Sliding Scale of Champion Morality

HonestJohnTheCon··52 votes·5,230 views

A lot of people seemed to like the Sliding Scale of Champion Lore Update Necessity I created last week, so I decided to do another one that is more lore-focused. This is a tier list of the champion's moral standing and general motivations. Note that I'm not using the standard D&D/Pathfinder alignment system (LG, NG, CG, etc.) but I'm instead using a system of tiers that I think most accurately sums up various champion motivations. Just like last time, champions with a "^" in front of their icon will have a comment at the end of the tier.

#Tier 1: Noble These champions are genuinely kind, good-hearted, and virtuous. They have few flaws or vices, and will lend a helping hand to many random people that they see. What separates a Noble champion from a Good champion is the Noble champion's utter conviction; in other words, always doing the right thing, not necessarily striving to do the right thing. The Noble champions are: Anivia Blitzcrank Braum Galio Ivern Janna^ Poppy Soraka Taric Tristana^ Zac ^ Ignoring mischief, these champions are still great characters, so they qualify. #Tier 2: Good These champions are kindhearted and good people. They are willing to make personal sacrifices for the greater good, and are usually portrayed as heroes. Keep in mind that a champion being amiable is not enough; champions need to have a good-hearted motivation to be considered Good. Most Demacians, Pilties, and many Ionians are in this category. The Good champions are: Alistar Ashe Azir Caitlyn Ekko Garen Heimerdinger Irelia JarvanIV Jayce Karma Kassadin LeeSin Leona Lux MasterYi Nami Nasus Nunu Quinn Shyvana Taliyah Vi MonkeyKing #Tier 3: Balance These champions want to protect the balance of the universe or world, at all costs. This group consists of the Kinkou Order, obviously, and a few others. This is more of a motivation or duty rather than a moral choice; these own characters' morals might fall into any one of the other categories, but their duty is the most important. The Balance champions are: Akali Kennen Kindred Ryze Shen Udyr #Tier 4: Nonstandard Either nobody knows what these champions want, or it's something so bizarre or alien that it's hard to conceive. Extraplanar champions that AREN'T OBVIOUSLY EVIL will probably be included here. Voidspawn don't count, not even Kog'Maw or Rek'Sai, because they are fundamentally destructive. Some of these champs may need lore work. Nearly all these champions have strange motivations, so all of them are commented. The Nonstandard champions are: Aatrox Ahri AurelionSol Bard Diana DrMundo Illaoi KogMaw Kayle Malphite Pantheon Rammus RekSai Riven Skarner Volibear Zyra Comments: Aatrox, and Illaoi fall into the "Fight" camp. They don't care about why you fight; the only thing that matters is you fight. Ahri and Riven fall into "I want to be a good person but I'm not" camp. They're actively looking for redemption but have no clue how to get it. For Aurelion Sol, Diana, Nautilus, Pantheon, and Volibear, we just don't know what they're going to do. We can guess that Aurelion Sol wants revenge on Targon, and that Diana's going to "look for clues", but that doesn't mean we know what they want exactly. The exception here is Volibear, who's been in an uncertain state since Ornn's release. Bard, Kayle, and Malphite could easily be in "Balance" but their circumstances are a bit more otherworldly, so I'm putting them here. Skarner has a goal, his motivation and manner is just kinda... weird. Kog'Maw, Rek'Sai, and Zyra just want food. Not to say they're good guy,s just saying we don't know enough about their culture/standards to accurately judge them. No one knows anything about Rammus. OK. Mundo goes where he pleases. He goes to Tier 4. #Tier 5: Neutral These champions just don't care. They have a conscience, but their work doesn't raise any moral questions, so they need not concern themselves with it. These champions can be amiable, standoffish, or just insane. They might have a motivation, but they don't care for others' wars. Or, they might just not have a motivation. The Neutral champions are: Amumu Annie Corki Ezreal Fizz Gnar Gragas Jax Lulu Nidalee Olaf Orianna Ornn Rengar Rumble Sona XinZhao Ziggs Zilean #Tier 6: Determined / Vengeful For Determined champions, the ends justify the means. These champs are fighting for reasonable or even noble goals, but their methods are... rather extreme. For Vengeful champions, it is the same as Determined, except revenge is their primary goal. For these champions, killing ordinary people or innocents can't be a part of their everyday work, even if they believe it is for the best; so, Jhin and Karthus do not belong here. The Determined or Vengeful champions are: Camille Fiora Kalista Lucian Maokai MissFortune Morgana Nautilus Rakan Sejuani Teemo Tryndamere Varus Vayne Viktor Warwick Xayah Yasuo Yorick #Tier 7: Questionable These champions aren't evil, they might not even be villains, but their acts are definitely morally gray. The difference between these champions and Determined or Vengeful champions is that they enjoy their power and acts, rather than seeing them as a necessary evil. Often, these champions follow a false law or are being manipulated by person of higher power. Most Noxians fall under this category. The Questionable champions are: Cassiopeia Darius Draven Graves Jinx^Katarina Kayn Kled Sivir Syndra Talon TwistedFate Zed Comments (^): Well, this one was tricky. Honestly, Jinx has done enough evil stuff to qualify as Evil, but she seems to like mayhem more than blood. This, plus a Rioter said she was chaotic-neutral (I'm a hypocrite, flame me later), makes me put her in Questionable. #Tier 8: Evil Let's not beat around the bush; these champions are evil. They do lots of twisted, vile, or just WRONG acts that clearly paint them in an evil light. A decent number of the characters on this list are insane. For a champion to be evil, they have to at least be reachable; for demons and similar creatures, see Irredeemable. The Evil champions are: Elise Gangplank Jhin Leblanc Lissandra MalzaharRenekton Singed Swain Trundle Twitch Urgot Veigar Vladimir Xerath #Tier 9: Irredeemable Champions in this tier are evil through and through; something about their nature makes them impossible to be reached. Most Voidborn, most Shadow Islanders, and demons or similar entities are in this tier. If a character from this list somehow ceased to be evil, they would cease to be themselves. The Void, even though their goals are unknown, qualify for this due to Runeterra's moral standards. The Irredeemable champions are: Brand Chogath Evelynn Fiddlesticks Hecarim Karthus Kayn (Rhaast) Khazix Mordekaiser Nocturne Shaco Sion TahmKench Thresh Velkoz

