GOD BLESS RIOT

biomaster·Jul 22, 2015·9 votes·1,358 views

It happened boys and girls, it finally happened they made good on their promise Jaredan I hope you and your team are beaming as brightly with pride as you have made me beam with joy. For real, the minute Graves said "Hey T. F. long time no see" or something like that I fanboyed so hard. And this is just act one, I'm really hyped right now keep it up.

That said I unfortunately do have a concern. Is this sort of lore development only going to occur when it's prefaced by such events? If so I must point out that since these events focus around the various factions what's to happen with the non aligned champions like Aatrox, Shaco and Rammus among others?

29 Comments

Tesla EffectJul 22, 20154 votes

Im surprised at how many people placed the "Yes, I trusted" vote, seeing as how much people complained and had little faith in this new lore.

biomasterJul 22, 20153 votes

idk, 7 people is 6 more then i expected LOL. But for all honesty i think 7 is no where a fraction of how many hopeful players hanged on. Plus I'm pretty sure the people who are still upset at them probably aren't gonna bother reading a post with a title like GOD BLESS RIOT.

Another possible explanation is they never actually stopped trusting riot, they simply were growing impatient. You're right there were the accusation that they weren't even working. But most of the complaints came from the admittedly poorly executed retcon and the 9 or so months following.

I personally knew it was a matter of time. And much like with every patch, i get a warm tingly feeling when I imagine this game in 5-10 years. Call me optimistic but I don't see LOL dieing in my lifetime

Tesla EffectJul 22, 20154 votes

{quoted}

idk, 7 people is 6 more then i expected LOL. But for all honesty i think 7 is no where a fraction of how many hopeful players hanged on. Plus I'm pretty sure the people who are still upset at them probably aren't gonna bother reading a post with a title like GOD BLESS RIOT.

Another possible explanation is they never actually stopped trusting riot, they simply were growing impatient. You're right there were the accusation that they weren't even working. But most of the complaints came from the admittedly poorly executed retcon and the 9 or so months following.

I personally knew it was a matter of time. And much like with every patch, i get a warm tingly feeling when I imagine this game in 5-10 years. Call me optimistic but I don't see LOL dieing in my lifetime

I agree with your mindset towards Riot and the faith in the franchise. But I have to point out that there seriously messed up individuals on the boards that just continue to bash on Riot no matter what because they, to put it bluntly, got "butthurted" by some of Riots decisions. They are just caricatures at this point and taking them seriously is not a smart choice. Like Im not like that, I move on with my life, I dont beating a dead horse until is a useless carcass, Im actually optimistic with each choice they make because they are trying to make something unique and go outside common tropes and iconography some gamers want but have fallen into (like oversexualized female characters, simplified character tropes...). I guess I cant be pessimistic at a company thats been just getting better and better at what they do with each year and Im happy that someone here has the same mindset about being optimistic like that.

biomasterJul 22, 20153 votes

yeah glad to hear it. I just really like good game companies and feel people have double standards for riot then say blizzard or one of the triple a companies. For example I tried playing hero's of the storm. Definitely some cool idea's there but I can't play a game without lag and worse yet is the clarity. I can't tell whats happening half the time. Looking at that and lol shows me why they've set themselves as arguably one of the best games out there.

sp441Jul 22, 20153 votes

A good start, but not enough.

This is where they START earning my trust back. Now they gotta keep that trust pumping by creating more lore, and more consistently released lore, and lore that doesn't have to be tied down to a regional event.

biomasterJul 22, 20152 votes

yeah that last point is my biggest concern. As I said in my post if the only time we see character development is when a event starts kinds makes me wonder how if at all they are going to further the characters that are unaffiliated.
Sure if there's ever another freljord event they might involve Aatrox. I could see Shaco getting involved with Zaun or Noxus but in general these characters are unaffiliated for a reason.

P.S. My biggest hope about the retcon is that since nocturne and fiddlesticks are no longer imprisoned by the institute we might learn what or how they are connected to Shaco.

RetroRage96Jul 22, 20152 votes

I had honestly lost hope in Riot's lore team. I am really really hoping this is just the beginning.

biomasterJul 22, 20153 votes

it is just the beginning. There is literally is still 2-3 more acts until more radio silence :D But no for real from what Jaredan said a month ago it sounds like there is no longer any coding issue or whatever impeding the narrative team's work. So unless they have stopped caring altogether (which they do, Riot, much like Nintendo, put inspirational effort into their projects) and feel they no longer even need to make excuses I think it's safe to say they ready to start letting things flow out from the waterworks. Not sure how fast it'll be or how consistent but I know it's gonna be less then 9 month amiright?

lightdragoon88Jul 22, 20152 votes

They had my trust when they gave us Xerath and Azir lore.

biomasterJul 22, 20151 votes

Sorry I'm not sure if that's read with a sad :( or happy :) voice.

lightdragoon88Jul 22, 20153 votes

Happy but tired voice.

biomasterJul 22, 20151 votes

ZZZZZZZZ.........!

