Proof Riot lied about Clarity issues with blitz/mf skins.

chumchumm·Mar 21, 2018·4 votes·1,136 views

Riot's skin team has said they cant add new walk animation to lancer blitz crank or, new walk animation/attack animation to GGmf because they would cause clarity issue. They said they want you to be able to identify these champions as blitz and mf basically instantly seeing them appear on your screen and removing blitz bounce animation or giving each of GGmf suits an unique animation would make it impossible for players to read these champions as blitz/mf instantly upon seeing them. Well riot explain these pictures then.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-X_xxkKUNwGg/WrGfzcJk65I/AAAAAAAA71A/en2lGBpBzUoc4gByCATKj2xjDmCZLQsFgCLcBGAs/s1600/irelia4.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9-76XJxgLrg/WER4EfFJGaI/AAAAAAAAZZU/HCHKoUfXUpMM4JtGBzQWHu5CwcK203U3ACLcB/s1600/karma.jpg

the first picture is frostblade ire and 2nd is winter wonder karma. they are both females in purple/blue fur coats with floating icicles behind them. How is this not a clarity issue if a team ever uses both these skins at the same time your telling me this will be easier to instantly read the differences between which one is karma, and which one is ire. Yet players wouldn't be able to tell if lancer blitz is blitzcrank with a new walk animation or, if you changed each walk animation for GG mf anyone can see this is clear bs. It would be much easier to tell that a female with giant guns strap to her shoulders is still mf even if her walk animation changed than it is to tell frostblade ire and winter wonder karma apart. frostblade ire and winter wonder karma will be EXTREMELY easy to confuse them if you see them out of your peripherals yet the skin team is completely fine with this. Proof that riot used "clarity" issues as a lie to not change the walk animation on a skin that they are charging 2750rp for. this is clear evidence that riot was not concern about clarity issues with 2 expensive skins they were just lazy/rushed. This is seriously a slap into the community face showing that you never cared about clarity issues and you just straight up were lying to us as a way for you to avoid putting in the effort into a 1350 skin and a 2750 so you could just ship them and cash in. I would love a riot to explain how gg mf would cause clarity issues but the new frostblade ire wont but, i bet that wont happen because they want to hide/misdirect their community so they can keep pumping out skins that they put minimal effort into while charging 10$+ for skins they didnt want to take the time to add a new walk animation for. How about you just admit that you recycled a 6yr old walk animation on a 10$+ skin because you didn't want to take the time/resources to animate a new walk cycle instead of hiding behind the veil of "clarity issues". This just shows that riot wont listen to their community criticism or at least they won't listen if it would delay their cash grabs. Which i partly understand your a business you have to make money but just tell us the truth next time that the skins are already finished and from a business perspective you don't have incentives to delay/change these skins instead of lying to us about "clarity issues"

17 Comments

Umbral RegentMar 21, 20189 votes

Okay, first off, that wall of text is pretty damn hard to read. You should probably space that out a bit, break it up into a few paragraphs.

Second - what do you mean it'd be hard to tell Winter Wonder Karma and Frostblade Irelia apart? There's plenty to use to differentiate them.

Irelia's fur collar is more voluminous than Karma's
Karma's coat is lavender-colored, Irelia's has more bluer colors
Karma's floating bits are very distinct from Irelia's
Their stances are very different - Irelia's stance is wide, with Karma's being shorter
On top of this, their animations are pretty different, too. Karma keeps tall and maintains planted, with Irelia often leaning into her movements, having more clear momentum and "give".
Their clothing is notably different, as well - Karma has leggings, slippers, a coat, and sleeves, whereas Irelia's clothing is all mostly skin-tight save her tunic/cuirass, and she also wears boots
Karma's hair is plain, whereas Irelia's is crystalline

And that is plenty enough for most people to use to differentiate the two. Outside of people with vision problems, I don't see how there could be clarity issues between Winter Wonder Karma and Frostblade Irelia.

chumchummMar 21, 20182 votes

think you missed the point. Point wasn't to say they are exactly the same the point was that there is MORE clarity issues with this than there is with ggmf having different walking animation. Do you really disagree that if they gave each GG mf form a unique walk animation would be harder to tell apart than winter wonder karma and frostblade ire? these skins literally use the same theme and color pallet. Your telling me if these two were running at you in teamfight you would have 0 issue telling them apart but if GG MF had unique walk animation then you would all of sudden not be able to tell the female in a giant robot suit with 2 guns giant isnt mf anymore cus of walk animation? that was the point.

