The first 30 minutes CLG easily outplayed TSM as a team but the reason they were only even was the stupid ahri into zed pick.... Like in what world have you seen that match up work well for the ahri player against a good zed player.... lissandra mid was open, viktor mid was open, diana mid was open...... That ahri pick gives 0 positives in anything and its 100% on coach and player to last pick it.
The Blue Rooster3 votesViktor is still disabled in the LCS.
4nth0l0gy1 votesWait he's disabled? Why's that?
Pigby2 votesDiana doesn't do well when behind, and if Link is playing her vs Bjergsen's Zed, she's going to get behind.
Ahri vs Zed isn't terrible. It's mostly a skill matchup.
The problem is that the only way Link is going to beat Bjergsen in a skill match is if Bjergsen falls asleep at his computer 5 minutes into the game.
tyt9211 votesDiana doesn't do well when behind, and if Link is playing her vs Bjergsen's Zed, she's going to get behind.
Ahri vs Zed isn't terrible. It's mostly a skill matchup.
The problem is that the only way Link is going to beat Bjergsen in a skill match is if Bjergsen falls asleep at his computer 5 minutes into the game.
U got me. I thought u were gonna say something serious here "The problem is that the only way Link is going to Beat Bjerg.."
then I just fell off my chair at work and ROFL
Tentacle Love1 votesAnd they teased Urgot too. It's not like they didn't see the other options. They knew Zed was a problem and they walked into it just like TSM walked into their counter yesterday.
Wrath of Kon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Love Tentacle,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EVvMmL3O,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-22T21:21:17.300+0000)
And they teased Urgot too. It's not like they didn't see the other options. They knew Zed was a problem and they walked into it just like TSM walked into their counter yesterday.
honestly zed can't do anything if he gets countered. And the way CLG plays you just needed to pick his counter because they outplayed everyone else in that match. Dyrus was nothing, double was farmed and xsmitie was just pressuring perfectly. The only thing to keep tsm in was not picking the counter to zed
Reynard the ƒox1 votesI also think that letting Corki through was a huge lapse in judgement, but yeah, Link 100% should have picked something else.
Wrath of Kon1 votesI also think that letting Corki through was a huge lapse in judgement, but yeah, Link 100% should have picked something else.
not really. I think CLG was in perfect position most of the early game if you just had a counterpick mid.
NeoDeimos1 votesIf by "perfect position most of the early game", you mean "at least 3 out of 5 CLG members were statistically behind TSM at the 10 minute mark" ...
I'm re-watching the game right now, and paused right at the 10 minute mark (basically right after Zion escapes TSM's second gank attempt when TSM took down top turret to even the count at 1 per team.
CLG's advantages: 1 dragon Zion is ahead by 1 level and 7 CS over Dyrus Aphro is ahead by 5 CS over Lustboy
TSM's advantages: Santorin is ahead by 1 level, 10 CS, and 1 assist over Xmithie Bjergsen is ahead by 1 level and 22 CS over Link Turtle is ahead by 2 CS and 1 kill over DoubleLift Lustboy is ahead by 1 assist over Aphro.
Also, CLG has just 1 ward past river - in the bush above bot inner turret, across from red buff. Meanwhile, TSM had CLG's red side jungle completely covered in wards between the 9-10 minute mark - 1 was taken out at the raptor camp, another was taken out in the same bush that CLG had warded on TSM's side. 1 still placed in the tri brush, and one that Bjerg just put down on the other side of the river wall next to raptors. And if you wanted to factor in the Rek'Sai tunnels, don't bother. Xmithie only had one on TSM's side, near raptors.
So again, I ask what you mean by "perfect position most of the early game". Apparently what you really mean is "CLG was really struggling to stay slightly behind TSM for most of the early game".
ZeroAnarchy1 votesThey also kept camping Dyrus which let not only Bjerg but also Turtle to get ahead.
Wrath of Kon1 votesThey also kept camping Dyrus which let not only Bjerg but also Turtle to get ahead.
turtle was never ahead actually. And bjerg isn't really gonna be a problem if you just counter his ult engage.
