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Sliding Scale of Champion Lore Update Necessity

HonestJohnTheCon··40 votes·2,136 views

This is essentially a tier list of how much certain champions need a lore or VO update. Please note that everything below is in my opinion, and if there is some lore that I didn't notice about a champion, be sure to let me know in the comments. Also, you may notice a "^" after a champion's icon. This means that I have a comment for those particular champions. Note: Champions must have an updated lore post-retcon in order to qualify for Tiers 1-3. Most champions that have no updated lore post-retcon are Tier 4. #Tier 1: Modern These champions have been updated or were already at modern standards for lore, and their VO reflects it extremely well. There are some things that we don't know about these characters, but it's often a way to help preserve their identity through mystery. The list includes mostly new and recently VGU'd champions, but there are a few that Riot has updated completely. The Tier 1 champions are: AurelionSol Azir Bard Camille Ekko Evelynn Galio Gangplank Illaoi Ivern Jhin Jinx Kalista Kayn Kindred Kled Lux Maokai Ornn Poppy Rakan RekSai Ryze Sion TahmKench Taliyah Taric Urgot Vi Warwick Xerath Xayah Yorick #Tier 2: Fleshed Out These champions are generally three-dimensional and have a solid theme, but something is lacking. It's usually that the VO has too few lines explaining the champion. Typically champions from regions with updated lore but an old VO fall in this category. The VO also has to make sense; for champions whose VO does not align with their lore at all, see Tier 3. The Tier 2 champions are: Caitlyn Cassiopeia Darius^DrMundo Draven^Elise Ezreal Fiora Garen Graves Hecarim Heimerdinger^JarvanIV Karthus Leona Lucian Mordekaiser Nami Nasus Pantheon Quinn Renekton Rengar Shen Shyvana Sivir Skarner Thresh TwistedFate Vayne MonkeyKing Yasuo Zac Zed Ziggs^ Comments (^): These champions' lore in themselves haven't been updated and are still old; however, new comics (Blood of Noxus and Paint the Town) show lore about them, so they can be considered Tier 2 rather than Tier 4. #Tier 3: Contradictory VO These champions have received a decent amount of love from the lore, but their old VO's make absolutely no sense at all. They might be completely contradictory to the character of the champion. Champions in Tier 2 and Tier 3 generally don't need updated lores, just updated VOs. The Tier 3 champions are: Ahri Amumu Blitzcrank Diana Janna Jayce MissFortune Orianna Rammus^Viktor Comment (^): Rammus's VO is iconic and kind of part of his identity, so one could argue that he belongs in Tier 2. However, I still want to hear different inflections of the word "ok".

#Tier 4: Outdated These champions haven't had lore updates since the retcon, but it's still not improbable for them to exist given what we currently know about lore and setting. The bulk of champions from outdated regions (Noxus, the Freljord, Bandle City, parts of Ionia, etc.) are here, as well as few others that weren't included in the regional updates. The Tier 4 champions are: Aatrox^Akali Anivia Annie Ashe Brand Braum Chogath Corki Fiddlesticks Fizz Gnar Gragas Jax Karma Kassadin Katarina Kennen Khazix^KogMaw Leblanc^LeeSin Lissandra Lulu Malzahar MasterYi^Nautilus Nidalee Nunu Olaf^Riven Rumble Sejuani Shaco Singed^Sona Swain^Syndra Talon Teemo Tristana Trundle Tryndamere Twitch Udyr Varus^Veigar Velkoz Vladimir XinZhao Zyra Comments (^): The champions that are marked with ^ have no post-retcon lore directly, but are mentioned by more recent/updated champions' quotes or lores. For example, Rhaast points out Aatrox and Varus, Kha'Zix has a run-in with Rengar, Olaf was in Shadow and Fortune, LeBlanc and Swain were involved in Sion's resurrection, etc. #Tier 5: Incomplete These champions have are involved with some part of other champions' lore that invalidates their current lore completely. All of these champions are commented on. Some need a lore update as soon as possible to avoid conflicting evidence, and some just don't fit in at all. Many of these champions are in line to get a VGU soon. The Tier 5 champions are: Alistar: We know the Great Barrier still exists. But what are the Minotaurs? Why did they have a run-in with the Noxians? Did they ever have a run-in with the Noxians? Irelia: The Noxian invasion of Ionia is still canon, so her entire lore isn't invalid, but her bond with Soraka (see below) is what makes her lore awkward. Kayle and Morgana: They're angels that fell from the sky. Seems a bit random, hopefully their VGU will remedy their past. Malphite: His entire lore is very similar to the start of Ornn's, only with less explanation and reason for existence. Nocturne: He's the Demon of Fossbarrow from For Demacia who seems to prey on mages, insecurity, or both. OK, fine, but his current lore needs to be updated to reflect that. Soraka: Her old lore was that she was tricked by Warwick and fell from the stars, and now Warwick wants to eat her heart. Fair enough, but now Warwick is VGU'd, leaving her in perhaps the most urgent place for a lore update on this list. Volibear: Ornn's lore invalidates his current lore completely, and I shouldn't have to explain why. Zilean: Why does he even exist? What did he ever do? Why does he have no relation to anyone (other than that troll interaction with Volibear, who (see above) also needs a lore update)?

