"I didn't see that VU coming." or Nobody Expects the ChampUP Inquisition!

RiotIronStylus·11/21/2014, 6:59:38 AM·69 votes·91,967 views

Hi.

How's it going?

Good. Good. Glad to hear it.

Anyway, we all know the deal with certain visual updates, mainly of the larger scale variety. The Sivir 's, the Twitch 's, the Garen 's. Also, the biggun's like Sion .

Recently you may have noticed some more "smaller scale" VU's that the ChampUP team has been doing. Renekton, Singed and most recently Maokai .

Those last two types of projects are of interest because we didn't used to do them, but recently we've dug around and noticed that we can take some older champions that have relatively healthy rigs but replace models and even tighten/add animations. That's resulted in some "MTU's" which incorporate model and texture updates. While in the past we sort of worried that we'd be unable to keep up the pace that ChampUP wanted to burn at, we noticed a lot of opportunities in areas where we can get a lot of bang for the buck in, primarilly, the model/animation/VFX department without having to scrap an entire character.

SO! Onto my my questions.. Of course there's the BIG wish list. The VU's (or Gameplay & Visual Updates) that we're all frothing at the mouth to see someday. Champions like: Evelynn , Taric , Urgot , etc.

But with the prospect of MTU's and other "low scope" projects (I say that in quotes because that term is relative) we have some new options.

If you had to pick champions you'd like to see updated models with some possible animation/VFX/etc changes, who would it be?

Who do you think is in a place that could use some model love?

Who do you think has a solid design but wouldn't mind seeing a higher fidelity version of, or perhaps an updated look that incorporates some new design elements but stays true to the spirit of the champion?

Who's in a good spot thematically but could use some updating to match either their faction, region, allegiances, League's evolving style, whatever?

Do you think Leona could use some love? (say yes)

Just curious to see what you think. We have some ideas, we see some opportunities, but I'd love some input.

CLARIFICATION! This stuff has *nothing *to do with gameplay.

And as always with this sorta stuff..

732 Comments

Yoella11/21/2014, 7:46:11 AM129 votes

Teemo needs some animation fixes, you can't even see him rise up from Hell at spawn.

Starlighte11/21/2014, 7:20:15 AM45 votes

Lux and Morgana both need it pretty badly. Lux needs some minor tweaks on her animations, nothing fairly serious or obvious and overall an improved look. I mean, with her updated splash, her actual in-game model is fairly obviously different.

Morgana on the other hand, I don't know where to begin. She needs help, but I am desperately afraid to offer her up because I don't have 100% confidence in her aesthetics remaining as she is. Aesthetically and lore-wise, Morgana is very solid imo. I don't want to see her get some arbitrary clothing or removal of clothing just because it becomes easier to model or is "more appropriate." To be honest, fuck that noise. She has an established aesthetic, and though her model is in desperate need of a massive overhaul (animations for skills, running, AA'ing, they're all awful) and her obvious model shortcomings (infamous in lacking legs) Morgana is one of the worst offenders of being heavily dated currently.

But again, IS as you and I have spoken on your original "If there was a Morgana VU, what would you want?" thread, I am concerned that she needs a lot of work but afraid that the work would go against the grain of who she is, and what her established aesthetic is.

Universal Boop11/21/2014, 7:12:56 AM39 votes

Malzahar need's a serious overhaul he just screams old and retired

ZORCH11/21/2014, 7:12:42 AM36 votes

Cho'Gath at the very least needs a TU

I just wanna om nom with a bit of style

Garentheon11/21/2014, 7:47:06 AM35 votes

MTU Shyvana Her updated splash made me realize she can look real cool with her current theme. Her flame particles need an update

Brand His variety in skins is lacking. He has opportunity to look cooler in model. Also could use a particle update on those flames

Janna She floats and isn't melee. I like that her face in the new splash is distinct and looks like no other female champion. Now her model needs to show that. (yes i know she is one of the first "VUs" to be releases)

Malzahar At first i didn't want admit he could use an MTU because I want cooler animations, interactions with Kassadin and others, and also his R to come out of his eyes instead of mouth (looks bad imo). But he is also a floater who doesn't really depend on his auto attack animations too much

MonkeyKing His model just does not do justice to the champion. Besides Underworld, all his models translate horribly from splash. He could look a lot better if they simplify the design on his base skin (its too busy), and fix his other skins

Galio Imo he could use some tweaks to make his look cooler. Plus his particles could use an update

Leona Her armor could use a pass in design

XinZhao His auto attack animations are on point actually, just needs new model base and to change his recolors into variety, needs solidified theme

