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Well that was an odd removal

KFCeytron··4 votes·6,128 views

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/fmb2JamM-typical-league-why-do-i-expect-more

Someone replies with the following:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/rant

Someone else a little later:

You are here calling people pansies for reporting you, and yet here you are crying about it...

A mod later replies with the following:

...If you want to actually discuss your ban and not just rant...

I post a reply of my own:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/rant

Ulanopo deleted my reply and locked the thread.

So, we have multiple people including a mod telling the OP that their thread is a rant, other replies that don't exactly beat around the bush, and a lock for content not constructive enough for PB... but my reply pointing out the rant (and one other reply from someone else, the content of which I don't recall) was the one that needed to be stricken from the record before an inappropriate thread was locked.

I'm not even mad. At this point, all I can really do is shake my head, have a little giggle, and hope ChickenWrap responds with kitten (cat by now?) pictures.

15 Comments

Umbral Regent5 votes

When the comment is quite literally just linking the OP to the RANT subforum, then it's not really adding anything to the discussion. It's needlessly curt, and frankly disrespectful.

Imagine if all I did was respond to this thread with that same link. Y'know what that'd tell you? "This thread isn't worth my time to legitimately respond to, and you're better off going somewhere where the explicit goal is to yell ineffectually into the void".

And that kind of implicit disrespect is definitely something I would consider worth removal - and generally, the Moderation Team seems to have the same idea, since this isn't the first time comments have been removed for doing nothing further than linking the RANT subforum.

KFCeytron3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=akYyOYBT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-17T10:25:02.012+0000)

When the comment is quite literally just linking the OP to the RANT subforum, then it's not really adding anything to the discussion. It's needlessly curt, and frankly disrespectful.

Imagine if all I did was respond to this thread with that same link. Y'know what that'd tell you? "This thread isn't worth my time to legitimately respond to, and you're better off going somewhere where the explicit goal is to yell ineffectually into the void".

And that kind of implicit disrespect is definitely something I would consider worth removal - and generally, the Moderation Team seems to have the same idea, since this isn't the first time comments have been removed for doing nothing further than linking the RANT subforum.

My post came after another post with the exact same content (not removed), as well as a mod post calling the thread a rant (not removed).

Umbral Regent4 votes

My post came after another post with the exact same content (not removed)...

The first comment in question aught to be removed. I'm not sure if it was incidentally overlooked when the thread was locked or what, but I do know that I reported both.

Whatever the case, commenting with just the RANT subforum link after someone else already did doesn't make it any better; in point of fact, it only makes it worse. Someone already went ahead with the disrespect, and then you decided to drive the nail in further with redundancy. That's not great, dude.

...as well as a mod post calling the thread a rant (not removed).

And the Moderator comment in question had much more to it than simply calling the post a rant; and even if it had exclusively been this line:

If you want to actually discuss your ban and not just rant then please post your entire unedited chat logs here.

It would still have been far better than simply linking the RANT subforum with literally no other content.

And the Moderator comment was more than just calling the OP's thread a rant. It was two whole paragraphs, and calling the thread a rant was the very least of it.

So, if you're drawing the conclusion that the removal of your comment was simply for calling the thread a rant, you're drawing the wrong conclusion. To that end, here's a relevant section from the Player Behavior Rules.

Be Helpful

In general, all responses should assume good intent on the part of the poster, even if there is strong evidence to the contrary. The only exception is when Riot officially presents evidence of misbehavior.

Most people who come to Player Behavior after a ban or chat restriction are frustrated, angry or upset. It is important that our responses remain positive and come from a genuine desire to help them understand what happened and why. Replies that are overly negative, dismissive or combative are not appropriate and may be removed.

These include (but are not limited to):

  • Telling people you’re glad they’re banned.
  • Low-effort taunts such as the Rammus “ok”.
  • Saying the community is better off without them.

I italicized the most important line from the rule. It's also worth pointing out that simply posting links to the RANT subforum is functionally "low-effort taunts" as listed in the actionable offenses.

KFCeytron3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=akYyOYBT,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-17T10:49:21.081+0000)

The first comment in question aught to be removed. I'm not sure if it was incidentally overlooked when the thread was locked or what, but I do know that I reported both.

Yes. Thus, my conclusion of "an odd removal." Wouldn't you agree with that assessment?

Whatever the case, commenting with just the RANT subforum link after someone else already did doesn't make it any better; in point of fact, it only makes it worse. Someone already went ahead with the disrespect, and then you decided to drive the nail in further with redundancy. That's not great, dude.

Actually, I posted that reply before reading the other replies.

And the Moderator comment in question had much more to it than simply calling the post a rant; and even if it had exclusively been this line:

It would still have been far better than simply linking the RANT subforum with literally no other content.

And the Moderator comment was more than just calling the OP's thread a rant. It was two whole paragraphs, and calling the thread a rant was the very least of it.

That just means that a bare link is not acceptable and we need copy-paste boilerplate. Okay! I can totally do more copy-paste. I've updated my PB copy-paste file to include that.

