We should get ranked for Dominion.

Trap Nap·Dec 19, 2014·16 votes·970 views

I mean TT has it why not Dom?

I think it could bring a lot of interest for it.

35 Comments

disregardableDec 19, 20144 votes

Because no one plays dominion.

RebonackDec 19, 20144 votes

There are plenty of Dominion players!

And by plenty I mean WAY less than Summoner's Rift or ARAM.

If Ranked had been enabled right off the bat along with serious map-specific balance changes maybe things would have been different. Riot fumbled Dominion pretty darn hard.

Raise DongrsDec 19, 20141 votes

I feel like you're one of those people who say that Urgot and Yorick are popular

RebonackDec 19, 20145 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raise Dongrs,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=3QmtqHFg,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2014-12-19T20:02:19.880+0000)

I feel like you're one of those people who say that Urgot and Yorick are popular

On Rift? No.

On Dominion? Sure. They're absolute monsters bottom lane due to the Health Relics and the improved mana regen. This has been common knowledge in the Dominion community since... well... basically since the map came out.

Raise DongrsDec 19, 20141 votes

I feel like Dominion is literally someone going "Okay, well he sucks on the rift. Let's bring him over here!" Personally I'm not a fan of Dominion because it doesn't have the same depth and complexity of Rift games. But that's just me

RebonackDec 19, 20148 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raise Dongrs,realm=NA,application-id=LFfTlAky,discussion-id=3QmtqHFg,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-19T20:09:47.816+0000)

I feel like Dominion is literally someone going "Okay, well he sucks on the rift. Let's bring him over here!" Personally I'm not a fan of Dominion because it doesn't have the same depth and complexity of Rift games. But that's just me

If Dominion were just the shortbus version of Rift then why is it that even mediocre Dominion teams were able to consistently destroy Challenger-level Summoner's Rift teams in Dominate Dominion?

Dominion's issue is that it's so different from League's main mode that most people jumping in have absolutely no idea what they're supposed to be doing aside from a few vague ideas like 'controlling Windmill is good'. The fact that IP farming bots have been poisoning the new player pool for well over a year now doesn't help matters either.

Dominion has just as much depth of complexity as Rift, but that complexity is focused in different directions. There's no free vision all over the jungle, so positioning and situational awareness are FAR more important than they are on Rift. The decision-making process is much more rapid fire. You're constantly on the lookout for situations to outplay and weaknesses to exploit. A much wider level of team compositions can actually work here because Dominion isn't locked into the Top/Mid/Bot/Jungle laning paradigm.

There are still some balance issues (hey there Assassins) but to be fair Rift is dealing with that same nonsense right now, too. Barring a few edge cases, Dominion is GREAT for giving an idea of what champions are live given equal footing. It offers insights that you typically don't get on Rift.

MinardeDec 20, 20143 votes

Part of the problem is that new players to Dominion aren't exposed to the same level of play that new players to SR are. There's tournaments, streams, and guides aplenty for SR, but much fewer resources for Dominion. Beginners judge the complexity of Dominion based on what other beginners do, which is sorta like judging SR based on the actions of the level one player buying multiple boots and thornmail on Ashe.

Rather than less depth, Dominion simply has a different focus than SR. SR is a lot slower and farming-oriented, e.g. "where do I have to be in 5-10 minutes?" Dominion requires a much faster pace with skirmishes ("where do I have to be in 5-10 seconds?"). As Rebonack said, map awareness and timing are much more important skills.

SeCKS EgaiDec 20, 20141 votes

{quoted}

There are plenty of Dominion players!

And by plenty I mean WAY less than Summoner's Rift or ARAM.

If Ranked had been enabled right off the bat along with serious map-specific balance changes maybe things would have been different. Riot fumbled Dominion pretty darn hard.

It's kinda like dom was a failed experiment - it held a lot of promise, but right now I associate it with a lot of players running automated scripts.

Adding a ranked queue now.... I just don't see it being anything other than a waste. I actually remember when it was feasible to play draft on dom. It didn't last long.

If anything, I would rather we get a permanent URF for co-op and pvp.

FDruDec 20, 20143 votes

It's kinda like dom was a failed experiment - it held a lot of promise, but right now I associate it with a lot of players running automated scripts.

There's bots in all modes. No really. Dominion may be infested with them now but only because Riot doesn't give a shit about Dom and so it's basically a place for them to hide.

Adding a ranked queue now.... I just don't see it being anything other than a waste. I actually remember when it was feasible to play draft on dom. It didn't last long.

Draft did last long, actually. When it eventually died, it was due to reasons unrelated to the map itself. Mainly queue dodges being unpunished and draft MMR being shared with normal MMR, so anyone with above average MMR was waiting forever to get a game in draft (which was probably just going to be dodged anyway) while most of the high MMR slots were taken up by OP spammers in normals.

