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Lore inconsistency list

Opop··15 votes·5,683 views

In light of recent developments I decided to make a small compilation of issues (namely contradictions) that exist in the current lore as a result of ''newer releases'', if you guys find anything please add in the comments because the last time I re-read the lore was a while back 2018:

1: Noxian update: -Sion Part 1: Sion's short story (In the Mind of Madness) mentions him knowing Boram Darkill personally in life (he was a close friend, as evident by Sion's quote ''Boram? Is that you?''), as you are aware, Boram Darkwill was not a long lived individual, and since Sion revived centuries ago, this can't be the case (in the old Institute of War era lore, Boram Darkwill was the long lived necromancer Grand General of Noxus, who personally ordered Sion's revival, post retcon, he became a mortal that wanted to extend his life, which was pivotal in ordering his troops to invade Ionia). Part 2: Sion's short story (In the Mind of Madness) mentions Swain ''wobbling'' in the battlefield assisted by a cane, this is obviously due to his old pre retcon appearance. Suggestion: Minor touch ups in the short story, remove the ''Boram? Is that you?'' line and replace it with something else, re-write the part about Swain using a cane. https://i.gyazo.com/89c857872b26aa051ba8f6d6eff43ef9.png (In the Mind of Madness)

2: Void Update -Nasus In this ''short'' story, we see the assault on a rebelling Icathia by the Shurimans, in this story the participating Ascended are led by non other than Setaka, in here, Setaka (and the rest of the Ascended) are killed instantly by the recently summoned Void In the Shuriman ''short'' story of ''Bloodline'' however, Nasus recounts a different series of events, namely he states that he ''held her as she died'' meaning not only that she wasn't destroyed by the Void, Nasus was present in that fight, which can't be the case because unlike every other Shuriman that was there, he didn't die. Suggestion: Remove the mention of Nasus being present in the day Icathia fell, and instead say that he went there to survey the carnage afterwards, or maybe he went there like the other Ascended did (to stop the void) and found the weapon. https://i.gyazo.com/3ec68fe7dcf0973d9c3548637708b9c2.png (Bloodline) https://i.gyazo.com/1939450c39c98a4a512ecb7a75857f3e.png (Where Icathia Once Stood)

-Renekton This one could just be because I'm misinterpreting information, however in his short story ''Darkness Renews'', it's mentioned that Renekton killed ''A Warrior King'' of Icathia and took his weapon as his own and then proceeded to crush his army, in the ''Where Icathia Once Stood'' short story however, it's stated that the last ''Mage King'' of Icathia was killed by the Ascended instead. Unless a ''Warrior King'' and a ''Mage King'' are indeed different things (with the Warrior King being under the Mage King) then there's an error in terminology used. Suggestion: assuming it's a mistake, it can be done with a simple change in either story, if it's not then there's nothing to be done. https://i.gyazo.com/3bce9ffd430131f337e2cdb223b57f90.png (Darkness Renews) https://i.gyazo.com/945b28f470d30d9de8b186dd897573bd.png (Where Icathia Once Stood)

3: Ionia Update -Jhin With the Ionian lore shift we learned a few things, firstly, Ionia doesn't have any centralized government, instead it has a series of villages, each with their own elders who act as guides for their own villages, secondly, Wuju (the swordsmanship school) existed hidden ''for centuries'' ''blossoming in isolation'' and it was only after the Noxian invasion that the Wuju people revealed themselves (and were promptly killed), as such, the lines in Jhin's lore that refer to ''Wuju masters patrolling the streets'' as well as the one about ''a cabal within the ruling council'' no longer make sense. Suggestion: In regards to the Wuju part, it can be fixed by simply removing the lines that mention them, as for the ''cabal'' it could be fixed by referring to the leaders of a specific village wanting to use Jhin as a weapon instead. https://i.gyazo.com/8b5fd9462386ff36eb09d5a727ecb577.png (Jhin's lore) https://i.gyazo.com/ba5f50d95feab7fa959f2c0d359deed3.png (Jhin's lore)

