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You know, I'm not a big fan of the new Noxus and Demacia.

Knalxz··4 votes·900 views

Before the two city states actually had good and bad about them now it seems like Demacia is this golden gem of humanity while Noxus is just this terrible place filled with terrible people and everything is just terrible.

Now Zaun and Piltover still keep their Strict Overlord vs Free Madman style but the Big Two are just parodies of themselves now.

Each had pros and cons with the biggest being the most obvious. Back in the old Noxus anyone who was strong enough and could constantly show their power would rise regardless of their race, gender or family status. While at any point if someone felt like they were better then you, they could just flat out kill you for your roll with no one batting an eye.

The old Demacia was a chivalrous place of honor, justice of horrible classism and sexism. The preached freedom for those who'd follow their way of life, anyone who didn't just wasn't allowed. Another thing to note was now there isn't a single Demacian champion who didn't come from a wealthy family. The vise versa of that was, there isn't a single Noxian champion who wasn't a mass murderer.

21 Comments

Azure Dancer10 votes

Um quinn isnt from a wealthy family as far as i remember.

JhonTeemon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azure Dancer,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IR8pwhOE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-09T12:32:40.816+0000)

Um quinn isnt from a wealthy family as far as i remember.

poor girls are hot

Epicurus3 votes

Correct. There's no evidence Taric is either.

Warlord Dienekes6 votes

It's true that Taric never says he was noble. But his story makes way more sense if he is.

We know that Garen knew him since childhood. Since Garen probably went to some high class snazzy schooling Taric probably did as well.

Despite having no real talent for it. He was put in a position of command in a medieval-esque army. Which just screams old aristocracy.

Epicurus2 votes

Expected to serve as a stalwart guardian of Demacia, Taric’s life was meant to be the model of focused, selfless dedication to the ideals of king and country.

Interpretations may vary, but to me this seems like Taric was a lower or middle class child conscripted into the military with no choice.

Garen is referred to as his "long-time friend", which doesn't necessarily mean childhood friend. Seeins as Garen joined the military at twelve, there's not much difference. They likely bonded while training together.

Taric was not talentless. He just choose not to apply himself because warfare clashed with his ideals.

I suppose Taric could have been noble or common, it doesn't really impact his story.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

Yeah, the passage you just quoted is basically the description of what every medieval nobleman was supposed to be. Defend the king's peace, uphold the decrees of the king, and so on. Lower class medieval people did not do that. Lower class guys make food and other products to be taxed, or if they were lucky, they sold things.

Now I'm not saying Taric is the son of an archduke, but he definitely sounds like a landed knight family. Which was, at the time, about 1% of the population (using the medieval England as the basis here). That's upper class. Knights were mostly what we would consider upper class.

Taric is constantly referenced as missing out on drills, and getting in trouble. In a non-aristocrat focused military he wouldn't have made it past sergeant. But he gets put in charge of an entire outpost, instead of just being demoted to infantry as you would expect of a commoner. If Taric does not have aristocratic ties to cushion his mistakes then the Demacian military basis things on merit. And if Taric was considered one of the best to be promoted as a military leader they must have the worst recruits.

Epicurus1 votes

You make a compelling argument. I admit I'm not overly knowledgeable on medieval culture.

Knalxz1 votes

When I spoke I wasn't talk about the original lore for LoL aka before Quinn was introduced and before the Taric rework.

Epicurus9 votes

Demacia is this golden gem of humanity

What?

Vayne exists. Garen executes people without trial. Lux lives in constant fear of being exiled into the Annulment slums. Fiora had to kill her own father because she didn't want to marry a stranger. Demacians like to think that they are the pinnacle of civilisation, but they are a s flawed as any other human society.

Knalxz1 votes

That is literally what I said in my post. can you at the very least read it before cherry picking?

TheHappyReaperz7 votes

You don't like how Demacia is the golden gem of society, and at the same time, acknowledge it isn't.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Knalxz1 votes

Seriously did you even read the OP?

What i liked about the old Demacia wasn't that they were the golden Gem but that they tried to be.

Outside looking in, you'd think they were perfect but when you see what they are about, with the two biggest issues being classism and sexism you realize that their justice is what they say is jsutice.

Epicurus1 votes

You're post seems to say that Demacia used to be morally grey, but has become overwhelmingly good. The reverse is true.

Knalxz1 votes

What makes them morally grey now?

Is there even a bad thing they've done recently in the new lore?

Epicurus2 votes

Everything I listed in my original comment for starters.

ABlueQuaker6 votes

The issue is that they were never meant to represent good and evil - that prevents plot progression. They're meant to represent Oppressive Order and Uncontrollable Chaos. They're essentially Runeterra's modern iteration of what the Wardens and Marauders were.

I like the direction shift that Riot has implemented. You could hardly say Demacia are 'good' when you consider the morality of the whole Galio situation.

LordHippoman4 votes

They really weren't all that gray before, which is something Riot's talked about as a factor in their rewrites. All Demacia's classism was mostly just implied and rarely outright stated, and there were still characters like Quinn and Shyvana who were poor/a freaking dragon in the upper ranks. The sexism was only added with Fiora's bio, part of the new lore, and I still think it doesn't make sense, with the Prince's most trusted guard and the scout captain both being women. If Demacia's really that misogynistic, Jarvan IV's gotta be super progressive.

Old Noxus also had slavery, gladitorial death-pits, commited genocide on the minotaurs, launched chemical nukes on Ionia, assassinated, like, a shitton of people like Galio's creator, etc. All the good in having a system where people could make a name for themselves is sorta scattered when the method of doing so is "murder, like, a ton of people."

It's worth noting, we haven't seen the new Noxus biographies/stories yet, and those could put things in a different light. Already their Universe description is way more positive.

Wrathof3004 votes

  1. Noxus is due for new lore. The only lore regarding Noxus that we have gotten intentionally makes them look bad.

  2. Quinn isn't from a wealthy family.

  3. If your a mage in Demacia, if you're not exiled you're executed and sexism still plays a role in their culture (see fiora's lore).

Horidas1 votes

Demacia definitely isn't the GREATEST. For example, Demacia was built by people fearing the Rune Wars, and therefore fear magic. Lux's whole dilemma is because she was born with magic aptitude (i think). People who have magical power are cast aside (somehow). Petricite counters and absorbs magic, and Demacia constantly uses it against any magical forces. Noxus doesn't seem like it could always be evil, just more chaotic and darker in nature. There's definitely potential for chaotic good forces in Noxus. We don't know his new lore yet, but, Urgot could end up being an antihero type given he has it out for the chem barons of Zaun atm.

GenoXx1 votes

I can understand how you feel. So far we have only been gettin the bad of Noxus...even after they state Noxus is gray. If so, you shouldn't be releasing so many stories that makes Noxus look even worse the the pre-reton. Child soliders like Kayne, Taliyah's recruitment then leave, it's only being focused around that point and even if they do have some justice in stored for Noxus, they shouldn't be releasing this side of them first.

Piltover and Zaun were fitting, but so champion stories could have been handled better(Some, not all related to them) Demacia's is good so far, It doesnt just focus on the the shining good side of it. In ever place like that theres always shady things going down behind the scenes. The nobles in Fiora's lore is an example.

Digielf1 votes

Both places have people of many varieties its not just light and dark

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