Nemesis vs ARAM

Biff Manly·Feb 12, 2015·55 votes·3,677 views

I just played my fist game of the Nemesis Draft, and it got me thinking.

Why is ARAM limited to the champs you have available? Why not include the entire champ pool all the time? (except Yorick, cuz duh) I played Kennen, who I've never touched before, and had a blast. An enemy player got Anivia for the first time and said they really enjoyed her as well. That feeling of trying something new (and not getting blamed for a loss because you haven't mastered it yet) is a really great feeling, and something I miss out on in ARAM, where you have a 50% chance of getting a cham you're very familiar with.

What do you guys think? How would ARAM be with the full champ pool (sans Yorick) available?

52 Comments

WathehellsupdogFeb 12, 201510 votes

Agreed that all champions should be unlocked for ARAM. But, Nemesis doesn't have all champions unlocked. Instead it lets you use your champion pool and that of your allies Nemesis Draft. While yes, if someone has every champ unlocked then it wouldn't matter for your side picking the enemy champs but nonetheless all champs are not unlocked in Nemesis mode.

PartholonianFeb 13, 20155 votes

No, but you can get champs you personally don't own, which isn't possible in most modes including current ARAM.

AuraMaxFeb 12, 20155 votes

Yes that sounds like a great idea! They should also add the option to ban champions before the ARAM match begins, because its not fun facing teams with Nidalee, Lux, Vel'Koz, Ziggs or Xerath when your team is all melee/no poke.

NinjaFiferFeb 12, 20153 votes

Having bans in any all of the match types would be awesome. Aside from generally OP champs, Riot doesn't really balance the champions around anything other than Summoner's Rift. Man, AP Yi used to absolutely wreck face in ARAM, but was alright in Rift, so they didn't bother changing him for months. Being able to ban in any non-Rift match would help Riot not have to think about how a balance change would affect their auxiliary matches.

AbiwonKenabiFeb 12, 20155 votes

I disagree with the ban idea. Its annoying sometimes, but one of the draws of ARAM is that you can get any kind of comp at random. You could both get a super sustain poke comp, or one of you could get a super engage team and just smash their squishy poke. Its totally random how you deal with the team you're given.

FDruFeb 12, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I disagree with the ban idea. Its annoying sometimes, but one of the draws of ARAM is that you can get any kind of comp at random. You could both get a super sustain poke comp, or one of you could get a super engage team and just smash their squishy poke. Its totally random how you deal with the team you're given.

Bullshit. Smurfs run ARAM and every match is full of 60%+ win rate champions. It's hardly random anymore. It's almost literally just "which ranged AD carries and poke champs will be filling 8 out of 10 slots in this game?"

YouLostMeFeb 12, 20151 votes

It would be implemented concurrently with the all-champs-available mode. The accounts with only poke champs would not exist.

trexmixGFeb 12, 20152 votes

why do people care about aram wins and losses. the point of aram is just to have fun. bans would ruin that.

Hard PenetratorFeb 12, 20152 votes

Read FDru comment again and think.

Aram is hardly fun if you have 110 champions while your enemies have 5.

AbiwonKenabiFeb 13, 20151 votes

If I've ever run into people that have only 5 champions, I never realized it. I haven't experienced such bad luck that "ARAM smurfs" make an entire enemy comp annoying all game. No usually I get a bad comp every now and then and sometimes I am the one with the good comp: its completely random. Says it right in the title.

Hard PenetratorFeb 13, 20151 votes

Just for your information, I have actually got a mail from Riot half year ago with survey about current state of ARAM (I was HUGE fan of this mode at the beginning ) and my expectations. Questions made pretty obvious Riot knows Every-Single-Problem. Initial idea was to unblock all champions but last few questions were about how much IP/RP I would have paid for such option.

So our main problem is that Riot can make ARAM way better with ease but it may make ppl leave SR and go have fun without a need of spending ip/rp on champs.

It is a complicated and I don't want to bash Riot but saying things are fine is pretty far from truth.

AbiwonKenabiFeb 13, 20151 votes

I don't know, I've been playing ARAM since before it was an official mode and I've NEVER had this smurf problem. Same with all my friends. I'm not saying that means its not a problem, I'm just skeptical about how widespread it is.

