All I took away from zoe's short story is that she's the villain

ChuShoe·Nov 20, 2017·59 votes·3,023 views

She walks into a town, disrupts the life there, and when people freak out instead of competently realizing she's terrifying to them and trying to rectify the situation, she just blows up the village?

That sounds like a villain thing to me.

And that was supposed to be her 'message'

So she's the new Harbinger of Doom? Glad to see fiddlesticks was replaced.

I get she's supposed to be a playful child-spirit thing, but any playful child would've understood that murdering an entire town with a comet isn't fun or playful.

Also Aurelion is in there for some reason.

100 Comments

RalanrNov 20, 201715 votes

...

Are we supposed to consider Zoe as a good guy?

CraxsianNov 21, 201716 votes

Yep, because she is tsundere-esque with Aurelion Sol... Oh! And she didn't want to hurt a squirrel... And she killed humans, but humans are like parasites of the existence, so who cares?

And the most important argument: SHE IS CUUUUUTE!!!!! SPARKLES FOR EVERYONE!!!! :DDDD

GenoXxNov 21, 201711 votes

I honestly don't see why you are trying to defend Riot on this one so badly, Riot actually messed up this time with a champion. No one will learn from their mistakes if you don't say anything about it.

What do you think the next champion will be?

RalanrNov 21, 20175 votes

Because I don't see Riot messing up. Morally I don't see Zoe as a good person. But thematically I feel Zoe is fitting the whole hyperactive kid with a hyperactive kit.

And honestly I feel she's getting bashed too hard for what she's supposed to be. Annoying on purpose is still annoying.

GenoXxNov 21, 201713 votes

No, I don't have a hate for hyper active kids. I was so stoked when i first seen Zoe, as they needed a pixar like character for league. It went downhill when I heard the interactions....even more with her lore.

There is no justifying that her lore is written pretty badly. And I usually accept all of Riot's lore, even if I don't like the changes or champion. I love the new lore. But I was in for a doozy with Zoe's. It's a sudden change of pace from their usualy out put and honestly does not give us a good impression on who Zoe is.

RalanrNov 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

No, I don't have a hate for hyper active kids. I was so stoked when i first seen Zoe, as they needed a pixar like character for league.

You may not. But I feel others do.

It went downhill when I heard the interactions....even more with her lore.

Not gonna lie, I kinda agree with you there.

There is no justifying that her lore is written pretty badly. And I usually accept all of Riot's lore, even if I don't like the changes or champion. I love the new lore. But I was in for a doozy with Zoe's. It's a sudden change of pace from their usualy out put and honestly does not give us a good impression on who Zoe is.

Again, I kinda agree. I don't consider Zoe great, lorewise. But in terms of character gitting kit I feel she's perfect.

Though honestly I still blame time dilation.

THE RlVER KlNGNov 21, 20174 votes

I just think Riot has really jumped the shark with her.

They became too concerned with if they COULD create a character and not if they SHOULD. What really does Zoe introduce to the overarching League narrative than a host of inconsistencies, plot jumps, and just a general sense of unease at such a repulsive character?

CapriciousNov 20, 201710 votes

It's not that she's supposed to be a villain, but the writer just failed to depict her as a trickster. I think they were going for a character like Trickster Raven but it's a horribly flat interpretation.

GreenLoreNov 20, 20179 votes

To be fair,the townsfolk attacked her first without provocation...

Talos of AltmoraNov 20, 201729 votes

Yes, because they thought she was a dangerous spirit... and she proved them right.

Beyond LegendsNov 20, 20178 votes

I tend to step on ants that bite me so eh. Human morals and constrant, who bloody cares.

Talos of AltmoraNov 20, 201726 votes

Yes, but these aren't ants; they were people with families, lives, and goals. She killed people, i don't give a rat's ass about her Omniscient Morality Licenses, i am not overtly fond of murder, especially if there was a way to show mercy.

Beyond LegendsNov 21, 20175 votes

So do ants? They have live and goals too. They may be simplicitistic compare to humans, but at the end of they day they still have lives. What makes the live of one ant better then life of one human?

Humans are no better than the targonians. We enslaved cows, pig and sheep for their meat and fur. We enslaved manipulated wolf until they become our lower slave that we called dogs.

Justice and morality has always been dictate by us humans because we have been the beings on the top of the food chain for so long. You might think your righteous or what ever but at the end of the day your only be limited by your human hypocracy.

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 201713 votes

So do ants? They have live and goals too. They may be simplicitistic compare to humans, but at the end of they day they still have lives. What makes the live of one ant better then life of one human?

I want you to go talk to someone close to you and then answer your own question. Tell me, what other creature can argue about morality? An animal cannot, a man can. That is the key difference.

Humans are no better than the targonians. We enslaved cows, pig and sheep for their meat and fur. We enslaved manipulated wolf until they become our lower slave that we called dogs.

