Test for "Flat" format. But also, Champion Update running discussion because why not?

RiotIronStylus·Jul 10, 2014·11 votes·27,093 views

Hi. I wanted to try out the new function that should be listed below this box that says "show as flat" and see how the system works. I wanted to see if a conversation could be had using either or both of the views.

While we're here! we'll have a general ChampUp pow-wow. All casual, this is mainly just to test, but if you have any questions/ideas/feedback we can also jam on those. I'll be on here for a little bit then head to bed. I'll check the thread in the morning also.

**EDIT: **Going to head to bed for the night. Keep the discussion going. I'll check in the morning. Also, please take any notes about how your experience is inside the thread by using the flat and nested views. I'd like to take that feedback to the team to see if any ideas that users have opinions about can be implemented or improved. Thanks!

84 Comments

CaptainWednesdayJul 10, 20145 votes

Dear IronStylus (Mr. Parrot),

Can we continue the discussion on Urgot thematics and appearance? I believe it was stated awhile back he was beyond a texture touchup and would need a complete VU. Any thoughts on the direction of the undead crab?

I noticed in his new splash his undead nipples are gone/covered. Is this foreshadowing a possible removal of those?

OH NO ITS LU BUJul 10, 20143 votes

What would you do to make Zilean "cool" as a character because currently there doesn't seem to be anything attractive about him at all.

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20148 votes

Yeah.. the "old guy" fantasy is a hard one to capture. I think there might have to be something in there that moves him more into the "cool mage" sorta area. It's fine being wise and older, but he's not quite up there with characters like Captain Picard, Professor X, Sauramon, Magneto, or other more aged gents of wisdom and badassery, Might have to dial him just a bit younger or just make him feel a bit more fit, not so much afro-santa guy..

Relentless RogueJul 10, 20145 votes

O.o Since you pulled in the Star Trek reference, maybe give Zilean some Q influence? I'm sure there's something that can be pulled outa that.

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20147 votes

Now that's a cool idea!

CuixJul 10, 20143 votes

Perhaps some of his spells can affect his visual age.

ItemsGuyJul 10, 20144 votes

Why does Zilean have to be a "cool mage" or "badass"? Aren't there other traits that could be considered appropriate for the old time wizard, or traits that would make him attractive in a way that only Zilean could be?

While I don't like to talk too much on the Trundle changes, it's similar to how you guys said "alright, we know this guy has niche appeal because he's scrappy, sarcastic, and runty, but wouldn't he be more cool, wouldn't he be really 'badass', if we beefed him up a bunch, made him king, and had him shout a bunch of hammy one-liners?" Now, that isn't to say that this sort of character doesn't have any appeal, but you end up with something of a "personality net-negative" when you throw him in with other "dumb brute" archetypes like Mundo!

Part of having such a large and diverse roster of champions, is that you have one of the biggest opportunities to really allow for niche appeal in a lot of them. You have room to really look at any champion out of the 110+ you have right now and really think, "Alright, how can we make this character appealing in a way that only this character could truly hit all the right notes on?" This is something I've felt you (collectively) have really hit home on with champions like Braum, Jinx, Vel'Koz--hell, a lot of the new champions, to be honest--but not so much on reworks like Trundle or Nasus, where the solution seemed to be "make them bigger, meaner, and crank up the 'badass' to 11." Keep in mind that you're an ice cream parlor with over a hundred flavors, so never be afraid to do a bit of exploration and stay true to a flavor that might not be the most popular or least polarizing! Cotton candy, for example, might not be the most popular flavor, but keeping it in stock won't chase away the masses of vanilla fans and chocolate lovers!

I don't think I'll speak on this much more in the future, but it would be great if you (collectively) would keep in mind that there's hundreds upon hundreds of ways to make a character appealing, and that the question instead should be, "What kind of appeal could this champion and this champion alone really hit out of the park?" I might not be the target audience for Keeper of the Light-like doddering old dudes, but that doesn't mean that there isn't an audience for them!

CupcakeTrapJul 10, 20143 votes

I agree. Genericization is highly problematic, and as you point out seems utterly unnecessary given how many Champions there are to choose from.