So, if you're drawing the conclusion that the removal of your comment was simply for calling the thread a rant, you're drawing the wrong conclusion. To that end, here's a relevant section from the Player Behavior Rules.

I italicized the most important line from the rule. It's also worth pointing out that simply posting links to the RANT subforum is functionally "low-effort taunts" as listed in the actionable offenses.

The good intent we assume until proven otherwise by a Rioter is that they haven't been misrepresenting their behavior, such as e.g. claiming that the entirety of their logs was "good job, everyone" when they were actually spamming slurs. When the post itself is nothing but an insult and a dismissal, linking to RANT is a statement not about their in-game behavior, but about their post. And it's not wrong, nor is it a taunt. It's a pointer to the correct Board for their post, just like a mod would provide when they delete the thread. Same goes for Gameplay, too, which now has higher standards than it used to.

Umbral Regent3 votes

Yes. Thus, my conclusion of "an odd removal." Wouldn't you agree with that assessment?

No. The removal of your comment was not an odd one; the other same-such comment remaining is the odd part.

Actually, I posted that reply before reading the other replies.

Then nix the insult to injury; incidental redundancy aside, it's still a zero-effort, zero-content dismissal.

That just means that a bare link is not acceptable and we need copy-paste boilerplate. Okay! I can totally do more copy-paste. I've updated my PB copy-paste file to include that.

I'm going to be frank, though I've run the topic with you before; I personally loathe seeing copy-paste responses. I'm not going to grill you about it, since you and the Moderation Team came to a middle-ground about versatile response templates, but I'll still voice my displeasure.

Set up your templates as you will, just try not to lean too hard on it.

The good intent we assume until proven otherwise by a Rioter is that they haven't been misrepresenting their behavior, such as e.g. claiming that the entirety of their logs was "good job, everyone" when they were actually spamming slurs. When the post itself is nothing but an insult and a dismissal, linking to RANT is a statement not about their in-game behavior, but about their post.

This brings up the issue of "The Letter of the Rules" versus "The Spirit of the Rules", and in this case, the spirit of the rules is what's been broken. Yes, the description for the "Be Helpful" rule notes to assume good intent on the part of the poster regarding the self-assessment of their behavior, but that's not the important part of the rule.

It is important that our responses remain positive and come from a genuine desire to help them understand what happened and why. Replies that are overly negative, dismissive or combative are not appropriate and may be removed.

This part here is what encapsulates the spirit of the rule, which is to engage posters and try to help them; not tell them off.

And it's not wrong, nor is it a taunt. It's a pointer to the correct Board for their post, just like a mod would provide when they delete the thread. Same goes for Gameplay, too, which now has higher standards than it used to.

It is still overly dismissive and low-effort, especially when accompanied by no other statements. As for it not being wrong, that's something that's very frequently brought up and answered in PB itself, and the best analogy comes from Imperial Pandaa, IIRC;

"Calling a fat person fat isn't wrong, but it's still an insulting thing to say." - roughly paraphrased, of course.

Honestly speaking, if a post is so lacking in any meaningful content to discuss that your only response would be to link the RANT subforum and say nothing else, then it's probably best to just not comment at all and report the thread for Incorrect Board. If it's not worth your time to comment, don't.

ModUlanopo5 votes

Umbral Regent has the right of it:

It is still overly dismissive and low-effort, especially when accompanied by no other statements. As for it not being wrong, that's something that's very frequently brought up and answered in PB itself, and the best analogy comes from Imperial Pandaa, IIRC;

"Calling a fat person fat isn't wrong, but it's still an insulting thing to say." - roughly paraphrased, of course.

Honestly speaking, if a post is so lacking in any meaningful content to discuss that your only response would be to link the RANT subforum and say nothing else, then it's probably best to just not comment at all and report the thread for Incorrect Board. If it's not worth your time to comment, don't.

The other comment has been removed. In general, you should let us as moderators decide what does or does not belong in RANT, doubly so in Player Behavior.

rujitra4 votes

Yeah, I’m not sure if they’ve had a change in policy, but I’ve seen many more threads and comments than normal get replied to by a moderator when they obviously merit deletion.

I get that moderator can’t see everything and that’s why reports are important but it’s crazy to say “we read and responded to a post but didn’t see it”.

DoranShieldOp2 votes

or they have different opinion from you?

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

There's a difference between moderators doing their job and using double standards.

DoranShieldOp4 votes

about time you stopped posting rant under everyone's posts anyways it's getting a bit old you know

KFCeytron5 votes

{quoted}

about time you stopped posting rant under everyone's posts anyways it's getting a bit old you know

about time people stopped posting rants under the wrong boards anyways it's getting a bit old you know

DoranShieldOp2 votes

lol everything to you is a rant when you too posted new players struggle to get into the game because of bots i considered that a rant did i link you to rant tho?

it's easy to not be that person every damn time too..

Sukishoo1 votes

If you believe it goes in another forum, it's best to just report it rather than posting on the thread with a link to said forum. That honestly offers nothing for the person, other than you dismissing the conversation entirely. Or at least you could politely tell them where it goes, since again a link alone really doesn't say anything.

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