That's not how domestication works. farm animals live peaceful lives where they are not hunted by predators, live peacefully, and when we must kill them, we do it as quickly and humanely as possible. We also need to, as they provide us food and necessary materials. Also, dogs as slaves? We did have war dogs, but there's a reason they're called man's best friend, a dog will never betray you, they helped us hunt, they help is now as friends and companions. And if you want to bring up cats, well, go tell a cat owner it's his/her slave.

Justice and morality has always been dictate by us humans because we have been the beings on the top of the food chain for so long. You might think your righteous or what ever but at the end of the day your only be limited by your human hypocracy.

Humans have decided that yes, although some would say God, or a being similar to him, gave us morality. Because of my own personal beliefs, I do not think I am righteous... but i want to be. That is why i try to be the best person i can be. Many people, hell i would say most humans, are good at heart.

You also seem to not see that you are as much as ant to Zoe as me and those townfolk.

HonestJohnTheConNov 21, 201719 votes

AurelionSol "Ah, the joys of lesser organisms rising up to slay their betters..."

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20171 votes

I'm not sure what your trying to say with that quote.

HonestJohnTheConNov 21, 201710 votes

Not much. It's just a fitting quote given the conversation.

Also, to show that Aurelion Sol and Zoe are really not that different. Aurelion Sol would probably raze a village or a hundred to get rid of Targon for good.

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 201710 votes

Ah, i see, thanks.

Sol would do it out of anger, so while i would call him a monster for doing that, I would at least understand why. Zoe destroyed that village when there were a million other ways to get out of that situation that didn't need to have a body count.

It's honestly horrifying how... inhuman she is.

Sexy Jack RabbitNov 21, 20175 votes

I feel like that's shoehorning. People are so quick to defend Aurelion.

Aurelion is no better then Zoe in a lot of ways.

Anger doesn't excuse murder like you said. Neither does Naivety, which is why Zoe did it.

If an animal is threatened it'll bite back. Zoe was threatened, so she bit back.

For a being who hasn't been in contact with mortals on a level-playing field for who knows how long, it makes sense she would be inhuman.

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20179 votes

I feel like that's shoehorning. People are so quick to defend Aurelion.

Because he's the most human out of all the current champions from Space Targon. He was enslaved, he can't go back to doing what he wants and is meant to do. Also, everytime he disobeys, his art work is destroyed right before his eyes.

I'm not saying he's a good guy, i'm just saying he is understandably pissed off.

Anger doesn't excuse murder like you said.

I agree, it's just that this is a more understandable motive. Zoe didn't need to, nor showed that she wanted to, destroy that village. She did it, and brushed it off.

Sol, once he gets free, will destroy an entire space empire for enslaving him. Trillions of people will die. I am not saying he has a moral high ground, I am saying he is a character who is both understandable in his anger and symaptheic in spite of his plans.

If an animal is threatened it'll bite back.

Yes, But Zoe is not an animal. She comes across as sociopath, she is a powerful demi-god who could have left them alone. She knows more than an animal, and should know better then to act like one.

For a being who hasn't been in contact with mortals on a level-playing field for who knows how long, it makes sense she would be inhuman.

Actually, it doesn't make that much sense if you really think about it. She has seen more death and destruction then most children of her age. She lost her family and friends, and more importantly she was a child when the aspect decided to take her. She should show some sigs of trauma.

ahferroin7Nov 21, 20171 votes

Actually, it doesn't make that much sense if you really think about it. She has seen more death and destruction then most children of her age. She lost her family and friends, and more importantly she was a child when the aspect decided to take her. She should show some sigs of trauma.

This assumes though that her mind still works like a human min. Given Pantheon's back story, it's kind of implied that this is not entirely the case, at least some of the time. If the aspect is the primary entity present, and not Zoe's original mind, then there should logically be no trauma visible at all. That said, things do run the gamut (Taric is essentially himself, just with bonus powers, Leona and Diana are mostly like they were, but their personalities did appear to change at least some (brings to mind the Trill species in Star Trek), and Pantheon's mind appears to have been completely overridden).

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20174 votes

This assumes though that her mind still works like a human min. Given Pantheon's back story, it's kind of implied that this is not entirely the case, at least some of the time. If the aspect is the primary entity present, and not Zoe's original mind, then there should logically be no trauma visible at all.

But Zoe is still herself. To me, it just comes across as the Aspect not allowing her to think unhappy thoughts. Remember, Pantheon is the aspect itself, Atreus is the host. Zoe still is Zoe, she is an empowered being, not a divine one. Logically, she should be as mature as her age would sugest, but acts like a child and has no self-restraint. These are not good traits for a being to have.

That said, things do run the gamut (Taric is essentially himself, just with bonus powers, Leona and Diana are mostly like they were, but their personalities did appear to change at least some (brings to mind the Trill species in Star Trek), and Pantheon's mind appears to have been completely overridden).