4: Freljord Update -The Howling Abyss Map Lissandra was released on 2013, at the time, the Freljord suffered a small revamp to take into account the lack of an Institute of war, as such Freljord content that was released at or before 2013 is likely to be changed in order to fit in with Lissandra's new lore,now in many cases (such as stories) this could be fixed with touch ups (which are currently underway) however, this is not the case of gameplay related content: many of the lines by the shopkeepers of the Howling Abyss map can't be true anymore, for starters, neither Gregor nor Lyte can actually be there since the area is reserved to members of the Frostguard, Lyte being a simple scientist is definitely out of the picture at least. But what is worse is the following lines by Gregor: -"The Seeker was a respected leader of the tribe, but some say she betrayed us... " With Lissandra's new lore, it was discovered by the contemporary Iceborn that she had indeed ''betrayed them'' to the Watchers, so this line is out of place -''https://i.gyazo.com/9df65bfef6ce9eea2d6dbcd98e0a0e6f.png'' Lissandra's lore states that she sacrificed her sisters and all the Iceborn present at the conflict to encase the Watchers in true ice, so his account of the story is wrong -''https://i.gyazo.com/693ca11632591f82c56191da27a71df6.png'' With Volibear's upcoming lore of being an ancient freljordian deity (which has been in the works since Ornn came out in late 2017), these lines that refer to him as a shaman are not longer accurate And this line by Lyte -"You look just like her... " Refers to the old Orianna lore in which the ''Orianna'' we play is a mechanical copy of the original Orianna that died, with the Piltover lore update of 2016 this is no longer the case, as she's now a human that slowly replaced parts of herself with machinery until she became what she is now. Suggestions: since it's costly to hire a VA to record a few lines, it's better if they are just removed https://i.gyazo.com/b68a6c933c35aade034d7156985c526b.png (Lissandra's lore) -Timeline issues When the Vastaya were introduced in 2017, we also learned about their origin, namely they were the result of ''crossbreeding'' between humans and an ancient spirit race known as the Vastayashai’rei. This happened because a group of humans fled ''The Great Void War'' to the Isles of Ionia. So this poses a considerable issue because Vel'Koz's lore states that up until Lissandra's betrayal of the Watchers, they hadn't intervened directly in Runeterra, we also know (according to Ivern's lore) that the Vastaya were already a thing by the time the Iceborn first rose to prominence (and Lissandra's lore states that it was trough the Watchers that that happened) So the contradiction is that while the Vastaya came to be AFTER the Great Void War, according to Vel'Koz's lore, the first time the void actually interfered with Runeterra was after after Lissandra's betrayal, which in turn according to Ivern's lore, means the Vastaya were already a thing Suggestion: Change Vel'Koz's lore to state that the Watchers had already influenced Runeterra, which resulted in the great void war. https://i.gyazo.com/001cc1402ba358edb354113547f050ac.png (Ivern's lore) https://i.gyazo.com/cb62b925172730cc0451fdc14fba13fd.png (Ivern's lore) https://i.gyazo.com/1b534f3003bffe3e22c2b0031b696b5d.png (Vastaya lore) https://i.gyazo.com/8dfb076e074cd4797e6920269291a8fc.png (Vel'Koz lore)

5: Kayle and Morgana's update With Kayle's latest lore it was stated that her appearance was used as iconography for Demacia's architecture, which is why there are so many statues of people with angelic wings, they are meant to represent Kayle and her symbol as a ''protector of Demacia''. In Quinn's lore however, it's stated that the reason why wings are prevalent in Demacian culture is because of the Azurite Eagles. Suggestion: in lieu of this https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/zsb53buk-kinda-confused-at-kayles-lore-in-relation-to-quinns?comment=0001, since Kayle's lore is the most ''recent one'' then like all the other cases what has to happen is that the older lore is to be conformed to the new lore, so the line mentioning the Azurite Eagles as inspiration for Demacia's icon should be removed. https://i.gyazo.com/990e783b8b31f25af300360987703f49.png (Quinn's lore) https://i.gyazo.com/200bb8aca25fb512cc83ebb5455a4b3e.png (Kayle's lore)

At any rate, most of the stuff here is easy to fix with some redactions, I'm not against new lore adding into the new canon, but I would like it if ''reasonable recent lore'' wouldn't be left out in the dust, specially because the issues I bring up here are about lore that is as recent as 2017. And again, I would greatly appreciate any more contradictions that you guys could find of this nature. Thank you.

