Ahri isn't any less special for being a vastayan than Lux is for being an animal

yay nibbers·Apr 9, 2017·41 votes·3,475 views

Humans are all animals alongside things like fish and birds. Ahri and some others are, in the same respect, all vastayan. The notion that she's somehow less special because she shares a very loose, high up classification with champs like Wukong or what have you is silly. Ahri is special because of her unique lore and tragic backstory. Here's something to help illustrate my point:

Here's , she's an exceptional light mage beyond the scope of anyone Demacia has seen. She's pretty special!

Here's , she practices a mysterious magical ability to weave the very stones of the Earth itself that she herself doesn't fully understand. She's pretty special!

Here's , she's a fox who discovered an affinity for the magic surrounding her. On a stroll one day she found some human souls and turned into a (almost) human! She's pretty spe- WAIT! Sorry, she shares a very loose label with a small handful of other champs, she's not special anymore.

See how silly that sounds?

This applies to all the other newly dubbed vastayan champs as well.

37 Comments

TyrekGoldenspearApr 9, 201722 votes

You're completely correct. However I have a theory for the backlash, one I would like to reiterate.

I see a similar situation with Viktor's lore update that had his fans all riled up, and we all remember how that went.

I believe that the causes of this backlash are the same: They were generic yes, but not to the eyes of the fans, they were alive and real to them and the lore update threatened to make them into something that they were not thought of as before.

Unique yet Generic

Here's an explanation. Say that I'm an Ahri fan. Besides her vague origin story and her defined motivations, she's almost a blank slate in terms of the deeper aspects of her personality. I could imagine her as a seductress, I could imagine her as a struggling monster trying to be human, I could see her as a famous popstar in Runeterra. What Riot has given her before was generic yes, but they gave her enough detail so that she seemed real to her fans, and her genre appealed to many varied people, so this is partly why:

A. She has such a large and varied fanbase. A champion like Camille is very defined personality-wise and lore-wise, so only people who identify enough with her will main her. (After her nerfs). Ahri on the other hand isn't as defined, so her mains and fans fill in the gaps how they want to, and she has just enough detail in her lore to fit snugly with their headcanon and work.

B. Her fanbase is quite concerned for this lore update, because it threatens this relationship between being generic and unique.

However the tool Riot has used for her uniqueness is unstable, and it is what you mentioned.

Unique Only in Name

It's pretty obvious by now that Ahri's only special because of her looks and her uniqueness via rarity, but if we dig deeper we see her story arc is quite common. If you want to see another champion in the game that struggles with her humanity, look at Shyvana. If you want to see another protector, look at Ivern. If you want to see another attractive champion, look at Evelynn.

Yes, she takes all of these traits and puts a unique spin on them, but save Evelynn (who's getting a rework anyway), take these traits away and look deeper then you have a blank slate.

Ivern is the most heartfelt example of redemption and penance I have seen. He was a bloodthirsty marauder who learned the error of his ways, forced to come to terms with all the suffering he caused and spent years upon years in emotional turmoil and wonderment at the value of life, and lives now to spread life, no longer to bring destruction to it. From his VO and his lore you can see his personality.

Shyvana's lore has come out recently, so I imagine it's all still fresh in the mind, but her lore and color story show her personality well.

Ahri doesn't have anything yet, but what comes out can conflict with the headcanon of many varied fans; this lore will make her more defined and more unique yes, but the result will end up pushing some mains away.

But yes, being labeled a Vastayan will not make her any less special. Surely her fans want her to have a family.

yay nibbersApr 9, 20178 votes

To be fair, any character can be considered generic when you boil them down to the tropes they're made of. Sharing some things with other characters doesn't make a character generic on its own, execution is important. Ahri's character arc, vague as it may be, combined with her other aspects are what make her unique. Yeah she shares the struggle with humanity trope with Shyvana, but their specific stories are much different and have them go through different, unique struggles. I don't see how being attractive makes her less unique.

As far as her character goes, you're right in saying that she doesn't have much of it. What's really sad is when they announced her (since canceled) statue over a year ago, they actually included a short story about her that did give us a look into her current personality. Sadly, for whatever reason, when they took down the statue's announcement page and replaced it with the "we're sorry for screwing her face up" page they took the short story with it. It's still on the League wikia, but on her official Universe page it is not. For now, we just have to wait to see what any lore updates bring for her.

Ark SorcererApr 9, 20175 votes

The word you are looking for is Archetypes. I think most of the champions in this game can be put into a archetype and thus lose their "Uniqueness" before they are even released.