Thanks for reading this wall of text, I hope a lore Rioter sees this and takes note on which champs I think need to be updated on the Universe page. If there's anything I missed or you have a problem with my rankings, let me know. Also, tell me if I should do more Sliding Scales in the future on various lore-related things!

  • Helixarrow

TL;DR Tier 1 - Is in a great place with lore, no update required. Tier 2 - VO needs lines in addition to the current ones that already exist. Tier 3 - VO partially or completely invalidates champion lore, although the lore itself is fine. Tier 4 - Needs a lore update, but overall thematic and story is fine. Tier 5 - In dire need of a lore update for them or other champions to make sense in-universe.

48 Comments

Valor Bot9 votes

I wouldn't consider Quinn modern in terms of VO. For one, she doesn't have any champion-specific interactions in game, which is a standard for every new or VGU'd champion (aside from those who don't speak like Rek'Sai or Bard). Likewise her VO lacks reference to the most important character in her backstory: her twin brother Caleb. Compared to modern champions, her VO is just too short and not very in-depth, in spite of her updated lore.

Good list though, everything else seems pretty damn spot on and I'd love to see updated voices for older champions like Janna and Miss Fortune.

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

I didn't expect this coming from Valor Bot of all people.

...anyway, yes. Looking at her quotes she's with Elise and Yasuo (the high side of T2), so you're right.

Man I suck at this. :)

Valor Bot4 votes

Not at all, your list is extremely comprehensive and in-depth! Certain champion mains just have this highly annoying tendency of picking apart the smallest thing involving their favorite characters...

[sg-kiko]

Beyond Legends2 votes

Well it's kinda strange caleb was never mentioned in her VO, because caleb dying that part her charaterization has been with her from the start.

SzGamer2274 votes

Soraka: Her old lore was that she was tricked by Warwick and fell from the stars, and now Warwick wants to eat her heart. Fair enough, but now Warwick is VGU'd, leaving her in perhaps the most urgent place for a lore update on this list.

Thank god this has been bothering someone besides me.

Warlord Dienekes3 votes

Petition to move Diana down to tier 3. In game she comes across as an angry revolutionary psychopath. In lore she’s pretty subdued and kind of wants peace or at least to be left alone to do whatever it is she thinks she’s doing.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Hmm. I just read her quotes and thought "moon", but after listening to them, I realize that the tone makes it come off much darker. I'll move her down.

Sancre3 votes

Trundle did get lore update when he got updated himself, now instead of a troll with great regen that holds the rotting curse of his whole troll clan, he is an ice troll that made a pact with the Ice Witch Lissandra to be able to get the true ice club called "Boneshiver", managing to become a troll king and also being part of Lissandra's faction

While it was pre retcon I think, he is perfectly fine related to current Freljord Lore. Its not like he can be much more with how unresolved that Lore was left

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Freljord lore is in a weird place. It was updated right before the retcon but still sounds like it would make sense. I still think they need an update, as their lores aren't as long as Pilties or Demacians. Trundle's lore himself is the same.

Beyond Legends2 votes

Both Shen and Fiora are tier 2 in my opinion, both of them still uses haven't gotten the a VO and still uses their old one.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

I was under the impression that they got VGUs, I double-checked and you're correct. I'll move them down to T2.

Epicurus2 votes

I'd put Corki all the way down at Tier 5. Aircraft do not exist in Runeterra, so that's Corki's whole theme invalidated.

Also I think Nami could be moved up to Tier 1. Her voiceover is short, but still captures her personality and story quite well.

Rek'sai _has _ received the short story Sai Kahleek since the retcon. She doesn't have an expanded bio, but given her unique character (being a true monster rather than just a talking non-human) I think that is acceptable. She should be at least Tier 2.

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

Sure, it's been pretty much confirmed that aircraft don't exist for humans in Piltover (or anywhere else), but I think that using yordle tech he could pull it off. Rumble did it with his mech, making it fly with a charm or two wouldn't be that difficult.

