! These were some messed up stories that came with some resolutions within org structure! It's not like any of us Westerners have an idea how Vaevictis is running this anyway! Maybe in the hivemind, it's interpreted as trolling. In the hivemind, Diamond players can't beat Master players or Challenger players ever. In the hivemind, female players will never amount to promising talent as a team. You gave no rules, no suggestions, nothing but a bland comment which would be bull shit if it's being changed for the roster the org fielded.

But in the end of the day, it's whatever. It was a project. A trial. If they were to continue this into summer, it'd be nice to see if any more growth came out of it through their subs or other acquired talent in the midseason. If Shanghai Dragons of the OWL can go 0-40 in the inaugural season to be shamed for the record but praised for the effort in trying, why can't this be?

Need add to mention: this is still just the Russian league. Most anyone Western ever cares about the Russian league for is where Gambit wound up as far as I ever know.

Bottom line: Let it go.

word^

hshtagniemehrcduMar 20, 20192 votes

"disbanned"? I dont know what option in your poll means yes/no.. :)

But yeah, in my opinion, a team taht has no intention of winning should not be allowed to participate in a professional league. (Singing 5 off-role low dia players (dia on russina serer..) ... explain).

KISSM8Mar 20, 20191 votes

Yes, my mistake