While it would be nice to get a sense of Ahri's personality, knowing where she is coming from gives me more than enough to get ideas of where she will go. Then I can take a route I personally like more and go with that. In my opinion, I am a little afraid of what Riot will do because it could make one of the few possibilities Ahri could be invalid.

Say I want to imagine Ahri trying to be human and having that struggle while carrying the theme "What it means to be Human" but the official lore says she is just as seductive and demonic as ever but she can show kindness at times in certain occasions. I then lost the connection Ahri.

Or if it was the other way around, I would have lost the much more interesting, not main character "protect everyone, do good and blah" vibe but indulging on what you want to do. Making things vague to where we get a sense of direction but do not have a defined path can be good.

TyrekGoldenspearApr 9, 20174 votes

Making things vague to where we get a sense of direction but do not have a defined path can be good.

This right here is where I beleive one of the major reasons for Ahri having such a fervent fanbase originate.

Ark SorcererApr 9, 20172 votes

Agreed. I played her before I read her lore but I liked what I could imagine with her.

rtbf225618241Apr 9, 20171 votes

Pretty sure most of us imagined the same thing...

yay nibbersApr 9, 20172 votes

I see what you're saying about her vagueness playing to people's imaginations. It leaves you something to think about and that's fun in itself and I totally agree. The only issue with that is it makes it hard for Riot to do anything with her. Like I mention, pretty much all she has on her Universe page is a short backstory. Granted, lots of champs don't have much more than that, but when the Ionia lore update comes around I'm sure people wouldn't want her to just sit there collecting dust.

Personally, here's how I see her situation:

What we have of her lore now, her backstory, it already steers her to the more moral side of things. It states explicitly that she has reservations about taking the lives of others to fuel her transformation and feels regret at doing it in the first place. However, there's still room to blur the lines, and if you read the story they included with the announcement of her statue they do just that. [If you want to read the story, check it out here under "Stray Fox"] In the story she encounters a group of Noxian soldiers attacking an Ionian village she had been admiring, presumably for some time, and she ends up getting in a scuffle one of them. When she takes him out with her fox charms, you see her making excuses to indulge in the pleasure of taking his essence, but stops herself because she knows what the villagers would think of her if they caught her.

Even with that story though, we don't see her expressing her personality a lot. All we really know is she longs to be a human and live a normal peaceful life among them. Personally, I'd really like to see Riot bring back that story into canon and work on her from there. I think the struggle against the monster inside to find belonging with others is an excellent way to take her that leaves lots of room to make her both an endearing character but also one with a wobbly moral compass.

jama655Apr 10, 20171 votes

unique yet generic Yorick

AbiwonKenabiApr 9, 20178 votes

I'm no Ahri fanboy, but the reason I personally am not a fan of the Vastaya label on Ahri is that it throws her entire backstory into question. She was a normal fox who started to gain humanity through absorbing souls; the more she absorbed the more human she became, but also the worse she felt about it.

From what we know so far about Vastaya, they are born like this. So it puts Ahri's original story into doubt. Until we get more info, I think it's reasonable to at least be a little worried.

yay nibbersApr 9, 20179 votes

I thought the same thing at first, but we actually don't know that they're all born with their humanoid shape, just that they're magic and descend from shapeshifters. Even that's essentially hearsay, a legend passed down among a single vastayan tribe that was interviewed by one explorer.

Ahri was never a "normal" fox either. In fact, the first two sentences in her backstory suggest the opposite.

Unlike other foxes that roamed the woods of southern Ionia, Ahri had always felt a strange connection to the magical world around her; a connection that was somehow incomplete. Deep inside, she felt the skin she had been born into was an ill fit for her and dreamt of one day becoming human.

Unless they more specifically define the term 'vastayan', which I personally understand to be more an umbrella term for magical creatures (especially humanoids), she can still have her old background while still being classified as a vastayan.

The Last BalladApr 10, 20172 votes

Especially how Rakan and Xayah talk about how they can "hear the magic", which to them takes the form of a song, and their mild confusion/wonderment(not entirely sure how to classify it) that humans cannot hear it.

Fondling GemsApr 10, 20171 votes

There was a confirmation from a Rioter on the PBE discord server that Vastaya translates roughly to "Magical animal" So pretty much any magical creature falls under the very broad spectrum that is Vastayan. Technically humans are animals so they could very well fall under it too for all we know. Perhaps any animal that is mixed with magic falls under Vastaya, regardless of how they are mixed with the magic.

We just see the evidence mostly in the human/animal hybrids in the world so that is what we think of Vastaya as. The reality could be much broader.

