@Riot - Bring back Singed!

Mad Hit Monkey·Jul 21, 2014·5 votes·1,122 views

So I've played since season 2, he's the first champion I've really mastered, and everything about his kit pleases me. But with the way the metagame has been changing, and especially after the changes to his ult back in Season 3, it's been kind of hard to justify taking my main mad chemist into the top lane.

I posed the question on Reddit asking if there was room in the current top lane Meta for Singed, and one of the comments noted that while he can still wreck the lane, the problem is a matter of him simply being old and his kit on needing some serious love.

@Riot, It might very well be time to look into doing something to modernize his kit. Not rework, just make it better suited for the current game.

RITO PLZ

10 Comments

The Yetii RiderJul 21, 20144 votes

The problem with Singed is that Riot has severely weakened his team fighting ability by removing his Tenacity from his Insanity Potion, but they gave him nothing to compensate. Riot recently stated they want to improve top laners team fighting abilities but with Singed your best course of action now is literally just split push all day. Singed deals damage but if he builds damage or penetration he is less tanky, and he needs the tenacity if he's going to team fight which means he can't pick up Swiftness boots and do his job properly.

The easiest way Riot could fix this would be to allow Singed's Insanity Potion to grant him the ability to ignore unit collision. If Singed could run through enemies, his team fighting would be an unstoppable mess of him just circling through the front and back line occasionally flinging someone around, taking all their damage so his team could pop in and help.

Oh, and Riot really needs to fix Crystalline Flask as well. Every champion who wants it has abilities that cost over 60 mana, making it really really not worth the trouble.

MakersFJul 22, 20141 votes

I think singed is almost fine. I'd add to his ulti a 50% reduction on slows (not all CCs) and give him MR per level. Going through units looks cool too. That should be just fine to make him a good pick in a bit more situations. And the passive, while looking cool, is kind of bad in reality: you have to trade the first 30 min of the game if you want to build RoA (the best item to exploit it i think) or Tear. If you want to be relevant mid game, you need to rush Rylais, boots, mask, defence item. Building Rylais 3k gold later makes you a lot less relevant in the game. So: the optimal build path -> no use of the passive. Suboptimal build -> a little use of the passive. Which actually normally is around 300/400hp.

The percentage increment in stats is SOOOOOO bad: this means that we need to build tanky to be tanky, while now even only with RoA and Rylais we still have good resistances and regens.

Hoi Im TemmoJul 21, 20142 votes

Lets just Bump him to Lucian level - lets see....

Passive - double it. Q: Longer time, wider stream, more damage, extra damage to minions W: No cast time or mana cost. E: Less cooldown, lower cost R: Faster, Stronger, Better

oh, but he has a smaller attack radius now.....

Joking.

Yes, singed definitely needs updating. More seriously than above -

Passive: Needs the Ratio Increased. Q: Should be a wider stream. Really needs new coloring, it can be hard to see at some points on the map. Possibly better damage, especially in the early. W: Lower cost, shorter animation time. Was kinda serious above, just not to that extent. E: Small stun after the flip. Perhaps a scaling cooldown? R: Should really be a percentage buff to stats, not a flat one - but especially for movement speed. It's not fun to play singed, pop ulti, and watch Hecarim/Rammus run you down anyway.

NssheepsterJul 21, 20142 votes

Agreed. I love Singed, but when my enemy is right NEXT to my Q stream and doesn't get it, I get frustrated. And the percentage buff makes sense as well. He is basically the only champion who needs his enemy behind him. If he isn't faster than everyone else, he's useless. The only other champion anywhere near this is dragon form Shyvana, and as Shyvana is a mixed damage bruiser...It doesn't really affect her much. I agree also with the W cast time, but I think the cost is fine. And the stun after the E is unnecessary IMHO. While I would like the Tenacity, I can understand why they removed it. But he does need a serious buff. His flip range is short, as it should be, but if he gets kited away from flipping someone, he has no one behind him, and is useless. He needs something to compensate for that inherent weakness. Every good player knows "Don't chase the Singed!". He needs something to FORCE them to chase him, and he currently lacks that.

Hoi Im TemmoJul 22, 20141 votes

To be fair, he needs to be catchable. If not, hes too strong. But literally, I have had a Rammus come in and double my speed - thats just ridiculous.

GundayMondayJul 21, 20141 votes

I think he's fine. Works great against certain champs, does poorly against others. That's the kind of choice Riot wants to promote. If you have a champion that is good or bad in every single situation, then you have a balancing problem. But right now, Singed is a great pick for comps that want to kite, split push, or peel melees. No complaints from me.

PapaGreg21Jul 21, 20141 votes

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Hoi Im TemmoJul 22, 20141 votes

To be honest, if you have that much trouble playing against him, you probably just not used to the match up. Most Singed's can be easily bullied out of lane (compared to many other champs) and if its a proxy, a camping jungler = free kills.

The Yetii RiderJul 22, 20141 votes

Yes, but if the jungler camps then Singed is doing his job correctly, he's getting lots of free farm and objectives while the jungler is away from the team, essentially turning the game into a 4v4 where one team is split pushing and the other team has a super fed character who is never in team fights. It comes down to whether you think objectives or kills wins games, and Singed runs teleport while your jungler likely does not. Teleport is on a 240 second cooldown if you use it to go to your tower every time, less if you have the Distortion boot enchantment. And if Singed is proxying, he's going to build Swiftness boots because he doesn't need the tenacity to farm, so he'll just troll the jungler for as long as possible, building full tank with no damage because he's only trying to kill minions (trust me, I have proxied in the past and even though I'm horrible at it, I can definitely give my team the chance to roll face on the enemy team). A proxy Singed is basically, one lane is going to win super hard, one enemy player is going to get super fed, and if your team can 4v4 you win, otherwise you lose.

If Riot wants to avoid this, the single most horrible case of feast or famine in League history, they NEED to give Singed better team fighting ability.

Hoi Im TemmoJul 22, 20141 votes

Edit: Oops. I began responding before I read your whole post - looks like a lot of what I said was repeated :P Sorry about that, but I will still leave this here.

Oh I know exactly what you mean, I love proxy Singed :3

The problem I'm getting at however - Proxying is basically his only TRUE option. I would prefer to be able to lane against other people...but hes to squishy early, and not enough damage later. That said, it can still be a nightmare to play against, as you said, but it can come down to being very high risk - high reward for the singed player - having low consistency and difficult plays depending on the way the opposing team chooses to react.

In short, Singed is a rather non-interactive champion with low counterplay, and feast or famine play style, something Riot has specified they don't like in a champion. So basically, the changes i outlined on another post in this section are mostly targeted in allowing him to better play without this style.