I know you're probably asking more about MTU type work but... why not.... (not mentioning the obvious Alistar Chogath Corki Evelynn Mordekaiser Nunu Poppy Ryze Taric Warwick Zilean Urgot )

VU

Ezreal great potential for animations, VO, particles

Gragas He has no legs. his proportions are no bueno

Irelia Great potential for animations, solidified theme/direction, VO

JarvanIV At first I disliked his armor design, but after seeing his updated splash i see that it can not only work, but look friggin badass. Needs a VU because his auto attack animations are horrendous (that body-whack tho), and his idle stance is ridiculous

Jax Needs solidified theme, attire, and lore. Huge potential for animations ( can have like 3 animations for auto attacks, 3 for empowered attacks). Watching a Jax fight would be beautiful

Kassadin void blade could look so cool.great potential for animations, Needs a bit of a redesign imo, VO

Olaf This berserker needs to be taken to the limit. could be such a cool addition to Freljords lineup

Pantheon Needs a bit of a redesign, solidified look and theme, needs updated animations on auto attacks (Azir's soldier's attacks look better than this guys'), needs better animations on abilities ( that heartseeker strike... he flicks his wrist -__-)

Swain My boy has much potential to be one of the coolest look Noxians

Udyr SGU and his new splash show that Udyr has much potential

Vladimir Much potential in theme, needs upgraded particles model, and animations

9Q1IMGTQP311/21/2014, 1:22:17 PM32 votes

I know that im a little late to the party but I'd like to voice my opinion about something really important for me:

"I think we have opportunities to do an MTU on him." - IronStylus about Kassadin source:

For me it's sad to see that Riot gave up on Kassadin, that may come of harsh but its not like that you guys ever showed any interest (gameplay and visually) in him whatsoever, it essentially means that Kassadin, a champion with 10 lines, with one making no sense (13 if we including laughing) and one of the most outdated models in this game that was supposed to be "high priority" for ages now is arguebly getting treated worse than he deserves because you people simply dont find the time or the will to work on him (and other champions, ie Evelynn who is still in Ideationphase after all this time and talk) and instead come up with a "MTU" simply because "he had his particles slightly updated in the past" - if that's really the deciding factor in the question of VUing or not id have to question the decision to fully VU certain other champions in the past.

Kassadin hasnt got a skin almost for 4 years, he doesnt have a single decent skin and over the past years we've been told that he is indeed a VU candidate. I've been waiting patiently, trusting, and looking forward to his VU, in the end, only to receive the statement above.

Please, look at this champion and reconsider the decision you just did. I've been waiting for a long time and im willing to wait for another 2 years if my favorite champion would receive the treatment he badly needs and deserves.

A uncomfortable fan. item 3070

Kòókie11/21/2014, 7:44:17 AM30 votes

I'm sad that no one has mentioned Fiddlesticks yet. I think that Fiddlesticks is in a good place regarding design, model, etc., but he's just a bit outdated. His newer skins are really nice, however his default one (And probably a few older one's, Spectral especially.) need some love.

I think his theme is very obvious and I love it. A scarecrow with a scythe is epic and definitely screams "Harbinger of Doom", but with League evolving in style and technology I think there's a lot more that can be done with his looks and his animations. His default animations are pretty lack-luster at best. I mean his 'W' is this weird green line and his 'E' is just a black spot followed by a purple trail. There's a lot of potential here and I'm sure you guys can come up with some amazing, but not so heavy improvements.

5G8Nri0B5411/21/2014, 7:20:46 AM24 votes

My initial instinct is to suggest MissFortune due to her freakish plastic abomination she calls her hair. But then...I'm afraid what a VU would do for the "rest" of her if you know what I mean. Don't want another Sejuani to happen.

So instead, my vote goes to either Lux whose dashing running animation is seriously jarring with how slow she actually moves, Chogath , who's Q needs to be much more cohesive (can you see an issue with the fact that he stomps the ground to summon magical disconnected spikes from the ground? Said spikes that punches the enemy into the air rather than impaling them?), OR..................

............Corki. Why? Because I can't stand how he is ** flying-machine champion who chooses to simply hover in the ground so that melee units can hit him.** Make Corki into some sort of Yordle go-kart or something. Some kind of mini-tank? A cute little Yordle Motorcycle? ANYTHING but having him fly a helicopter and literally do nothing to take advantage of the fact that he's in a flying machine.