ExcessiveProtestApr 9, 20176 votes

Can't speak for anyone else, but here's my problem with it: the semi-uniqueness was vital to making the old lore work. Ahri wanted to become human because humans were the only people around; there was nobody else (except maybe Wukong) in Ionia, so it was either kill humans to become human, or stay in the forest forever.

Now she's a Vastayan, though. There are others just like her around, so why does she want to become human? Removing the isolation factor undermines the core motivation of becoming human, and with it, the forced conflict of killing, and being driven away, to maybe be accepted eventually. Instead of an internal struggle, it looks like she's abandoning the Vastaya and trying to become human because they're cool or something.

Sure, they might fix it in a week and a half (or a year and a half, as much as they've improved, Rito's lore-updating record isn't exactly reassuring), but I'm struggling to see any way to make Ahri's lore of trying to become human work when there's suddenly an entire civilization exactly like her.

yay nibbersApr 9, 20173 votes

By this logic, why not just go back to being a fox? She's already abandoning what she believed to be her kind to be human "because they're cool or something." This is of course just oversimplifying her motivations, she doesn't just think "they're cool or something." They life sort of life she wants to live herself and be a part of, something she can't find anywhere else. How would this change just because there's other vastayans out there?

You're also assuming the vastayan have their own whole unified civilization when just the lore journal posted a week ago suggests otherwise, or that they have any civilization in the first place. All we've heard of so far is a single small tribe of otter people. Not to mention the term "vastayan" itself is very loosely defined. There's vastayan that, from what I could tell, may as well just be weird magic monkeys. It's suggested they could be so vastly separated from each other that they could compare to each other in the same way a human compares to a fish. Ahri could well be the single unique vastayan of her kind, or perhaps there are other magic foxes but she wants something different for her life, but in either case she'd still be vastly different than any other vastayan out there. She can still have the same character arc with the same motivations and the same wants as before, all that's changed is the category of living being she happens to fall under.

Giving her a new label doesn't have to change her iconic character arc. Unless they drastically change her backstory, which they don't have to considering how loose the 'vastayan' label seems to have been set up to be, she's still exactly the same character everyone loves.

ExcessiveProtestApr 9, 20174 votes

Like I said, before the Vastaya were created, there was nobody else. There were humans, and that's about it, as far as Ionia was concerned. I highly doubt anyone would want to be a mindless animal, even if the process were reversible. Unified culture or no, the existence of Vastaya wanderers and tribes, who are willing to welcome and talk to a wanderer from Piltover (until he does something stupid), would be far more lileky to let in another type of Vastaya than the humans that were formerly the only group around. That was one of the main parts of the Stray Fox story they released; Ahri wanted to join the village and leave isolation, but was afraid of them finding out how she became semi-human.

In short, giving her a new label does, in fact, change the character arc, because if there's multiple groups of similar people, some of whom are even friendly to humans, her entire struggle of having to kill humans to become human to join the humans to not be isolated is completely undermined by the fact that, at any time, she could look for a friendly Vastaya group instead. There is no longer any significant reason to become human, since it is far more difficult and painful than the alternative of looking for Vastaya, who can't be too isolated of a random wanderer from Piltover can blunder right into them.

I'm oversimplifying her motivation because, as it stands, she has no compelling motivation. She wanted to join humans because she was alone, but to do so she had to kill the people she wanted to join to take their essence. Now she's nowhere near as alone in the first place, but still feels compelled to do something she hates, to the point where multiple generations of Vastaya are warning travelers away from her, despite lacking a significant motivation in the new lore.

yay nibbersApr 10, 20171 votes

Here's another issue with what you posit, you assume some Vastayan tribe will even accept her. You mention the vastaya who warned the explorer about her, who's to say they aren't afraid of her themselves? Using the same logic though, why didn't she just find a friendly human village to accept her before? There's bound to be one out there, especially considering just how human she already looks.

Also, vastayans are mostly definitely rare and hard to find considering we're only just now finding enough to bother labeling them as 'vastayan'. It took an explorer happening upon some to even confirm that they're a thing. Even he himself notes that he was very lucky to happen upon as many as he did (which was only three different kinds not including Ahri and we don't even know if one of them was even intelligent). Vastayan groups and tribes are most likely few and far between, and while they may be friendly enough to answer the questions of a stranger they may not necessarily be as welcoming of one into their tribe Especially if they're known manslayers like apparently Ahri is.

To add on to my previous point on how rare they actually are: Among champions right now, newly dubbed vastayans and the two newcomers, I can think of 5 obviously vastayan champs off the top of my head (including Ahri). That's less than 4% of the champions in the game, and I'm sure you're aware that champions are themselves supposed to be rare, exceptional specimens so it's lucky we even have that many.