Tell me if I screwed up the rankings in one form or another. I'll either reply and argue or make the necessary change. If you have any feedback, please tell me also!

~ Helixarrow

<inb4 someone tells me their main champ is "less evil" than where I placed them>

181 Comments

Sylveon12 votes

Before i get to my point just wanna say, awesome work on the list. Riot has a tendency to like making layerd champs so they can be more relateable even if they seem evil at first, so categorizing all of them couldn't have been easy.

The only 2 things i disagree with are with Bard and Taric. Bard only appears in Runeterra when something threatens existance, meaning he wants to keep the world in balance. As for Taric, he pretty much only protects beautiful things. If he were to see a rare and beautiful flower in danger and a village being attacked, he'd choose to protect the former.

HonestJohnTheCon4 votes

Taric, kind of. What you said is true, which might push him into the "Good" or "Nonstandard" category, but I still see him as a generally pretty good guy who would sacrifice his life to protect things. So, I guess I'll keep him at Noble.

With Bard, it could go either way. What edged me towards Nonstandard is that there are really only theories about why he does what he does. Also, he's much harder to relate to than, say, Shen, and his methods are much more abstract than Kindred.

HonestJohnTheCon12 votes

List of things I wanted to add but didn't:

  • Make a Tier 10 - Infernal that only has Teemo in it.
  • Make Irredeemable Tier 1, just because Mordekaiser is in it. MORDEKAISER ES NUMERO UNO HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
  • Make Evil Tier 4, just because Jhin is in it.
  • Put all of Gypsylord's champions, except Jhin, in Tier 3.
  • Put Draven in Tier Draven - Draaaaaven.

Added bonus:

  • Ryze is in Tier 3. Maybe I'll move him to Tier 4 when they rework him again.
CannabisOverlord2 votes

I was thinking the same for Morde xD

Velzard of Koz9 votes

Vel'Koz? Evil beyond redemption? No. He's just a scientist with moved bar of life-worth.

We kill lower animals and even apes for our scietific experiments everyday. He just doesn't consider something as pathetic compared to him as human worth living If he can get some useful data out of them.

When you compare him to sadists, egoists, fanatics and warmongers, he seems like having actual purpose.

