The reason why Riot don't want to change kayle's looks (theory)

RISE994·Feb 27, 2019·1 votes·4,158 views

So my theory is that riot is not changing how kayle looks drastically because they already made a cinematic about Kayle and Morgana to be released alongside patch 9.5, so they don't want the 0in-game Kayle to be different from the cinematic Kayle, that's just my theory nothing confirmed yet (though I hope it's true because I love league's cinematics a lot). Edit : or it might even be a new comic, by the way i am perfectly fine with the rework and i like it

28 Comments

BoringLittleFFeb 27, 20197 votes

The reason why Riot won't change Kayle's looks drastically is:

a) People didn't care about Kayle and even dismissed her as "boobs and butt" champ until they saw her rework and started hailing her as a second Samus Aran.

b) People draw tabbards and long loinclothes over Kayle and say "omg why is it such a problem" while not trying to make an animated sprite and see that the tabbard will look like a piece of stick.

c) It means doing everything from the ground zero and given how only a small minority has problems with Kayle having a body while the rest is eager to use double swords and R, there is no point to do so.

d) After the breastplate was changed, people switched to other details and whine that the armor is too tight-fitting. Basically, they want a flying Garen.

e) Aether Wing Kayle is a flying armored dreadnought and people are UNHAPPY ABOUT IT because it's "too clunky". You just can't win with them.

f) All of the above.

Doge2020Feb 27, 20191 votes

Idk why people hate the Aether wing Kayle skin so much. I have Aether wing Kayle (not reworked version) and I loved the skin when I first saw it, that skin was actually the reason I got into Kayle in the first place lol.

I can understand people being unhappy that Aether wing Kayle’s old auto attack sound isn’t in the reworked version, which I have the same gripe. But I just don’t understand how those people really want to just nitpick every single small pixel that is on Kayle’s skins (mainly Aether wing Kayle tho, her pentakill skin is fine for them)

BoringLittleFFeb 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Idk why people hate the Aether wing Kayle skin so much. I have Aether wing Kayle (not reworked version) and I loved the skin when I first saw it, that skin was actually the reason I got into Kayle in the first place lol.

I can understand people being unhappy that Aether wing Kayle’s old auto attack sound isn’t in the reworked version, which I have the same gripe. But I just don’t understand how those people really want to just nitpick every single small pixel that is on Kayle’s skins (mainly Aether wing Kayle tho, her pentakill skin is fine for them)

I don't know why they do it. The skin is basically what you get IF you add some more bulk to Kayle, so when people start complaining that it looks heavy, I just:

Isn't that what you asked for???

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/04/30/63597586385169370740875429_guvdD.jpg

I think the Aether Wing is awesome, the forms are awesome, and it makes me glad that I bought that skin many years ago. However some people prefer to complain for the sake of complaining and cover it with "I care for the character" excuse.

Doge2020Feb 27, 20191 votes

Yeah if you are going to complain about a champ ability, skin, lore or whatever; at least give a solution that lines up with your argument, solves the problem and is something that everybody is generally happy with.

Like instead of complaining that X champ needs a nerf and not saying anything else, complain about X champ BUT also provide your nerf that is appropriate for the state of the champ, actually addresses the problematic ability/design detail and give a compensation buff if the champ is in a good spot with an ~50% winrate and an “average” play rate, or is underperforming.

ZapzyaFeb 27, 20193 votes

The people who complained about Kayle pre rework were either having mild complaints about realism, or were over exaggerating. The number of people unhappy about rework Kayle is much larger than the few who were complaining before. Just because they are unhappy with the visual design does not mean they are unhappy with the gameplay update. They just want a base skin that doesn’t look ridiculous, they don’t want flying Garen, most agree that the skins like Silver Kayle look really good (unless you think Silver Kayle = flying Garen).