In short, you're just assuming a lot of things with no real basis and in some cases even against what's been explicitly stated (particularly the rarity of vastayans and even tribes of them). To apply Occam's Razor, she's likely just as alone as she's ever been. We have no reason to believe the Ionian woods are suddenly teeming with vastayan peoples and tribes. Considering the way they've been introduced to us, AN EXPLORATION JOURNAL THAT EXPLICITLY STATES THAT THEY ARE VERY RARE, it's much more likely that the opposite is true.

And so I reiterate: "Vastayan" is just a broad label, absolutely nothing has to change.

AbiwonKenabiApr 9, 20174 votes

That's a good point. Even if her lore remains the same, it's possible all the themes behind Ahri's lore would be completely shifted. It makes her out to be a lot more selfish and less sympathetic, in my opinion.

NineTailedMysticApr 9, 20175 votes

I'm trying to hold my peace until we get her new full lore, but there's a potential to have a lot about her current lore not make any sense anymore, or overall make her less appealing lore wise.

I like Tyrek Goldspear's comment about how we have a rough idea of how she's like, without her being completely defined. It gives us freedom to envision her how we like. While she could use some improvement, at least giving more of her personality, I feel she doesn't need that much to be a successful character lore wise as is. Everyone has their own image and ideal for Ahri. I won't define mine personally, but ask any Ahri main about what they'd want Ahri to do or be about and you'd likely get incredibly varied answers.

But Ahri being Vastayan has the potential of her being...shunted out of the spotlight, so to speak. How do we know there aren't more fox Vastayan like her? Xayah and Rakan are basically two pieces of Ahri already with Rakan having her iconic Charm CC and Xayah looking very similar to her physically excluding the wings. On top of this, it really removes her isolation. Being a fox turned human and moreso with taking life essence from others really gave her no options in being able to approach anyone. She wants to take life to become more human, but doing so wracks her conscious that she even gained from taking humanity. In her Stray Fox story, she took the life of the Noxus captain because she didn't mind taking the humanity from men who had no use for it.

She yearns to be part of a human community, but if she's Vastayan, why? She had people who wouldn't shun her. Xayah would probably accept her if she didn't want to become human. Who knows if she's even a humanoid being born from a fox transformed anymore.

There's a lot of potential, both good and bad. But until then, us Ahri mains will have to fear the unknown.

yay nibbersApr 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

She yearns to be part of a human community, but if she's Vastayan, why? She had people who wouldn't shun her. Xayah would probably accept her if she didn't want to become human. Who knows if she's even a humanoid being born from a fox transformed anymore.

This assumes being with other vastayans is even an option. You can tell just looking at her she's considerably different than others, she's basically a woman with animal ears and tails tacked on. She even has a reputation among at least one family of vastayan that happen to know of her that she's a man-eater (whether or not she's stopped/trying to stop), who's to say other families or tribes don't also know and maybe even fear her? Not to mention how rare vastayans in general are supposed to be, even if they don't fear her or anything who's to say she has many options to begin with?

As far as just acceptance goes, Xayah doesn't really need to because it's already suggested that she's friends or otherwise has some relation with Wukong. Just being friends with someone isn't her goal. You can still have friends of your own kind but want to be part of something else.

Personally, I just think people aren't thinking enough about this or are reading too much into stuff that isn't there. I don't see any reason to believe Riot has any reason to change her drastically just because she has a new label. I don't even see how the League universe has changed with the introduction of Vastaya. It's like discovering a new, extremely rare animal in the wild: nothing about the world has physically changed, only our knowledge has. They even presented the vastaya to us in that exact way with Santangelo's research journal. I think if more people thought of it like that they'd be less worried about everybody's new status of being vastayan.

As far as Ahri's character and personality, I'm not sure I agree that leaving her vague is the best way to do it. While I can certainly see the appeal in leaving her to everyone's imaginations, I also think it's lazy writing that restricts her narrative potential. I'd rather have a character that's empathetic and relatable because they're written well rather than have a character that's relatable or endearing because I had to fill in their missing character. Having a defined character would open her up to actually having some good lore and story participation, whether that means she has her own stories or is interacting with other characters. A big issue with everyone having their own version of Ahri in their head is few people will be agreeable to any stories involving her that they put out that actually demonstrate her character at all (a thing that tends to happen when characters interact with each other).

I go into more detail in my response to TyrekGoldenspear's comment that you mention, but I think there's already a solid foundation for a good, relatable character that I'm sure everyone including her varied fans can enjoy. Riot's writer just have to finally do something with her.