Not that I'd like to get disintegrated, but If Vel'koz is evil, so is half of those you marked as "Neutral".

And yes I couldn't resist from the last paragraph.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Disclaimer: Because of how subjective "good" and "evil" are, the rankings are based on typical Runeterran viewpoints. From Vel'Koz's or even a Voidspawn's viewpoint, he's just a scientist doing his job.

Also, some of the most terrifying villains are the ones with purpose; Mordekaiser, Tahm Kench, and Thresh - probably three of the most intelligent villains - are also among the most powerful and dangerous.

...not that there's any villain champion more intelligent than Vel'Koz, your Opticalness.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

But then again there are few Demacian champions who are questionable to be considered good when they opress and persecute Mages. And why is Sion bad then? He does what his nation considers to be profiting and he never asked to be ressurected.

Even If we look at what Runeterra considers moral, Runeterra itself has very wide array of morals based on region. Vastayans may put most of your "Good" picks into "Evil" just due to racism.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Sion, in life, wasn't that bad. Mostly just because he's undead and the Black Rose resurrected him to be a war machine, and that's kinda all he is... a war machine who serves Noxus's interests. However, he's kind of a complete monster and loves bloodshed, so he's THAT KIND of Noxian.

But back to your points...

(warning, rant)

Yes, some Vastayans are racists. Yes, some Demacians are fascists. Yes, we humans kill other animals for our experiences, cuz we humans suck as a species, even if we are the most intelligent.

Which brings me to my point. Vel'Koz's intelligence and (generally correct) assumption that humans are lower lifeforms doesn't exclude him from the "evil characters" list. He's cold and unfeeling, and doesn't care about the humans or lifeforms he kills.

In the show Rick and Morty, there is a character in one episode named "Fart", who is a hyper-intelligent gaseous cloud who can convert oxygen into gold by adding protons. Towards the end of the episode, he reveals that he is going to wipe the universe of all carbon-based life, saying it is "a threat to all higher life". The best part is he's completely oblivious to why this is a bad thing.

Vel'Koz is very similar. He's evil in the way that he kills humans FOR SCIENCE! While this makes him more sympathetic of a villain, that doesn't mean he isn't in the wrong about his methods.

(rant ends here)

Glory ln Death2 votes

If Sion is irredeemable, so is Mundo.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

...I might move Sion to Questionable. He is a paragon of Noxian strength, and even kinda hates Swain even though Swain revived him.

Mundo goes where he pleases.

Glory ln Death2 votes

My argument for Sion would be that he is not "unreachable", as you put it. My interpretation of that is that they are inherently unchangeable - Tahm Kench an Evelynn are incarnations of evil - it's who they are at their core. For them to change would be like a human no longer using DNA - they would be something completely different at their very core.

However, Sion has already been changed. After Boram Darkwill and the Black Rose resurrected him, he was pure wanton killing incarnate. Everything around him died, and the only way they could stop him was to lock him in a magical statue. Then comes Swain, who manages to restore some of his control (having Vlad implant some of J4's blood into Sion's brain to focus him), so that he is now usually manageable, if very angry and always looking for a fight. He is not wantonly killing, and recognizes a purpose in fighting - to bring glory to Noxus, like in his life. Although, he can still get out of hand in a fight.

I'm not sure if I would put him in Questionable, given his state right now. He understands what he is doing and why he is doing it, even if he is "forced" to do it in some ways, because of the way he was "programmed" in his resurrection and the "reprogramming" blood.

Because of that drive to fight and kill, I'd say he belongs in Evil, but he could easily move back into Determined, if he got a little more reprogramming.

Chembaron Yamada7 votes

Should Dr. Mundo really be considered evil? His problem is that he can't understand that pain is a bad thing for other people and they lack his regeneration powers.

He actually thinks that he is helping people. I think he should rather be nonstandard.

Ziggs shouldn't be good. Did you read his comic with Jinx? He is blowing up stuff just for fun in Piltover. He isn't reckless like Jinx, since he avoids to harm people, but blowing up other people's property just for fun isn't good. He should be questionable, I guess?

HonestJohnTheCon6 votes

Dr. Mundo may think that he is helping people, but so does Karthus; my problem with them is that he is killing people, unlike Viktor who doesn't mess with people's bodies unless they want him to. Insanity and stupidity do not justify evil acts. Plus, he pretty much massacred an asylum (not to say that the staff didn't deserve it).

