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About the Vastaya: "the vastaya are not an individual species, but [snip] a phylum" ???? Also Ahri

yay nibbers·4/3/2017, 11:58:31 PM·10 votes·7,906 views

So I read the good Sir Santagelo's journal and I wonder, does he even know what he's talking about?

I would theorize that the vastaya are not an individual species, but a taxonomic classification more on par with a larger order, or a phylum.

"Phylum". He does realize how far out there that would put the vastaya away from not only humans but other vastaya, right? For reference, humans and fish both belong to the same phylum (chordata), and I'm sure you can tell just how different we are as animals. In entirely other phyla, you have things like insects, snails, and even creatures down to the microscopic level all in different phyla. You can tell just by looking at the various vastaya shown to us that they're all almost definitely within our own phylum, ****as vertebrates are (among some others). A case could be made for them being their own order, especially when you consider the origin Santangelo was told, but even that (and phylum as well) is thrown out the window when he mentions the possibility of insect vastaya. "At this rate, the next vastayan creature I see could likely resemble a walking roach."

We also have to take into account their human origins, that is, the fact that they're at least half human (or the first generation of them are at least). Then theres the shapeshifters that the human refugees somehow paired with. Considering creatures of different species (let alone higher classification levels) generally can't reproduce together, they must be human as well.

Of course, this could just be a man trying to make sense out of something magical, which by nature doesn't always make a lot of sense.

Basically: Magic is weird, vastaya (like magic) are weird, Santagelo is doesn't know jack, other stuff

Regarding Ahri: Ahri's inclusion doesn't make sense. If Ahri were a vastaya, would there not be more fox ladies running around (yes please)? Not to mention her lore contradicts their supposed origin, solely on the fact that she was born a fox who was magically transformed into a human (or almost a human, she's working on it). Meanwhile, what we're told would suggest the vastaya are born the way they are. As vaguely as they're described, Ahri could maybe be a member of the tribe of magical shapeshifters that originally helped bring the vastaya into existence through their pairing with a bunch of humans, but that still puts her out of the vayasta.

All that taken into account, either the pig merchant is a liar or Ahri is getting a lore update soon.

38 Comments

RiotWAAARGHbobo4/4/2017, 4:07:48 AM10 votes

Not exactly. We and fish share a common element. We both NEED water are primarly made OF water, and evolved BECAUSE of water.

The Vastaya have ancient ancestors who relate to natural magic the way we relate to water.

(Edited added below)

It is easiest to understand the general term Vastaya if you non-literally translate it to mean, "shaped BY natural magic." It covers a wide spectrum of creatures - mostly chimeric and shapeshifters who exist as phyical beings but require magic as we require water.

LostFr0st4/4/2017, 11:52:06 AM4 votes

OP, I think you're right about the Phylum thing; I'd be surprised if they were actually part of a different Phylum. As someone who reads a ton of scientific journals the reaction to Sir Santagelo's journal is making me chuckle.

It's written in the same hokey way as the early science explorers where they exaggerate everything to get fame. The higher the discovery up the classification ladder, the greater the fame since everything after it (class order family genus species) would need to cite your work.

I wonder if the Vastaya's case is more like plasticity in plants? They have a bunch of genes in their pool, but due to they environment and diet, etc, only certain ones are expressed during and throughout development leading to the variances. The ones that shift can show their masked phenotype.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to this week to say the least. ^^

Fondling Gems4/4/2017, 12:10:14 AM2 votes

He says that they are part of the same phylum, where vastaya is closer to a phylum, rather than a species because vastaya are as different as fish and humans from each other. Basically they are too different to count as a single species.

Now as for the common/rarity of people like Ahri we will have to wait on a lore update from her but there are a couple things to consider. First of all vastaya are pretty rare. Most of the world doesn't seem to know they exist at all. As such it isn't surprising that a tribe of fox people could live without being known about, especially if they have reclusive tendencies.

However we still don't know that Ahri is a vastaya. As far as I know her lore is still canonical. Based on her current lore that fox lady could be entirely different from Ahri or perhaps Ahri has simply could a place among the vastaya. She might be magically created (Similarly to how WW was a human) but in her current form it makes sense that she would choose to live in an area where she would be mistaken as one of the locals.

Also note that we don't know for sure how vastaya are made. If you remember the vastaya the author originally stayed with became very offended when asked about it and as such it could be a secret of the vastaya. Perhaps they aren't born (Or at least the first vastaya of each species aren't born) but rather created through a magical melding. That would fit with what we know of Ahri. She could very well have done something very similar to what happened with the original vastaya when she was afflicted by the magic surrounding the dying mage.

Cordel8a114/4/2017, 12:21:35 PM1 votes

"would there not be more fox ladies running around (yes please)?"

This made me Chuckle. I would say that if anything Ahri could be one of the original tribe. Which would explain just how close she is to human. We also Don't know for sure yet if they are tossing her old lore. Santegelo could very easily just assume this without it being the case.

Requiemsfire4/4/2017, 12:25:39 PM1 votes

To be fair, it's very possible that scientific or in Runeterra's magical creature classification could be very different from how we classify as the Taxonomy of animal kingdom's purpose is to disambiguate different species and describe them effectively.

Robertsmash4/4/2017, 3:14:38 PM1 votes

It looks to me like vastaya are an odd group in which there can be huge physical differences between members/generations, and the possible pairings/differences are large enough (and their own numbers small enough) that each vastaya could very well be a unique phenotype. I kind of think of each individual as a unique species themselves who, when reproducing, can produce a radically different species "mix" based on their mate.

I do think a different phylum is a bit of a stretch. That's insane, but it's highly likely that Santagelo was just spitballing or may not have the most accurate idea of what a phylum is. His (possibly unqualified) cursory guess after seeing a couple vastaya is certainly not an authoritative, rigorous, scientific confirmation. In my personal opinion, it would be difficult for me to swallow inter-phylum mating.

Maximum Morde4/4/2017, 3:34:06 PM1 votes

Convergent evolution. Suspension of disbelief. Pick one, or both.

Meliodäs4/6/2017, 6:42:14 PM1 votes

FINALLY. Finally there's a someone called Windy Ronin(thank you for having a brain) who understands that Ahri isn't a fucking Vastayan or whatever this stupid race is. She's just kitsune.

BananaSlayerAMO4/4/2017, 12:16:35 AM1 votes

I think by classifying Vastaya as a new 'phylum' he means it's a phylum where every species within it is a combination of species from our phylum (plus some human). It doesn't make scientific sense, but, well, magic.

As to the origins of Vastaya, since shape-shifters and humans are different species, they must've biologically integrated via magic... right?

Big Lincoln4/4/2017, 12:45:04 AM1 votes

It's basically just an umbrella term to cover anything that's an animal-person, i'm assuming