Who wants less new champion and more VGUS per year?

Xodiathe4bdn1·Aug 12, 2017·243 votes·22,228 views

Not only would it put effort into 'remodeling' the old adaptations so that more people play with them more and buy their skins But it could also give riot more time to work on any new champions and insure that they have their own individual themes as well as compete with the top tier champions Regardless of lists and mentions I think as many as 80 champions could use the vgu treatment

I know rioters have spoken about merging the vgu and new champ teams but I've yet to hear if this will really change when a new or updated champion gets released

191 Comments

RiotReav3Aug 12, 2017120 votes

Next year you will likely see a more 50/50 split if not 60/40 in favor of VGUs

Edit: copy and pasting my comment below since this is at the top and I still see people think that 60/40 means 6 new champs and 4 VGUs a year which isn't what that means at all.

There's seems to be some confusion over the 60/40 thing so let me clear it up a bit.

When I say 60/40 or 50/50 I'm not saying 6 new champs a year and 4 VGUs a year as we don't really try to get a certain amount of champions done a year. When I give those ratios I'm referring to the amount of resources dedicated to new champs vs VGUs.

To add some more context we have 5 teams that can make either a VGU or a New Champ. Each team has one project in full production and 1 project in Ideation/discovery. This means that at any given time there is 10 champions in some stage of development.

In the past, 3 of the teams only made new champs and the other 2 only did VGUs which led to our total resources being 60/40 in favor of New Champs. Now we have it set up so that any team can do either a VGU or a new champ. Currently we have 5 new champs and 5 VGUs in various stages of development, so our allocation is 50/50 at the moment.

What specific time in a year or what percentage of these land in a given calendar year is unpredictable as we are more concerned with shipping something when it's ready rather than shipping a certain amount of champions in a year.

SpideraxeAug 12, 201711 votes

Hey Reav3 can I ask what this year looks to be with the remaining releases since we so far have 4/4 right now with Urgot, Eve, Warwick, Galio, Kayn, Ornn, Xayah and Rakan

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201716 votes

It's hard to say what a specific year will be like since release dates can and do shift. I can say that the ratio we had in development this year was roughly 60/40 in favor of new champs

SpideraxeAug 12, 20176 votes

Sweet, love to see some more VGUs

Zach6508Aug 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's hard to say what a specific year will be like since release dates can and do shift. I can say that the ratio we had in development this year was roughly 60/40 in favor of new champs

That seems fair. Next year will be 60/40 for VGU, so are you just going to alternate or something?

RiotReav3Aug 12, 20173 votes

The current champions in development are 50/50 - New vs VGUs

Valor BotAug 12, 201785 votes

if not 60/40 in favor of VGUs

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/242/631/382.gif

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201758 votes

Technically we have shifted internally to a 50/50 split. The reason I say it could possibly end up 60/40 next year is that if we end up shipping a uneven number of champions then it will appear as 60/40 even if we had a even amount in development

SchmidttyGamesAug 12, 20178 votes

I sincerely hope that when you guys change Kayle and Morgana that you keep in tact that which makes each of them feel good to play or suck to play against.

Kayle at 4 items+ is a faceroll Goddess. Morgana's Q is intentionaly perverse.

These things should remain! :p

THE RlVER KlNGAug 12, 201733 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JIuimTbs,comment-id=0003000100000001,timestamp=2017-08-12T18:41:46.815+0000)

I sincerely hope that when you guys change Kayle and Morgana that you keep in tact that which makes each of them feel good to play or suck to play against.

Kayle at 4 items+ is a faceroll Goddess.

what? thats exactly the reason kayle needs a vgu shes a braindead ball of stats champion that is horrifically unfun to face

EROTIC RAID BOSSAug 12, 20174 votes

Wasn't this year pretty even? Camille was like december or january. Then xayah and rakan then kayn then ornn. Vs Warwick Galio urgot evelynn. Even if we count Camille (and I think she was before Christmas) that's 5 to 4

KillaburnAug 12, 20172 votes

exclude camille cause were talking about year and btw, there's another new champ after eve :D to make it 60/40 favor of new champs