Umbral RegentMar 21, 20185 votes

They may use the same theme, but they very clearly don't use the same exact color palette. And, yes, I'd have no issue differentiating Irelia from Karma.

As an aside, I didn't keep up with anything involving Gun Goddess Miss Fortune, but I don't think that the absence of different, unique walkcycles was due to clarity issues. I could be wrong, and if I am, I'd appreciate you linking me to a Rioter's comment that that's the case, but, I think it's more that extra walkcycles for GGMF aren't necessary.

Her suit changes, her VFX change, but, her attitude doesn't. Miss Fortune is still Miss Fortune, regardless of if she's decked out in Royal Arms or running out the Zero Hour. Her suit isn't heavily changed, so her strut shouldn't be largely impacted.

Beyond that, though, I still can't see how some modest similarities between two skins relate to another skin not having different walk cycles. Especially since you're bringing up two 975RP skins when comparing to a 3250RP skin. Rather than compare GGMF to Winter Wonder Karma/Frostblade Irelia, why not compare it to Elementalist Lux - a skin of the same price range as GGMF, which also doesn't feature a unique walk cycle for each individual form?

HópeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vroFMWB,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T06:05:54.100+0000)

They may use the same theme, but they very clearly don't use the same exact color palette. And, yes, I'd have no issue differentiating Irelia from Karma.

Except you arent the person hes talking about. Riot stated they wanted to stray away from clarity issues yet these two resemble eachother extreeeemely well. Yes, I can tell the difference of course. But in team fights and quick thinking its extremely easy to get confused. Especially if you're a new player.

Let alone if you fight a Karma and irelia in the same game.

Umbral RegentMar 21, 20182 votes

Well, who is he talking about? Because as far as I've seen, he's only referred to players in the general sense, and hasn't specified one way or the other if he's talking about new players, low tier players, high tier players, or what.

And, no, while their theme is fairly similar, they don't resemble each other "extremely well". I've already provided seven examples of differences between the two, but -

It's really weird seeing someone try to say frostblade Irelia doesnt look like winter Karma. Its even more weird they try to back it up by ''fur collar is more voluminous than Karmas''

Yeah a low level player is going to say '' Yeah thats not Karma, Irelias Fur collar is more voluminous as you can see''

You seem to have gotten hung up on the very first point.

Beyond that, you raise only one counterpoint that I see as valid;

But in team fights and quick thinking its extremely easy to get confused.

And to that, I have to argue - do you think Karma's going to be darting around in a blur of motion, running through your team? D'you think Irelia's going to hang in the back, maybe closing in on one person to root them, but otherwise staying safe and shielding people?

The two not only have visible differences in appearance, but they have wholly different playstyles to tell them apart with. Karma is an Enchanter, and Irelia is a Diver. If you have any amount of experience in the game, surely you can tell the difference - if not from the seven points I mentioned earlier, then at least by the greatest difference Karma and Irelia have.

HópeMar 21, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vroFMWB,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:04:47.477+0000)

Well, who is he talking about? Because as far as I've seen, he's only referred to players in the general sense, and hasn't specified one way or the other if he's talking about new players, low tier players, high tier players, or what.

And, no, while their theme is fairly similar, they don't resemble each other "extremely well". I've already provided seven examples of differences between the two, but -

You seem to have gotten hung up on the very first point.

Beyond that, you raise only one counterpoint that I see as valid;

And to that, I have to argue - do you think Karma's going to be darting around in a blur of motion, running through your team? D'you think Irelia's going to hang in the back, maybe closing in on one person to root them, but otherwise staying safe and shielding people?

