"Avoid copy-paste" rule in PB should be removed

KFCeytron·Aug 27, 2019·2 votes·6,629 views

90% of those threads make the exact same claims and ask the exact same questions. There's even a "Player Behavior bingo" card floating around that people sometimes fill out and post as a response. Actually providing answers to those questions is a ton better, and if there's nothing really unique to say in response to a thread, it shouldn't require any. Pure copy-paste should be perfectly acceptable wherever it suffices. If Boards software had some Stack Exchange-like features (e.g. close votes) to clean up common questions that would be better, but copy-paste is all we've got and there's no reason to penalize people just for already knowing an answer to a common question.

18 Comments

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20194 votes

That was a rule we carefully considered. It has several pros/cons, but the overriding concern that players were responding to frustrated individuals with generic copy/paste rather than actually taking the time to address the individual in question finally won out. If you don't feel it's important to at least modify your standard template a bit to address the specific situation, simply don't respond, as that's a good sign you're not really interested in putting in the time anyway.

It's not an especially hard rule (I wouldn't object to a copy/paste response on Riot's unban experiment or why Riot doesn't like prisoner's islands), but when frustrated players feel like the board is a bunch of bots it makes the environment worse for everyone.

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=AfLTwqxj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-27T14:18:53.668+0000)

That was a rule we carefully considered. It has several pros/cons, but the overriding concern that players were responding to frustrated individuals with generic copy/paste rather than actually taking the time to address the individual in question finally won out. If you don't feel it's important to at least modify your standard template a bit to address the specific situation, simply don't respond, as that's a good sign you're not really interested in putting in the time anyway.

It's not an especially hard rule (I wouldn't object to a copy/paste response on Riot's unban experiment or why Riot doesn't like prisoner's islands), but when frustrated players feel like the board is a bunch of bots it makes the environment worse for everyone.

I did take the time. Once. Why should I retype the same words? I sometimes do have to make slight changes, but I specifically wrote them so that I could avoid that work while still sounding natural. I've only had one person I responded to even ask whether it was copy-paste.

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20194 votes

{quoted}I sometimes do have to make slight changes...

Then you're taking the time to make sure your message is tailored to the individual situation at hand, and shouldn't be concerned. The rule doesn't say "never copy and paste." It says "If you choose to use scripts, you should also include something that is specific to that request." It sounds like you're doing that.

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=AfLTwqxj,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T14:26:11.932+0000)

Then you're taking the time to make sure your message is tailored to the individual situation at hand, and shouldn't be concerned. The rule doesn't say "never copy and paste." It says "If you choose to use scripts, you should also include something that is specific to that request." It sounds like you're doing that.

So, if I hone my pasta until it needs no tweaks to form a natural-sounding response to a wide variety of threads, that would be... bad?

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}So, if I hone my pasta until it needs no tweaks to form a natural-sounding response to a wide variety of threads, that would be... bad?

We would prefer you take the time to give even a small nod to the OP's situation or unique personal frustrations when possible, certainly. Again, however, it's not really a hard-and-fast rule so much as one we can leverage if we see someone posting the same cold/inconsiderate response to someone over and over again. If that doesn't sound like you, don't worry about it.

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=AfLTwqxj,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T14:46:51.379+0000)

We would prefer you take the time to give even a small nod to the OP's situation or unique personal frustrations when possible, certainly. Again, however, it's not really a hard-and-fast rule so much as one we can leverage if we see someone posting the same cold/inconsiderate response to someone over and over again. If that doesn't sound like you, don't worry about it.

Does "to someone" mean to the same person? Like, multiple responses to the same thread with the exact same content? Because that would just be spam, wouldn't it?

As for the "the same cold/inconsiderate response," I would think the "cold/inconsiderate" part is the problem, not the "same" part. I wouldn't want to see lovingly-handcrafted cold/inconsiderate responses. :P

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20194 votes

{quoted}Does "to someone" mean to the same person? Like, multiple responses to the same thread with the exact same content? Because that would just be spam, wouldn't it?

I mean someone using the same response to multiple people without bothering to consider how the OP's situation might be different, their concerns might be different, or their question might be slightly different.

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=AfLTwqxj,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T14:58:16.100+0000)

I mean someone using the same response to multiple people without bothering to consider how the OP's situation might be different, their concerns might be different, or their question might be slightly different.

Ah, so like, generic stuff that makes the OP think that the commenter didn't even read the post carefully? And perhaps deliberately worded to sound generic, like "Greetings, Summoner! You have been punished due to: insulting someone's person, place, or thing; intentionally feeding; having an inappropriate name; or reversing an RP purchase. I hope this answers your question."?