I really disliked the Nasus rework from "inexorable immortal" to "angry snarling dog-man with big stick".

Samuel L JaxxJul 14, 20141 votes

I still see him as inexorable immortal.

Eye of the Beholder (Velkoz?) though.

MansanaJul 10, 20143 votes

My Zhonyas Hourglass tells me that Codename: "Seth" the Sand Mage is coming soon(tm) or did he bite the dust?

Rastamon GanjaJul 10, 20143 votes

@Ironstylus

IMO the 2 champ releases a month was a little too much but this 1 champ every 2.5 + months seems a little to slow. I think 1 champ every 1.5 to 2 months is perfect. I too really liked the hints and teasers. Really built the hype and excitement of getting a new champ and lore. Riot said that they have different teams working on different things, (SR update, skins, VU/GPU, balance, new game modes, new champs etc.)so the new champ team should not be affected by the other content that is released. So why the long period between new champs? and no hints/teasers?

Don't get me wrong i really do enjoy the new game modes, skins and, VU but one of the things that I really enjoyed were the subtle hints and teases about new champs. Even though there might have been a longer period of time between champ releases, the speculation on the forums and reddit kept me interested and hyped enough between champ releases. It made it kinda fun and exciting. Sadly this really hasn't been happening recently.

I know, I know, you work with champ reworks but you work at riot, so you have to be in the loop about this issue.

Any explanations as to why?

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20143 votes

@Ironstylus IMO the 2 champ releases a month was a little too much but this 1 champ every 2.5 + months seems a little to slow. I think 1 champ every 1.5 to 2 months is perfect. I too really liked the hints and teasers. Really built the hype and excitement of getting a new champ and lore. Riot said that they have different teams working on different things, (SR update, skins, VU/GPU, balance, new game modes, new champs etc.)so the new champ team should not be affected by the other content that is released. So why the long period between new champs? and no hints/teasers? Don't get me wrong i really do enjoy the new game modes, skins and, VU but one of the things that I really enjoyed were the subtle hints and teases about new champs. Even though there might have been a longer period of time between champ releases, the speculation on the forums and reddit kept me interested and hyped enough between champ releases. It made it kinda fun and exciting. Sadly this really hasn't been happening recently. I know, I know, you work with champ reworks but you work at riot, so you have to be in the loop about this issue. Any explanations as to why?

Indeed, things have slowed down a bit. I'm not 100% up on the skinny, as you said I don't work on the team really, but I think there's a general desire to make sure things are super cohesive when a new champion comes out. I think that can take additional bake time. Aside from that I'm not privy to the nitty gritty of production, but I think one of the reasons Relaunch has become a bit more consistent is to help out the churning of new content. In some cases are team is pretty much making a new champion. My feeling is that things will always sort of be a hybrid of champions, skins and now relaunches as being integral parts of content packages.

I understand though. Champions are the biggest hype potential in terms of content, and can really have amazing promotional content, community discussion, and general excitement surround their build up and release. The champion release is still our biggest bang I feel. It feels like something huge is being added to the game, which it is.

For me personally, I miss some of the old days of slightly faster cadence, but I trust that the guys over on the Champion Team know what's up and are fully aware of what they're goals and deliverables are, and how fast those things should be put out.

Sir ArmaMalumJul 10, 20143 votes

Hey there! Suddenly me being up at 3:00am EST is worth it, lol. Saw you in RvC btw, rocking that Leona.

Anyway, Galio. Any chance he's getting looked at? While I personally am interested in his gameplay I know he's also a bit dated visually. Anyone on the red side taken an interest in him yet?

Thanks for the discussion!

EpenguJul 10, 20143 votes

Hi parrot! Any word on how the discussion regarding yordles is going? Specifically, Tristana - since she seems like a concept that could be taken further with a redesign and is seeing more play now. Right now she's just small creature with big gun - but having her be even more spunky, playing up the unhinged part of her - since that seems to be a yordle theme. Like a lawful good Jinx, maybe?