Honestly, the armour just doesn’t look like legitamate armour, it looks more like cosplay. It just leaves her crotch exposed, covered only by a skin tight cloth suit (most people wear actual clothes beneath armour). This is especially annoying when you realise she is supposed to be the symbol of justice which inspires Demacia, and Demacians all wear full plate (from Turmoil short story). Why is she so incongruent to the people she inspires?

The real reason Riot won’t change it is because they are not willing to reassign the resources to remake it. I believe them when they say the tabard is too hard to make due to clipping issues. The decision to make Kayle like this came from somewhere, they aren’t going to go back on it so close to release, they’ll just do whatever takes the least time and resources to try and placate the people who don’t like it.

As for Aether Wing Kayle, idk, I don’t think it looks bad. But people spent money on that skin, I can understand the strong reaction.

BoringLittleFFeb 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

The people who complained about Kayle pre rework were either having mild complaints about realism, or were over exaggerating. The number of people unhappy about rework Kayle is much larger than the few who were complaining before.

Within these boards, maybe. Outside the boards, people are quite chill about it and they were the same way about pre-rework Kayle. The classic Kayle barely got any praise or indication people cared about her design whatsoever.

Just because they are unhappy with the visual design does not mean they are unhappy with the gameplay update. They just want a base skin that doesn’t look ridiculous, they don’t want flying Garen, most agree that the skins like Silver Kayle look really good (unless you think Silver Kayle = flying Garen).

There is literally a thread of complaining about Silver Kayle in these very boards and how it looks underwhelming. :/ And that skin is not very armored, it's just loose clothing instead of a tight fitting one (neither offer much protection, but it suddenly doesn't matter as long as she is wearing a tunic).

Honestly, the armour just doesn’t look like legitamate armour, it looks more like cosplay. It just leaves her crotch exposed, covered only by a skin tight cloth suit (most people wear actual clothes beneath armour). This is especially annoying when you realise she is supposed to be the symbol of justice which inspires Demacia, and Demacians all wear full plate (from Turmoil short story). Why is she so incongruent to the people she inspires?

I think to see a six-winged golden figure with glowing amber eyes descend from the sky while wielding a flaming sword is quite inspiring.

Also, Kayle is not an intentional symbol of Demacia. She is a thing of legends, which have been told and retold and some of them became a part of Demacian aesthetic. Consider how symbol of Demacia is wings and sword, it is hard to say that Kayle is incongruent.

Kayle doesn't care about her status in Demacia. She does not put it above other states and countries. She is only interested in whether people are going to be righteous or are they sinners. She will smite a king if he was her worshipper and a horrible person all around, but will approve of a peon who will pass her judgement, even if the said peon has never heard the legends about Kayle.

In addition, Demacians are mortal, while Morgana was unable to find a sword sharp enough to cut her wings. They are not wearing full plates to follow Kayle's example, they wear it because unlike Kayle, they don't have Targonian power pumping through their veins and don't live for centuries. Kayle herself makes it a point that she is no longer mortal.

The real reason Riot won’t change it is because they are not willing to reassign the resources to remake it.

And what for? The Kayle criticism comes from people who have rarely approved of any Riot decisions lately, while a major part is either fine or positive with them. It is not wise to meet the needs of a lesser audience who has always been negative about you instead of paying attention to the audience that is positive.

I believe them when they say the tabard is too hard to make due to clipping issues. The decision to make Kayle like this came from somewhere, they aren’t going to go back on it so close to release, they’ll just do whatever takes the least time and resources to try and placate the people who don’t like it.

The decision to change Kayle in this direction was made at the point of Aatrox's rework (his quotes to Kayle and Morgana were a huge hint).

As for Aether Wing Kayle, idk, I don’t think it looks bad. But people spent money on that skin, I can understand the strong reaction.

But **what ** are they upset about?

ZapzyaFeb 27, 20191 votes

The SAS board is a very small community. I saw sentiment that base Kayle looked bad on reddit, a much larger community. There were tons of Kayle redesigns on there that hit the front page, and often the comments would echo the fact that they all looked better than base Kayle.