Pantheon reminds me of Kaela Mensha Khaine, being a wargod who requires the sacfrice of a young warrior in order to be summoned into the physical world. Diana seems to have had most of her life planned out by Targon (seriously, her parents weren't even from he area, they were drawn there by dreams) and her Apsect puts on her armor for her and is implied to have influenced her to kill the Solari elders.

notice me Sin piNov 21, 20172 votes

thruout this entire post all im thinking about is ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼

and other fellow weebs might also as well

DestínumNov 22, 20173 votes

And if you want to bring up cats, well, go tell a cat owner it's his/her slave.

There's actually even research pointing towards cats having domesticated themselves originally (in places like ancient Egypt). because they realized that living with humans is pretty freakin' sweet.

Umbral RegentNov 20, 20178 votes

So? Both were wrong in their own ways - it's not about "Zoe proved them right", it's about "these people levelled spears at a floating girl in a paranoid fit, and she didn't like it so she blew them up with a comet".

Besides, the "x proved y right" thing is a horrible, horrible attitude to have. I could say "all horses are hyper-violent killers", punch a horse, and get the shit kicked out of me. But the horse proved me right, didn't it?

Talos of AltmoraNov 20, 201711 votes

She could have just left, did she really need them to die, or to destroy their town? my point is, she dangerous and should have this human trait called empathy, because somewhere, someone is going to have to tell a mother her child isn't coming home because of her actions.

Umbral RegentNov 21, 20173 votes

Well, I mean...Not if the mother isn't coming home, either. The entire village was obliterated, if I recall.

And, she did need to deliver that (catastrophic) message, since her power to do anything but was pretty heavily inhibited until that point.

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20178 votes

Well, I mean...Not if the mother isn't coming home, either. The entire village was obliterated, if I recall.

That doesn't make it better. I get she needs to deliver the message, but an entire town being blown up only sends the message "there's a demon who's killed an entire village, we must stop it!"

Umbral RegentNov 21, 20174 votes

Or it could mean "there's a source of cataclysmic power nearby". Besides, who's going to think "oh, a spirit must have done this!" when all they see is a hole in the ground? They could just as easily chalk it up to "a mage must have done this!", particularly because of the presence of a World Rune.

The only thing that could even remotely justify the paranoia around spirits would be seeing Zoe do it. So the only thing that could spread more such paranoia is if the girl in the red dress and the "interesting guy" survived to tell the tale.

And, of course it doesn't make it better. Some people can (and probably will, and that's fine) chalk it up to me being morbid with my response, but that doesn't change what happens. A bunch of paranoid idiot townsfolk raised arms against a demigod, who (almost rightly) gave them a dose of overkill.

Potentially nobody survived. Is it horrible? Yes. Does it matter? Maybe. Does the discussion prove ANYTHING on either side as just? Nope.

The townsfolk were paranoid, irrational, and frightened out of their gourds. Zoe was bored, obscenely powerful, and showed no restraint in displaying it. Both sides are bad.

In the end, my point is; if you feel that Zoe proved them right, you have a very, very dangerous worldview.

You're free to respond more, but for me, this is the end of the discussion.

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20176 votes

The townsfolk were paranoid, irrational, and frightened out of their gourds. Zoe was bored, obscenely powerful, and showed no restraint in displaying it. Both sides are bad.

the towns folk wanted to defend themselves from something they perceived as hostile to them. Zoe, as you put it was bored and doesn't know the meaning of things like "restraint" or "empathy" I think I'll side with the people who only died because a powerful being scared them.

In the end, my point is; if you feel that Zoe proved them right, you have a very, very dangerous worldview.

They thought Zoe was a threat, she killed an entire town. She's more dangerous than worldview can ever hope to be, because my worldview can't kill anyone, it's just my opinion. If spirits acted like Zoe did, I would make damn sure i could kill one, because I love my family and friends, and I would never allow anyone to harm them.

Craft ZeppelinNov 21, 201712 votes

Fyi, it took Xerath the most overpowered mages in lore, a being of "unlimited pure arcane energy" 30 mins to destroy a village. Zoe did in like...a flick of a finger.

This lore is bogus. Seriously.

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20177 votes

... I seriously hope there's some way to permanently kill an aspect, because that is the scariest thing i have ever read.

Craft ZeppelinNov 21, 201710 votes

Also in this particular scene, he was nuking the crap out of the village with arcane meteors and death rays, while yasuo, taliah, and nasus cannot even stop him.

Xerath cast away his best friend, obliterated a civilization, plotted like for decades. And commiting murder to save the king.

And this...kid is granted more power than that by being selected by a space parasite in a day And that meteor was not at full strength? What the hell.

GreenLoreNov 21, 20173 votes

Well she wasn't a spirit and them attacking her proved to be counterproductive.