24 Comments

4 Step Cadence5 votes

I've always been under the impression that each province of Ionia has its own government, and that they are all ruled separately from each other, rather than one large central one.

Valor Bot4 votes

since Kayle's lore is the most ''recent one'' then like all the other cases what has to happen is that the older lore is to be conformed to the new lore, so the line mentioning the Azurite Eagles as inspiration for Demacia's icon should be removed.

Actually the azurite eagle was used as a symbol within Demacia relatively recently in Sylas' teaser video:

https://imgur.com/a/mL3brmR

Could always just be that Demacia was inspired by both.

Opop1 votes

I was bound to miss stuff like this, appreciate it!

Vartius2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=hLyudjAy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-20T01:27:57.194+0000)

Actually the azurite eagle was used as a symbol within Demacia relatively recently in Sylas' teaser video:

https://imgur.com/a/mL3brmR

Could always just be that Demacia was inspired by both.

It could've been inspired by both... Except we know it's not because one of the writers said that "Quinn's lore is older, so..." and later added that she might just be mistaken. But obviously the latter is completely undone by the former. There is no actual explanation, the Kayle writer just didn't care about lore that was still relevant during Sylas' teaser.

GreenLore2 votes

Well given the comment its obvious that this was an oversight on their part, but Reav3 also said that Quinn might be simply mistaken, which given the fact that Quinns lore merely says that the azurite eagle is "said" to be the reason for the wings actually lines up with Kayles lore to some degree(unless Kayles myths are super popular in demacia).

Camille Ferrøs4 votes

This deserves more attention in order to be seen and fixed.

Opop1 votes

Thank you!

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

There is a strange one in the timeline for the Targon lores involving Pantheon and Leona. Which one could argue if it's an inconsistency or not, but is just strange.

Essentially, Leona fought Atreus sometime in her backstory. They are pretty evenly matched, then she gets taken by the Solari, lives their for years and becomes a guard to the Elders.

But in the Pantheon lore, the fight is never mentioned, but Leona is the leader of the Ra-Horak who control the defense of the entire mountain and has been doing so for at least a few years before Atreus' ascends. Meanwhile, Atreus himself has not yet come of age.

This would mean, either, Leona became the leader of the Ra-Horak when she was a child. Or Leona as a teenager fought Atreus when he was a child couldn't beat him. Which is kinda hilarious.

Opop1 votes

I went ahead and gave it a look to re-check it, but from what I understood it basically went down that Leona was accused of something by Atreus, then they fought and Leona ended up being taken by the Solari, years later Atreus asks for help from the Ra-Horak and under orders from Leona, they don't help. By that time Atreus was already an adult.

Neko Siren1 votes

....Who the fawk has this much time on their hands, and why are the 100's of Riot employees incapable of doing what this single person just did... holy shit.

Opop1 votes

I was kinda bored and my classes only really started this week so not much stuff to study haha

Stars Shaper1 votes

The symbol of Demacia crest and its architecture might have had multiple inspirations and Quinn living in a mountain region could have learnt of the eagles instead of the Protector. It also might be that Demacian saw in the might eagles a resemblance with Kayle.

Also worth noticing that even Galio appearance is actually inspired by Kayle figure and armor, something that is visible if you check Kayle neckguards going down from her helm and the decorations on Galio's.

Opop1 votes

Well currently in his lore, Galio's inspiration came from the Raptors and their Riders, Durand (the guy who made Galio) wanted to create a statue that symbolized these important knights in Demacia's military, ofc Riot might just retcon Galio's lore to change the inspiration that Durand had when building him to the one you suggested.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I believe it is (or it's going to be) a mixture of the 2, it's not uncommon in reality too to drive inspiration from multiple sources.

Cetri1 votes

One thing that kinda bugs me is in Jhin's short story: Akali is implied to be the one accompanying Shen when he meets with Zed, but doesn't that screw up things timeline-wise after the Akali update?

Psyrix1 votes

The Orianna one can remain imo tbh... It's sorta like the "Ship of Theseus" Thought experiment/paradox: If you start off with a ship, then overtime eventually all of it's components were replaced and repaired... is it the same ship? or is it different?