WHAT NEW LORE?1? WHAT YEAR IS IT?!

GreenLoreJul 22, 20152 votes

Voted for "good start,but not enough". This lore piece was awesome and I did trust them to deliver some good lore. However it isn't able to make up for the 9 months(especially the shurima champs without a real lore),so I expect more from them in the following days.

biomasterJul 22, 20151 votes

I hear you. I kinda expect more lore to come since they tested the formatting with Azir's lore and announced the successful resolution of the coding impediments. Jaredan himself has said he is eager to bring singes lore up to date.

Now weather that means we are getting another 3 sentence long paragraph or some actually lore remains to be seen. P.S. congrats to you for having the balls to say what you voted for.

Sneak DogJul 22, 20152 votes

I would've loved this lore, if I would've cared about the characters. Knowing they could just be retconned next year, I don't.

It's a start, but I didn't doubt Riot could create high quality stories. I doubt they can get me interested though.

biomasterJul 23, 20152 votes

See the thing is that they had to retcon just for the basis of this story to occur. Just Graves and T.F. facing off outside of the league alone flys in the face of the institute's rules. That is the sort of restrictions that Riot wanted to free themselves from. Though I understand why the retcon hurt (it WAS BADLY implemented) I frankly feel your fears of another retcon are unfounded in the fact of what reason would they have for it? They've removed any possible restriction you, I or riot themselves could think of. Sometimes change hurts, but that shouldn't be a reason for you to quit/lose faith anymore then any other change in our lives is a reason to stop living.

Sneak DogJul 23, 20151 votes

First off, the Institute was not a prison, it was a place for champions to come and go. Regardless, I don't mind the retcon of the IoW too much. I didn't care too much about the setting personally. I'm sad to see the immersion go, but if Riot can't write immersive lore, so be it.

My problem is that Riot removed a champion and is fine with that. They apparently don't care about their characters, so I will not either. This kind of ruins the enjoyment I'd get out of their stories though.

They've removed any possible restriction you, I or riot themselves could think of.

Hm, how about spaceships? League needs more spaceships.

biomasterJul 23, 20152 votes

I'm not quite sure what champion you're talking about because I haven't read anything of a "removed" champion. Regardless you must be kidding if you think the death/ disappearance of a character is reason not to care about them. Why katarina and Talon's backstories are vital by the disappearance by their father. On another note who needs spaceships when you can take magical journeys Bard

Sneak DogJul 23, 20151 votes

Trundle got retconned, removed and replaced by an entirely different character. That is not the same as a death/disappearance, it's Riot that stopped caring for their character and they retconned it for no good reason.

If you want to argue Trundle didn't get removed: New Trundle is powerhungry, old is not. Old Trundle was cynical, new isn't. New Trundle is portrayed as a dumb, sly brute in his VO. Old one as a perpetually in pain, cynical brute.

You might disagree with the latter of these two arguments, but they simply have different character traits.

biomasterJul 23, 20151 votes

Ah so that's what you meant. Trundle the troll got removed and replaced by .... Trundle, who also happens to be a troll. I'll be honest, I joined league just when Aatrox was released. So this was some time after the freljord event that brought the "replacement" trundle. I've read trundles old lore and wow... It made me think of Deadpool with his cancerous body, only being kept alive cause of his regeneration. Reading his old lore I can fully understand why they "replaced" trundle. Or do you really think that "The troll that had alot of regenerative abilties" is a good character? I mean just look at wolverin or deadpool, same ability but unlike trundle's old lore they had something more then just that. They suffered things, were experimented with. Trundle's only struggle is the disease. Plus it mentions the institute so it was gonna be retconned some way or another. I just don't know how you can look at old trundle then at new and say you like the old one but don't care about the new one. Honestly he looks better, he has more personality, and frankly he's hilarious. "I'm going to crush your dreams, their in your skull right?" - Trundle

Sneak DogJul 23, 20151 votes

The old Trundle was a naïve troll heroically sacrificing himself for his tribe to save them from their dreadful curse. His tribe was grateful, for a while. Then they started shunning their savior for the very sacrifice he brought. At this, Trundle grew embittered and cynical. When given the choice of returning the curse to his tribe to save them from impending doom, Trundle chose to keep this 'gift' they so eagerly gave him and he let them rot. (Have you read his judgement by the way? It's pretty good and important in understanding Trundle.)