Personally I don't think there's anything to fear as I don't believe we've been given any reason to. We have to wait and see what Riot decides to do with her, if they even touch her lore any time soon. She's been sitting around in narrative stagnation for years while the champions around her evolve despite being one of the most popular characters in the game, it wouldn't surprise me if she keeps doing that even through an Ionia lore update.

NineTailedMysticApr 10, 20171 votes

As far as just acceptance goes, Xayah doesn't really need to because it's already suggested that she's friends or otherwise has some relation with Wukong. Just being friends with someone isn't her goal. You can still have friends of your own kind but want to be part of something else.

This one irritates me right here. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing that links Wukong to Ahri, and I feel as if they only have each other listed as "friends" solely because they thought "We can't have her with zero friends or rivals, just put down the other animal person from Ionia there". All its done is spur a shitty ship.

Personally, I just think people aren't thinking enough about this or are reading too much into stuff that isn't there. I don't see any reason to believe Riot has any reason to change her drastically just because she has a new label. I don't even see how the League universe has changed with the introduction of Vastaya. It's like discovering a new, extremely rare animal in the wild: nothing about the world has physically changed, only our knowledge has. They even presented the vastaya to us in that exact way with Santangelo's research journal. I think if more people thought of it like that they'd be less worried about everybody's new status of being vastayan.

If she is Vastayan, it could change her quite a bit, whether it be her methods, motivation, origin, or likewise. I can't say much about the League universe, as the only lore I ever cared about were Summoners and Ahri's lore, but I would think it changes quite a bit. Nidalee is likely Vastayan as she changes shape like the merchant, possibly born from Vastayan and Human blood, albeit diluted. Rengar and Wukong are likely Vastayan now, being full on anthropomorphic animals like the otter people. There might be a tribe of Rengars now for all we know. Ahri might be a pure blooded Vastayan, no longer originating as a magically inclined fox. It might add a whole new faction to the world, if I'm perceiving Xayah's motivations right.

As far as Ahri's character and personality, I'm not sure I agree that leaving her vague is the best way to do it. While I can certainly see the appeal in leaving her to everyone's imaginations, I also think it's lazy writing that restricts her narrative potential. I'd rather have a character that's empathetic and relatable because they're written well rather than have a character that's relatable or endearing because I had to fill in their missing character. Having a defined character would open her up to actually having some good lore and story participation, whether that means she has her own stories or is interacting with other characters.

Ahri's character and personality could use something, I mentioned that in my previous post. However, I don't feel that she needs to be part of a grand, overarching plot be it a minor arc involving Ionians or something global. I personally like how she doesn't interact with other prominent characters or in a larger plot. At best, other characters would have fleeting encounters with "The Fox of the Forest". Maybe she does her best to help travelers gone astray, all from out of sight. Maybe she defends her home from dirty Noxians, using their life essence to fuel her humanity as she deems them unfit. Her interaction should be minimal. It's entirely possible to portray her struggles, personality, and overall character when she's all by her lonesome, or just ever so slightly out of sight.

A big issue with everyone having their own version of Ahri in their head is few people will be agreeable to any stories involving her that they put out that actually demonstrate her character at all (a thing that tends to happen when characters interact with each other).

Well, that's the difference between canon and headcanons. A vague canon lore makes her hard to work into the overall lore, while being very malleable to be worked with inside of the player's head. However, a very well developed and specific canon makes her brittle and hard to work with the player's imaginations as its much harder to not shatter her character.

[...] but I think there's already a solid foundation for a good, relatable character that I'm sure everyone including her varied fans can enjoy. Riot's writer just have to finally do something with her.

The thing is, is that Ahri and her fanbase are very...volatile. She has one of the largest player bases in the game. One poorly crafted remark, an off handed comment in poor taste, even just one wrong move can serve as a very potent catalyst. Can you imagine if they gave Ahri a relationship that implied even the slightest hint of romance? A large portion of her fanbase would implode and collapse upon itself. The backlash would be insane.

Personally I don't think there's anything to fear as I don't believe we've been given any reason to. We have to wait and see what Riot decides to do with her, if they even touch her lore any time soon. She's been sitting around in narrative stagnation for years while the champions around her evolve despite being one of the most popular characters in the game, it wouldn't surprise me if she keeps doing that even through an Ionia lore update.

I think I have a lot to fear, myself. If this lore update turns me off from Ahri, I really don't have a reason to play League. It would be a shame, as I still enjoy the game, unlike all the complaints on these boards. But again, any updates for her have the potential to be good or bad.

I apologize for the wall of text, but as you can imagine, I'm very passionate about Ahri.