If anything, I would rather we get a permanent URF for co-op and pvp.

/facepalm

SeCKS EgaiDec 21, 20141 votes

{quoted}

There's bots in all modes. No really. Dominion may be infested with them now but only because Riot doesn't give a shit about Dom and so it's basically a place for them to hide.

Draft did last long, actually. When it eventually died, it was due to reasons unrelated to the map itself. Mainly queue dodges being unpunished and draft MMR being shared with normal MMR, so anyone with above average MMR was waiting forever to get a game in draft (which was probably just going to be dodged anyway) while most of the high MMR slots were taken up by OP spammers in normals.

/facepalm

Guess My original response to this disappeared.

1 - Players botting in dom happened long before they appeared elsewhere. I ate a few losses to bots back then in co-op bot at the time I hadn't realized they were running scripts. I assumed they were just really new and didn't think that scripted behavior would get past the client.

How long is long for you? I was consistently seeing 10+ minute q times for draft even before priscilla's blessing was removed. Dom released in patch 1.0.0.125 and blessing was removed in 1.0.0.129. That's not a very long time at all to me. It basically got to the point where why bother with draft when norm q times were 2 minutes or less.
Why facepalm? People have made threads about quitting until URF returned. You never saw that kind of devotion towards Dom. Even for folks around during the height of Dom's popularity, you'll find that plenty of players barely earned a medal (if any) for the mode. While I liked that it offered something diffferent, it struggled to hold people's interest even before the botters took over.

For Dom to regain some much needed popularity, some new incentives need to be added. A ranked mode alone just wouldn't be enough. I'm pretty much on SR or ARAM these days.

FDruDec 21, 20143 votes

1 - Players botting in dom happened long before they appeared elsewhere. I ate a few losses to bots back then in co-op bot at the time I hadn't realized they were running scripts. I assumed they were just really new and didn't think that scripted behavior would get past the client.

Bots have been around in all modes, for all time. I saw a lot of bots in ARAM when I started playing it. Not really surprising, but I never see them anymore. How often you actually see them has more to do with your MMR than anything.

How long is long for you? I was consistently seeing 10+ minute q times for draft even before priscilla's blessing was removed. Dom released in patch 1.0.0.125 and blessing was removed in 1.0.0.129. That's not a very long time at all to me. It basically got to the point where why bother with draft when norm q times were 2 minutes or less.

Oh no. 10+ minute queues. Draft queues are long in every mode, and they start to get really bad after 1800-1900+ MMR. This is nothing new. My queue times before I quit SR were averaging 16+ minutes, and that was in normals. And did you know that only about 15% of players queue for draft as opposed to normals? By your logic I guess that means SR was dead.

Why facepalm? People have made threads about quitting until URF returned. You never saw that kind of devotion towards Dom. Even for folks around during the height of Dom's popularity, you'll find that plenty of players barely earned a medal (if any) for the mode. While I liked that it offered something diffferent, it struggled to hold people's interest even before the botters took over.

Because URF is a joke mode that a vocal minority cares about. Nobody is quitting the game because there's no URF, either. Go make your own thread to beg for it back, instead of hijacking a Dominion thread.

SeCKS EgaiDec 21, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Bots have been around in all modes, for all time. I saw a lot of bots in ARAM when I started playing it. Not really surprising, but I never see them anymore. How often you actually see them has more to do with your MMR than anything.

Oh no. 10+ minute queues. Draft queues are long in every mode, and they start to get really bad after 1800-1900+ MMR. This is nothing new. My queue times before I quit SR were averaging 16+ minutes, and that was in normals. And did you know that only about 15% of players queue for draft as opposed to normals? By your logic I guess that means SR was dead.

Because URF is a joke mode that a vocal minority cares about. Nobody is quitting the game because there's no URF, either. Go make your own thread to beg for it back, instead of hijacking a Dominion thread.

Bots weren't around for all time - I managed to make my first 30 long before I ever saw bots. The botting really became an issue with the refer a friend rewards, though a lot of the time they'd just run custom games (until that stopped giving rewards).

I don't see 10+ minute queue times as normal but I've never been anywhere close to plat. Yet I still saw 10+ minute draft queues when I could go to norms for 2 minutes or less. I preferred draft but it wasn't worth it for me to wait. When I started seeing hour + queues I stopped checking it altogether.

Sure, I've seen the waits for diamonds and challengers, but when you're at the top of the food chain it's to be expected. My dom mmr might have been high enough for maybe gold, well below them. Hell, aram is usually under a minute and I'm not exactly going to dodge queue just to prevent mmr loss there.

I don't run blind pick normals, and while draft will take me a bit longer (if I'm not running ranked or team builder) it's not a major gap as far as SR goes.

