The Worlds stage has grown to fit more competitors than ever before. These are the players who stand above the rest, according to Jatt, Deficio, and PapaSmithy.
Jern3o5 votesMad disrespect to Ruler... If KT had made it to worlds, both Deft and Mata would of made top 20. Ruler goes off against KT and doesn't even make the list.
Conker1843 voteswould of
Zenophobia3 voteswood uf
Fowus2 voteslol yeah I would say he is considerably better than zven and doublelift and maybe(?) uzi
III BAKURYU III 4 votesThe Real List 20. SwordArt 19. Clearlove 18. Mlxg 17. Xiaohu 16. Huni 15. Peanut 14. UZI 13. Core JJ 12. Ruler 11. Crown 10. Ambition 9. Cuvee 8. Gorilla 7. Cuzz 6. Pray 5. BDD 4. Khan 3. Wolf 2. Faker
cynide44 voteshow u not gonna put doublelift but u put rekkless
TheeBull4 votesRekkles is a better ADC than Doublelift by a small bit. And also more important to his team. TSM without double would be fine, fnatic without rekkles would not be fine.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesRekkles 1. Won the play-ins and 2. came back from an 0-4 start at Worlds, tell me when D-Lift actually does something like win more than 3 games at Worlds.
Hiraêth7 voteshowd you put sneaky on this list? is c9 still a team? lol.
III BAKURYU III 2 votesI used my keyboard. I think C9 are still a team.
TheManNamedDan3 votesYou guys make fun of C9 but it's funny because i distinctly remember C9 being the best in NA at worlds... examples- season 3- C9's first year in the LCS made 5th-8th compared to TSM and Vulcan's 11th to 12th season 4- C9 and TSM placed both in 5th-8th but C9 was the first NA team to beat a korean team in history(NaJin White Sheild) season 5-C9 placed 9-11th and CLG placed 12th-13th and TSM placed `13th to 14th, and C9 went 3-0 week 1 in groups and pentakilled Fnatic that week. season 6- C9 made it to 5th to 8th while TSM and CLG made 9th to 11th. Furthermore, C9 has been the best consistently at worlds every year...
Zephyrous X4 votesi sense no bias from your icon or name, none at all*[slayer-jinx-unamused]*
Conker1842 votesC9 had the chance to play a KR team before TSM in season 4, they in no way did any better than TSM in Season 4. Season 5 and 6 C9 did better largely on group placement you kid yourself if you say otherwise. In season 3 not disputing C9 was better but that has no barring on today's performance. Your furthermore statement is stupid and adds nothing, it is more of a summary statement based on pretty much no evidence.
sKz Aaron D1 votesYou want to know why nobody is taking C9 seriously right now? This.
https://gyazo.com/e398fa68afc8032c3e6fe3539a59181f
In the last 3 years they have not won anything (at Rift Rivals they had the worst record of the NA teams, effectively getting 4th place because they went 0-2 against UoL). They haven't been first place in a split, they haven't won playoffs, and they haven't won at IEM. They have consistently been a 2nd/3rd/4th place NA team. The moment they start to show the dominance they had in Season 3, people will begin to take them seriously again.
As far as them being the first NA team to ever beat a Korean team? That's laughable. Dignitas and CLG both beat Korean teams in 2012. Dig beat RoMg, while CLG beat MVP Blue and Incredible Miracle. And the only reason they beat one before TSM is because they played against NaJin in groups, and TSM didn't.
Consistently been the best at worlds every year? Sure, they've had better finishes most of the time, but if you take into account which groups the teams were placed in, they've gotten pretty lucky with not having to face the strongest teams in groups.
Nipsahoy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lost Haole,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Jb1ErHQV,comment-id=00010002000000000002,timestamp=2017-09-21T11:53:48.581+0000)
You want to know why nobody is taking C9 seriously right now? This.
https://gyazo.com/e398fa68afc8032c3e6fe3539a59181f
In the last 3 years they have not won anything (at Rift Rivals they had the worst record of the NA teams, effectively getting 4th place because they went 0-2 against UoL). They haven't been first place in a split, they haven't won playoffs, and they haven't won at IEM. They have consistently been a 2nd/3rd/4th place NA team. The moment they start to show the dominance they had in Season 3, people will begin to take them seriously again.
As far as them being the first NA team to ever beat a Korean team? That's laughable. Dignitas and CLG both beat Korean teams in 2012. Dig beat RoMg, while CLG beat MVP Blue and Incredible Miracle. And the only reason they beat one before TSM is because they played against NaJin in groups, and TSM didn't.
Consistently been the best at worlds every year? Sure, they've had better finishes most of the time, but if you take into account which groups the teams were placed in, they've gotten pretty lucky with not having to face the strongest teams in groups.