Alongside Lux and Miss Fortune, Nami has probably gotten THE MOST bonus lore on Universe, and the only reason why I hesitate to put her at Tier 1 is, like MF, her voice over only captures a part of her character. Nami's VO captures her outspoken childish side, but not so much of her bold adventurer that she's becoming. The one that stood in front of a village full of flaming pitchforks without fear? THAT'S the one I want to hear more of in-game.

I'm not too familiar on Void lore, and you're right; Rek'Sai is a mindless monster. If there's one thing I've learned about doing these, I should look through EVERYTHING, lest I miss something. I'll bump her up.

EDIT: I looked at Rek'Sai's quotes, and they're a bunch of horrific snarls, which is exactly what we're looking for. She's now at the very queen-like Tier 1.

Epicurus2 votes

I don't doubt that Corki's aircraft exists in some form in Runeterra. But Corki being a veteran of an entire airforce of flying Yordles is the bit that doesn't sit well with me. I just can not reconcile this with what we currently know about Yordles and Bandle City. But it's your list. You can put him where it feels best for you.

Beyond Legends1 votes

Well Bandle city is still very unexplored right now, we know that it's very hard for human to locate but out side of that we don't know much.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

I don't doubt that Corki's aircraft exists in some form in Runeterra. But Corki being a veteran of an entire airforce of flying Yordles is the bit that doesn't sit well with me. I just can not reconcile this with what we currently know about Yordles and Bandle City. But it's your list. You can put him where it feels best for you.

Can we have blimp/zeppelin warfare?

Even from piltover?

Epicurus1 votes

I don't remember any blimps from new Piltover lore, although it is certainly possible with hextechnology. Blimp warfare is a bit far fetched though. Who is Piltover going to fight? Who is Bandle City going to fight?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Piltover could fight Noxus with it. We know that Noxus is trying to conquer Piltover.

Peridition2 votes

I think Hecarim is borderline level 3. His quotes don’t contradict his character, but this is only because his lines are so generic. Given all the lore updates he’s received, his VO doesn’t really convey his treachery, arrogance or lust for glory. He’s also missing very key interactions with characters like Kalista who are central to each other’s lore

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

The problem here is, Hecarim's treachery, arrogance, and lust for glory were all part of who he was IN LIFE. He and Kalista lost all memories of their former selves when they got killed by the Black Mist. That's also why he doesn't have any interactions with Kalista. His current quotes make him sound like a commander of the Mist or something, which he is.

GreenLore1 votes

Lucian & Yasuo both have lores that are pretty much confirmed to be still canon,so I dunno if they shouldn't be in Tier2(as Tier2 also includes champs who still don't have a full bio and color story)

Also Amumu & Rammus do have updated lores. Sure they don't explain who they are,but they still explain their place in the world,so I'd say they should be at least Tier3.

And last but not least I think that Annie should be Tier5.Her current lore still mentions the voodoo lands and it was said that the voodoo lands would either be renamed or completely retconned.

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

You're pretty much right on Yasuo, and I guess it's only fair to move Lucian to the same place where Thresh is. I'll fix that right up, I wasn't exactly sure where the retcon was. I'll give you Rammus and Amumu, as mystery is a part of their identity. Annie I'm keeping at Tier 4. Voodoo Lands aside, I think it's perfectly reasonable that a girl with immense magic power related to fire was raised by two mages in the distant wilderness, which is essentially what Annie's lore is. Names of places are, in my opinion, completely inconsequential.

iLBGAMing1 votes

Riot forgot about my favourite Darkin Varus item 3070

Whyte Lyon1 votes

Since the primary cause/ motivation for any older champ to receive lore updating is dictated predominately by another champ's relaunch or less likely but still possible is if a new champ is released.

So here is my own slightly separate Tier (think of it like between 4 & 5) for champs whose lore is still horribly dated and have no predictable chance at receiving lore any time soon:

Alistar Annie Brand Fizz Gragas Nautilus Nidalee Zyra [Kassadin Malzahar]

Obviously the only chance those above could have is relying on the tiny spark of hope that a possible new champ has a connection to one or more of them. Other than that, the Narrative team would need to do a spontaneous LU for them, unfortunately that has yet to be practiced.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

I could see Kass and Malz getting an update along with the Void, but other than that you're pretty much right.

Whyte Lyon1 votes

Yes well so can Fizz and Naut be potentially updated if another Bligewater related champ was released, however there is still no grantee that they would be updated. From an outsiders perspective it would make sense that they would be but still, it all depends on circumstances and those circumstance are very unpredictable.