Insulting someone who has an opposing view isn't going to generate more interest. I used to play Dom heavily. I lost interest and was explaining why. Instead of being rude and abrasive about it, you'd make a lot more progress by looking at why people aren't playing it and try to address their concerns.

There are a few threads requesting more attention to Dom, and while it could use it - more of the player base likely needs to be invested for riot to find it worthwhile.

FDruDec 21, 20143 votes

Insulting someone who has an opposing view isn't going to generate more interest. I used to play Dom heavily. I lost interest and was explaining why. Instead of being rude and abrasive about it, you'd make a lot more progress by looking at why people aren't playing it and try to address their concerns.

There are a few threads requesting more attention to Dom, and while it could use it - more of the player base likely needs to be invested for riot to find it worthwhile.

I wasn't being rude, but I'm about to be.

The playerbase didn't abandon Dominion, Riot did.

The blood of Crystal Scar is on the hands of its creators, and nobody else. And they damn well know it.

DrCyanideDec 19, 20143 votes

My cousin tried playing Draft Dominion. It had a queue time of over half an hour. As Riot has already pointed out, Draft Dominion is the reason there is no Ranked Dominion. You would split the queues and make it even harder to find games.

My personal opinion is that Riot needs to update the Custom game mode so you can select previously featured game modes and play them, then relegate Dominion to there. I honestly believe that Dominion is the reason none of the Featured Game Modes are here to stay.

AMYS GRAVEDec 19, 20141 votes

legit question here,

I honestly believe that Dominion is the reason none of the Featured Game Modes are here to stay.

Why?

DrCyanideDec 19, 20143 votes

Dominion itself is essentially a Featured Game Mode turned permanent. Dominion is set up in such a way that no players could create a similar map or objective system in League (unlike ARAM, which can be/was played in Custom Games before it was made into a full mode). This level of customization is unique to Featured Game Modes.

I don't doubt that initially many, many more people found Dominion to be a great game mode and a great break from normals, but the climate has changed such that it's not the case anymore. That level of fall off is what I think Riot fears will happen if any of the Featured Game Modes (URF, Hexakill, All for One, Snowdown, Etc.) if they are made available all the time.

I think the best solution is to only have game modes be "Featured" every once in a while when they're updated, but have them available as "Custom Game Modes" via the Custom Games lobby at other times, with the disclaimer that only Featured Game Modes are supported. I think Dominion should also go into this "Custom Game Modes" group because of it's similarities to other Featured Game Modes.

The EllimiistDec 20, 20141 votes

Each new game type/map splits the player base of the already small niche of people playing non-rift

MinardeDec 20, 20146 votes

Draft Dominion is dead because Riot killed it ages ago. For several months, there was no penalty for dodging, so everyone switched to blind pick. The queue never recovered, aside from sporadic "It's Draft Day!" efforts by the community.

Riot's argument against ranked Dominion is that the playerbase is too small to support it. However, the lack of updates (including ranked) makes the playerbase continue to shrink. So essentially, no ranked because small playerbase. Small playerbase because no ranked. Fun stuff.

No, Summoner's Rift is the reason none of the Featured Game Modes are here to stay. Patches and rhetoric revolve around SR. Featured Modes are temporary breaks from SR. Alternate game modes are distractions from SR. Everything else flounders because almost all resources are funneled into SR.

0115D8CFDec 20, 20142 votes

I've heard draft dominion had a bug, I think where people weren't penalized for dodging, and it went unfixed for months, causing most serious draft players to leave it. Now, people only queue for it to see how long it take. Put in a working mode, and put in effort to keep it working, and people will play it. I still am completely in favor of replacing normal draft with ranked.

SukishooDec 19, 20142 votes

It was actually in the game but was never enabled from what Riot said a long time ago.

CerbearusDec 20, 20142 votes

Riot confirmed ranked Dominion before it even came out, which was...3 years ago?

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=12526346#12526346

Dr EasterDec 22, 20142 votes

Riot said no ranked because it'd split the player base and does not help at all because the same happened to TT. But when they said it a lot of people told them they don't play ranked TT because it's team ranked not solo (including me). I think ranked would do great for Dom if you consider that during featured game mode days the quality of the matches improve a lot since the players that care more about it stays while the ones that see it as a joke move to the featured mode. (unfortunately this has no effect during end of year holidays since all kids are in home) Dominion is the only reason I'm still playing this game. Wish Riot would recognize they are wrong aobut the mode as they recognized they were wrong about not having champions like Kalista and Azir.

JedditeDec 22, 20142 votes

TL:DR: Rito James™ doesn't want to support ranked Dominion because it might work.