For Ziggs, not questionable, maybe neutral. Before he had his whole thing with Jinx, he didn't really destroy buildings except abandoned ones. He was kind of letting go, I think, but I put him good because he has a conscience. Neutral would probably be better though.

Chembaron Yamada6 votes

Hm, but the basis of the nonstandard tier is that their mindset is beyond our understanding.

Isn't that kinda the case with Mundo? His mindset is that pain is joy, that nothing kills you anyway, but just gives you a blast. Karthus thinks he is helping by killing people, but he understands that he kills. Mundo does not comprehend that concept. All he knows is that getting a cleaver shoved in your stomach is fun for the victim.

HonestJohnTheCon4 votes

Mindset beyond our understanding that wouldn't be considered evil on another person. You'll notice that the most "evil" champion on the Nonstandard list is Aatrox, and he kinda just shows up turning the tide of battle. Kind of a jerk move to the other side, but we still have no clue why.

Kog'Maw might not even understand what he's doing, but what he's doing is fundamentally destructive. He's put in T9. I stand by that logic with Mundo, but I put him in T8 because someone better than the doctors who raised him could have prevented his current logic.

CleverCactus6 votes

Nautilus definitely belongs in vengeful, not nonstandard. His entire goal is to find the people who left him to die.

Blood Mefist5 votes

Why is Kayn Kayn not Determined/Vengeful but Zed is? Isn't Kayn just using Rhaast as a means to an end, that end being to further the Order of Shadows' agenda?

AirKingNeo4 votes

How is Urgot evil exactly?

Warlord Dienekes34 votes

Well, stealing life support you don’t need to turn yourself into a tech monster and laughing as those you robbed die usually pushes you out of the “neutral” alignment.

Warlord Dienekes5 votes

I don’t believe a cybernetic eye or leg consistutes as life support.

But yes of the Guardians Rocket in the movies is portrayed as a bit more immoral than the rest. Excepting maybe Drax.

HonestJohnTheCon5 votes

Take your average Noxian's philosophy and mix it with "pain makes worth", and you have Urgot's line of thinking. While he does have a point -- having strength and resistance to pain can make one strong -- he is the sole arbiter of "strong" and "worthy". And unlike the Noxians, who think that the strong-willed should thrive while the cowardly fail, Urgot will KILL everybody who he believes is not worthy, and just for that reason -- he thinks they are not worthy to live. Mass murder kind of qualifies as evil, even if the message makes some sense.

Lõyalty3 votes

I disagree with Lissandra placement into the evil category. Most of those champions in those categories kill/destroy without a reason. Lissandra doesnt, she has a reason. If the pieces of her lore are put together, the whole reason she wants to freeze the entire world is to bring things back to the way they were when she was young, and bring the watchers back to their former glory, which she considered to be the "golden age" of rune terra.

HonestJohnTheCon14 votes

In my opinion, she sold out her tribe to a group of eldritch beings for power, and the Watchers more or less enslaved the Iceborn. She enjoyed their reign, but she's basically for the mass enslavement of humans all over Runeterra, which puts her at odds with preeeettty much everyone except Trundle and the Watchers themselves. As Master Kusho said: “Good and evil are not truths. They are born from men and each sees the shades differently.” Even if she thinks the Watchers' reign would be beneficial for Runeterra, I doubt that many other people would see it that way.

Beyond Legends6 votes

Correction the Iceborn are created by the watchers. They demanded worship sure, but which god hasn't? Also killed for not looking human enough, in eldritch abonimation culture is consider a dick move.

Kaeblen2 votes

all that means is that she is a well written character with normal human motivation.

Even if your end-goal is "good", being willing to kill that many people makes you "evil".

ULTRAF0RCE3 votes

Rakan probably would be a better fit for Neutral the only thing he is determined about is to be with Xayah which is overall a neutral goal.

MihneatheMaster2 votes

Why isn't Gangplank in the questionable?