Ark SorcererApr 9, 20172 votes

In my opinion, I am uninspired to care about Riot's lore for League, characters are fine though. They have screwed up the lore when they got rid of summoners being cannon, yet have champs who still acknowledge summoners via their dialogue. From there on, Riot has been a mess with their lore. I mean, the champion lore since Ekko, maybe a little bit before, have been good. Great even. Book quality. But the lore in itself is uninspiring.

Now I think Riot is just putting things together to make something of it all the while alienating the fan bases some players have for their favorite champs. I know the character lore for a lot of champions and reading the changes seems very, very... very dumb at times.

Riot is recreating the lore for League, which can both ways. It allows them to be more unified yet throws off the people who do pay attention to it.

I read somewhere Demacia has so little magic in the kingdom they actual fear it and will sometimes rationalize it. Don't ask me about Lux, the Lady of Luminosity. Or how they makes any sense. Few magic in the world, Ionia acknowledges it existence but Demacia does not? Okay. Sure. Whatever. EVERY champion from Demacia better have AD scaling and no AP. I don't care about you being hated and feared Galio, get out.

I will give a look at some of the champions personal lore again and see how stupid it has become. If there is a change that makes them a new classification, who cares. Ahri is Vastyan or whatever? Cool. Whatever that implies. Ahri is still a sexy, powerful, seductive, mage vixen who I like playing.

Until Riot release a mode where characters lore actually plays apart in battle-- say Noxians deal bonus damage together when attacking the same target, MF and GP have some ratio changes in their ults to the other specifically, Ashe and Sejuani have something going on, Kat deals less damage to an enemy Talon, Kindred gains 3 stacks from killing anyone from the Shadow Isle, Ahri's charm last longer on a Nidalee, Rakan blocks 5% of Xayah's oncoming damage, Tristana gains vision Teemo's shrooms... (Add this now)-- I don't see a huge reason to care.

I mean, I get it. Some people are into the lore and don't want to see change but if they do, they do not like what the implications are with a term and then applies to their favorite champion. If I were to read Ahri's lore, some 2 dozens years from now, and see what she is, I may view her in a different light and have less of a connection to her. That is something to fear, yes. And I do like Ahri, both her vague but directional lore and her game play (not her play rate though. Wish that would drop so I don't have to fear a rework with her sticks tongue out)

But I guess I should try to get into the lore so someone at least tell me what the term "Vastayan" means?

Not a negative post or anything. Just a comment.

EDIT: Yay, 17 downvotes for... my opinion. Awesome.

yay nibbersApr 9, 20176 votes

If what I collect from WAAARGHbobo is correct, vastayan is a new class living, magical beings. WAAARHGbobo compares them to normal life in that magic is to them what water is to us. More basically, from what I can tell, it's just a label for magical creatures, often humanoids with varying degrees of animal features.

To me, though I could be wrong, it's a similar idea to what they call Yokai in Japan. A blanket term to refer to a ton of mythical creatures of many unique descriptions and abilities. Pretty fitting considering Ionia's Asian inspiration.

Ark SorcererApr 9, 20172 votes

That Yokai reference made way more sense to me then the first paragraph. If that is the case, okay, fine, Ahri is one. I guess Wu is as well. I have read Swain is one as well. Soo.... how are Lux and Taliyah one? Are they different in more ways than they just control some element?

You are informing about the lore so you are my only source of info for now.

yay nibbersApr 9, 20176 votes

Oh no no, I'm not saying Lux and Taliyah are vastayan or anything, I have them juxtaposed with Ahri to make my point. Lux and Taliyah are both human, but their being human, or more broadly animals, doesn't make them less special or less unique because of it. It would be silly to consider Ahri less special for essentially the same reason, just replace "human/animal" with "vastayan."

I'll admit my first paragraph there wasn't very well articulated, but it's not the easiest thing to articulate. Life as we know it all needs water to live in some way. It's a very useful molecule that's employed in many ways, one of the easiest to visualize being our blood which we use to transport nutrients and such to the cells of our body, and we are in fact mostly made of water as are most animals and plants and etc. We need water to live because it's such an important part of how we function. WAAARHGbobo explains in comments found elsewhere in the Story, Art, & Sound board that Vastayans are similar but make use of magic instead of water. Where us as humans are comprised mostly of water, vastayans are made up of magic and sustain themselves with magic. Magic gives them life in the same way water gives us animals life. It's kind of hard to explain and I admit I don't know how to better explain it than this. It's basically a fancy pseudo-scientific way of saying "they're magical creatures". I hope it helps, and even if it doesn't realize that these details aren't really that important.