So I apply the same pessimism to both Kass and Malz.

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=TTbf8xg0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-22T23:53:58.771+0000)

Since the primary cause/ motivation for any older champ to receive lore updating is dictated predominately by another champ's relaunch or less likely but still possible is if a new champ is released.

So here is my own slightly separate Tier (think of it like between 4 & 5) for champs whose lore is still horribly dated and have no predictable chance at receiving lore any time soon:

Alistar Annie Brand Fizz Gragas Nautilus Nidalee Zyra [Kassadin Malzahar]

Obviously the only chance those above could have is relying on the tiny spark of hope that a possible new champ has a connection to one or more of them. Other than that, the Narrative team would need to do a spontaneous LU for them, unfortunately that has yet to be practiced.

And what about VGUs?

Whyte Lyon1 votes

What about them... I need more context dude.

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=TTbf8xg0,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2017-10-23T03:46:18.083+0000)

What about them... I need more context dude.

No context.

Since the primary cause/ motivation for any older champ to receive lore updating is dictated predominately by another champ's relaunch or less likely but still possible is if a new champ is released.

Hence, if a hero gets a VGU -they get a lore update. Many of them still NEED VGUs. You just wait, and they'll happen. That's why I'm not worried about them in the slightest. Though as you said with Malzahar -if the hero belongs to a larger batch, that is one way a bunch of related heroes all at once. Alistar is not tied to anyone, so he won't get updated lore in a say, X new champions release or Y champions release until the lore team comes up with some stuff to attach him to. He can still get a lore update, but I think it will wait until he gets a VGU himself. And that will happen for those champs.

:|

Basically, I'm not really worried about them. I'm worried about other things.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Well, unless we get towards the end of the lore updates and Riot decides to do the rest to put Universe out of beta. That's my best hope, but either way they're gonna be stuck for a while.

Wrathof3001 votes

Irelia and Rumble imo, should be moved to tier 4. Irelia was saved by Soraka, unless Soraka gets new lore that contradicts this,the state of Soraka's lore shouldn't have any effect on Irelia's lore, because as far as we know Soraka is in Ionia helping people (the circumstances may be different but until otherwise stated a certain bit could taken as canon). Heimerdinger and Ziggs ran a shop in Piltover so how is Rumble 's lore contradictory to that?

Skarner has updated lore, so he should be in either tier 2 or 3.

Question: Alistar, I'm not aware of him of him making an appearance elsewhere to contradict his lore and how is Amumu's VO contradictory.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Irelia's getting a VGU soon, and if Soraka's getting a lore update, then her powers change, and it probably wouldn't make sense for Irelia regardless. Rumble, I guess Heimer and Ziggs running a shop is their own problem, so I'll move Rumble to T4. Skarner I guess will go to T2. Alistar doesn't make an appearance anywhere that his lore is contradictory, and neither does Zilean or Malphite. The reason why he is in T5 is that he DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. He legit has no reason to exist and doesn't impact any other champions. My main problem with Amumu's VO is that in lore, he seems sad because he knows he can't have any friends, as he will accidentally kill them with a touch. His VO appears to make it like he doesn't know his harmful effects on people, and thus wants friends anyway.

Wrathof3001 votes

I see your point on Irelia.

The Noxians give you 2 options join them and served under the Noxian flag, or die. Alistar's lore aligns enough with this imo, the Noxians wanted their land, so their was conflict. Unless the Great Barrier is no longer on 'Valoran'; but rather in Shurima, since it was next to Targon on the old map, its entirely possible it still is on the new one, which is too far away out of Noxus' reach, which would be a better reason for why his lore wouldn't make sense opposed to the fact its a stand alone. You're right on Malphite, other worldly lores, should be considered tentative until updated/ recent.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

Irelia's getting a VGU soon, and if Soraka's getting a lore update, then her powers change, and it probably wouldn't make sense for Irelia regardless. Rumble, I guess Heimer and Ziggs running a shop is their own problem, so I'll move Rumble to T4. Skarner I guess will go to T2. Alistar doesn't make an appearance anywhere that his lore is contradictory, and neither does Zilean or Malphite. The reason why he is in T5 is that he DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. He legit has no reason to exist and doesn't impact any other champions. My main problem with Amumu's VO is that in lore, he seems sad because he knows he can't have any friends, as he will accidentally kill them with a touch. His VO appears to make it like he doesn't know his harmful effects on people, and thus wants friends anyway.

Are Minotaurs Vastayah?