And in the end,Zoe didn't kill these people on purpose,it was essentially an accident and Zoe herself didn't understand that she killed them.

There was no evil intent behind her actions.

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20174 votes

Well she wasn't a spirit and them attacking her proved to be counterproductive.

It's semantics on whether the aspects count as spirits or not, as they are clearly not natural beings. Also, how was it counter productive? The Villagers where working off what they knew, and since Zoe showed all the signs of being a spirit, they jumped to that conclusion. They have the right to defend themselves you know.

And in the end, Zoe didn't kill these people on purpose, it was essentially an accident and Zoe herself didn't understand that she killed them.

That doesn't mean she isn't dangerous. It doesn't matter if she was genuinely innocent and didn't know that she had killed them, she did and did it casually. Also, it's hard to count throwing a magic meteor at a town an accident. people are dead because of what she did, a whole town in gone, and you are going to tell me that she isn't dangerous?

I understand she's not evil, but most normal people don't find someone shrugging off the deaths of a town that they caused as sympathetic. Especially since this is the first thing we see her do.

SolarisCorvusNov 21, 20176 votes

{quoted}

To be fair,the townsfolk attacked her first without provocation...

At first they tried to ward her off, at that pint she could have spoken to them and explained she wasnt evil ( however she for some reason cant socialize with others ). Then they attacked her with simple metal weapons so zoe proceeds to nuke the town. The only justification for this would be the aspect subconsciously controlling the weak willed vessel and making her uncover the world rune.

Glory ln DeathNov 21, 20172 votes

To be fair, she has the ability to force any living creature to fall asleep almost instantly. Sounds like a much better option than summoning a meteor.

Over InnsmouthNov 21, 20179 votes

The difference is that Zoe is a dumb kid with seemingly no concept of the idea of responsibility or consequence. She has no drive or motive, she just does whatever with no apparent character behind her. She has traits - incredibly shitty ones - but traits arent a character.

And stupid is far worse than evil in my eyes. I'd rather take my chances with Shaco and an anal probe than Zoe.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOONov 20, 20173 votes

Ryze and Bard kinda pull the same shit

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20179 votes

Bard is an alien being trying to keep countless worlds in balance and Ryze is trying to gather power to keep it from being in the wrong hands.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOONov 21, 20172 votes

And neither of them give a shit about the individual lives

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 201710 votes

Bard is an alien being who's mind we may never comprehend. Ryze is basicly trying to stop a magic nuclear war by taking the nukes away. Zoe, is a child who had no reason to kill anyone.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOONov 21, 201711 votes

And Zoe is a child god who has stayed a child for a millennia. She has seen countless realities live and die and she has no doubt seen millions of deaths over the years. She can literally detect a squirrel's lifespan. How insignificant does a human look when compared to a god?

Talos of AltmoraNov 21, 20179 votes

A child would probably experience some sort of Tramua. I mean, I don't think a normal, functional child would act like that, even in these strange circumstances. It's why i think her aspect stops her from thinking about anything that would make her unhappy.

I mean, she doesn't seem any more mature than a normal teenager, in fact you would have a hard time convincing me she's in the double-digit range. You'd think that seeing death and destruction on such a wide scale would make her anything but her current character.

Also, I buy that "what is an ant to a god" thing from Aurelion Sol, because he is a god and acts like it. Zoe acts like that annoying kid who never shut her mouth during class. Hell at least Pantheon, for as much as I hate the bastard, will probably show himself as more responsible and godly then her.

YoRHa 2BNov 21, 20174 votes

Pantheon, God of War and Bakers

Craft ZeppelinNov 21, 201714 votes

And she lived for MILLENNIA, and doesn't know the rules of tag. Okay. Blows up a village and assumes the children living there would find the world rune. Although she blew it to dust with a comet ground zero.

Dude. This is NOT intelligent. Even JINX is not this level of MAD.

zero356Nov 21, 20175 votes

Even JINX is not this level of MAD.

I would disagree it's That is a difference in scale, not mentality

And I would say it comes from different sources Jinx gets her kicks out of destruction and chaos Zoe just doesn't care, I think

Or she does, but changes her mind so quickly and do to her position, the consequences end up not really mattering, perpetuating a cycle of uncaring

FasmodeyNov 21, 20173 votes

You try too hard to defend her bullshit you look funny.

Pitty.

Nik NikersonNov 21, 20172 votes

I mean, children can be some of the cruelest people out there. So it's not like there isn't precedent for a bouncy, happy, 12-year old girl to think being mean to someone is fun.

And Zoe isn't a villain. She's more chaotic neutral then evil. She does stuff because the universe/multiverse/whatever compels her to, not really because she wants to.

And think of it this way: Haven't you ever seen a child kick over an ant hill? Is the kid evil for not caring about the ants?