HonestJohnTheCon4 votes

The thing that separates Gangplank from the mass murderers in the questionable tier (Katarina, Talon, Draven, etc.) is that while they are doing it because of duty, GP is doing it because it's quick and profitable. He also CARVES THE BONES of the people who disobeyed him, killed MF's family and almost killed MF because they didn't fork over two guns, and was bad enough that the gangs of Bilgewater would rather be quiet than answer to him. He inspired fear in pretty much everybody. He's probably one of the most realistic villains in the champion roster.

Birdie Sànders2 votes

And how is Kled questionable

HonestJohnTheCon3 votes

Kled won't bother anyone... provided they stay off his land (which is everywhere). And even then he'll send them away and only ravage them if they don't listen.

Also, given how he's kind of a folk hero of Noxus, and most Noxians are questionable...

Kirbanator2 votes

you missed KogMaw and listed Fizz twice.

I'd also like to make an exception to kog. now don't get me wrong, he's doing some very wrong and extreme things. But compared to every void related champ, even rek'sai, he has one thing that others don't, Innocence. Whether it's due to his age or primitivity, he seems like he has no idea that anything he does is wrong.

There is a reason why people compare him to a puppy, because from things like his VO, lore, and to some extent his skins, he seems to be acting on instinct rather than just evilness. Going back to rek'sai, i understand why you would try to group her with kog given her lack of dialog and primitivness, but it's because Kog'maw can "speak" is why he's different. I'd like to imagine Rek'sai as a wild preditor, always using actions and just killing to protect thier domain. But Kog because we can hear his thoughts, seems more like he's trying to defend himself in a strange world.

In conclusion, while i do understand that because he is voidborn that he may be irredemable, i personally think given his vo and lore, he's misunderstood and like a lost animal that's trying to get by doing what he only knows how.

HonestJohnTheCon4 votes

What are you talking about? Kog's right there, and Fizz is only there once...

WORKING SO FAST THAT NO ONE WILL NOTICE

Kirbanator2 votes

So, you group kog'maw based on runeterra's views of all voidborn. I get why, but it feels a little mean to Kog, it's kinda like grouping all of a certain animal species even if there are a few docile and domestic breeds. I'll admit that kog kills, but aside from the nomads in his lore, he really doesn't seem as bad as every other voidborn. But since this is your discussion, i would like to hear your reasoning, keep in mind, i'm a very dedicated Kog'maw fan.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Kog'Maw's kind of a lighter shade of black than the other voidborn. Tier 9 seems to be raising a lot of trouble as is anyway. The thing is that even though Kog'Maw probably doesn't know what he's doing, he's still destructive, and needs to eat to grow up into... what, exactly? A voidborn that IS very evil? Who is daddy?

I understand that Kog'Maw's not that bad of a voidborn, but remember he's drawn to Malzahar, who IS a very potent, insane, and destructive force. What will happen when Kog finds Malzahar...I can only imagine.

I understand your viewpoint, but I'm probably going to leave him in T9 until he gets a lore update. HOWEVER, if you manage to convince me, I might move him to T4, because he really is kinda cute.

Kirbanator2 votes

Ah yes the malzahar link. I agree, HE IS INSANE. But that's not really fair to combine someone's morality to another. Kha'zix is drawn to rengar, and you don't see rengar in tier 9. I judge Kog'maw on his actions and morals by himself, until we get a new update on him, he'll continue to search for him. I think his vague lore and VO really don't put him on the same tier as cho, kha, or even rek'sai. He's destructive sure, he has a "dad" who may be evil ok, but all of that is not clarified. What we do in fact know is that he has limited intellegence, a goal to survive and find malz, and explore the world to do so.

As a final point, all i need to remind you is his dance and his monarch and pug'maw skins. Is that the face of a irredeamable killer. [sg-kiko]

Tentacle Love2 votes

"The time of man has come to an end" - Blitzcrank Instantly slams the lawful good button.

Jinx Literal translation of Harley Quinn - and you label her questionable morality? Jinx is evil, man. She ain't on the same level as Twisted Fate. She walked into a free, neutral city filled with potential and said F this town and brought it below livable conditions. That ain't neutral on anyone's scale.

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

Blitz's new lore. His quotes are outdated. Same with Orianna and several others. See my other list, Tier 3, for clarification.

How did Jinx bring Piltover below living conditions? All she's doing is blowing up authorities' quarters and annoying the heck out of rulers of Piltover. If you're talking about Zaun, Zaun was like that before she came around. Piltover's fine. Also, it's outright stated by a Rioter that she's chaotic neutral.