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}Ah, so like, generic stuff that makes the OP think that the commenter didn't even read the post carefully? And perhaps deliberately worded to sound generic, like "Greetings, Summoner! You have been punished due to: insulting someone's person, place, or thing; intentionally feeding; having an inappropriate name; or reversing an RP purchase. I hope this answers your question."?

No, more like the times we've seen cases of people posting responses to chat logs without bothering to see that the OP acknowledges the punishment but has a question about a specific part of the log, or when an OP asks for a specific piece of advice and receives generic advice not applicable to that specific question, or when an OP is especially frustrated and needs a softer approach but someone just posts their standard informative blurb without considering the OP's state.

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=AfLTwqxj,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T15:08:08.743+0000)

No, more like the times we've seen cases of people posting responses to chat logs without bothering to see that the OP acknowledges the punishment but has a question about a specific part of the log, or when an OP asks for a specific piece of advice and receives generic advice not applicable to that specific question, or when an OP is especially frustrated and needs a softer approach but someone just posts their standard informative blurb without considering the OP's state.

0.o

That sounds like... just really bad copy-paste.

What I do is I go through a post looking for certain common claims/questions ("I have a right to free speech," "my behavior used to be worse," "someone else started it," etc.) and then I collect an answer for each of those specific topics, concatenate them, and post the result. When I see a claim/question that I don't yet have an answer for but can see myself answering more than once in the future, I'll write up a new one and save it. Actually, I try to write my copy-paste answers without a specific post in mind, which lets me focus on the topic itself, avoid overly-harsh verbiage (e.g. "Riot isn't interested in retaining players with this sort of behavior" rather than "Riot doesn't want you here"), and produce something reusable.

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}That sounds like... just really bad copy-paste.

And when a problem becomes widespread enough, we put in rules about it. I'll reiterate my second post in this thread:

Then you're taking the time to make sure your message is tailored to the individual situation at hand, and shouldn't be concerned. The rule doesn't say "never copy and paste." It says "If you choose to use scripts, you should also include something that is specific to that request." It sounds like you're doing that.

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=AfLTwqxj,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T15:31:39.464+0000)

And when a problem becomes widespread enough, we put in rules about it. I'll reiterate my second post in this thread:

Okeydoke. Going by just the text of that rule, I wasn't able to grasp the intent behind it. Rephrasing it in my own words, copy-paste is fine as long as it doesn't violate other rules (spam, uncivil, etc.). I shall continue using my high-quality pasta.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 27, 20191 votes

Can you honestly say that your message can never be improved upon and fit the situation better?

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Can you honestly say that your message can never be improved upon and fit the situation better?

Not now, of course. But I'd like to at least entertain the hope that someday I might get it perfect.

GatekeeperTDSAug 27, 20192 votes

My dude, you're turning your historical desire to be helpful into a crusade these last few days and it's not helping get your point across. You've always been rational in your posts, but then it turned into a desire to purge PB of posts by people who don't agree with their punishments, and now you're up in arms because nobody wants to see your giant wall of copy-pasted text.

If PB is aggravating you, maybe take a break for a while? Like I said, historically you've been a great contributor IMO, but this is not a good look for you. Relax.

KFCeytronAug 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

My dude, you're turning your historical desire to be helpful into a crusade these last few days and it's not helping get your point across. You've always been rational in your posts, but then it turned into a desire to purge PB of posts by people who don't agree with their punishments, and now you're up in arms because nobody wants to see your giant wall of copy-pasted text.

If PB is aggravating you, maybe take a break for a while? Like I said, historically you've been a great contributor IMO, but this is not a good look for you. Relax.

Those who have been following the posts in this thread will observe that I was surprised there's a rule about copy-pasted replies because my copy-pasted replies are so good that most people can't even tell they're copy-pasted so I didn't think there should be a rule against it per se. And it turns out that there isn't; the rule is against bad copy-pasted replies, which mine aren't.

KanzlerAug 27, 20191 votes

I feel like "post chat logs" is an acceptable form of copy paste.

ModUlanopoAug 27, 20191 votes

It's worth noting that this rule descends from my efforts in the TBI. I was the one who included it in the revised PB rules. Back when we were developing the Arbiters, Keyru brought up how she felt about copy/paste responses, specifically that the whole point of people from the community responding to people was that we NOT sound cold and distant

Over time, that was just something we all got away from. I still use scripts in moderation actions, but not on the Boards themselves.