TL is legit worse than every single team in MSI right now except for Buffalo. Make NA play in round 1 not round 2. They do not deserve it. Now they cannot get into MSI group stage because all regions will be able to shit on NA now. After watching any NA team I want to vomit. Also only give NA 1 world spot and 1 wild card and let other teams from better regions join. NA IS NOT WORTH IT
GeminiRune1 votesYknow Flash Wolves is still in this tournament right? Oh right, nobody remembers that!
III BAKURYU III 1 votesTo be fair to Flash Wolves.......they tend to play spoiler to NA and I have to agree with Juester that NA doesn't deserve 3 World Spots, maybe 2 but not 3.
Once again I got hyped for MSI knowing NA is NA but I made a bold prediction for TL(7-3) and yeah. Always tell myself this is it in believing in NA and I'm done.
That Xmithie Rift Herald was the perfect example of TL at this tournament{ Gets placed......does nothing......dies. }
Doublelift ' Hmm, I guess I'll just walk into mid lane with vision on Galio to my left, Kalista in lane and hearing Dragon was taken with Sylas MIA'........
And it's a discussion that NA ISN'T a minor region at this point? or how it's a debate on NA > EU or EU >NA
Well.......at least Worlds is next and Cloud 9 can die for our sins(again) hopefully....possibly......probably not.....IDk
GeminiRune1 votesIt's easy to be a depressed mope about NA isn't it? It's always easy to use history, every one game, every play. Time and time again.
Yeah that game was awful for TL. Xmithie looked clueless after the catch 22 by Clid at the early game. DL blind picked himself into a losing matchup given champions and comps. The rest trickled around that. To me it was just a poorly executed game. But at least TL didn't just roll over and die; positonal misplays while trying to take some ground is better than do nothing. They didn't get absolutely annihilated for composition hubris. It was just a bad game.
It's nothing to blow the fuck up about at this point...
III BAKURYU III 1 votes......Um yeah.....it is. I understand wanting to believe in your team/region etc and it's commendable but damn, you can cheer for such until the cows come home, dude. S$it is getting old.
It's like Pacer fans thinking they can beat LeBron and it just never happened. And now it's Rockets against the Warriors.
Team Liquid is clearly nowhere near SKT, G2 or IG so they'll most likely will be (0-6). Would take 1 loss against(most likely Flash Wolves) in a tie-breaker and we all know how NA fairs in tie-breakers to not even make it to Playoff stage.
I don't care about NA making it to such Playoff stage for World #seed etc but in the end we've had a #1 seed and done s$it with such.
GeminiRune1 votesShit gets old cause to the regular hivemind of the NA Suxdom. Heads are years stuck up rear ends to the point that anyone there has 0 faith. Hell you even said it: playoffs isnt good enough. It's victory or nothing; coincidentially a phrase that was the theme of an LPL split sometime ago.
So here come these posts with no logical framing as to what would be a better solution other than "tAkE tHeiR spOt" and what used to be "GivE iT tO KorEaN" - now nothing really. Just to vent and decapitate NA reputation worse than Weibo. Why? THAT to me is more ridiculous!
Rational fans would see this a possibility in Liquid. For my personal case, it doesn't phase me. Then again, nothing ever does since I just like the competition. But I'd never just bury for no reason and think everyone below - notably play in - to be infinitely better.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesI said in a post that if NA doesn't put on a good showing and/or make it to the Playoff stage then NA needs to give up 1 spot to say EU instead. If League truly is at a point where it's Western vs Eastern then NA needs to give up 1 of it's seeds to EU.
If you're a GM and your employees don't do their job do you say ' Oh, well I have faith that you'll get it done..... I mean you haven't done much of anything for 4-5 years but mediocre success.
I think Solaire from Dark Souls would be proud of you for your faith. PRAISE THE SUN!
Here's another solution is to eliminate the foreign only rule for teams: If an NA team is all Eastern players than maybe NA won't be total ass on the International stage, or at this point, all European players. I could be a bit wrong for NA and it's root of the problem is Doublelift taking up 1/3 of the NA spots.
"Rational fans" I think you're the only NA fan at this point.
"I just like the competition" Well, NA isn't much competition it seems.
At this point I think Vaevictis Esports could beat Team Liquid or most of the NA teams. Flash Wolves played spoiler to NA, again...
P.S I may seem rude, annoying etc but F$CK I really do care and I've been on these boards for 5 years now rooting for NA and.........when will it end? TELL ME GEM.... TELL ME!!?!?!