PtarlorrJul 10, 20142 votes

I'd like to see a Lissandra-ish lead up to a new yordle champ if the yordle race is getting a VU. As for Tristana, I just wanna see her look like the same species as Rumble, Ziggs, etc. Maybe Quinn can go scout out Bandle City and give us some information.

ResufficateJul 10, 20143 votes

What about the rock? He got a nice splash but he's quite ugly if I do say so myself :x Malphite

Also when are we getting the new WW? :D Warwick

Zac (Still waiting on Pool Party Zac) Zac

Gentleman GastonJul 10, 20143 votes

Not to long ago I wrote a piece on **Ezreal **(http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/FGp9u6s1-character-analysis-ezreal-and-indiana-jones), talking about how the character could be more thematically appropriate.

As it stands now Ezreal does not really fill the fantasy of the explorer and his only defining trait is arrogance, making him a kind of disagreeable character to play. Considering how well liked the character is and how often played, I think he's in a good place for a low risk/high reward VU; something along the lines of Garen. Perhaps a few model tweeks and texture clean up. The guy could also use a revamped dialogue, because it's really lacking as is.

I see Ezreal as a young, talented, but egotistical young Indiana Jones; think River Pheonix's portrayal in Indiana Jones: The Last Crusade. While I think his kit is fine for the most part, everything else about him screams...outdated. I'm sure he's very low on the list, but he's high on mine. Ezreal

5G8Nri0B54Jul 10, 20142 votes

When you do Caitlyn's VU, have you considered adding rockets or springs to her Yordle Snaptraps so it wouldn't look so bad when Tristana, Corki, or Kha'zix gets caught on them mid-jump/flight? For all it's "trying not to confuse newbies" thing Riot has done, you have to admit it's helluva jarring that Tristana/Corki/Kha/anyone else who jumps still gets hit by traps on the ground

Also, is there any plan on making Cho'gath's Rupture make more sense? Of all the abilities in League, Cho's Rupture is by far the most disconnected. His Battlecast, fortunately, attempts to make his Rupture make sense by blasting the ground. But the current one summons magical spikes by stomping the ground.

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 10, 20142 votes

Let me ask about a champion who VERY MUCH needs a VU but seems to be rarely spoken of:

DrMundo

His run is more of a waddle, his animations are non-existant (Like he doesn't even really do anything. All of his spells are just sound-bits), his body and look is iconic but not really that well portrayed and to top it all off his tongue is blue in his splash but it's STILL PINK IN GAME.

So my question is what you guys have planned for the Madman of Zaun. He's a super iconic character and definitely a fan favorite. I just hope you guys have some cool, amazing work in store for him. Anything you can spill or talk about?

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20147 votes

Welp, I think he's just a straight up fidelity update. I don't think he's slated for any time too soon, but at least I don't think there's a lot of challenge in just.. Mundo'ing up Mundo. Yeah, there's just a lot of technical stuff I'd love to do with him. Bring him up to the goofy brute that he should be.

Sneak DogJul 10, 20142 votes

I always disliked how Mundo is portrayed as an incredibely stupid hulk in the game but he is still a doctor performing complicated experiments on himself in the lore. I'd like to see this mixed a bit more where he still has moments of insight in between the effects of the drugs he uses on the fields of justice.

About the flat view: I found it a bit tricky to see who people were responding to in nested view and I can't up/downvote.

CaptainWednesdayJul 10, 20142 votes

It is a bit odd, isn't it? Maybe all those experiments made him a giant goofball brute?

MoobeatJul 10, 20142 votes

Goalkeeper Maokai and Superfan Gragas both have a nice, up to date sort of look for the two older champions. Any thoughts on moving that kinda thing into a texture update?

TachiJul 10, 20142 votes

Hey parrot man, you recently posted about Cho'Gath's VU having evolving models and such, and I was curious if you were going to try it out on any others first. I ask this because I know Zenon mention wanting Warwick to kind of become more monstrous as he builds his stacks of his eternal thirst.

I'm not sure if you've done any concepts or anything, but since you mentioned it, I was wondering if you were going to try it out with Warwick. It's something I'd love to see, personally, a vicious werewolf only getting bigger and bulkier or more feral with his growing blood lust.