Yeah, silver Kayle isn’t actually more armoured than base Kayle. It looks way less ridiculous however, she is wearing actual clothing. An exposed crotch just looks trashy to me. The thread on the boards right now is clearly not gaining as much traffic or traction as the posts that were initially discussing how the skins looked better than base Kayle, can you not remember the massive amount of threads asking for a silver Kayle rerelease (on reddit too)? Besides, the post says it’s underwhelming in game, not bad overall like base Kayle.

I never argued she wasn’t inspiring to Demacia, but even if it was unintentional, then why haven’t they changed their armour design to fit Kayle’s appearance? You also forget that Kayle was raised as a mortal in Demacia. Her goal was to enforce justice in Demacia and make it a better place, she even had a group of loyal followers who she cared for (to the point she would kill her sister to avenge them). She was definitely a part of Demacia, it makes no sense as to why she looks so different.

When I say the decision to make Kayle like this, I mean the decision to amp up the sex appeal with skin tight clothing and the design of her base model, not her lore (what Aatrox hinted at). I voice my criticism in hopes that it resonates with Riot. At the very least I show there is an audience for armoured female characters. I am not delusional however and by this point it is clear they are delivering what has been shown. Criticism is important however, without feedback we can never grow and differing opinions are an important part of this.

I don’t know what people are angry about with Aether Wing Kayle because I really don’t care either way.

BoringLittleFFeb 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The SAS board is a very small community. I saw sentiment that base Kayle looked bad on reddit, a much larger community. There were tons of Kayle redesigns on there that hit the front page, and often the comments would echo the fact that they all looked better than base Kayle.

Yeah, silver Kayle isn’t actually more armoured than base Kayle. It looks way less ridiculous however, she is wearing actual clothing. An exposed crotch just looks trashy to me.

So, it's not about protection at all, while people claim it's all about protection. Never focused on the crotch though...and I thought "exposed" means not covered with clothing at all. :/

The thread on the boards right now is clearly not gaining as much traffic or traction as the posts that were initially discussing how the skins looked better than base Kayle, can you not remember the massive amount of threads asking for a silver Kayle rerelease (on reddit too)? Besides, the post says it’s underwhelming in game, not bad overall like base Kayle.

However, they are still not happy with it even though it's quite simple in design which, by their admition, fits Kayle more.

I never argued she wasn’t inspiring to Demacia, but even if it was unintentional, then why haven’t they changed their armour design to fit Kayle’s appearance?

It think, Kayle got this armor after going to Targon and she used to wear something different before she left. I don't think Morgana was wearing dresses and walking barefoot prior to whole sister conflict deal.

You also forget that Kayle was raised as a mortal in Demacia. Her goal was to enforce justice in Demacia and make it a better place, she even had a group of loyal followers who she cared for (to the point she would kill her sister to avenge them). She was definitely a part of Demacia, it makes no sense as to why she looks so different.

That place was not called Demacia back then. People had not discovered petricite at this point. All everybody knew about future Demacia that it just was a place that was considered safe from magic...at least a bit safer than other places. This all happened way before the place got called Demacia officially. This is why legends doesn't even mention Kayle's name and nobody knows about Morgana.

When I say the decision to make Kayle like this, I mean the decision to amp up the sex appeal with skin tight clothing and the design of her base model, not her lore (what Aatrox hinted at).

I just don't get the sex appeal part. Kayle has always been built like that. She was not built like Jinx or Illaoi and even her old lore mentioned that she is an attractive woman. The old clothing under her armor really did not look any different. TBH, there is a similarity between sex-crazy people and people who say they are "ani-objectification": they both think that a lady with the curves = sexually provoking.

I voice my criticism in hopes that it resonates with Riot. At the very least I show there is an audience for armoured female characters. I am not delusional however and by this point it is clear they are delivering what has been shown. Criticism is important however, without feedback we can never grow and differing opinions are an important part of this.