The two not only have visible differences in appearance, but they have wholly different playstyles to tell them apart with. Karma is an Enchanter, and Irelia is a Diver. If you have any amount of experience in the game, surely you can tell the difference - if not from the seven points I mentioned earlier, then at least by the greatest difference Karma and Irelia have.

Can we just both agree that the skin does look like Winter Karma.

If you really say no then I will just end this conversation here.

I cant argue the sky is blue to someone who says its red.

Umbral RegentMar 21, 20182 votes

Can we just both agree that the skin does look like Winter Karma.

No. They look somewhat similar, but Frostblade Irelia does not look enough like Winter Wonder Karma to matter.

If you really say no then I will just end this conversation here.

I cant argue the sky is blue to someone who says its red.

And likewise, I can't argue that the grass is green to someone who says it's pink.

I've already given you eight differences between FB Irelia and WW Karma, if that's not enough, then no amount would ever be enough.

Have a good day.

HópeMar 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vroFMWB,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T23:18:13.635+0000)

No. They look somewhat similar, but Frostblade Irelia does not look enough like Winter Wonder Karma to matter.

And likewise, I can't argue that the grass is green to someone who says it's pink.

I've already given you eight differences between FB Irelia and WW Karma, if that's not enough, then no amount would ever be enough.

Have a good day.

I knew this conversation was done when you kept downvoting everything even tho your comments remained at 1 despite disagreeing with you. Good day weirdo

HópeMar 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vroFMWB,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T06:05:54.100+0000)

They may use the same theme, but they very clearly don't use the same exact color palette. And, yes, I'd have no issue differentiating Irelia from Karma.

As an aside, I didn't keep up with anything involving Gun Goddess Miss Fortune, but I don't think that the absence of different, unique walkcycles was due to clarity issues. I could be wrong, and if I am, I'd appreciate you linking me to a Rioter's comment that that's the case, but, I think it's more that extra walkcycles for GGMF aren't necessary.

Her suit changes, her VFX change, but, her attitude doesn't. Miss Fortune is still Miss Fortune, regardless of if she's decked out in Royal Arms or running out the Zero Hour. Her suit isn't heavily changed, so her strut shouldn't be largely impacted.

Beyond that, though, I still can't see how some modest similarities between two skins relate to another skin not having different walk cycles. Especially since you're bringing up two 975RP skins when comparing to a 3250RP skin. Rather than compare GGMF to Winter Wonder Karma/Frostblade Irelia, why not compare it to Elementalist Lux - a skin of the same price range as GGMF, which also doesn't feature a unique walk cycle for each individual form?

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/861u88/new_frostblade_irelia_is_a_huge_disappointment/

There is a 4000 upvoted post in which one of the key points is it looks like Winter Karma.

Your whole argument is invalid. Good day.

Umbral RegentMar 22, 20181 votes

One post on Reddit with the loose statement that "it looks like Winter Wonder Karma" doesn't invalidate my arguments. I'd even argue that her looking like Karma isn't as much of a key point as her looking like she belongs in a different skin-line (Snow Day/Winter Wonder).

Besides, I've already said that, yes, Frostblade Irelia and Winter Wonder Karma look somewhat similar, but my argument is that the similarities are not enough to cause clarity issues, as the OP of this post claimed. I've provided eight examples of telling information between the two skins.

Since the Reddit post doesn't make any claims of clarity issues between FB Irelia and WW Karma, it doesn't invalidate my argument.

As an aside, I thought you said you were ending the conversation?

HópeMar 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vroFMWB,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-22T19:07:04.671+0000)

One post on Reddit with the loose statement that "it looks like Winter Wonder Karma" doesn't invalidate my arguments. I'd even argue that her looking like Karma isn't as much of a key point as her looking like she belongs in a different skin-line (Snow Day/Winter Wonder).

The point OP is trying to make is that it is extremely dumb how Blitz was forced to keep his ''walking'' animation despite having no feet in his lancer skins.

They said it was for clarity issues.

Yet This Irelia skin looks a lot like winter Karma. Also the GGMF skin and Shitty hair Irelia, Its just showing you that it wasent a ''clarity'' issue it was a ''im lazy'' issue.