Any insight? I know that the Warwick rework isn't coming for a while yet, but I'd love to hear if you've drawn up any ideas.

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20143 votes

Hey parrot man, you recently posted about Cho'Gath's VU having evolving models and such, and I was curious if you were going to try it out on any others first. I ask this because I know Zenon mention wanting Warwick to kind of become more monstrous as he builds his stacks of his eternal thirst. I'm not sure if you've done any concepts or anything, but since you mentioned it, I was wondering if you were going to try it out with Warwick. It's something I'd love to see, personally, a vicious werewolf only getting bigger and bulkier or more feral with his growing blood lust. Any insight? I know that the Warwick rework isn't coming for a while yet, but I'd love to hear if you've drawn up any ideas.

Well, we haven't really even started concepting Cho, but he'll have some pre-production work started on him soon. I still take the stance that I want him to be like a Kaiju of the Void. Whatever it entails to get that I'm up for! We have to scope it out though. That's a big team discussion.

TachiJul 10, 20141 votes

Er.. I was asking more aabout Warwick. I only referenced Cho for the point of my actual question.

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20144 votes

Er.. I was asking more aabout Warwick. I only referenced Cho for the point of my actual question.

Ah I see. I'm not sure how much we'll do with scaling or model changing in his normal state, though I'd like to see at least some body change. That's just my opinion though! We haven't yet full explored the ideas.

TachiJul 10, 20143 votes

But some discussion has gone on, yes? Anything you can share? I know Warwick is rather straight-forward, but he's the VU I've been waiting for over all others.

RICËJul 10, 20142 votes

Honestly I've always had an issue with Pantheon . His stock character model just looks too cartoony in general. Yes League is fairly cartoony regardless, but... His is just eh. Maybe if he had a visual update somehow

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20147 votes

He's sorta just a dude from 300 at this point. I'd really like to find a way to tie him more thematically into Targon. That'll take some exploration though.

GarentheonJul 10, 20142 votes

Will Pantheon get the same love and affection you have for Leona & Diana?

Talking about VU if its not clear...

But I can understand if not. Those champs were your babies. You were part of their development. Plus they're females and Pantheon's not. But I was just wondering because he is from Mt. Targon and you're a big advocate of that. Plus he's an armored champ with prime potential for you to go HAM on.

Do you think a traditional skin would be a good idea for him? I think so for the fact that you can go balls deep and get real creative and original with him. You can really explore what a true Rakkor would look like, actually an elite one at that. You can make him look sooo epic without being held back by the 300/Spartan/Greek trope that some fans are attached to because he'll have a traditional skin. Just think about it like this... lets say he was never released until 2014, with what you guys have at your disposal now and no previous trope to hold you back, imagine how he'd look today.

I'm actually not a fan of the old trope because I feel he can be so much more and i don't like exposed toes on an armored champion. But I do understand and respect that there are fans that do and still like that. With a traditional skin, I feel everybody can be satisfied. Its a win win, people won't get upset and will keep the old Panth they're attached to, while also getting an original armored badass , and IronStylus can have a lot of fun exploring and expressing a true Rakkor warrior.

IronStylus I would love your opinion

EDIT: Poured my heart and soul into this, hope you wouldn't mind taking a look

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/fancreations/7J3dZkid-ironstylus-and-relaunch-team-pantheon-vu-with-art

RiotIronStylusJul 12, 20142 votes

Will Pantheon get the same love and affection you have for Leona & Diana?

Talking about VU if its not clear...

But I can understand if not. Those champs were your babies. You were part of their development. Plus they're females and Pantheon's not. But I was just wondering because he is from Mt. Targon and you're a big advocate of that. Plus he's an armored champ with prime potential for you to go HAM on.

Do you think a traditional skin would be a good idea for him? I think so for the fact that you can go balls deep and get real creative and original with him. You can really explore what a true Rakkor would look like, actually an elite one at that. You can make him look sooo epic without being held back by the 300/Spartan/Greek trope that some fans are attached to because he'll have a traditional skin. Just think about it like this... lets say he was never released until 2014, with what you guys have at your disposal now and no previous trope to hold you back, imagine how he'd look today.