Also what about all those people who own all the champions, thus giving them a reroll practically every game? Do those players just not matter? What about those people that wouldn't be confident with more than the champions they own? I play ARAM for fun, and the more champions I own, the more options I have in champ select. I just disagree with the people saying "it has no downsides" because it does.

FDruFeb 13, 20151 votes

{quoted} Also what about all those people who own all the champions, thus giving them a reroll practically every game? Do those players just not matter?

Of course they don't matter. If they did, then ARAM wouldn't be in the sad state it's in.

Rerolls are pointless when you have a 60% chance to get a mediocre champ.

Smurfs get rerolls every 3 matches? Oh well good thing they have an 85% chance to roll a fucking awesome champ so they hardly ever need to actually use said rerolls.

AbiwonKenabiFeb 13, 20151 votes

Dude, screw you. Every player should matter. I know sacrifices have to made sometimes and not every player can get exactly what they want, but that doesn't mean that player doesn't matter.

When Riot makes a decision, they need to look at who it will affect and whether its worth it. Changes need to happen sometimes, of course, but not without consideration of who will be affected, negatively or positively.

Killer X 12Feb 12, 20155 votes

When i see a yorick in aram he is usually the only competent person on his team lol. Also i'd take yorick for the Nemesis Draft, better than like...janna top.

I think ARAMs should be ALL champions for several reasons.

I won't see just ranged poke champs every singe game
ARAM Only accounts will feel stupid.
So people can practice playing all the champs.

outsomniaFeb 13, 20153 votes

Why not have all champions unlocked for SR and TT while we're at it?

All champs have always been available during temporary 'fun'-leagues such as All41 and URF and just like them it'll go away soon enough.

the Anarchit3chtFeb 13, 20151 votes

because aram is a "fun" league. and it'd prevent aram accounts.

ZielmannFeb 13, 20151 votes

Because on the other maps, having a small champion pool isn't providing people with a huge advantage that renders the point of the game mode useless.

Fried NoobFeb 12, 20152 votes

I've been saying for a while that having all champions unlocked in ARAM would be a good idea, since it has no downside.

QueenAquaFeb 12, 20152 votes

I can honestly say i have experienced this about three times overall in ARAM in that i got a champ i wasnt very familiar with and liked them a lot. However, the thing about ARAM is that only ranged and tank champs really have a chance unless your a really skilled melee user. I also have found myself stuck with champs i wasnt familiar with that i also didnt enjoy playing many times and only found myself not being able to fully enjoy myself. I would personally not enjoy having all the champions unlocked for me in ARAM. I have all the champions i want in my champ pool and played champions i thought i might like during the free week of that champion either on rift or dominion. By a year after you hit lvl 30 and have all your runes, if you don't know what types of champs you like, you probably havent spent much time trying new things. ARAM is one of my favorite modes. If all champs were unlocked in this mode, it would probably be utterly ruined for me. I would hope that if Riot implemented something like that that they would give a summoner more re rolls (like say 5-8) to give the player a better shot at getting a champion that they would enjoy playing. Sorry, but i personally feel that opening up all the champs in ARAM would overall ruin the fun of the mode, where i can usually enjoy the game whether we are losing or winning.

FDruFeb 12, 20156 votes

{quoted}

ARAM is one of my favorite modes. If all champs were unlocked in this mode, it would probably be utterly ruined for me.

Oh you poor baby. Meanwhile players that own all of the champions have NO FUCKING CHOICE AT ALL than to play against retarded smurf accounts full of free win champs all day.

SecretnirFeb 12, 20159 votes

{quoted}

I can honestly say i have experienced this about three times overall in ARAM in that i got a champ i wasnt very familiar with and liked them a lot. However, the thing about ARAM is that only ranged and tank champs really have a chance unless your a really skilled melee user. I also have found myself stuck with champs i wasnt familiar with that i also didnt enjoy playing many times and only found myself not being able to fully enjoy myself. I would personally not enjoy having all the champions unlocked for me in ARAM. I have all the champions i want in my champ pool and played champions i thought i might like during the free week of that champion either on rift or dominion. By a year after you hit lvl 30 and have all your runes, if you don't know what types of champs you like, you probably havent spent much time trying new things. ARAM is one of my favorite modes. If all champs were unlocked in this mode, it would probably be utterly ruined for me. I would hope that if Riot implemented something like that that they would give a summoner more re rolls (like say 5-8) to give the player a better shot at getting a champion that they would enjoy playing. Sorry, but i personally feel that opening up all the champs in ARAM would overall ruin the fun of the mode, where i can usually enjoy the game whether we are losing or winning.