EROTIC RAID BOSSAug 12, 20171 votes

Oh ok that's still only 5 to 4

LeyinAug 12, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JIuimTbs,comment-id=0003000400000000,timestamp=2017-08-12T16:56:29.682+0000)

Oh ok that's still only 5 to 4

I think the schedule will be:

August: Ornn: 1. Xayah & Rakan Team September: Evelynn Galio Team October: new champion: 2. Xayah Rakan Team November: Pre-season : Runes December new champion: Kayn Team January: Swain: Urgot Team

This will change next year , because this system is based on 3 Champ teams and 2 VGUS Teams and the 2 months that are not able to fill by the VGU teams are mid-season and pre-season

TomekszAug 12, 20171 votes

There will be only 1 more champion this year

LeyinAug 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

There will be only 1 more champion this year but what is about reav3 40/60 for this year, we had 4 Vgus, so why we shouldn't get 6 Champs to complete it.

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201715 votes

There's seems to be some confusion over the 60/40 thing so let me clear it up a bit.

Electro522Aug 13, 20171 votes

This sounds pretty awesome.

Since this is news to us, do you think we'll see a new champ roadmap announcing 4 new VGU's in development, or is that WAY too optimistic?

RiotReav3Aug 13, 20179 votes

Not likely. We generally don't talk about VGUs until the go into full production as they have a chance of being canceled or ice boxed before that. They will generally go into production at a staggered rate.

The champions roadmap will probably come after every 2 Champion releases, so after Ornn and Eve I will do a new one. They will generally talk about the next new champ, the next VGU going into production as well as go into deeper details on the VGU currently in full production. So the next one should include some info on the next new champ, a deeper dive into the Swain VGU and a announcement of who the next VGU after Swain will be.

If there is any details on the smaller gameplay updates like Xin and such I will also include that stuff.

Halodjin TyrAug 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not likely. We generally don't talk about VGUs until the go into full production as they have a chance of being canceled or ice boxed before that. They will generally go into production at a staggered rate.

The champions roadmap will probably come after every 2 Champion releases, so after Ornn and Eve I will do a new one. They will generally talk about the next new champ, the next VGU going into production as well as go into deeper details on the VGU currently in full production. So the next one should include some info on the next new champ, a deeper dive into the Swain VGU and a announcement of who the next VGU after Swain will be.

If there is any details on the smaller gameplay updates like Xin and such I will also include that stuff.

I gotta ask, not flaming or anything just curious, why was the decision made to push back eve's vgu in favour of Xin ?

SharjoAug 13, 20178 votes

There was no push back. Xin's being done by live gameplay. Eve's being done by one of the champion teams. No change has happened. If Xin comes out first it's because he was a smaller job to begin with.

RiotReav3Aug 13, 20174 votes

Xin has had no effect on Eves release date as Eve and Xin are not being worked on by the same people.

World EnderAug 13, 20171 votes

What about Aatrox? Before Swain was announced he was supposed to be after Evelynn, but now he's after Swain. Was this always the plan, or did he get pushed back somehow?

Valor BotAug 13, 20173 votes

Aatrox is not a full VGU, Aatrox is a pure GU (gameplay update). The two are done by entirely different teams.

TimX24968BAug 12, 20176 votes

I have a question thats probably a bit better suited for an askriot, yet it has not been answered there.

"what makes you guys decide between what kind of VGU a champion gets, such as "modernization" versus "complete overhaul" versus "in between" does it have anything to do with the teams themselves?

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201725 votes

It's not black and white. A champion could be like 60% moderanization and 40% over hall for example. We reach these conclusions through lots of meetings and discussions, playtests and looking through a ton of insights data and surveys. We also rely on on gamer gut as players who love and play this game as well.

TimX24968BAug 12, 20174 votes

but how do you decide on what gets kept and what gets thrown away?

Electro522Aug 12, 201712 votes

I'd say it depends on the champion.

Take Urgot for example. Long ago, Riot said that trying to find a theme that worked for Urgot was really difficult, and thats why it took them so long to give him a VGU.

But then, Warwick brought about the "modernization" term, and thus, Riot were finally able to understand where to take Urgot. They didn't need to completely redesign him, they just had to make him fit into the new Runeterra.