I'm actually not a fan of the old trope because I feel he can be so much more and i don't like exposed toes on an armored champion. But I do understand and respect that there are fans that do and still like that. With a traditional skin, I feel everybody can be satisfied. Its a win win, people won't get upset and will keep the old Panth they're attached to, while also getting an original armored badass , and IronStylus can have a lot of fun exploring and expressing a true Rakkor warrior.

IronStylus I would love your opinion

EDIT: Poured my heart and soul into this, hope you wouldn't mind taking a look

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/fancreations/7J3dZkid-ironstylus-and-relaunch-team-pantheon-vu-with-art

Doing some quoting here to see how this system is working in the flat view.

The dude is quite literally a design right out of traditional Spartan mythos. So yeah, I think at some point we'll need a VU that takes his thematics and solidifies them. However, I'm not sure where that would be right now. A VU or thematic cohesion pass on Pantheon might need some more deep diving on Targon itself. Should he fit into the Leona/Diana storyline? I think so. I think it's an interesting opportunity to make him a pivotal character, not just some warrior dude with nothing terribly exceptional about him. However, I'm not sure what he represents in that story space of Targon nor what would really set him apart that would immediately say "oh snap, this guy is different and interesting."

Story aside, I think it might be interesting to do some foundation building on what the Rakkor are, and what they look like. We might need to do some groundwork to flesh out the society of the mountain, or what's on the mountain, to then extrapolate Pantheon's appearance from. There's a lot of different ways to approach him, right now I'm not sure which direction is a good one. Certainly open to suggestions.

I know that eventually he'll get a pass, my hope is that we can build further on the Moon/Sun story thing and give him a unique space visually and thematically,

Samuel L JaxxJul 14, 20141 votes

I think some classical thematics should still be there, spartan inspired but not necessarily ripped right out from it.

I mean Kratos is obviously inspired by myth, but he looks a thing all on his own too.

"Come and get some!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe

Majokko LuxJul 10, 20142 votes

Is there a TU list? Similar to what you have for champion VUs, or are TUs mostly independent side projects still?

Also anything on Lux, Miss Fortune or Irelia?

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20143 votes

Not really a list per se, more of just a general understanding that a lot of our textures need balancing. Right now there's no one committed to doing TU's 100%, my hope though would at some point to have a concentrated effort to adjust those textures.

Raid Boss MordeJul 10, 20142 votes

Please Mr. Parrot sir, tell me there is a Mordekaiser VU in the near future. He's my favorite champion, but his model just looks so outdated compared to the most recent champions. The pizza feet... THE PIZZA FEET!

Mordekaiser item 3070

HVNJul 10, 20142 votes

cough Galio's color scheme cough. Oh and also taric's pizza feet are pretty awful for season 4 standards.

HellioningJul 10, 20142 votes

Any love for the saddest mummy coming anytime soon? I'm kinda concerned you guys are gonna try and make him HARDCORE AND EDGY like the recent skin releases or Karthus...

FatedTitanJul 10, 20142 votes

What about Gangplank? We were told that he was "HOT" on the list back in February. Any updates on our favorite pirate?

PtarlorrJul 10, 20142 votes

I'm personally looking forward to a Singed VU(relaunch?), but he doesn't seem to be on Riot's priority list. He does feel really unique and sorta-fleshed out, just....old-looking. I'd like to see him go even more mad, maybe try and search for a cure for Warwick, or maybe Viktor can help fix up his body with some upgrades so he looks more cohesive with a probable Urgot VU. So many possibilities!

GarentheonJul 10, 20142 votes

I'm digging the brainstorming

SilverclawJul 11, 20142 votes

Oops, didn't know this thread existed. I'd like a discussion on Shen , because feel like there's so much potential to bring Shen to his theme of 'protective, stealthy (silent?) ninja' that was missed.

Rito please.