Him having regenerative abilities and being a troll are just the way this story was implemented. They're not essential. I would have been entirely fine with and had expected Riot to just take Trundles character and place it in a different story, making Trundle into a frost troll in the progress.

However, Riot just removed this character for no good reason. 'His story was done' was the reason they gave by the way, which should not be a reason for a character to be removed, just a reason to start telling book two or make a new story with the same character. Otherwise it means that whenever a champions story ends, he'll get removed. Recently, even Jaredan disagreed with this reason.

I just don't know how you can look at old trundle then at new and say you like the old one but don't care about the new one. Honestly he looks better, he has more personality, and frankly he's hilarious.

Whether or not the new character is any good is irrelevant (I think it's a fine character, I just don't care about him). It's a different character is what is relevant to this discussion. For all I care, he's just a new champion, but one that caused an old one to be removed.

My issue with the current lore is that any character could just get removed and replaced at Riots whims, and Trundle is proof that Riot is entirely willing to do so.

biomasterJul 23, 20151 votes

Well, I'll be honest I had a much longer and more well thought out post written but I accidentally refreshed page and as I don't feel spending another hour or so I'll try and keep it brief.

The issue with old trundle wasn't that his story was finished more so as what the finished product was after the story. Trundle had no reasons left. Tribe dead, a cure being lethal. Not only is the entire Bio thrown out the window because of the judgement but it also left Trundle as nothing more then a grumpy Troll. Honestly the way that judgement ended he could've just as easily walked out of the institute and never show his face in Valoran again. And that was why the took another crack at trundle. They didn't replace him as you say but Riot genuinely tried to do Trundle right, old Trundle's stories were fundamentally flawed. I'm not saying new Trund is perfect but I know it's a lot better.

Secondly new Trundle and old Trundle are the SAME trundle. If you look at the core of the stories both new and old you'll see that there's very similar core in each.

Both new and old Trundle have bad governors. New with the foolish chieftain while old trundle had the Sages of the tribe that erroneously wanted to rid the plague from their people.

Both new and old Trundle's were disrespected by their kinsmen New trundle being openly mocked for challenging the chief while old trundle was bullied.

Both put their lives on the line for their people. New trundle with the risky journey to find the weapon he spoke of while the old Trundle took the burden of the plague.

Both return as heroes, New trundle with the weapon and old trundle allowing for his people to be freed from the plague.

The only 2 changes at the core are important improvements that makes New trundle's lore so much healthier. 1st He now is connect to Lissandra, another champion. Before we never saw Trundle interact with another champion, and weren't even lead to believe he would have any drive or reason to do so.

2nd instead of killing off his entire tribe like old trundle did by not giving them the plague back but instead new trundle kills the foolish leaders alone, and leads his people to greater heights. Make no mistake, he does this for his people, his lore states he fears what would become of them if they were lead by the chief any longer.

So same story at the core, just an ending that open's doors for him AND his people, rather then closing them.

If is for this reason I just can't understand why you would supposedly enjoy Old trundle's lore, yet turn your nose up as a new one when I've clearly shown how similar they are. This statement will be hyperbolic and I'm sorry if it offends you or other's but to me it feels as vain and wrong as no longer wanting to be freinds with someone because they had a sex change operation.

It's the EXACT same person, but because the package is now wrapped differently you reject it. I know you're entitled to your opinion but I simply cannot see it in such a way.

Sneak DogJul 23, 20152 votes

Their stories are similar, have a similar setup and similar events. Yet they do not feature the same troll. The trolls pretty much were before their respective pivotal events. But what they become after this event, after the opportunity to save their people, is completely different.

The old troll, after this pivotal event, turned bitter and cynical. His VO shows his pain, his judgement shows his cynicism. The new troll turns power-hungry. He wants to rule the Freljord. Just listen to the new voice over, it completely oozes power-hunger, a trait the old Trundle never had.

They have different core character traits. They are different characters.

Many of you have mentioned that this new iteration of Trundle is a selfish creature, but in Trundle’s old Judgment, he reveals a darker shade of his personality. Trundle learns that bearing the curse for his people didn’t save them at all and they are, in fact, still doomed to die. He’s granted the option to save him… but he doesn’t. The bitterness and scorn he feels at being treated as an unworthy runt his whole life finally catches up to him. He leaves them to rot.

New Trundle undergoes a similar transformation, though it may be a touch more subtle. When he becomes the Troll King, the power may have begun to go to his head. He’s never been looked up to, he’s never been treated with respect, he’s so used to humiliation that the right to rule has added a darkness to him that may or may not grow into something more.