Splitting the player base has always been a red herring Rito James™ uses to justify their continued stance of ignoring Dominion. While it is technically true -- if you're queue'd up for ranked Dominion, you can't be queued up for Ranked Summoner's Rift -- it's completely bogus to conclude that players queue'ing up for ranked Dominion would have a noticeable impact on queue times for ranked Summoner's Rift. Since there never has been a ranked Dominion, Rito James™ has no numbers to support the conclusion they (very obviously) want -- and any attempt to extrapolate changes in queue times for ranked Summoner's Rift by using Twisted Treeline as a baseline (for considering adding ranked Dominion) is flawed.

If players could unlock end-of-season achievements (e.g. Victorious skins, loading screen borders) via ranked Dominion, they will have an incentive to play. Rito James™ wants the player base to buy into their auto-conclusion that players queue'ing up for ranked Dominion will result in a noticeable deleterious effect on ranked Summoner's Rift. (But again, they have no numbers to support that... since it's never happened). Some players may opt to pursue Gold V in Dominion because it's "easier" than Summoner's Rift. Other players (like Jeddite) would rather play Dominion than Summoner's Rift -- the challenge of "road to Gold V" being immaterial. Players who enjoy Summoner's Rift will remain in Summoner's Rift. The playerbase for ranked Summoner's Rift (the gameplay experience, that is) may, in fact, in improve -- players who want to work ranked achievements won't feel pigeon-holed into Summoner's Rift. That's beneficial for both players who do want to play ranked Summoner's Rift and players who want to unlock end-of-season achievements, but don't want Summoner's Rift to be their only option for solo-queue.

Rito James™ could mitigate some potential playerbase shortage issues in ranked Dominion but simply making it solo- and duo-queue only. (At least for the first season.) Ranked Twisted Treeline is team-only. Ranked Dominion could be solo-queue only. Rito James™ is likely correct in their conclusions that 5v5 ranked Dominion does not have enough players to support that ranked ladder. Fine, OK. Keep ranked Twisted Treeline for teams-only. Make ranked Dominion solo-queue only. Rank in Dominion could stop at Diamond I (since there is -- at this time -- no LCS/Worlds/Whatever for Dominion). That could happen -- and the thought of there being a sufficient playerbase demand for the Dominion equivalent of LCS would mean Rito James™'s "LOL E**$PORT$** LOL" business model expanding beyond only Summoner's Rift (which is something they don't want - and are not ready for).

It's all a damn shame, really.

The EllimiistDec 20, 20141 votes

Dominion was suppose to be the "casual mode to blow off steam and not worry about being overly competitive". So they thought ranked would not fit with that theme.

MinardeDec 20, 20142 votes

Nope. When Dominion launched, Riot said ranked was coming. Subsequent arguments about ranked have always revolved around playerbase size, not whether or not the map was competitive.

0115D8CFDec 20, 20141 votes

not to derail or discredit this thread, but it'd be cool if people would post here to try to get a big thread in Maps & Modes to let Riot know how we feel.

Ale non è maleDec 20, 20141 votes

Dominion mode need to be refreshed before even think about making it a ranked mode. The map and the capture the flag mechanisms aren't that bad, the potential is there as shown by Ascension, which wasone of the better featured mode, but it feel like the map lacks some important objective to grab and the center of the map and the games are slower than what they should be

IlyaK1986Dec 21, 20141 votes

Important objective? It's called capture points. Grab them. Win. Unless you have the map 5-capped, there's ALWAYS an objective open.

Ale non è maleDec 21, 20141 votes

I don't dislike the dominion mode, but imho, you need some important objective(not the relics) to force skirmishes/fights here and there at the center of the map that right now can be almost ignored for the whole game and feels like an empty wasted space

MinardeDec 22, 20141 votes

If you mean the Greater Relics in the center, there's a bunch of people who agree with you that they could use some more incentive.

If you mean the jungle area, that's generally where most skirmishes happen. Aside from bot-laners, people familiar with the map don't tend to spend much time on the outer ring.

Ale non è maleDec 22, 20141 votes

Yeah, I mean the Greater Relics, they felt useless. I know skirmishes happens in the jungle, but these happen in the brushes around the capture points in the outer ring because, again, the center of the map feels empty and his objectives unrewarding

RebonackDec 20, 20141 votes

Riot tried placing a Baron-style objective in the middle of Dominion, but the team that would win there would typically then 5-cap and snowball the game really hard.

It was workable in Ascension because it didn't function on capture points, but rather on grabbing the three relics.

0115D8CFDec 20, 20141 votes

when did this happen? I'm curious about it because I've never heard anything about it

JedditeDec 21, 20141 votes

Remember all the "OMG NERF KASSAWIN" threads? I do.

And who was posting 99.9999999999987% of them? Players queuing up for normal mode Dominion.

Slash sigh.