I get it. I truly do.

Yet, I never saw and/or thought that the League of Legends was focused on the armor thing, realism and practicality (neither I thought it should be). Therefore, I was quite nonchalant about the designs from the beginning.

Sure thing, I have my limits, but they have not been breached and in case they are ever breached: it's just one developer, one MOBA game that I am not even emotionally invested. For me, financially supporting games that feature cool designs and characters makes a bigger impact on what I want to see in gaming.

Therefore, I saw no reason for pointing fingers on the audience, like some of the dissatisified users did, blaming Riot designers or seeing any plots behind the design.

And I found especially frustrating that people started downright downgrading Kayle to "playboy bunny shaking her butt for everyone". The (blamed and accused) audience that welcomed Kayle's new design without questions treated her better and more respectfully than the people who claimed to be "Kayle's fans". This is what I find maddening and why I cannot just not comment on that.

I appreciate a good armor design, sure. However, within a fictional universe when no one is dressed for the adventure, I look at the design only from the visual perspective without delving into "whether it would work IRL". I find Kayle's look to match the Targonian style and reflect her aspiration towards ascending and become the divine embodiment, free of flaws. Could it be different? Maybe. Would I mind it not looking as it is right now?

Nope. In fact, I'm glad that with the lots of skins I have on Kayle, I can actually try out various styles of armor with her and enjoy the smooth animation Iron Inquisitor Kayle deserves.

However I will always have issues with the "here is the armor that hides her curves" or "I found a way to make Kayle cover up" attitudes.

ZapzyaFeb 28, 20191 votes

When I see characters in armour, I don’t think “would this work IRL?”, I think “can I believe that this would exist in this universe?” and so the intention behind the design matters. Why would Kayle be wearing armour leggings that suddenely end at the crotch like thigh high boots, then have a chestplate which resumes after her abdomen? They are clearly made to resemble the Demacian aesthetic (pre 11) so I can assume that it was made by mortals and should have mortal concerns in mind. Why else would the artists make it look so close to Demacian aesthetic if not to suggest it came from Demacia?

Why is there seemeingly nothing to protect the gut, a vital area? If the idea was to wear less armour to reduce weight whilst still protecting some vitals like the heart, why even bother covering the entire legs? Even further contradicting this is that her pauldrons have bulky ornamental pieces. So this is just decorative armour? But why leave the crotch area uncovered? The amount of armour everywhere else even draws attention to her crotch by contrast.

I don’t actually think she looks sexy, I just question why Kayle would wear this? Moreover, the clothes beneath her armour don’t even seem to be actual clothes. Why would anyone wear skintight clothes beneath their armour? The chaffing would be horrendous. Does that mean she regularly wears skintight clothes when she’s unarmoured, or is it a special armour costume?

It feels like the artists were torn between making her fully armoured and lightly armoured, and went for something in the middle which just does not work. I do not understand the intent behind the smith, nor do I understand Kayle’s motivation for wearing it. They should have either committed to fully armoured, or something more like silver Kayle. Even if she had no armour, it would be better, although the loss of an armoured female would hurt their visual diversity a bit. The armour as is just seems gaudy and not quite functional.

I care about what Kayle looks like not because I am invested in the game, but because I am invested in the story. In game, I’m just going to use the unmasked skin, because I think it looks so much better than the base skin. If they ever use Kayle in a comic or animation however, I’m going to have these thoughts every time she is on screen. If I have to just ignore it and get over it every time, that story is going to frustrate me greatly. I feel it detracts from her legitimacy as a character heavily. To see this in a world I am passionate saddens me greatly.