Tank champions such as Malphite, DrMundo , and Rammus simply needs to have their models scaled up so that they aren't just "giant midgets"

Tachi11/21/2014, 7:04:54 AM23 votes

Warwick always has and always will be my number one. It may be bias, but I want to see him on par with Rengar very soon. With the jungle changes, it just feels like he should look like the king he is right now.

Warwick

CupcakeTrap11/21/2014, 8:10:58 AM22 votes

Veigar Take a little* time to give Veigar a minor texture update if you wish, but know that if the tables were turned, he would show you no mercy.

I don't think he's in particular need of attention, but…Veigar with a tail or kitty ears? Might be pretty cute. I mean ferocious and evil.

(More seriously: not sure whether that would be a good idea or a bad idea. My biggest dread is that Veigar will get reworked into an angry misshapen old midget instead of an angry fuzzball. I like the "yordles as hamsters" idea much more than the "yordles as dwarves" approach seen in the old Heimerdinger and Corki artwork. But as for going the other direction and making him obviously a yordle…I don't know. I think it's important that he's hiding his kitty-ness with his menacing attire.)

*: Possible short joke.

DoubLL11/21/2014, 7:11:02 AM20 votes

I think Lux is a champion that has a very good design that I and many other people love, but her animations specifically look kind of outdated and clunky. Her skills look old school but that's fine with me, even though some may argue that they want them to be more "flashy", but it's her walking/running animation that feels stiff to me, and then there are also other small issues, like her staff vibrating like mad on the floor when she dances.

Again, please don't hit her with a full on rework (I think Lux players have made that clear in the past :D) but some subtle updates would be appreciated.

EDIT: I agree with Hylian Sora (NA) above on some parts, but definitely not all. "she needs to be shown as an innovator in the magic arts" is something I support heavily, but I do think that she should not be talking about herself as a "demacian" to much, to not take away from her as a character too much.

Lyr11/21/2014, 11:04:18 AM20 votes

Caitlyn Vladimir Tristana Shyvana Fiddlesticks Lux Teemo XinZhao Shaco

These are all champions that I believe fully suit your criteria! I'd be very happy to see the team touch them up, especially tristana and lux :)

DwarvenGiant11/21/2014, 7:33:31 AM14 votes

I think that Shyv and Jarvan could get a MTU. Maybe even Kog'Maw. I mean, their rig and animations seem fine, really, but they could look so much better and more like their new splashes.

As for full VUs, I really think that Fiddle, Kennen, Ezreal and Blitz could use a VU. Their animations look really bad.. Plus, they could use new and awesome VFX.

What do you think?

gºblin11/21/2014, 7:37:14 AM13 votes

I feel that Morgana is in need of some love. With Victorious Morgana this is most evident, she is just way too skinny, and her dress isn't rounded as it should be or it's not very flowy as it is in ghost bride, where the dress looks like a dress. Morgana has a very angular and sharp outfit and it doesn't look like a dress but more of a tent!

The Storm Dragon11/21/2014, 7:07:11 AM13 votes

Miss Fortune or Irelia? That hair doe.

BurqaGirl6911/21/2014, 6:13:05 PM13 votes
  1. For the love of not-white jesus, don't make Taric a pasty faced white boi. He's got an arabic name and white paladins are boring as fuck anyways. I'd also vouch to not make him too serious either. Keep his flair but don't go overboard.

  2. Good MTU candidates IMO: Lux should have more Demacian stuff, less boob-plate. Better animations

MissFortune could use more bilgewater, less girl-in-sexy-pirate-costume. (sexy still makes sense, but give her some dirty pirate theme stuff so it seems like she isn't imitating it and that's actually her culture. . . honestly her VO should have been more rough and pirate-like instead of sexy upper class woman). Also new vfx so she isn't shooting coco pops.

Malzahar should also be browner like Taric and just more pretty. Redo the vfx because they look like crap.

Kennen Akali Shen could all use updates and maybe solidify that they're a trio. The current symbol they share is just a squiggly that looks dumb and uninteresting.

XinZhao Vladimir Lulu could all keep a similar rig and be big wins. Lulu has a weird face that should be updated to be more like how trists will after her soon to come update (less football-head, more round and cute).

Gangplank could use a bit more touch ups. He did get a previous VU but could use some more work and also an update to his other skins that didn't get VU'd at all.

Anivia Rammus got TU's, but those should have been MTU's. Their animations also still look crappy. They could also use a splash and ability icon redo.

FizzTalonVayne Could def use some touch ups. Maybe a small scale MTU.