GeminiRune1 votesIt ends when Riot realizes that this season format of competition has run its course of history. The competitive landscape is entering franchises all over the world and still we only get up to four teams per region to competitively represent twice a year under an international banner?! (omitting All Stars)
Pardon if this might be all over the place:
Competitive landscape is my picking point right here. Two chances for a team - its so called best - to represent as it's always been. I can name you one region that genuinely didn't apply to this MSI: Brazil's INTZ. A team riddled with their losses and mistakes but lo behold they won at the right place and time and just as expected by some didn't live up to that stand. But no; fans...analysts will cradle to history like a precious baby and think they'll magically pick up exactly where their last appearance left off if it even matters. It was mentioned once: INTZ fell to relegations since their last stint and picked up the scraps to get back. They aren't magically their last stint and that showed. The same cannot be said for Liquid though.
I made this comment in Azca33's thread on why it is depressing to be a NA fan. Personally, I'm not depressed but instead disappointed. I think that's how most hurting fans feel; not "not again, NA" but "not again, Liquid."
Plugs the same to many teams who demonstrate that frequency before - TSM, Dire Wolves, Rampage/Pentagram, Lyon/R7, Flash Wolves, EDward Gaming; similar plugs in different ways. If it's a similar roster with with a similar formula of success, then there's only going to be but so much to expect and for the NA case, it results in that low bar if the competition around it has demonstrated more promise. And here we are again. That's not a NA problem to me other than that another team couldn't prevent it from being this way again, even at the risk of a worse result by a greener roster; TSM counted as such in my case given the amount of changes made.
We all have the data on Liquid based on their 2018, hence why we could all make our own line of expectations and predictions. I didn't even make a prediction for Liquid in fact! I called out my top three and propped the remaining with:
The rest of the pack I need proof; don't care how they end up.
That's me doubting Liquid because of their track record as the core roster they have been. But now that it's happening, here comes the punishing of the region to Wildcard levels of relegation talk. At this point it's is like saying you forfeit whatever support you have for the region, especially since that term nowadays seems to be synonymous to a region that has no talent promise whatsoever to the point they are not relevant and only exist for upsets unless proven otherwise. This right here is what pisses me off about the eSports community and this thread. If anyone thinks it'll magically be any different, high chance is that it isn't. Neither will be stripping seeds. That right there just reduces your chances of seeing the team you want to represent actually do so. And then what? Do we run the same beaten story and strip another seed until they're deemed dead?
Hence my opening point: the competitive season just needs a soft reset, especially with more orgs wanting a stake in the scene however they can.
I'll let you in on something. I used to be a mod in Azubu streams when that platform was around. I said it then, I stand by it now: I used to be a fan of Curse, then they recruited Piglet, then bandwagoning happened and I stopped caring about being a fan of anything but the competition. That's why these days I can settle my head to be level minded about these developments, point out flaws, poke a bit of fun, and frankly just speak against these irrational ideas fans have from their frustrations as fans of failure. I was quite vocal about that too in the Azubu Chat. We'd just go back n forth; no memes, just points taken and proven.
People who call themselves NA fans need to find their own way to alleviate their suffering; possibly without burning bridges with the region all together. One team of a region is never and has never been all teams of the region. The rest is just up to you
III BAKURYU III 1 votesI haven't enjoyed the last couple of years from a meta/league standpoint and I suppose that has played a big factor when NA does bad it 10x folds my anger overall. + IDK about you but I couldn't agree more with what Amazing said about MSI " It doesn't feel like a mini worlds, it feels a lot more like All-Stars to me than anything else" -Amazing Now he could mean something different but this meta is nothing but fight, fight, fight 24/7 and it's annoying to watch. If NA can't do much of anything in this new League/Meta.....when in the past games were 40+min long, think 20 steps ahead, vision, map control than I have no confidence in NA, at all.
"One team of a region is never and has never been all teams of the region" Except it has for the case of NA. It's not like NA sends Apollo led Dignitas, Clutch Gaming, Echo Fox or John Doe lead teams to International events.. We send all 3 best NA teams in which 2016 Spring/Summer was the only year NA legit had 5 REALLY GOOD teams(TSM, C9, CLG, IMT, TL) With also the already pointed out Cloud 9 being the NA saviors year-in-and-year-out.
Overall, I just don't care or enjoy League and I try to watch the LCS etc but when you dont' have the enthusiasm as you once did how can you?