The one with Vel' I'm not really understanding, could u explain a bit more? (srry a bit busy atm so wouldnt be able to reread the lores rn)

Opop1 votes

Sorry for the really late reply, basically the idea is that Vel'Koz's lore implies that the first time the Watchers came to runeterra was during the time of the 3 sisters, it was also during this period of time that the Iceborn came to be, it's also important to note that the Watchers are the masters of the void. The Vastaya lore states that the Vastaya came to be after the Great Void War, which was not the event that happened when Icathia unleashed the Void on Shurima by accident, it was a much much older conflict. Ivern's lore states that when the Iceborn came to be, he and a group of people ventured to Ionia to find a weapon to defeat them, when they reached Ionia, Vastaya were already a thing, and it were the Watchers that created the Iceborn

So the issue is: Vel'Koz: The Vastaya already existed before the great void war Ivern and Vastaya lore: The Vastaya only came to be after the great void war

Psyrix1 votes

{quoted}

Sorry for the really late reply, basically the idea is that Vel'Koz's lore implies that the first time the Watchers came to runeterra was during the time of the 3 sisters, it was also during this period of time that the Iceborn came to be, it's also important to note that the Watchers are the masters of the void. The Vastaya lore states that the Vastaya came to be after the Great Void War, which was not the event that happened when Icathia unleashed the Void on Shurima by accident, it was a much much older conflict. Ivern's lore states that when the Iceborn came to be, he and a group of people ventured to Ionia to find a weapon to defeat them, when they reached Ionia, Vastaya were already a thing, and it were the Watchers that created the Iceborn

So the issue is: Vel'Koz: The Vastaya already existed before the great void war Ivern and Vastaya lore: The Vastaya only came to be after the great void war

But neither discredits the other, the Great Void War presumably took years (as with most wars), or it could be the case that it wasn't Vastaya, but the predecessors to Vastaya (the Vastayashai'rei)... Either way, the incursion of the void did take quite some time, ad the iceborn were made almost immortal, their stories wouldve taken some time to reach noxus, so that's yet another time extension.... and their is the major one of it being quite a while before the freljordians rebelled against the watchers

Opop1 votes

Ivern's wasn't Noxian The issue with that is that Ivern's lore states that the he traveled to Ionia to find a way to defeat the Iceborn once they rose, and Lissandra's lore makes it clear she killed of most Iceborn when she sacrificed them to imprison the Watchers. Additionally, the Vastaya lore also states that before the Great Void War, Ionia didn't have humans (since they fled there to avoid the war), and yet Ivern's lore states that humans were already living there. We don't know exactly what the Vastayashai'rei looked like, however Ivern's descripiton of the creatures that he found ''A mysterious new foe arose. Chimeric beings, half human, half animal'' sounds like a Vastaya. This just comes off as a simple overlook by the writers.

GreenLore1 votes

Some of these can be handwaved one way or another.

  • As far as I'm aware Boram was actually quite old when Swain defeated him(he was searching for ways to prolong his life), its possible that Boram was still fairly young(like 20) when Sion died, while J1 might have been already a grandfather at that point.

  • Also while the appearance of champions in the game is rather static the same does not have to apply to the lore, so its possible that Swain did use a cane initially before going for the leg brace.

  • Volibear isn't directly called a shaman by Greyor, so as long as Udyr still has visions of the future they could still be accurate. Not to mention that the new lore also mentions how some think that Volibear was indeed once a human shaman.

  • Orianna was once a human, but by this point every part of her original body was replaced by machinery, so Lyte likely thinks of Orianna as a copy, not as the original.

  • The great void war might have happened after the watchers tried to break into runeterras reality.We don't know how much time passed beyond their appearance.

  • Quinns lore says that the azurite eagle is "said" to have been the inspiration for the wings.So this info is pretty much just a legend in some parts of demacia.

Opop1 votes

At least in regards to Swain we know that the demon healed his leg somewhat as part of the agreement (I'm aware he still uses a leg brace), so I don't think he would still use a cane after that point I don't think Boram would have been the Grand General at such an early age, plus you can look at his appearance when he gave Riven her sword (in her small comic) and that was a couple of years before the Ionian invasion, in it he looks about 30ish which leads to another point, I don't think healthcare in Noxus (or runeterra in general) is at a state that would allow people to live long lives (even Piltover, as a rather advanced city in comparison to others, doesn't even have widespread plumbing, as seen in the ''Progress Day'' story where Tamara has to defecate into a bowl, and doesn't even wash herself) so I don't really imagine Sion being older than 35 at his time of death.