Also can you stop down voting everytime I reply, I dont down vote your reply. The reason you should stop is because it just makes you look like a child when nobody is here except me and you and you think that downvote button is going to do something.

Umbral RegentMar 22, 20181 votes

The point OP is trying to make is that it is extremely dumb how Blitz was forced to keep his ''walking'' animation despite having no feet in his lancer skins.

They said it was for clarity issues.

And I have yet to say anything on the matter of Lancer Paragon/Lancer Rogue Blitzcrank, because I personally kind of agree that it's dumb they left him with the base walkcycle. I've seen some people around the Story, Art, & Sound boards mention they could've used Piltover Customs' movement cycle, and I agree on that much.

Yet This Irelia skin looks a lot like winter Karma.

It looks similar, but, like I said, not enough to be a clarity issue.

Also the GGMF skin and Shitty hair Irelia, Its just showing you that it wasent a ''clarity'' issue it was a ''im lazy'' issue.

I still have yet to see anyone provide me a link to a Rioter saying that GGMF doesn't have four unique walk cycles for each form because of clarity issues.

And, again; I see no clarity issues with Frostblade Irelia, only thematic ones, which is not the point of this discussion.

Also can you stop down voting everytime I reply, I dont down vote your reply. The reason you should stop is because it just makes you look like a child when nobody is here except me and you and you think that downvote button is going to do something.

First, you don't know whether or not I'm downvoting you, so assuming that it's me is pretty bad on your part.

Second, pointing fingers at someone you can't be 100% sure is doing a thing and throwing a fit (claiming that there's no discussion to be had because of downvotes, and arguing about downvotes in general) is more childish behavior than downvoting, in my opinion.

Third - if you know that downvoting wouldn't do anything, why bother bringing it up? If downvoting does nothing, then arguing about it only serves to detract from the discussion at-hand.

HópeMar 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vroFMWB,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T19:48:40.698+0000)

And I have yet to say anything on the matter of Lancer Paragon/Lancer Rogue Blitzcrank, because I personally kind of agree that it's dumb they left him with the base walkcycle. I've seen some people around the Story, Art, & Sound boards mention they could've used Piltover Customs' movement cycle, and I agree on that much.

Then we both agree it is stupid to leave blitz like that.

Umbral RegentMar 22, 20181 votes

That's pretty much the biggest reason I've avoided touching on Lancer Paragon/Lancer Rogue Blitzcrank throughout this whole discussion.

And, as an aside, I don't think there's anything else to really discuss without proof that Gun Goddess Miss Fortune's walk-cycles were left the same across all four variants due to clarity issues.

HópeMar 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vroFMWB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-21T05:48:22.224+0000)

Okay, first off, that wall of text is pretty damn hard to read. You should probably space that out a bit, break it up into a few paragraphs.

Second - what do you mean it'd be hard to tell Winter Wonder Karma and Frostblade Irelia apart? There's plenty to use to differentiate them.

Irelia's fur collar is more voluminous than Karma's

Karma's coat is lavender-colored, Irelia's has more bluer colors

Karma's floating bits are very distinct from Irelia's

Their stances are very different - Irelia's stance is wide, with Karma's being shorter

On top of this, their animations are pretty different, too. Karma keeps tall and maintains planted, with Irelia often leaning into her movements, having more clear momentum and "give".

Their clothing is notably different, as well - Karma has leggings, slippers, a coat, and sleeves, whereas Irelia's clothing is all mostly skin-tight save her tunic/cuirass, and she also wears boots

Karma's hair is plain, whereas Irelia's is crystalline

And that is plenty enough for most people to use to differentiate the two. Outside of people with vision problems, I don't see how there could be clarity issues between Winter Wonder Karma and Frostblade Irelia.

It's really weird seeing someone try to say frostblade Irelia doesnt look like winter Karma. Its even more weird they try to back it up by ''fur collar is more voluminous than Karmas''

Yeah a low level player is going to say '' Yeah thats not Karma, Irelias Fur collar is more voluminous as you can see''