Narrative in 2018

Spideraxe·Feb 16, 2018·28 votes·13,687 views

Narrative in 2018 - Nexus

Key notes are Ionia, Bilgewater, Darkin and Void lore in 2018

204 Comments

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 16, 201815 votes

Some other factions we’re looking at hitting in the coming months, Nagakabouros willing:

The Void, and some of its abyssal mysteries

Ionia, in all its harmonious (and disharmonious) glory

Bilgewater, and the dark, cold seas around it

The mysterious darkin…

Great, it looks like Bandle City will be still a mistery in 2018

GreenLoreFeb 16, 20184 votes

Yeah I really hope we'll get a Bandle update later this year(after all the above mentioned are the next updates,not all of them).

Though given our context it sounds like the next champ after the void archer will be a bilgewater one,which would make the chance for us to get a bandle city champ this year really low.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20186 votes

Yordles don't only live in Bandle City, of course... ;-)

Chromatic EagleFeb 16, 20183 votes

We know they don't, but we haven't had a Yordle champion that specifically lives in Bandle City in years. We're hoping that one from that region will shed some light on Yordles and their culture.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20188 votes

Then, if we were to see a new champ from Bandle City, or a VGU of an existing one, seems like that'd be the PERFECT time to talk about something like that.

Duly noted!

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 201812 votes

As I said a moment ago, it's not off the table... We only listed the top 4! ;-)

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20186 votes

Any questions, guys - I'm right here. :-)

MonkeytenderFeb 16, 20186 votes

Hey, I’m gonna post my question here too in case this is a more convenient place for this discussion. I’m super thrilled to see this article, ESPECIALLY with the promise (threat?) of new Void lore, but I am curious about one thing:

I’m surprised to hear you guys are revisiting Bilgewater again, considering I’d argue Bilgewater (especially MF) has gotten far and away the most lore since the Great Revamp, what with the 5 bios and color stories, the two short stories, the comic, the cinematic, and the website. What made you guys decide to tackle them again as opposed to something like the Freljord or Bandle City?

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20187 votes

It's on our wishlist of things we'd like to tackle in 2018. There is some inconsistency in the way certain bits of lore have been presented - if we got to revisit Bilgewater, I'd want to make sure we were adding to the lore and clarifying it, to make it more enjoyable for players. :-)

Freljord and Bandle City aren't off the table, though...

Warlord DienekesFeb 16, 20183 votes

I’m curious what about the Bilgewater lore you think was lacking in player enjoyment. Since usually the Bilgewater event tops the list in best lore events Riot has done thus far.

And while I can only speak for myself, Miss Fortune is in my opinion your best character. Relatable themes, intelligent planning, a touch of badass, and a story that hasn’t devolved into another boring ancient evil.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20185 votes

I never said lacking enjoyment - just making it more enjoyable! :-P

Doubleplusgood enjoyment.

ErablierFeb 16, 20183 votes

It was said that part of the reason you would want to do just lore updates was that it could possibly inspire a champions future update when they need it. Would there also be a chance that when the update does happen the new lore is tossed out for something extra new?

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20183 votes

I would try my hardest to argue against that. I'd need a very compelling reason for me to be persuaded that was a good idea, but I'm always happy to be proven wrong!

Warlord DienekesFeb 16, 20182 votes

Well... Pantheon.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20184 votes

If we knew any champion was going to be updated, we wouldn't create anything for them in the meantime.

For example, we knew about Swain from January last year - so old Swain got no lore love until the VGU. :-)

Warlord DienekesFeb 16, 20182 votes

I mean more. When Panth gets reworked. You could totally toss out his current lore. It’s horrible. You’d make me very happy.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20185 votes

Haha, duly noted!

Gutrot10Feb 16, 20183 votes

Has ANYONE ever survived entering the void??

