Aram Balance

NeroUS·Oct 19, 2014·1 votes·1,195 views

Make "random" aram teams always have 50% chance to win; therefore, if you have a top tier aram champion, either your opponents have one or someone else on your team has a bottom tier champion.

15 Comments

ZielmannOct 19, 20142 votes

Please no. That would no longer be ARAM. If you can't accept that some games are just going to be one-sided, ARAM just isn't for you.

Plasma ServantApr 26, 20151 votes

That is not a valid argument. ARAM can be balanced, and that would greatly improve it. The most fun ARAM are where the teams are balanced. It is no fun (win or lose) if it is one-sided. It is vastly more fun to be in ARAM with balanced teams than any other mode. So many of us put up with the worthless games in order to be able to play in the really good games where it is even, and fought well. Riot could make it balanced, but they probably would have to eliminate the re-roll completely. As it is, the percentage of games that can be good games is rather small. I hate winning or losing one sided matches ... it just isn't any fun.

Ice Weasel XApr 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Plasma Servant,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=KicvQyxU,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-04-26T10:06:30.844+0000)

That is not a valid argument. ARAM can be balanced, and that would greatly improve it. The most fun ARAM are where the teams are balanced. It is no fun (win or lose) if it is one-sided. It is vastly more fun to be in ARAM with balanced teams than any other mode. So many of us put up with the worthless games in order to be able to play in the really good games where it is even, and fought well. Riot could make it balanced, but they probably would have to eliminate the re-roll completely. As it is, the percentage of games that can be good games is rather small. I hate winning or losing one sided matches ... it just isn't any fun.

And there are also many of us who enjoy the lopsided matches even more than the "even" composition matchups. Forcing "balance" would completely ruin that aspect of the game mode. Part of the fun is that you never know whether you'll end up with a good setup or a lousy setup. The rest is trying to make it work.

Plasma ServantApr 26, 20151 votes

You mean you totally enjoy having a lousy setup, know from the start that you are going to lose, see it pan out exactly as you knew it would, and still think it was fun? Do you also enjoy beating your head against a wall? LOL

I can understand really bad players wanting to occasionally win, so they like it when they get a really unbalanced good team.

ZielmannApr 26, 20151 votes

I enjoy looking at a situation, and trying to devise the best possible way to play it to give the team the best shot at winning. 5 melee against 5 poke? The melee probably has the better initiation of the two. Going all-in fairly often will likely net at least even trades. And when you get later in the game, the team with tanks with solid initiation has a good shot at winning. On the other side of it, I've been on the team of 5 poke/ranged champs, and ended up playing an unconventional support-tank role (sivir, for example). It's won us games before.

There's no sense in making sweeping changes to a game mode when it doesn't need it. I'd rather see Riot start small before implementing any sort of balance measures in the game. Do what the players have asked for since the mode was released (full champion roster availability for the mode). Let that go and see how it changes things. Even with re-rolls in the game, I can guarantee you that you see the team full of 5 top ARAM champs far less often.

After that, perhaps review the re-roll system itself. Maybe it needs removed (would greatly increase dodging, though). Maybe make it a team-wide thing, where you can vote to re-roll your entire roster, or else keep what you have. This forces you to look at the comp as a whole and decide if you can figure out a way to make it work or not.

Only then would I start looking at things that actually affect gameplay, be that item balance or champion balance.

Notice that nowhere did I even consider the idea of doing things that fundamentally change the game mode, like all the ideas you've thrown around. Forcing a 'balanced comp' destroys the randomness that makes the game mode fun. Having both teams have an identical but random comp is also counter to what ARAM is supposed to be. These aren't the kinds of changes that ARAM players want. They would probably result in killing off the game mode, actually.

Not everybody can embrace what makes ARAM fun to those of us who love the mode, and that's okay.

SmB KojiDec 2, 20142 votes

Just grant some value or points to every champ (according to the winrate they have in ARAM) and make each team have a total score point roughly equal. You're still in random, but the "5 pokes versus nunu taric quinn (and 2 merely okay)" can't happen anymore. Not so hard, way funnier and balanced.

NeroUSOct 19, 20141 votes

there are plenty of aram players that have accounts with only op champions; the top tier of aram has a large number of players with a tiny champion pool because otherwise they can't compete

ZielmannOct 19, 20147 votes

The solution to that is to make all champions available for ARAM. Smurfs are now useless. Heck, there would actually be incentive to unlock all the champions because you would gain rerolls faster.

Suien ReizoOct 19, 20141 votes

The solution to that is to make all champions available for ARAM. Smurfs are now useless. Heck, there would actually be incentive to unlock all the champions because you would gain rerolls faster.

While making all champions available to everyone in ARAM, thus eliminating smurfs, I imagine that you would no longer obtain rerolls for the number of champions in your roster as that is the current 'balance' between the smurf rosters and everyone else. Those with more champions to draw from are able to reroll more often.

ZielmannOct 19, 20143 votes

But why would it have to be that way? The biggest argument against making all champs free in ARAM is specifically the fear that people who only play ARAM would never need to unlock/buy any game content. But this is a flawed argument in my opinion. All those ARAM smurfs already won't be unlocking or buying game content once they have their top 10 or so ARAM champions unlocked. My counter to that whole theory is to leave the reroll system functioning as it does, with point gain tied to number of champions you have unlocked. This actually provides incentive for players to unlock the full roster.

Plasma ServantApr 26, 20151 votes

what would work even better, is both teams have exactly the same (selected from all) and no rerolls. Then every game would be perfectly balanced. No more 5 melee against 5 ranged. or 5 squishy late game against 2 tanks, 2 assassins and a ranged adc

Dr JarjarbinksOct 19, 20141 votes

Lets keep random as random as possible and not turn it into "random."

Think about what you are suggesting. Even if they implemented this the person with the low tier champ rr or trades to someone with a rr. Are you saying that person should only rr to an equally bad champ? And who decides which champs are op? Of course some are but skill and comp are more important and since its as random and balanced as it can be without real effort from riot to balance around aram which prbly isnt gonna happen and I dont even know if it would be a good thing anyway. For example some ppl think kat is op while I suck with her and will trade or rr her. The game cant know ahead of time how good someone will play a champ or if they will rr or trade therefore it cant dictate who gets what champ in any way other than attempting to be random.

Plasma ServantApr 26, 20151 votes

There are an infinite number of ways of making random be balanced, but all of them would probably eliminate the re-roll system. Riot knows full well what champions have equal playing skills and style. They know if they are late game or early. They know if they are long range or short range or melee. They know the survivability/tankiness of champions. They can make absolutely sure both teams are equal, with no re-rolls at least they can. Then it is random (and even more random than with re-rolls because people can't switch from a champ they aren't that good with to one they like by rolling).

Dr JarjarbinksApr 26, 20152 votes

I agree that some things can be and are known about champs in relation to balance. I don't think riot could balance aram in the way you describe without strangling what makes aram interesting and sometimes, just sometimes, fucking amazing. You are basically suggesting riot impose a strict meta. X number melee, x number mage, etc. I would stop playing it

Plasma ServantMar 31, 20151 votes

The best balance would be afforded by having no rolls, and every team has exactly the same champions. The wait time might go up by a little, but at least the teams would be even all the time. (also, if you have "free to play, unowned champions on one team, the other should as well.)

Then it would at least never be such that you can tell from the start that you cannot win. Riot, make the change. Make random also be balanced. If you need help with the concept, I'm sure there are plenty of programmers who could replace the ones you have and do exactly that.