Even their writers at the time knew that they are two different characters.

They even started off with the premise of a new character. They didn't intend to just switch over Trundle into a new story. They took a new character and preserved only some elements:

if Trundle was going to be a frost troll, how could we make him into the “coolest” frost troll he could be? How could we incorporate the key elements of Trundle’s personality into this new narrative? What we came to was an approach that preserved what we felt were key elements of Trundle’s personality, but with a fresh new identity that built him into the story of the Freljord and provided huge opportunities for storytelling in the future.

biomasterJul 23, 20151 votes

WOW. I didn't even know Riot released a statement saying basically what i just did, that would've saved me an hour or so. That said let me point how new trundle is as different as new sion or new Gangplank. These characters are one and the same. As Riot clearly said it. There intrest is preserving their core. Both Riot and I read the new and old trundle's lore and came to the conclusion it was preserved, as it was.

Remember when I brought up an individual that had their gender changed, but at their CORE were still the same person? Basically what I'm hearing is that you acknowledge the core was kept, but refuse to accept new trundle as old trundle because of the pivots that were necessary to save his story?

If wanting what's best for your people is power hungry then sure Trundle is power hungry, both old and new. Or was Trundle's constant dreams of being admired by his kind not a hunger for power?

I'll say it again, New and Old are the same Trundle from start to finish. Just as choose your own adventure books have a same character go through different event so too does Trundle. Just because he took a different pivot doesn't change him into a new character that "replaced" the old one. the way I see it, Trundle's old lore is when he picks the "bad" or "dead" end. While the newer lore for him his when he doesn't turn to page xx and instead turns to page xx and can continues the story towards the "good" or "happy" end.

Plus what riot says only adds to my point, both started off with good intentions but by the end did gain a darker side, I don't know how you'd call that different CORE character traits.

Sneak DogJul 23, 20152 votes

I linked it before: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3307295&page=65#post36508044

Remember when I brought up an individual that had their gender changed, but at their CORE were still the same person? Basically what I'm hearing is that you acknowledge the core was kept, but refuse to accept new trundle as old trundle because of the pivots that were necessary to save his story?

Their base motivations are the same, their core stories are very similar, but they have different core character traits that they developed from their choices.

Being cynical and embittered is different than power-hungry.

Or was Trundle's constant dreams of being admired by his kind not a hunger for power?

It's comparable, though I wouldn't call it the same (Draven is power-hungry?). However, old Trundle pretty much got rid of this.

he way I see it, Trundle's old lore is when he picks the "bad" or "dead" end. While the newer lore for him his when he doesn't turn to page xx and instead turns to page xx and can continues the story towards the "good" or "happy" end.

Events and choices change people. At the start of his story, Trundle was a different character than at the end.

biomasterJul 23, 20152 votes

To your first point, Yes, we agree, their base motivations are the same and their core stories are similar. They do indeed make different choices. My only argument here is that new trundle is a cynic. He saw something wrong with a chief that everyone else in his tribe were happily following, that sounds cynical to me.

Second, I have no arguement, although yes Draaaven is power hungry, the power is a means to an end. In this case the power get's him attention.

Finally your are correct Events and choices do change people, but that doesn't make them entirely different people.For example in bioshock no one debates if the main character that saves the little sisters is different from the main character who sacrifices the little sisters. That what I'm saying here, even though they may be different at the end because of the choices they made doesn't make them 2 separate entities.

You can't say old trundle is old trundle because he chose the red pill while new trundle chose the blue pill for example because anyone in that situation is pretty much 50/50 for either.

Sneak DogJul 23, 20152 votes

even though they may be different at the end because of the choices they made doesn't make them 2 separate entities.

Why aren't they two separate characters? This might just be a western rpg thing, where the player heavily shapes the protagonists character, effectively meaning every player has his own character.

You can't say old trundle is old trundle because he chose the red pill while new trundle chose the blue pill for example because anyone in that situation is pretty much 50/50 for either.

But the consequences of this 50/50 choice may shape their characters in different manners, meaning they evolve into different characters.

biomasterJul 23, 20151 votes

well look's like we've come to a conclusion then. I have no argument with that statement and in fact I very much love fire emblem and the direction their taking by trying to give the avatar or sway over the story thus giving him/her more choices. My only regret is that is that I can't convince you to care for the newer Trundle.

Sneak DogJul 23, 20151 votes

I'm not saying it's bad. I love those kinds of choices. Adds replayability, gives the game a bit more of a personal feel. I'm wandering off...

But no, I can't care about a character when I have evidence the writers don't care about their characters. Even if Riot supposedly changed by now, they should give me the evidence of such, by fixing what lost them my faith.