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20183 votes

Certainly! I can think of at least two champions, right away... ;-)

ErablierFeb 16, 20181 votes

Does Malzahar count? He was summoned to the void rather then someone like Kassadin who had to force his way into it to save his daughter

NaalithFeb 16, 20181 votes

I'm guessing they're either talking about Kassadin and Nami (who may have entered the Void based on her comic) or Kassadin and the new champion. If the new champion is a void monster or something evil it could be Malz though.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20184 votes

Walking up to the Void and having a little look around isn't the same as literally going down there.

Kassadin and Malzahar both entered the Void at some point or another, regardless of how or why. :-)

NaalithFeb 16, 20182 votes

Ohhhh gotcha. I wasn't thinking of Malzahar just because of how I interpreted the word survive. I guess he did get what he wanted though, so maybe the Void didn't completely reshape him.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20185 votes

Yeah, I mean the dude looks pretty normal. I think I saw him in the pub the other day, actually - just minding his own business, etc...

I mean, he WAS levitating and summoning voidling beasts from the bowels of the earth. But that's just Mal! ;-P

MidoriyaShonenFeb 16, 20184 votes

A personal lore question I had on my mind. I don't know if you are the writer on these parts, but I'll try my luck anyway. Does Shen actually kill the spirits he kills in his lore? What I mean is, when he kills spirits, are they definitely dead, or on a respawn timer like the monsters from Percy Jackson?

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20183 votes

I'm not a writer, but I'd urge you to find one and ask them! :-)

Blue Moon WolfFeb 16, 20182 votes

Does Wukong still have magic abilities in his lore that he may unlock at some point in the future?

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20184 votes

Wukong was confirmed as a vastaya last year, so he is presumably has a very deep connection to magic and the spirit realm. :-)

https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/monkeyking/

PsilocybiniumFeb 16, 20182 votes

sir, are we gonna see some human-related things about leblanc? i mean how was her childhood? did she has friends at some moment? idk some things that make a charcter easy to relate to, because right now we dont really know anything about her, i now thats her intention lmao, but i still want to be able to imagine her in daily life situations, it would be cool*[leblanc-funny]*

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20184 votes

It's very much like an episode of 'The Office'.

Except with magic and swords, obviously.

Hovering HentaiFeb 16, 20183 votes

"Disharmonious"

Is that a reference to one of our resident Mid lane Burst Syndra Queens??

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20184 votes

It's actually the Piano of Reynoldzor, an ancient artifact kept hidden in the Temple of Burtonis. The piano is said to be so out of tune, that a single note can blow out the eardrums of even the hardiest top-laner.

(NOT CANON) :-P

Hovering HentaiFeb 16, 20182 votes

Such a shame to see an artifact with such a fleshed out story confirmed as non canon xD.

Perhaps Sona could have helped sort out the dissonance. Or perhaps Jhin's declaration is correct. Discord is a necessary contrast

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20184 votes

All of this, and more...

DianaIsMyWifeFeb 16, 20182 votes

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO EXPAND MORE ABOUT THE LUNARI AND THEIR GODDESS DIANA? Did Diana Rebuild/Restore the lunari? Did She Finally Defeated Leona? (For good this Time) Is Diana Leading the Lunari As their Queen? Explain the Lore Behind Lunar Goddess Diana ( Since every Skin gets a Lore/side story now ) Whats happening (call me a traitor for asking this) with the Solari ?

Finally am glad Amumu found A goddess And the TRUE light to follow :D https://i.imgur.com/QJtDA6H.jpg

Diana Diana LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNARI FOREEEEEEEVER Diana Diana

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20182 votes

Every skin gets lore? I'm unaware of this... ;-P I mean, they get a sometimes-jokey short description...

I think it would be really cool to delve a little more into Diana and Leona, for sure. But think how mad the Leona mains would be if we had her defeated once and for all, suddenly out of nowhere!

Furor NexisFeb 16, 20182 votes

Speaking of writers, I remember that a while back it was stated that there wasn't a concrete 'narrative' team per say, as once a champion who's been locked into development, it's the Foundations team who handles that, with guidance from whoever came up with the champion concept. Has there ever been an idea to form an actual narrative team considering the decision to get heavy into the lore work?