The whole point of the mode is that you get a random champion that may not be in your comfort zone. If you only want to play champions you like, enjoy, and feel comfortable with, there are all the other modes in the entire game for you to go play.

LeeDarkFeb 13, 20152 votes

Actually, some of my MOST successful ARAM games have been as fighters. Darius and Xin Zhao both do really well. Yi can be a god sometimes there. Zed has no real troubles. Only the WORST Rumbles mess up their ult there.

The problem is there are plenty of people who play ARAM with ARAM only accounts, where they only own champs that do really well there. Unlocking the whole pool needs to happen.

SecretnirFeb 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually, some of my MOST successful ARAM games have been as fighters. Darius and Xin Zhao both do really well. Yi can be a god sometimes there. Zed has no real troubles. Only the WORST Rumbles mess up their ult there.

The problem is there are plenty of people who play ARAM with ARAM only accounts, where they only own champs that do really well there. Unlocking the whole pool needs to happen.

The point isn't that fighters are bad. The point is that fighters are bad when people are hedging what they'll get in ARAM on ARAM-only accounts and you are likely to be the only fighter against a team that is Jayce Lux Ziggs Nautilus Sona.

LeeDarkFeb 13, 20151 votes

No, some of those games were against supposedly superstrong champs. My favorite Darius game was against such a comp a couple of months ago, but I managed to maintain bush control early without eating too many skillshots and 5 of them died when they got a little brave to clear creeps or try to harass. Zed, too, does ridiculously well against those champions.

Do you know who the second highest winrate champion is in ARAM? Sona is, of course, first, and there should probably be some ARAM-only nerfs coming to her, if Riot cared at all about some semblance of balance in that mode. Second place, however, belongs to Galio. Heimer and Ziggs both make appearances, and can take over the second or even first place spot week to week, but mixed in that top ten OP ARAM champs are the likes of Maokai, Sion, and Wu Kong. (Granted, two of those are heavy tanks, but Nautilus doesn't even show up.)

ZielmannFeb 13, 20151 votes

You're completely correct. Having fighters on the team can be an asset. They usually provide what could be a much-needed hard initiation for fights. Thing is, you tend to be a bit more reliant on your teammates. They'll still be doing the larger amounts of damage, so you need them to actually be competent and follow you when you make moves.

junglerboy16Feb 13, 20152 votes

Kennen was free week, so you could have gotten him on ARAM too.

Nemesis Draft is awesome, to be honest. I played a match about 2 hours ago as Taric landing with a Kog'maw. He was an ex Kog'maw main, I was an ex Taric main, and it was glorious. Double killed the Udyr and Alistar who were laning against us within 3 minutes, and then snowballed them to death (I ended at 2/3/25, and Kog was one-shotting people). I think what made it best was that since everyone knew it was supposed to be a game mode where you try to win against all odds, everyone was super upbeat all game long.

ZielmannFeb 13, 20151 votes

Why the heck would anybody in that mode give a team a legit bot lane pairing?

junglerboy16Feb 13, 20151 votes

I don't know, they also gave us TwistedFate who went mid and Soraka + MissFortune who went bot, Kog and I duoed top.

ZielmannFeb 13, 20152 votes

So you got MF, who has a great early-mid game. Koggy with a great late game. Two supports with sustain, including one that can actually function as a tank/initiator. And while they took away good options for junglers, they gave you TF mid who can gank anywhere post-6.

That... just wow.

AbiwonKenabiFeb 13, 20151 votes

My Nemesis draft rule is always try to deprive the other team of a role. ADC is easiest to do this with imo...don't know what went wrong here lol

junglerboy16Feb 14, 20151 votes

Basically, yes.

Everyone on my team knew how to play their champ after we traded around a bit, and it was epic. My idea was to give the enemy the weakest free week champs and hope they didn't know how to use them as well.

lvl 2 lagspikeFeb 13, 20152 votes

Having all champs open in aram would be the best... And this nemesis mode is the worse thing I have ever played. If they could just give us urf and stop with these idiotic modes...