I don’t care when a game like League of Angels makes a character with sexy armour and tons of bare skin because I don’t care about the world. I don’t care that Janna only wears two strips of cloth, because I can reason she doesn’t care about covering up with her clothes. Kayle’s armour looks like it’s attempting to be fully protective, ornamental and scarce at the same time, to which I can find no reason. If this was released before the great retcon into a world which was cool, but I ultimately was not attached to, I could ignore this, but Kayle was released into a story that I care about. It hurts her character and the world by extension.

Camille FerrøsFeb 27, 20193 votes

They have a comic coming. But even if they didn't have the comic I highly doubt that they would have changed her.

Romans VI XXIIIFeb 27, 20191 votes

Well let's be honest sej doesnt look anything like sej in game compared to comic, same with ashe lol

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 27, 20192 votes

Well the comic versions are significantly younger then the in-game versions

Camille FerrøsFeb 27, 20191 votes

Are they? Do we know for sure that its going to be an event from the past?

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 27, 20191 votes

I was referring to comic Ashe and Sejuani, as Romans referenced them

RISE994Feb 27, 20191 votes

where you referring ashe and sej ? or you're just teasing us and there is a comic about K&M in the works? ;)

Doge2020Feb 27, 20191 votes

There is a comic about Ashe for sure but idk about sej. I haven’t checked the Universe page to get caught up on my lore but I do remember the Ashe: Warmother comic for sure.

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 28, 20191 votes

Well seeing as I'm not a Rioter and have no kind of information if they are making a Kayle/Morgana comic, yes, I was referring to Ashe and Sej

Camille FerrøsFeb 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UdgjPVLF,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-27T17:49:30.796+0000)

I was referring to comic Ashe and Sejuani, as Romans referenced them

oh okay.

Romans VI XXIIIFeb 28, 20191 votes

so then the comic of kayle/morg cant be of them getting their powers? before the armor. pretty simple

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 28, 20191 votes

I was referring to Ashe and Sejuani in the Warmother comics

Romans VI XXIIIFeb 28, 20192 votes

I know you are, but that same logic can be used for the kayle/morg comic. Its pre-league. Thus the armor does not have to match. So RIOT can fix the shit armor and comic will be unaffected.

HotarµFeb 27, 20193 votes

It's probably because they wanted to keep the champion recognizable. Reworking a champion means reworking them, not changing their design or look entirely.

GreenKnightFeb 27, 20194 votes

{quoted}

It's probably because they wanted to keep the champion recognizable. Reworking a champion means reworking them, not changing their design or look entirely.

Galio, Trundle, Winter Wonder Irelia, Taric. Yeah, very similar to their better counterparts.

HotarµFeb 27, 20196 votes

Yes, we get it, you hate reworks.

Galio is still a giant gargoyle-statue, Trundle is still a troll with a club, Frostblade Irelia is still a winter themed Irelia skin, and Taric is still a gem-knight support.

Yes, they are very similar to their counterparts. Doesn't matter if you like them or not because that's not what I'm saying.

GreenKnightFeb 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Yes, we get it, you hate reworks.

Galio is still a giant gargoyle-statue, Trundle is still a troll with a club, Frostblade Irelia is still a winter themed Irelia skin, and Taric is still a gem-knight support.

Yes, they are very similar to their counterparts. Doesn't matter if you like them or not because that's not what I'm saying.

Oh, of course. Just because they have something in common, doesn't mean they are the same thing. Galio was a gargoyle, sure. But he wasn't giant and his personality was completely different. Trundle didn't have ice theme in his design, and Frostblade wasn't a "magical" kind of winter spirit, but rather something like Arctic Ops Varus. I will give you Taric though.

The might share some themes, but they are not similar. It's like saying that Braum and Lissandra are almost the same, because they both use ice based skills.

Warlord RhinarkFeb 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

It's probably because they wanted to keep the champion recognizable. Reworking a champion means reworking them, not changing their design or look entirely.

Except that's what they did.

GreenKnightFeb 27, 20193 votes

Maybe that's correct, but it still doesn't excuse her design.