Tentacle Love1 votes

{quoted}

Also, it's outright stated by a Rioter that she's chaotic neutral.

I do not accept anyone's statement of D&D alignment as morality. D&D's alignment system is based off of saturday morning cartoon good versus evil concepts and fails at the slightest hint of grey morality.

Yes, that includes my humorous mention of Lawful Good for Blitzcrank.

You use D&D alignment to describe any character? the entire argument is null and void.

To one person, chaotic neutral is "I drove 1 mile per hour above the speed limit! fuck da police!" To another, chaotic neutral is The Joker killing and eating the dead bodies of everyone in Gotham City because he "wants mayhem."

You need a better grasp of morality than that if you want to be taken seriously. That morality system has been the source of the most hotly debated arguments amongst all nerds for decades. You're not winning any arguments by oversimplifying it now.

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

OK. Ignoring that part of my argument -- which I admit was not a good response -- the rest of my argument is pretty reasonable.

She did not bring Piltover below living conditions, she mostly blows up buildings from time to time (although doesn't care for those caught in the crossfire). In fact, her motivation could just be due to an obsession with Vi. She's more like the comic book Joker (the one that doesn't ever really kill anyone) than Harley Quinn.

Tentacle Love1 votes

{quoted}

She's more like the comic book Joker (the one that doesn't ever really kill anyone) than Harley Quinn.

Are you sure about that?

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

[slayer-jinx-unamused] Can you just answer my argument in its entirety rather than just trolling me by using my lack of comic book knowledge against me? I might not be an expert on everything, but I know the lore pretty well, so give me an answer instead of constant pointing out my screw-ups.

For real though. I like pointing out logical fallacies as much as the next guy, but you're using the straw man too much -- you're ignoring my argument and attacking my intelligence on morality and comic book knowledge.

Tentacle Love1 votes

Well to be more specific, the version of the Joker that you're thinking of, never really existed in the comic books until they were heavily censored by the CCA. You're probably thinking of the Joker from Batman: the Animated series, which incidentally enough introduced Harley Quinn.

Comic book joker has killed many people, including two robins. After the CCA was gone, the Joker was finally able to be "his true self" again because the writers for DC (all of them, no lie) could finally turn him back into a sadistic murder clown.

Jinx is a chaos fueled person who dresses in a style very much influenced by Harlequins. She uses bombs, guns, and unleashes mayhem.

Shaco, for comparison, is a chaos fueled person who dresses in the style of a court jester. He uses knives, and kills people.

Jinx absolutely causes more terror, more destruction, and without a doubt more murder. You have made the argument that she is less evil because she doesn't care about the people she kills. They're just collateral damage.

This does not make her less evil. It makes YOU more evil.

Shaco is comparable to the Joker. Jinx is comparable to Harley Quinn. But they are not analogs for one another. Jinx does not use giant cream pies, big boxing gloves, or other non-murderous items in her mayhem sprees. She uses literal military grade hardware. There is no doubt that she causes death.

I call into question your decision to say that Jinx is less evil than Shaco because she's only concerned with Mayhem. She's a literal terrorist with literal military weapons on a literal rampage, last I checked.

We haven't seen a music video for Shaco where he rides a nuclear bomb Dr. Strangelove style into the heart of a city in order to kill hundreds of thousands of people. The image of Jinx is pretty clear. She's evil.

If you believe that Jinx is less evil because she kills MORE PEOPLE, you've literally taken to heart the teachings of Joseph Stalin, which is a horrible mistake. He said, Kill one person, you're a monster. Kill thousands, and it's just a statistic. This is a terrible platform for your argument and I hope you're not that kind of person. I would say I know you're not that kind of person, but... it's 2017. I hate that I've been wrong about those sorts of judgement calls.

There is no better comparison for Jinx than Shaco. They are equally crazy, equally murderous, they dress in styles influenced by similar fashion senses, but she is more lethal because she has guns and bombs. You could say that it's the hardware that's scary, not her, but really? Do you not think that Jinx could use a knife if she wanted to?

I'm heavily implying here that your decision to call Jinx less evil is because of sexism. There are many worse things that could be said.

But I'm calling it sexism. You, like many people, are not capable of seeing her as "equally evil" to him. I'm saying it's because she's a woman.