As for a champ like Galio, most likely, someone had a really good idea for a theme, and so they took it and ran with it.

LXIIAug 13, 20172 votes

Urgot kept like half of one of his abilities.. if that's not an overhaul I don't know what is.

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201710 votes

Every Champion is different. There's is no equation for what we keep or not. It involves lots of discussion and experimentation until we finally settle on those answers.

Gosh DarnAug 12, 20175 votes

Can the skin team please focus on giving every champion at least 1 decent skin before giving Ahri 30 more while you're at it? I'd like Dragonmaster Swain or a Cass skin that isn't shit and actually has new particle effects. There's enough to fix and rebalance as is without introducing a bunch of a new champions.

SanKakUAug 12, 20173 votes

Isn't it already >60/<40 in favor of VGUs +GUs?

I honestly feel like GUs are just as important to the game as VGUs and they can already feel like too many if there are just 1 or 2 that are done poorly.

Dusk Mane RengarAug 13, 20173 votes

Please tell me that at least one GU is for Rengar.

FasmodeyAug 12, 20179 votes

I like new champions, they add a different atmosphere to story. And I think they're necessary to explore Runeterra.

So no, I would prefer 50/50.

MogarlAug 12, 20178 votes

But haven't 70%+ of VGU added just as much narrative as a new champion? With the Retcon in place giving a VGU has the same narrative impact as adding a new champ.

abdollah56273Aug 12, 20179 votes

Well yes, the roster is already saturated and with each new champion getting added, that means more and more champions that need to be balanced. Which means that champs that are already neglected are neglected even more. Not to mention the ongoing exponential power creep that is going on right now.

I mean sure, new champs mean that more people are going to buy them, which means more income for Riot. But how long can this model go on? With each new champion getting added, it'll be more and more difficult to balance the game.

So yes, I'm all in favor of focusing on VGUs. Even a 70/30 proportion would be OK for me. By focusing on VGUs, it also makes each new champion feel more special, as opposed to releasing a new champ every month. Aesthetically speaking, it would also give LOL a more unified look, as opposed to the contrast between Mundo's model and Kayn's.

KillaburnAug 12, 20178 votes

i want that too. i like new champs too but they need to prioritize VGU now in order to finish it up(their whole design and story) and after that more champs in the future. i think a little sacrifice is enough.

ZyraniumAug 12, 20176 votes

I prefer having new champions, but it's 50/50, I like VGU too and Lore updates

I only need a region update for Kumungu Jungles, a new VO for Zyra and a new champion coming from the Jungles...

Eve's update hyped me and I can't wait for Morgana and Kayle's VGU too !

Xodiathe4bdn1Aug 12, 20173 votes

I second kumungu jungle lore update with a nice epic icon to go with it

I can imagine it now;

The wild untamed amazon of runeterra

With its rare, exotic and extremely dangerous wildlife
Erratic magic that permeates around the area, giving sentience to the jungle itself
ancient ruins filled with treasures and secrets of a long since lost civilization
there is only one law : the law of the KUMUNGU Jungle

Toru ItaiAug 13, 20176 votes

Visual updates: yes please, that'd be nice. Reworks: no I've lost too many champs to reworks.

ModWulf HelhammerAug 12, 20175 votes

~~DIFFERENT. ~~


~~TEAMS. ~~

~~How many times does this need to be said?!?~~


Aight, I stand corrected. Still, the idea that new champ development should be slower or even outright stopped is just absurd, and should never happen.

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201718 votes

It's not anymore

ModWulf HelhammerAug 12, 20173 votes

Welp ¯\(ツ)/¯

When was it announced? I checked the July champ roadmap and I didn't notice it there.

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201713 votes

The June roadmap

NinjaGuy69Aug 12, 20172 votes

So then what's going to happen to the Champ Up team once you finish updating all the older champions? My guess is that they're going to leave Riot games and practice for the World Kazoo Championships. Thoughts?

RiotReav3Aug 12, 201719 votes

I don't think we will ever run out of champs to update.

As time goes on more Champions get out of date.

I Main SwainAug 12, 20172 votes

do you think it would ever be possible for riot to in a sense "reverse" an update, like say take sion years down the line and give him a kit with a feel more like the original terminator?