Papa AndreiApr 9, 20174 votes

So your post boils down to "Wtf is a lore and why should I care" and "I speak for everyone, but new lore sucks and makes people feel left out."

You say that the lore has been worthy of books, yet you say its uninspiring. That is literally the opposite of what you said.

In game characters with voice lines that haven't been changed in 5 years don't follow the retcon of 3 years ago? OH NOOOOOO. Jesus do you know how much it would take to get them to utterly redo 100 or so champions VO?

Riot is making a cohesive and vibrant world. How does tha alienate players? You say you don't care for lore and neve have, who are you to speak for us? And how the hell is the lore dumb at times?

With MOBAS there is this tiny little concept called "champions don't counter champions" hence why little small things, no huge gameplay changes are made cause of the lore. The game itself== the lore of the world. That is a simply fucking idea that shouldn't have to be explained.

You complaon about Demacia lore, yet you said you didn't even read it. If you had, you would know Lux keeps her powers hidden, and only a secret group in the govt know about it. And Galio comes alive once every like 400 hundred years, because he is a sentient rock of preticite (which absorbs magic.)

Demacia knows fucking magic exists, why do you think tey buolt their godamn city with MAGIC absorbing stone?

If you don'tcare about the damn lore don't comment. And for your own sake, don't play Dark Souls, you may have to go a psychiatrist after dealing with their lore.

Ark SorcererApr 9, 20174 votes

Mate, you are taking things way out of context. I was speaking for only myself. I did type "I" did not care for the lore. I spoke for myself and no one else. That is number 1. So I do not speak for anyone, as say your "I speak for everyone, but new lore sucks and makes people feel left out". As for why should I care: it is personal. The same reason why I tried to get info on the world in the lack of story Destiny. To get invested into the game. Lore is never needed for a MOBA. This isn't a console game that makes you go through a story. It is a PvP game. As to your "Wtf is a lore" bit I don't think I ever complained that is didn't exist, just that it was falling apart.

Number 2 is that there is character lore and there is world lore. I said character lore is "book quality" as of late but the world lore is a mess. If you paid any attention, I said the lore became a mess after the removal of summoners being cannon. The voices were a proof of times of old. While I have not played all 100 + champs, the number of champions that actually says "Summoner" is low. On the top of my head, I can only think of Miss Fortune and Nocturne to acknowledge summoner's. (I would include Lux but she had some change or something so I am no longer sure).

Number 3: Making a cohesive world. Thanks for acknowledging that it was not and has yet to be cohesive. If you payed any attention, it alienates the fan bases of certain champions. Champions lore has been X for years. People who love that champion have become used to the lore of said champion. With champions lore being redone, the players will have to accept the new changes to a champion they have loved and enjoyed for however long.

Number 4: I stated a reason why I do not care so much is because the lore does not affect the game. I gave an example in which it would: Riot makes a mode where personal lore does. I did not suggest it and said Riot should (except with my Tris sees Teemo's shroom joke where that would get ride of shrooms as long as we have a Tris.) make such a mode. Of course lore shouldn't be involved in the game because that would make a apparent edge that one champion can have over another.

Number 5: I didn't "complain" about Demacia's lore. I merely stated an example of a shift in the kingdom. Lux is an example a champion lore change. Thanks for providing me an excellent example on how Riot alienated the player base of Lux (to a degree). Lux went from top tier child prodigy, showing off her powers and what she can do with it to having to hid it. ... Okay. That changed happened. And I know for a fact I read that magic is rare, not none existent. So rare that Demacians will rationalize it a magically event they have seen. Otherwise, rare enough to fear it.

Number 6: I have no clue how you imagined my tone, but it was not critical, negative, or toxic. I was sitting back just merely mentioning my opinion in a calm manner, spewing what came to my mind as I typed. So while there could be some contradiction in me saying how I do not care for Riot's lore than proceed to say the Champion lore is fine, get the picture that I am not arguing. I am given my opinion with some evidence to support it. Ex. I like Sprint. Why? Because X Y Z. I did not say Sprint is better.

Number 7: Calm down. I have not sweared once in that post and there was no need for you to be some aggravated in your approach. I don't have to care to give my opinion. If that is the case, I would only comment on changes to champions that are getting a buff and could be a problem say Lux and her 10/20/50% cdr on her ult if she gets a kill or item changes in the mid season, because that impacts the game. I would not bother with people who complain that marksmen are weak, provide a clip of their game, only for me to pay attention and see what the issue at hand was and proving them wrong.

Number 8: Next time, I will word my comments better. Make "I don't care" to "I am indifferent". Maybe that would help you better find my tone on the topic.