HalcyonDwellerFeb 16, 20183 votes

Hi Scathlocke,

I really want to discuss the Varus update. I both liked it and disliked it.

I think part of the reason that some people received it so poorly is that his conviction / motivation was not shown as strongly in the new lore as the old one. In the old one he accepted evil power (that he fully and rationally knew was evil) into himself, in the new lore he did it because, "screw the prophecy" which just doesn't carry as much weight as knowing would. The sacrifice he made by giving himself to the power would have been way more impressive if he knew he was giving himself over to evil.

I would have been 100% happy with the update if he had taken up the power or accepted it already knowing how evil the power was, but instead I'm left feeling a little bit disappointed. It wouldn't even have required much change to the new story in order to preserve this.

Is there any chance you folks at Riot could do more to avoid doing this kind of unnecessary removal of motives/conviction with characters in the future? It would be nice if the team did more to try to understand what it is that people relate to in characters so that doesn't get lost in character updates.

If you have ever seen the anime Boku No Hero, picture the character Stain. He's undeniably in the wrong, but he's cool because he had the conviction to do what many others would not be willing to do if they were in his shoes.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20186 votes

Thanks for reaching out :-)

I agree with you on many points, and we absolutely will try to avoid this sort of thing, going forward. In the case of Varus, the story content and video was all already decided before I started at Riot, but I was interested to see how it was received.

I'd much rather spend time foreshadowing changes in a way that feels organic and true to existing characters, than completely overhauling in one blast.

And I hope you'll hold us to our word on that, and keep checking in to let us know how you think we're doing. :-)

Chromatic EagleFeb 16, 20185 votes

Well it seems like ultimately (I don't know if Riot stated as such, but it feels that way), if there's new lore that Riot finds more compelling than the old lore, then they'll go for the new one, knowing that fans of the old lore will feel jilted. It's been that way for a few vgus, and even regular lore updates. It's hard to hold Riot to their word, when it seems like they just do whatever.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20184 votes

As I said, hopefully we'll start to build your trust on things like this.

Old lore is not necessarily good lore, any more than new lore would be automatically better. I'd always prefer to develop the setting, rather than overhaul and retcon bits of it.

dimiondoFeb 17, 20184 votes

The Varus incident tbh was just horrid especially due to the fact that Varus's lore was good lore and didn't hold the dark and secret past problem like most of the old and current lore. He now has the problem of the dank and secret past while also possessing the pantheon problem where he isn't even the same person now. Honestly that event by itself makes me doubt future lore. There was so much misinformation to the point where it wasn't funny. Honestly does the narrative team actually consider that a success because there were rioters claiming that it was a month ago? Also how do you actually plan to not surprise us with the lore updates because they all sort of just pop up randomly with maybe a notice a month beforehand.

Also what happend to that Narrative communication about Varus that DyQuil promised a month ago? Is this meant to be it, i assume so but just making sure.

Also please for the love of god take Aatrox's old lore into account and do not make him varus 2.0

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 17, 20189 votes

I think it's been said already, but Narrative was not brought in on Varus until quite a long time after the video's lore direction had been created. Certainly all of that content was decided before I started working here, so I can't really speak about it with any authority.

Honestly, though - no, I personally don't believe that was a successful delivery of new content. Regardless of whether or not the actual ideas resonated with a majority or minority of players, the messaging of the update felt inconsistent, and it has left a sense of dissonance between the lore and the in-game champion. I will see what we can do about that dissonance, going forward.

I will also speak to DyQuil and find out what he meant about the communication though - I don't think anyone on Narrative has anything to offer, retrospectively, about the Varus update.

TerraRisingFeb 17, 20185 votes

{quoted}

I think it's been said already, but Narrative was not brought in on Varus until quite a long time after the video's lore direction had been created.

If it has been said before, it's not been said here. The idea that a non-lore team could spend all that money and man-hours on a project without Narrative's input is quite troubling. It also casts doubt on the intentions of the Varus team.