AbiwonKenabiFeb 13, 20151 votes

If they just gave us URF it would be boring. I personally like the variety of modes, just to mix things up. Just because you only want URF doesn't mean we all do.

My hope is eventually they will have enough working modes to have one on a regular basis, like every week. Like I said, I like the variety. And hey, if modes are regular, maybe we'd see URF mode more often.

QsarioFeb 13, 20152 votes

Riot said once that they were considering this. I'd like to see it. I have everybody and it makes me feel kinda bad because I'm at a disadvantage because of the ARAM accounts and I had to learn to terrify people with Poppy, Urgot, etc. instead.

Speaking of which, Nemesis should be interesting....

Dangerous ManFeb 13, 20152 votes

WHAT is WRONG WITH YORICK. HE HAS SPELLVAMP :D

Garlyle WildsFeb 12, 20151 votes

The last times we've heard Reds talk about ARAMs as an actual mode (and not just "hey anyone wanna ARAM?") they've been exploring this. I'm all for it, personally.

SammystormFeb 12, 20151 votes

I think that all champs should be unlocked in aram.

VadeilFeb 13, 20151 votes

I agree and it would stop people from just buying op champs.

HurlsFeb 13, 20151 votes

Aram is basically to help players get more familiarised with different roles and builds and set builds on diverse champions and strive to win, opening the whole selection pool of champions you have not attained is stupid it would cause a massive amount of rage in games with people using ap builds on adc etc we have enough of that if u want the full pool its simple just go farm the lp and unlock them like the rest of us

kitcat300Feb 13, 20151 votes

I wouldn't mind

BubbaDukeFeb 13, 20151 votes

It definitely should include all champions.

It would stop those aram accounts that only buy a small amount of champs that are OP in aram.

It would also force you to play a new champ that you didn't know you'd like, which could lead to more sales for Riot I guess.

GholiathFeb 13, 20151 votes

Yea it would make more since to have all champs unlocked

Aww KatFeb 13, 20151 votes

i agree, every champion should be unlocked in ARAM aswell

Dead EchoFeb 13, 20151 votes

I agree, It would make more sense that players have access to all the champions rather then just the ones they own. When I play ARAM a majority of the time I'm stuck playing the same champions every few matches, yes I know I can reroll or trade, but I really don't want to waste both rerolls on playing the same champion in another match then a less favorable champion comp comes up next match. When it comes to trading most of the time my allies or should I say I don't have the champion to trade with.

aaronconlinFeb 13, 20151 votes

I definitely think the champion pool for ARAM should include all teammates' champions. It would make it feel more random and shut down ARAM smurf accounts (except pre-made teams)

FelzerasMar 18, 20151 votes

I don't think unlocking all the champions would be a good idea. I don't see any problem. You can't have smurf account with 5 ''op'' champions in ARAM because you are going to have 0 % chance to get a champion you own. That's how it works. You need bigger champion pool before you have even chance to get champions you own. ARAM is optional...you don't have to play it. Champions aren't the only thing that matter, you can still lose easily with ''op champions''. I actually play only ARAM and sometimes Dominion and believe me those matches can be so unpredictable that champions don't matter much. I think Riot should make more another ''fun'' mode that isn't random but fun like URF or something and that would give people an option.

KinjishiMar 18, 20151 votes

"Why is ARAM limited to the champs you have available? Why not include the entire champ pool all the time? (except Yorick, cuz duh)" ARAM does have all champs available, but it is random. It doesn't just randomize what you have and is free to play.

Biff ManlyMar 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yasu Yoru,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=eMIHvd1c,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2015-03-18T19:59:15.955+0000)

"Why is ARAM limited to the champs you have available? Why not include the entire champ pool all the time? (except Yorick, cuz duh)" ARAM does have all champs available, but it is random. It doesn't just randomize what you have and is free to play.

Nope, definitely not. If all champs are available, then WOW I have the worst luck in the world, because I have only ever gotten champs on free week or in my possession.

177A Bleecker StMar 19, 20151 votes

I hated nemesis the people I got didn't know how to pick, for example they gave us 5 arcs and my team gave me Rammus and maokai. The next game my team have them zed. Terrible experience