Yorick could use a full relaunch style thing. I know it's been talked about, but not recently.

Ashe has been discussed regarding freljording her up a bit. Her current theme is really blandly executed (bow looks boring and dress is plain). Maybe that's a good thing, or maybe not. I personally think she could have a new classic base which would basically just be a new skin replacing her base that looks more furry and cold-weather suited. That would mean the current base becomes traditional Ashe I guess. Also, freljord Ashe could be made more differentiated.

Leona I find her way too lanky. Her sword is massive and so is her shield, she should at least be post MTU Sona wide. She's like a size 2 and should be more a size 12 + but toned. Feminine is still fine, I actually love that she can be feminine and a badass protector tank, but stick thin is just weird.

Shíny11/21/2014, 7:14:21 AM12 votes

How does ChampUP feel about Malzahar ? Floaty void prophet thematic seems pretty solid to me but not many people talk about him so i'm not sure of the general opinion of malz. (btw soo excited he's finally getting a skin!) Other champs i'd love to see just a little updated are DrMundo and Nocturne (just something for that smoke tail! it bothers me sooo much, theres no rig just particles right?)

And of course the moon could always shine alittle brighter :D

Jamaree11/21/2014, 7:01:58 AM11 votes

I think Diana can use more love first, also, is chatot your favorite pokemon?

DrCyanide11/21/2014, 7:38:18 AM11 votes

Ezreal

When comparing his splash art to his in game model, you can safely tell the model "You belong in a museum". He has the potential to look so cool, but his model lets him down.

RiotRiot Nitsuabo11/22/2014, 3:34:40 AM9 votes

What's that you say? Send me a long email about Galio ?

Rammus

Conncept11/21/2014, 9:15:19 AM9 votes

Have to ask this as there have already been several threads about it before Maokai's rework release and all of them were seemingly ignored by the development team. And yes it does concern reworks in general, as I for one am worried about skin aesthetics being changed on future champs in the name of visual upgrades. But as an example I will specifically address Moakai's.

How can you guys completely change one skins aesthetic years after it is produced? How, especially, can you do so without clear theme and conclusive research in to the real world inspirations of the skin? It is one thing with the base model, as sometimes it mismatches its own lore or kit such as with Sion, but skins are bought specifically for aesthetic purposes. So how on earth can this be justified?

If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm talking about Totemic Maokai. The original skin was clearly based on totems from the northwest of Canada and Alaska, where I'm from, loved this skin for that and you guys for making it. Subcultures like that, especially within the United States, never get any attention in favor of larger more mediacentric ones. Now even I can admit the skin had its flaws, for example the smaller details which didn't even read at any level of zoom let alone while actively playing. And that, too obscure of, or an unfitting reference can completley justify larger scale changes. But no effort whatsoever was made to preserve the skins original aesthetics or theme, both were thrown out in complete disregard for its real world connections and those players who bought it for that those connections, its current aesthetics, and its theme.

And to only worsen the situation, rather than choose another clear theme in hopes that it would still at least have a second hand attachment to the original; making it based on the tiki totems of the pacific islands for example, or the totems of the eastern united states tribes, or the southwestern 'kachina' style totems; we got a ridiculously unclear mix of attributes which doesn't even accurately read as literally or even stylistically totemic anywhere but the facearm and the sapling. I honestly thought, as well as many others, upon seeing it for the first time that it was either a harlequin maokai or a kabuki theatre maokai, but not until I was TOLD so did I imagine that could possibly be the redesign of totemic Maokai.

This skin was not properly researched, made, or implemented; and many would appreciate some revisions to it.

I don't know who this should be written to, I know you are principally an illustrator and have no idea what hand you have in skin design. But please see to it that at the very least someone who has a say in these releases sees this request.

Thank-you.

Uberphish11/21/2014, 7:07:48 AM9 votes

Veigar. Now that Final Boss is here, you have a few new animations to work from, but the poor little guy could definitely use a little bit more evil on the rest of his skins, don't you think?

EDIT: To go into a bit more detail, I like that he's sort of the flip-side of Teemo. Teemo is described in his lore to almost be a sociopath when alone, abandoning the normal Yordle need for companionship and becoming remorseless and emotionally isolated.

Veigar, on the other hand, was maliciously kept away from others, going mad. It's a fun hook and it makes perfect sense when you look at Lulu, Ziggs, and Heimer. They all seem to have gone a bit mad in their own ways. Veigar's way just happens to be megalomania.

As for designs. I'm on the fence about adding ears or not adding ears, but I definitely think his proportions could use a touch-up.