Honestly, though - no, I personally don't believe that was a successful delivery of new content. Regardless of whether or not the actual ideas resonated with a majority or minority of players, the messaging of the update felt inconsistent, and it has left a sense of dissonance between the lore and the in-game champion. I will see what we can do about that dissonance, going forward.

Varus is going to need a completely new VO, at the very least. I also hope you guys can avoid the whole cheesy "Varus easily kills everyone in his path until something cute or important to the intellectual property is in the way and his Heartsworn interferes" scenario the color text laid out.

I would also ask that Wenceslaus not be involved in another champ rewrite after lying about the impact of the Varus changes, but that's just me. I don't like/trust people who lie, which is why I don't believe him when he says the changes weren't politically motivated. Unfortunately, one bad apple...

I will also speak to DyQuil and find out what he meant about the communication though - I don't think anyone on Narrative has anything to offer, retrospectively, about the Varus update.

In December, DyQuill promised a direct response from the Varus team to the negative feedback. This quickly became a "holistic approach" essay because, I assume, no one on the team wanted to directly address those concerns or issues. Even then, the only questions actually addressed were the softball ones. Questions like "Why did the team lie when the story was leaked on the PBE?," among others, were ignored as "loaded." (Whatever that means.)

This was in early January. Since then, nothing from DyQuill other than some softball nonsense when the Annie video dropped.

I have no idea if DyQuill even writes for Narrative or some other department like Marketing.

It just seems to me that two months to write a "this is how we approach our champions" essay is a bit much given how important it seemed in December.

SgtGenColKledFeb 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I think it's been said already, but Narrative was not brought in on Varus until quite a long time after the video's lore direction had been created. Certainly all of that content was decided before I started working here, so I can't really speak about it with any authority.

Honestly, though - no, I personally don't believe that was a successful delivery of new content. Regardless of whether or not the actual ideas resonated with a majority or minority of players, the messaging of the update felt inconsistent, and it has left a sense of dissonance between the lore and the in-game champion. I will see what we can do about that dissonance, going forward.

I will also speak to DyQuil and find out what he meant about the communication though - I don't think anyone on Narrative has anything to offer, retrospectively, about the Varus update.

So they made an entire video concept about this and didn't even consult Narrative until after they had made the concept?

I really shouldn't be surprised about this anymore but it always finds new ways to. You are right about dissonance though, literally everything about Varus now is in dissonance. Nothing about his kit, playstyle, animations or thematics would ever suggest he is a Darkin. Two of the most striking features of his model, the scarf and pendant, aren't present at all in the new lore. And now that gem on his harness is suppose to be his skin?

Everything about this just reeks of pet project without internal oversight.

SpecterVonBarenFeb 16, 20184 votes

Please consider a suggestion I made the other day about Varus. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/nAElN1pa-there-is-a-way-to-have-both-old-varus-and-new-varus

The gist is to make the new Darkin Varus have a backstory similar to the old Varus in terms of its beats. Since the new Darkin Varus's past is currently vague and cloudy, it's a great opportunity to give back to the people that liked the old Varus.

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 16, 20185 votes

I actually read and enjoyed your post at the time! Certainly an interesting idea, and I always like to hear how players think we could address things in the lore, moving forward. :-)

abdollah56273Feb 17, 20181 votes

With Swain's VGU, I was hoping to know exactly why he betrayed Urgot and sold him out. Unfortunately nothing in his in-game interactions with Urgot indicated anything. Is that a question you will answer in the future? Although I certainly wouldn't mind if you could answer now [slayer-jinx-wink]

RiotRiot ScathlockeFeb 17, 20182 votes

Who said it was Swain...? I very much got the impression the betrayal was courtesy of someone lower down the pecking order... and, possibly, during the reign of Boram Darkwill. ;-)

It's interesting that you and I both read the same text and came to different conclusions, though. That's what I love about subtly open-ended lore.