NeoDeimos1 votesNor was Turtle ever really behind. IIRC Turtle got first blood, and was never behind by more than about 10 cs until after laning phase ended.
Smart Kitty1 votesThere is the possibility Link couldn't play Urgot that well. Still though, I think they should've picked the Liss at least.
Wrath of Kon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Smart Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EVvMmL3O,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-03-22T21:36:24.450+0000)
There is the possibility Link couldn't play Urgot that well. Still though, I think they should've picked the Liss at least.
and if you are going to play a mobile mid just go LB.
Modnar Erom1 votesNah, the problem was earlier.
They don't ban Zed. Fail.
They put Aphromoo (their best playmaker) on Jana (which they even wasted a first pick on). Double Fail.
Repeating the same behavior and expecting different results is just.....
The Kennen pick for Zion was a little strange too, but I'd give that a pass. With AP top lane, they could have played Yasuo mid. Still, the main problems were Zed disrespect and forcing their best play maker to play with 1 hand tied behind his back.
Linthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Modnar Erom,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EVvMmL3O,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-03-23T01:34:27.020+0000)
- They put Aphromoo (their best playmaker) on Jana (which they even wasted a first pick on). Double Fail.
Yea, I agree with this. I found it "interesting" that Aphro and Lust swapped champs and roles. I think that was the reasoning behind it. Lustboy is really good on Janna and inconsistent on champs like say Annie.
Droogzy1 votesShhh no one must know that Diana does reallllllly well against Zed.
[{quoted}](name=Modnar Erom,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EVvMmL3O,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-03-23T01:34:27.020+0000)
Nah, the problem was earlier.
They don't ban Zed. Fail.
They put Aphromoo (their best playmaker) on Jana (which they even wasted a first pick on). Double Fail.
Repeating the same behavior and expecting different results is just.....
The Kennen pick for Zion was a little strange too, but I'd give that a pass. With AP top lane, they could have played Yasuo mid. Still, the main problems were Zed disrespect and forcing their best play maker to play with 1 hand tied behind his back.
My guess is the Janna pick was a knee jerk reaction to the Zed, in the heat of the moment it makes sense, but in retrospect not really. Putting Apromoo on a passive support was definitely a mistake in hindsight. They could have easily put him on Leona and still be able to lock him down.
They also knew in game Dyrus was getting camped into tomorrow, but did nothing to help him.
Droogzy1 votesIt's really difficult to fall behind as Diana against Zed, the usual build pattern for Diana is to max her Q first and use Doran's Ring. But against a Zed, You start with cloth 5 and ability wise, W, then Q, by six, you should have 2 points in Q and 2 points in W. He barely hurts at all, and she's capable of fighting back really well in Zed's all in. Her shield will take the initial death mark damage, refreshes, than block off even more damage.
Though you are right, Link Diana v.s. Bjergson Zed, he'd probably get annihilated, but for the rest of us plebeians, Diana is a great pick against Zed.
Minrog1 votesI think they threw Link under the bus in that match. He doesn't match up very well in skill level against Bjerg; in every other position they have winning match ups but they focused all their jungle pressure top and didn't do any support roaming. I blame Doublelift mostly, because he spent 30 minutes running away and by the time he actually joined the team it was too late for him to matter.
It's only one game, and I still am a CLG fan, but kind of disappointed. Would have liked to see something other than Ahri mid if Link isn't gonna get any support 1v2 the whole laning phase.
NeoDeimos1 votesI fail to see how CLG "easily outplayed" TSM. CLG had a gold lead for a total of 5 minutes at most, and even then it was only a couple hundred. Nothing CLOSE to what I would call "easily outplaying". Dyrus was far behind. Link was far behind. Unlike what you've mentioned further below, Xmithie wasn't putting as much pressure on the map as you think, as evidence by the many times the commentators pointed out that TSM had many more wards out. In addition, Santorin was more farmed. Also, Turtle and Double were pretty much tied in gold until after laning phase ended.
This doesn't even mention the fact that the main reason TSM won was because of better rotation while getting first baron, which didn't really have anything to do with Zed.
TSM just played better, stop trying to justify the loss.