RaldoronJul 10, 20141 votes

In regards to champion update, and I'm sure this is a very commonly asked question, but...Kassadin is probably the most notorious champion in the game. With a pick or ban rate of nearly 100% for multiple seasons in LCS and probably longer for us normies in ranked, Kassadin is one of the most prominent of champions. Why have we not seen a visual update for such an old model yet? Kassadin's model is truly aged, moreso than many others (but not as much as some e.g. Pantheon). When will it be time for League's anti-mage to truly have his time in the sun?

p.s. time in the sun, iron solari kassadin confirmed illerminaty

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20142 votes

In regards to champion update, and I'm sure this is a very commonly asked question, but...Kassadin is probably the most notorious champion in the game. With a pick or ban rate of nearly 100% for multiple seasons in LCS and probably longer for us normies in ranked, Kassadin is one of the most prominent of champions. Why have we not seen a visual update for such an old model yet? Kassadin's model is truly aged, moreso than many others (but not as much as some e.g. Pantheon). When will it be time for League's anti-mage to truly have his time in the sun? p.s. time in the sun, iron solari kassadin confirmed illerminaty

Hmm.. quoting in this thing is a bit awkward, gunna talk to the team about that.

Yeah, there's a lot of discussion around Kassadin. For one, we could sorta just plug a new model onto him, but.. is that enough? Technically we're not really happy with where he's at in a number of places, especially animation. So the discussion is centered around scope. Since he floats it's sort of a unique situation. It'd be REALLY nice to have a full fledged VU of him, but, is that too large of a production? Lots of questions being asked. That's sort of what's making up the discussion.

GarentheonJul 10, 20143 votes

"For one, we could sorta just plug a new model onto him, but.. is that enough?"

Hell no its not enough. You guys are so talented. Please don't ever settle. Please continue to give every VU your all

"It'd be REALLY nice to have a full fledged VU of him, but, is that too large of a production?"

Hell no its not too large. Go big or go home, I always say. He has potential be one of the coolest looking champs in the game (with a new design and animations). Ive actually been eagerly awaiting how epic and badass you guys are going to make him

TiropatJul 10, 20141 votes

The only observation I have is I can't make a reply to the OP when its in flat mode. other than that it looks great.

RiotIronStylusJul 10, 20142 votes

The only observation I have is I can't make a reply to the OP when its in flat mode. other than that it looks great.

Like that? ^

Yeah, I'm trying to get comfy with it too. Right now, at least if I'm hearing you, it's not as easy to quote or reference what you're replying to, right?

gulgolet2000Jul 14, 20141 votes

There are some old champs nobody mentioned at all yet or just were mentioned so little..

Galio Galio could get some love, at least once he gets his GU. But still, what is your opinion about him?

Amumu Amumu was mentioned once but I wanna know if there's a direction for him? Will he stay a yordle, or be human boy again?

Fiddlesticks Nobody spoke of our favorite scarecrow yet. Remember that he's been here since the Alpha stages if the game. Anything about him?

Teemo Teemo, along with Fiddles, is an Alpha stage champ that hasn't been mentioned at all yet. I think that he has some nice potential for a VU so he have at least 3 or 5 different Shrooms models.

Also....

Anivia I know, I know, she already got a TU, but does this mean she's still on the list? Unlike Rammus, her spell effects are much more noticeable, her model is pretty bad and her animations as well, so I think she'll benefit from a VU.. What do you think, IronStylus?

Zana LyranderJul 14, 20141 votes

Well I don't know if anyone has already asked this since the "Show More" button is acting a bit finicky, but any chance of a progress update on my boy Taric ? He's been "high priority" for a long time now, but recently I've heard nothing but silence about his VU. It's such a shame, he's supposed to be this incredibly handsome guy according to his lore, yet his model is so boxy and ugly... Hate to say it, but his current appearance does not do justice to the fabulous man that is Taric.

Joe Shmo 101Jul 14, 20141 votes

Is there any chance Chogath Cho'Gath will be getting a VU in the next year? I just got done with my first convention ever, and I had so much fun that I've decided to cosplay as Battlecast Prime Cho'Gath. Since it's going to be a complex build to pull off, I'd prefer to know if his look with that skin has a chance to change in a major way during the next 365 days.

Also, my friends Leona Leona and Nautilus say hi! (And Soraka and Vlad probably would too, but we didn't end up hanging out with them too much after that) http://imgur.com/rWIuj1a