The giant, twitchy glove is a must, of course :P

Lüc11/22/2014, 12:01:09 PM8 votes

The Demacians: JarvanIV Lux Vayne Shyvana Quinn Fiora XinZhao Galio

I've always thought that the Noble Houses were an interesting component of the Demacian government. While I agree that overall Demacia represents justice, order, and military might, I think showcasing "House" distinctions could give the champions some interesting flavor unique to Demacian infrastructure.

Jarvan: Could really benefit from a VU. His current model is a little "noisy" and an update could really make him epic. As a Lightshield I think he should look like a royal (a warrior, but still a royal), nothing gaudy, but rather proud to show his rank.

Key elements: 1. The Lance 2. Dragonslayer/Beastslayer - elements of his beastslaying prowess should remain, but not overly muddle his armor - use of "scale-mail" would be really cool 3. Patriot/Leader - He needs to have a commanding presence. A vibe of a leader that stands at the forefront of battle.

Lux: While I agree that she should look "more Demacian" I think it would be better to ere away from the military aspect of it and more toward the "paragon of society" aspect of Demacia. So I think she could use a VU over a texture update. As a Crownguard I think some armor is appropriate, just less. The Crownguard name kind of implies that they're a Noble House devoted to the protection of the royal house/cause and thus Garen remains the "sword" and Lux could embody the "shield" (albeit a magical one) and in another sense Garen the "Might" and Lux the "Magic".

Key elements: 1. Light Mage - I think the magical side to the character should shine through, perhaps using the Demacian symbol as a glyph or rune. She should represent what a Demacian mage would like, rather than a Demacian soldier. I've always felt that if anyone were to go to Hogwarts it would be Lux. 2. Young Noble Girl - There should be "high class" element to her attire. Not sexy, but classy. Agree that the skin tight body suit should go. I also would like some armor to remain maybe remove the boobplate for a dress/short jacket/corset/skirt/tabard something or other combo and move the armor pieces to gauntlets and greaves.

Scampy11/21/2014, 7:38:13 AM8 votes

I really like Leona's base skin, but it can always be better. She's golden yes, but there's room for the Radiant Dawn to be more radiant. She's super pretty but could stand to have the golds be brighter/actually shimmer or something sexy like that.

I've always seen her and Diana as being drawn like a Disney princess. Not overly sexy, but goddamn is she gorgeous. On another note, her whole model just screams valiant warrior--except for the heels. C'mon with that.

Vythanar11/21/2014, 7:17:16 AM8 votes

Here are some ones that I, personally, feel really need some kind of love:

  • Olaf
  • Ezreal (the clipping ;-;)
  • Kassadin
  • Mordekaiser (I feel like he could be SO much cooler)
  • Rammus
  • Warwick

There's a lot of champions I wouldn't object to getting fidelity tweaks. I feel like most everyone that hasn't gotten a VU recently or is newer could use some kind of sprucing up. Some have kind of scary faces (e.g. Wukong, but I'm biased because I main him), though that doesn't matter too much in the grander scheme of things because you hardly ever see it.

I do feel that Cait could use a slight redesign, but of course you know about that and it's a down-the-road kind of thing.

adding 100x emphasis on olaf because even though I don't play him he's one of the biggest eyesores in the game (imo, of course) and I think he often gets overlooked.

Electro52211/21/2014, 8:55:24 AM5 votes

What aboutMordekaiser Mordekiaser? I believe he is one of two champs left in the game with pizza feet (the other being Taric Taric).

I remember seeing somewhere on the boards about someone talking about Morde, and the possible directions they could take him.

In all honesty, being a VERY old champ, he is still absolutely badass. Do you think there is anyway of only strengthening that fact?

Mansana11/21/2014, 8:14:37 AM3 votes

Who do you think has a solid design but wouldn't mind seeing a higher fidelity version of, or perhaps an updated look that incorporates some new design elements but stays true to the spirit of the champion?

Probably Swain. Very debatable especially with the request of making Tyrant his base skin.

Who do you think is in a place that could use some model love?

Kassadin I think he deserves something for somehow always coming back to his solo-que throne time and time again. As of now, he probably won't come back to claim his crown for a long time. He's probably one of the most reworked champs gameplay wise with so many changes. I would not mind waiting if a rito employee has plans for him to coincide another GU with a VU/ Otherwise, I think he's suffered enough slaps across the face. How is he supposed to rift the new rift looking like that.

Do you think Leona could use some love?

I'll say yes only if you think Diana needs some love.