RIP Team Liquid MSI Day 1 - MSI Day 2
BigBellBrute1 votes[{quoted}](name=Itz D Exorcist ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ImgmXUTN,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-12T08:51:53.564+0000)
......Um yeah.....it is. I understand wanting to believe in your team/region etc and it's commendable but damn, you can cheer for such until the cows come home, dude. S$it is getting old.
It's like Pacer fans thinking they can beat LeBron and it just never happened. And now it's Rockets against the Warriors.
Team Liquid is clearly nowhere near SKT, G2 or IG so they'll most likely will be (0-6). Would take 1 loss against(most likely Flash Wolves) in a tie-breaker and we all know how NA fairs in tie-breakers to not even make it to Playoff stage.
I don't care about NA making it to such Playoff stage for World #seed etc but in the end we've had a #1 seed and done s$it with such.
Nowhere near G2? Yet they went 1-1 against them and didn't even have to play a tie breaker. And they smashed G2 in that 2nd game despite having two very late scalers in their comp when it was very important for both teams. G2 had to win it to keep their shot at 2nd and as we saw it ended up getting LQ in.
Hmmmmmm. I'm not arguing they're better than G2. But let's not put G2 up as beyond our reach yet. They went 5-5 in a meta that favors them. Yes they had that win against SKT and LQ didn't. But they also dropped a game to PVB and LQ didn't.
III BAKURYU III 2 votesYeah, TL is still nowhere near G2's level of play and going 1-1. PVB went 2-0 against G2.... are you stating that PVB are near G2's level? And if so "I'm not arguing they're better than G2" than are PVB better than TL or worse or equal? Or is it a safety net thing where it's
BigBellBrute1 votes[{quoted}](name=Itz D Exorcist ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ImgmXUTN,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-14T21:14:28.607+0000)
Yeah, TL is still nowhere near G2's level of play and going 1-1. PVB went 2-0 against G2.... are you stating that PVB are near G2's level? And if so "I'm not arguing they're better than G2" than are PVB better than TL or worse or equal? Or is it a safety net thing where it's
- LCK
- LPL
- Everyone else
5-5 vs 4-6 dude and 1-1 head to head.
And no, nobody said PVB is near G2. They're 2-8 So your counter example is completely flawed. And yes, your tie breaker prediction was wrong too.
Just own that your toxicity was wrong. Say it, and own it.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesAre we cross? If so, than let me apologize as I meant no ill-will. I will say you seem to be the one that appears on boards just to be that guy that thinks he's 100% right and has some sort of vendetta to correct anyone and everyone. If anyone is "toxic" it's you.
BigBellBrute1 votes[{quoted}](name=Itz D Exorcist ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ImgmXUTN,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T02:54:07.608+0000)
Are we cross? If so, than let me apologize as I meant no ill-will. I will say you seem to be the one that appears on boards just to be that guy that thinks he's 100% right and has some sort of vendetta to correct anyone and everyone. If anyone is "toxic" it's you.
Tell me again oh all knowing one how everyone is so much better than LQ.
III BAKURYU III 1 votesI was wrong. Also, I never said I was this all knowing person tho...... it does have a nice ring to it.
III BAKURYU III 1 votes" Yeah, TL is still nowhere near G2's level" 3-0..................G2 EU SPORTS
56 Kills 7 Dragons 26 Towers G2 13 Kills 1 Dragon 5 Towers TL
1-1 in Groups tho, right?
GOD! I love being "ALL KNOWING"
LATA
BigBellBrute1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Juester,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ImgmXUTN,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-12T07:56:32.040+0000)
TL is legit worse than every single team in MSI right now except for Buffalo. Make NA play in round 1 not round 2. They do not deserve it. Now they cannot get into MSI group stage because all regions will be able to shit on NA now. After watching any NA team I want to vomit. Also only give NA 1 world spot and 1 wild card and let other teams from better regions join. NA IS NOT WORTH IT
Ok so you think LQ didn't deserve to go right to play in knock outs. Let's go into that assessment shall we? Assuming you think the Flash Wolves did deserve to go to play in knock out, who of all the other round 1 teams most deserved to go to knock out instead of Liquid? Well that is easy to answer. Which team not named liquid or flash wolves did the best out of all the teams in round 1. That team was clearly CVB because they made it from round 1 all the way to the main draw. Given that PVB is the most deserving team from round 1, did they in fact deserve to be placed directly in the knock out stage over Liquid. Well liquid beat them 3-0 in that play in knock out stage and beat them twice in group stage. So the answer is no. The results clearly show then that Liquid deserved to be placed directly into that group knock out stage.