The other points seem somewhat reasonable except the one about the Great Void War (which I addressed on other comments) In regards to Quinn, I can see where you are coming from, however I just find it strange that considering how prominent Kayle is culturally (most people seem to know about the Winged Protector), the Azurite Eagle connection just feels strange.

GreenLore1 votes

Completely forgot about Borams appearance in the small comic.

As for Quinn: Well many people might know the legend of Kayle,but that doesn't mean that everyone beliefs in her. Some people will likely see her as a myth and might think that the legend of the winged protector was actually inspired by the azurite eagle.

Jaspers1 votes

The Timeline one.

Presumably The Great Void war, was long long ago. Before Ivern, Lissandra and Vastayan came to exist. There is no time frame for their events in Vel'Koz bio just that they did this stuff. It is also presumed by some that the Great Void War was between Targon/Aspects and the Void.

I'd put it like this:

  • Watchers reach out and some get stuck in that space between Void and Reality. Those in Void create Voidborn and push them through instead to study this world. Great Void War happens between the Targonian Empire and this new threat.
  • Void War ends, those that fleed end up in Ionia and you know... do things with the locals.
  • Meanwhile Ivern is rising to power.
  • Frozen Watchers (the ones trapped in the liminal space) created Iceborn in a way to try and get them out, leading to rise of Iceborn and fall of Ivern.
  • Ivern fleed and faced Vastayan's.

At some point after, Lissandra did her stuff. Then a long time after Shurima rose to power in Targon's absence.

Opop1 votes

Here's why I disagree Vel'Koz's lore uses the expression: ''The boldest of them tore open the veil and hurled themselves upward, only to be horribly disoriented by the sudden shift between the abyss and the corporeal, linear nature of reality. In an instant, there was time, and heat, and pain... Then there was only cold. The way was shut, and dozens of the Watchers were trapped in the liminal space between two realms, frozen in the moment of transition.''

Notice the usage of ''there was only cold''. Combine this with Lissandra's lore ''The Void erupted into the mortal world in the far north'' and you have a confirmation that this is first time the Watchers ever came to Runeterra, which was in the Freljord.

When you hear the term ''Great Void War'' doesn't it invoke the idea of a conflict between non Void Being and Void Creatures? The only creatures in the Void up until this point were the Watchers who's first interaction was when they appeared in the Freljord, and if you read Vel'Koz's lore, it's stated that the first time the Voidborn came to be, was AFTER the Watchers had that first contact in the Freljord! ''Reaching into the material realm, the Watchers took from the crude matter that comprised it, shaping, corrupting and imbuing it with consciousness. These constructs were the first of the Voidborn, and would be their masters’ eyes and ears, sent forth into the nightmare of existence to watch, listen, and learn.''

And so, the timeline as presented in the new canon, HAS to put the Great Void War AFTER the Watchers came to Runeterra for the first time, which was during the time of the 3 sisters.

The issue with that is the following: -According to Lissandra's lore, it were the Watchers that created the Iceborn: ''The three sisters and their most powerful followers were named Iceborn. Those with this ability to withstand the worst of the numbing frost would be spared until the very end.'' -Ivern's Lore states that he only went to Ionia because the Iceborn came to be:''However, he was powerless when the Iceborn rose to prominence and looked down upon Ivern and his kind as hapless mortals who dared challenge their will.'' -When he reached Ionia, he discovered the Vastaya -However, the Vastaya lore states that they only came to be AFTER the Great Void War, and yet, in the timeline as it is presented, the Great Void War hadn't happen in this time frame yet.

Also just a correction, it were the Targonians that helped the Shuriman's rise to prominence by helping them create the Sun Disk (as indicated by the map), in fact if you look at the map, you can see that the first Sun Disk ever built was in a city right next to Mount Targon named Nerimazeth (which was also the place where Xerath was born, and it was later destroyed by the Sunborn as payback for his betrayal of Azir as seen in the ''Twilight of the Gods'' short story), so they weren't absent, rather the Targonians influence the life of the Runeterran mortals indirectly, they aren't a terrestrial empire.

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