Calm down and stop getting over aggressive in your response. Like I said in the last two sentences: "Not a negative post or anything. Just a comment."

ModKnightsKemplarApr 9, 20172 votes

So, summoner's are still canonical. They hinted that they are bringing them back in, just so you know.

As for lux, the fact that she has to hide her magic in Demacia is a HUE part of her lore. Pretty much her whole identity.

Since you clearly haven't been paying close attention lately, maybe hold off on the detailed analysis for now.

Ark SorcererApr 9, 20171 votes

I wasn't analyzing. If I was, I wouldn't have mentioned anything because I don't know the hard underlying info, I only know the surface. I was giving my opinion and gave evidence so it did not come out as me complaining.

The Last BalladApr 10, 20171 votes

I read somewhere Demacia has so little magic in the kingdom they actual fear it and will sometimes rationalize it. Don't ask me about Lux, the Lady of Luminosity. Or how they makes any sense. Few magic in the world, Ionia acknowledges it existence but Demacia does not?

If you read the lore, Damacia now lives in a giant forest of tree's that dampen magic, have their capital surrounded by magic dampening walls(made from the trees) and is protected by anti-magic weapons, armor, and giant statues( Galio , who has been around for such a long time that his coming alive and being animate has passed into legend a few times over)

Their founders were chased and nearly killed by a troupe of sorcerers, and that paranoia fell down throughout the generations. To Demacians, magic is a corrupting force that will convince you to commit acts unspeakable. And it isn't even like this isn't backed up by their history either.

The _continent _ of Ionia on the other hand has spirits out the wazoo, and has a higher concentration of ambient magic than the continent of Valoran(Damacia, Noxus, and maybe shurima if memory serves right. Possibly Piltover/Zuan and Fijord. But Ionia has always been separate.), most likely due to those anti-magic trees soaking up everything.

Ashe and Sejuani have something going on

[zombie-brand-facepalm] http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_for_Freljord This has been going on for a while...

Ark SorcererApr 12, 20171 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_for_Freljord This has been going on for a while...

That specific comment of Ashe and Sejuani was when I made up a mode where the lore interacts with the in-game.

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=p1BcNz5m,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-09T17:20:59.162+0000)

Until Riot release a mode where characters lore actually plays apart in battle-- say Noxians deal bonus damage together when attacking the same target, MF and GP have some ratio changes in their ults to the other specifically, Ashe and Sejuani have something going on, Kat deals less damage to an enemy Talon, Kindred gains 3 stacks from killing anyone from the Shadow Isle, Ahri's charm last longer on a Nidalee, Rakan blocks 5% of Xayah's oncoming damage, Tristana gains vision Teemo's shrooms... (Add this now)--

I am fully aware Sejuani and Ashe have a fight going on. I read both of their lores so many years ago. I did not know what I wanted Ashe and Sejuani to have a bonus of when fighting so I just said vaguely "have something going on."

CaptJayceSparrowApr 9, 20172 votes

I mean, she's technically classified as Vastayan, but she wasn't born that way. If anything this adds hope to her story that she has a group she can fit in with as opposed to being isolated from all of Ionia. Even offers chances at stories of Vastayans not accepting her for being the product of magic as opposed to born that way. To be fair I have been on the bench a long time but I'm excited for the lore expansion this race will bring and I'm glad that Xaya looks as fun as she does to play.

KoKobotoApr 9, 20172 votes

Meh who cares just a sex-fox or in other words "voluptuous fox woman" - Eduard Santangelo

Prophet of UrgodApr 10, 20172 votes

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Weight of LawApr 10, 20171 votes

the only person with a tragic backstory as far as I know is Urgot in the new rework

MeliodäsApr 9, 20171 votes

Ahri as Vastayan is non-unique. However she isn't vastayan, she's just kitsune and no, vastayans and kitsunes aren't the same, so stop with it. thanks.

ScatterBotApr 9, 20176 votes

Wasn't Ahri confirmed as a Vastayan? Or atleast everyone sees her as a vastayan

yay nibbersApr 9, 20177 votes

Don't be stupid. Ahri is not a kitsune, she's based on the kumiho of Korean legend (granted, very similar creatures), but she's actually her own creature in the League universe. How can you have that name "Snow Day Ahri" and not know this?

If we're going to call her a kitsune though, kitsune are just one of many forms of Yokai, a broad term refering to many of the mythical creatures of Japanese legend. Ahri is a vastayan in the same way a kitsune is a yokai. To compare her to regular humans, Ahri is a vastayan in the same way a human is an animal. It's just a classification, a broader umbrella she happens to fall under.