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

No, a Rioter confirmed that the Minotaurs (along with Soraka and a few others) are not Vastayan and still exist. They just haven't taken a solid direction on the Minotaurs yet, which is why he's at Tier 5.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

No, a Rioter confirmed that the Minotaurs (along with Soraka and a few others) are not Vastayan and still exist. They just haven't taken a solid direction on the Minotaurs yet, which is why he's at Tier 5.

id like to know who else isnt vastaya

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Xayah, Rakan, Ahri, Rengar, Nami, and Wukong are vastaya. Soraka, Volibear, Alistar, and Trundle are not vastaya.

"Alistar is a minotaur - a race which likely evolved separate from the vastaya even if they are sometimes confused by outsiders." - Vastaya Q & A

Fairyfleur1 votes

Orianna's voice lines simply make no sense and, while some are okay, most need to go.

Zyra's VO is good but not modern compared to the likes of Taliyah, Camille, Ornn, etc. Her lore is also awfully outdated and she has no real interactions with any other champions.

Friendly Ram1 votes

this is a really nice list.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

I personally think that MonkeyKing needs more then a VO update. while that would good enough on its own, his new lore is still lacking in some areas. It did a great job for what it was made to do (Get him to fit in the world and give an idea of what his goals are), but it left way too many questions. The first issue is how he doesn't really have a real plans and its just him and Master Yi traveling round trying to find something to fight for (which feels a bit like Riot didn't really know what they wanted to do with him yet but needed new lore for him, so they ended with that to stall for time). The other issue and the one that really bothered me was how it not only didn't give a solid idea of how strong Wukong is, but made it feel like doesn't have actual clones anymore as he is using straw dummies.

Sure, a full on new addition to his lore is asking much considering there are a lot of champs/regions/ champs in regions that were updated but were passed up who haven't been updated (and the problems I mentioned are more nitpicks as it's still a very solid foundation for Wukong) , but at least a short comic or something to that degree. He's supposed to be part of a magical human/animal faction who have abilities ranging from stealing essence to having magical feather daggers, yet he feels like one of the weakest characters in the lore right now.

mkyner1 votes

Isn't Malphite the big creature that Lux is fighting in the Elementist video? I don't think that would change what tier you placed him in, but he does have at least a cameo in more recent media.

Blackstone011 votes

No indication that it is Malphite, and I think the "lore" for elementalist Lux is a future what-if. Most skins aren't "canon" to the main League canon, instead being their own alternate universe (like the Battlecast skins, Star Guardian skins, etc.)

Blackstone011 votes

I don't particularly see Zilean as a Tier 5. Sure he could use an update, but his current lore doesn't contradict anything. The Rune Wars are still canon, and Vel'Koz is hunting him down for his magic. And some of Zileans old lord (like how he made the time bubble for Kalamada) is removed.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

Singed got his lore updated, And shares a story with the new Warwick. While i'd love some singed lore i think knowing so little allows us to imagine it however we want and i fear riot would turn him into a lunatic.

I'm all for extra voice lines for him though. I has to be the original actor though, the voice is just toooo good.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

yasuo? Thresh? Lucian? Ashe? Braum? Gnar? They all feel like they should be in higher tiers

Ok I NEED someone to explain to me WHY Minotaurs are not part of the vastaya. 1st that fact doesnt make much sense, and 2nd it makes things REALLY unnecessarily complicated: Like vastaya are a wide ranging class of fauna that have humanoid and animalistic characteristics and additional have the capacity to have a wide range of magical abilities...ok can someone tell me how a Minotaur that can heal allies at range doesnt somehow fit the bill for that definition is some way. And then explain to me what the reasoning for removing the Minotaur from the vastaya list, might as well remove Rengar too.

An idea that I like for Volibear is one that incorporates both past and "current" versions: Volibear is the name/title given to the leader of the Ursine that most closely resembles the being that they revear. the Current "Volibear" being a seer could be channeling the power of the REAL Volibear (demigod or what ever), this way both can still exist, tho i'd like to see his abilities reflect the more "mystic" avatar part of him and not soley focus on the animal part, he is after all an intelligent being.

MaidensKnight1 votes

ZileanZilean is mentioned in Vel'kozVelkoz short story. Vel'koz had found the destroyed city of Urtisan , Zilean's home and found his workshop of sorts. He now wants to disintegrate Zilean to gain his knowledge . He still needs an update since the story states he left recently. That leaves the question of where Zilean had gone?

LUXANNA HOSHIDO1 votes

I lol'd at the Zilean one

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

Can't Killean the Zilean

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