Think about it. She doesn't even have boobs. She might be transgender. And without any evidence to the contrary, any champion in this game might have any kind of genitalia, or no genitalia at all. You've never even seen behind Shaco's mask, and have no clue what he is, if he even is a form that can be a he. Shaco might be a woman.

Would shaco be less evil if he/she/they were perky? If he/she/they danced and sang while killing people? If he/she/they used a gun? I don't think so. But you're welcome to disagree.

HonestJohnTheCon3 votes

Uh, NO, I have no IRL respect for what Jinx does, and if someone did what Jinx does in real life, I would NOT back it up. Shaco's more or less a demon, and probably not human. Also, he deliberately targets people and has malicious intent. Jinx has no malicious intent, except towards a select few, like Vi. She's just doing because she's having fun, and while that doesn't excuse her, it's implied that she doesn't even kill people often in Paint The Town and only tries because she's on a hedonistic streak. And calling me a sexist? Low blow, my dude. Maybe if you looked at my champion profile, you would have noticed that I was a Jinx main at some point, and if anything that's what I'm biased about.

Insulting people's personal values and morals for what they stated in an argument about a FICTIONAL CHARACTER isn't smart, isn't even proper logic, and won't win you any friends.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Shinjrou2 votes

I highly disagree with Lissandra:

"Back then the Frozen Watchers lived here. I do not know where they came from, but I know they were powerful. They gave us gifts, shared their magic, made us immortal. They named us 'Iceborn'."

"In return, we gave them whatever they desired. This mighty fortress, a vast empire, our loyalty, these were a small price to pay. Avarosa did not see it that way. Like a spoiled child she cried out for freedom. She demanded choice. She sowed the seeds of rebellion and betrayal." -The Seeker Tale

So, as you can read, she is loyal af to the Watchers, and if she needs to murder, literally change the history of the Freljord to bring them back (they don't sound all that bad come on), I can't see how she is EVIL, I'd move her in "Determined / Vengeful" ("For Determined champions, the ends justify the means.") or "Questionable" ("These champions aren't evil, they might not even be villains, but their acts are definitely morally gray.").

Edit: Also, if spending centuries on your master plan is not considered determination, I don't know what else is lul.

Epicurus1 votes

Ummm... Anivia is responsible for burning Ornn's house down, and she never confessed to it. She is Irredeemable.

In seriousness though this is a fairly comprehensive list, but I would suggest a couple of changes. Kayn: I don't see Kayn as any more evil than Zed, so I'd put Kayn in Tier 6 or 7. He did kill that acolyte in the short story, but honestly thay dude was pretty annoying, so I'm not holding it against him. Jax: What is so non-standard about Jax? He seems pretty neutral to me. Sion: Sion is a precious kitten that must be protected, but the nasty bird-man Swain brought him out of retirement to use him as a battering ram. Nasus: Nasus was perfectly happy to let Xerath annihilate the people of Vekaura until Sivir called him out on it. He certainly was a hero in is prime, since then he has become more morally questionable.

HonestJohnTheCon3 votes

Meep.

Also, you're right about Kayn, putting him in questionable. Forgot to move Jax, so you're right there. When I talk about Sion, I talk about his champion form; which, due to his resurrection, he's kinda evil and unable to reasoned with. I blame the bird. Nasus had a job to do, and he didn't even know Xerath was there until he found Sivir and Taliyah (call me out on this if I'm wrong). Plus he actually stepped up to the plate and tried to kill Xerath (which didn't work at all). Maybe he didn't go for Xerath because he knew how futile it was?

Zyranium1 votes

Since when Zyra only wants food ?

She is in a human body now, the ancient Zyra was a predator yes, she still eating food and feeding on her preys, but she is a sadistic predator, she likes lashing and lacerating people, her lore is pretty outdated, but Zyra is a vengeful predatory plant monster.

You can't put her with Rek'sai and Kog'maw because their only purpose is to feed, and Zyra isn't about just feeding on her preys, she's sadistic for sure, she's sneaky, cruel and she adores playing with her preys.

There is a neat difference between feeding on people because you need to, and feeding on people because you want to. She is in a human body she don't need human flesh anymore.

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

I wanted to put her in Irredeemable, but the community got salty and asked me to change her. She's an interesting case...

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