You can say the exact same thing about TSM though and they've actually done worse than C9 yet everyone's always on the TSM train. I mean their only realy claim to fame for international play was winning Rift Rivals. I do think TSM is a stronger overall team, but if C9 is playing well they are about as good as TSM - it's just a question of how consistent they will be.
sKz Aaron D2 votesYou can say the exact same thing about TSM though and they've actually done worse than C9 yet everyone's always on the TSM train. I mean their only realy claim to fame for international play was winning Rift Rivals. I do think TSM is a stronger overall team, but if C9 is playing well they are about as good as TSM - it's just a question of how consistent they will be.
Did you look at the link? Here are TSM's last 3 seasons. https://gyazo.com/4879432126608511dc92ddc189d0a09f https://gyazo.com/241f4e81fe3544c4f0719b0c962182b6 https://gyazo.com/0557d875278e29065bfe16500dd1efad
The reason Team SoloMid is seen as better than Cloud 9 is because for the last 3 years, they've been pretty consistently better than Cloud 9. See all of the 1st places? Compared to C9's 2nd/3rd/4ths and no 1st? That is why people are on the TSM train instead of the C9 train. I'm not calling C9 bad, I'm not attacking C9 in any way. I'm simply stating the obvious. This is a Yankees vs Red Sox rivalry, and C9 are the Sox.
TSM also won IEM Season IX, C9 tied for last place there.
TheManNamedDan1 votes"They've gotten pretty lucky with not having to face the strongest teams in groups." ummmm.... SKT last year in groups... you know.. the team that would win the championship. lol
ChompyWulf3 votesSeason 3 only saw C9 so high because they were directly seeded that high....then got swept out. Season 4, OK, they made Quarters. Season 5, you go 3-0, then go 0-4 and that's good? That's laughingstock level flop. Embarrassing. Season 6, they had the luck of two awful teams in their group besides SKT and clearly were lucky to advance with how they were swiftly KO'd in Quarters.
They've been lucky once, vastly under performed twice, and had one decent showing. That's nothing to brag about. They flop more than succeed.
Nipsahoy2 votesSeason 3 only saw C9 so high because they were directly seeded that high....then got swept out. Season 4, OK, they made Quarters. Season 5, you go 3-0, then go 0-4 and that's good? That's laughingstock level flop. Embarrassing. Season 6, they had the luck of two awful teams in their group besides SKT and clearly were lucky to advance with how they were swiftly KO'd in Quarters.
They've been lucky once, vastly under performed twice, and had one decent showing. That's nothing to brag about. They flop more than succeed.
Season 5 isn't bad actually when you realize they were the 7th place NA LCS team taking games off what should be vastly better teams. I have no clue how that performance could be considered vastly underperforming in any sense but ok.. I mean all TSM has ever had was Bjergsen that's good and the rest of the players are just along for the ride. Season 6 finally started to change that but it still kinda feels that way. TSM was favored last season and flopped also. Also I don't think Flash Wolves was an awful team either last year.
I'm not saying C9 is an elite team but they tend to out perform TSM every year at worlds and I have no clue why people are always hyping up TSM considering it's basically expected that they will choke every single time. I always go in with low expectation for C9 and typically they do better than expected.
If TSM doesn't get out of groups this year then I think Bjergsen and TSM will have cemented their legacy of being the biggest chokers of all time from NA.
MysterQ2 votesI will be shocked if TSM does not get out of groups. But I will enjoy it.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesPeople keep saying Season 3 C9 got swept but if so, I thought Fnatic def C9 2-1 ? Or, am I thinking of something else ?
S92nB3 votesWhy should I trust a post without the posters name revealed and a link without a preview.
Juggernaut6283 votesLUL
Butt Handler3 votesWhat about Imaqtpie. he's #1.
MystDragoon3 votesNo one even voted for Levi, jungler from GAM? While many see the team as a whole as gimmicky (which I don't buy), Levi himself is unquestionably a top tier jungler.
GeminiRune2 votesThis is actually one list I cannot be too questionable of. It shines proper praise on the incline of fresher players and the still existing cohesion formed out of the Longzhu members. In a way it does come to show that not every Korean player is top notch definitively; competition all year has been at a rough patch even among the best - a best on the year ranking would be a rather pain to go through.
As for those few questionable ones in case wondering: Meiko, Bjergsen, Scout, and Doublelift. Nothing against their positions; just felt they'd be lower (off for the latter) is all.
TheeBull2 votesI think Rekkles got snubbed here. Fnatic as a whole stumbled in the post season, but it was by no means Rekkles's doing. He did everything imaginable to drag the rest of Fnatic through. I really think he deserves better.
Adrenilyn2 votesWhy no love for Biofrost? He is a support that makes so many plays for TSM. Not even an Honorable Mention. Bio plays what his team needs him to play and he plays just as well if not better than Gorilla. It is sad that these teams from KR get so much respect. It is like College football when the SEC teams get ranked so high and fail during the season and finally the playoffs. OMG Longzhu beat SKT. Losses happen but that does not make them the best in the world at their positions. Faker is probably still #1, but I am rattled that Biofrost did not make top 20. He deserves it. I have him 13th on my list.
ChompyWulf3 votesOlleh > Biofrost.
RuizDarko2 voteshow the F is doublelift even on this list, if they actually factored how players performed in the previous worlds tournament. He wouldn't even be in top 50 (exaggeration maybe top30), he face planted so hard, which he even admitted (kudos to him since he's almost the definition of a person with a god complex) of playing horrible. Another example of NA bias, kind of makes me, they so called "Game Analysts" bring shame to me, my family, my state, and NA in general. They need to step back and be more objective.
Scarlet Tear5 voteswtf are you talking about, Deficio is from eu and PapaSmithy is from Australia who broadcasts korean games so how is that NA bias?
WakeOG2 votesI don't understand how Jensen isn't on here... Even TSM fans have to agree. C9 may not have the best regular season out of the other teams, but every year in worlds they step it up and prove why they made it, and Jensen is a big part of that. He has his bad days and doesn't do well, oh wait.... Jensen is almost always the guy you can look at who is consistently good. In losses, he puts up high amounts of damage and rarely dies. His KDA in the regular season was above 8. That's insane. And the the thing is, he isn't a KDA player. He has amazing positioning and knows his limits, he's so fun to watch play no matter what team you support. The fact he's not on this list when bjerg was near 10, and Perkz WAS SOMEHOW ON THIS LIST... I just don't get it.
ChompyWulf3 votesIt's because Jensen is a different breed of kda player. He gets leads and wins his lane.....and sits on it. Doesn't apply the pressure to other areas and claim objectives with his lead, he waits for the teamfights to start breaking out to do anything. That's not good enough for a would-be top notch mid laner.
The real question is, with an amazing split that netted him the most massive victory in the voting of top players, how did Olleh not make the list?
MysterQ2 votesToo unproven on the world's stage I am assuming.... granted Bjerg and DLift have proven on large stage only....
ChompyWulf1 votesBjerg has at least usually been good enough on the World stage that TSM crumbles around him and he just can't hard carry against competition that good. As for DLift? He did awful last worlds. He barely played in Spring, and had a pretty forgettable first half of summer. I don't see how he ranked over Olleh other than bias and the TSM hype train.
MysterQ1 votesI don't disagree with you on DLift. It kind of feels like they needed to build up TSM (NA in general) somehow.
But I think Olleh had enough reasons to not be on the list. I mean afterall.... he wasn't even season MVP.
ChompyWulf1 votesI can kinda understand why Olleh is left out because he has never been to worlds, but when was the last time a support was widely considered an MVP candidate in NA? His name was thrown around a lot with guys like Bjerg, Jensen, and Xmithie.
Dafnatar2 votesJensen had the most dominant split in na history best bjergsen in all star team and he is not on that list ? What a shame !
ChompyWulf1 votesHe had best stats, but he wasn't dominant. To be dominant he had to take those fed games and GO win the game, not wait and wait for teamfights to come to him and let his sidelines struggle. It's perfectly fair.
Albsoto2 votesIs missing one name... PEANUT
Ouhbaba1 votesif you watched the LCK league, you'd know that peanut had a very poor split, maybe because the tank meta doesn't suit him or because his aggressive style doesn't mix too well with the control and strangle style that SKT is known for, but Blank was by far the best SKT jungler.
Youngblood2342 votesI still have to question the #20 Choice as Doublelift, so many other players deserved it
Dumpster 8aby1 votesHow did Doublelift (#19 - Jatt; #20 - PapaSmithy; Not Ranked - Deficio) surpass Perkz (#18 - Deficio; **#19 **- PapaSmithy; Not Ranked - Jatt)?
ChompyWulf2 votesHow did DLift get all this love and none for Olleh?
Pokira2 votesMy guess is that they ranked a bit further than 20, but don't show it, and so DLift's 3rd ranking is high enough compared to Perkz 3rd ranking that he passes him up. Otherwise, I have no clue.
Spiffy McBang2 votesI haven't seen the discussion show for this, but on The Dive, Jatt said he ranked them down through #30. I don't know about the other two. It sounded like they may not have, in which case I'm pretty sure they would have discussed which one they as a group would rather put in at #20.
Morte Sumus1 votesThe real top 3 3: Khan 2: Faker 1: Huni The fact that Huni didn't even make it on the list makes me distrust it off the bat.
Ouhbaba3 votesIn my opinion, Huni wasn't even the best performing top laner on his own team, so how can he be high on that list. However, I wish Khan would've been put higher with his extremely good split where all top laners were playing tank meta and struggling to shine and he just crushed the competition with his carry picks.
Moiri1 votesthe fact that you put Huni #1 makes me distrust if you even LOL. Obviously you never followed LCK after MSI