Azir
So a thought just occured to me. Is shurima one country or state? Or is it a coalition of different countries/states? Because if the former is true then Azir isn't an emperor but a king.
So a thought just occured to me. Is shurima one country or state? Or is it a coalition of different countries/states? Because if the former is true then Azir isn't an emperor but a king.
Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, but I was operating on the belief that the ancient Shuriman empire had several large cities, including Shurima the capital itself. (Also trade villages, forts, mining outposts, abandoned ex-capitals, and farming communities). There's some confusion, of course because the country is named for the capital city, but that's the version of Shurima I was working on when the tablet map was made.
So my two theories are that Shurima was once multiple countries, united under an Emperor and the title stuck, OR that 'Emperor' is the closest word to whatever the original ancient Shuriman word for their leader would have been. Like 'Pharaoh' sort of means King, but is a specific term for a civilization.
Could be some sort of Rome-like?
The way you described an Empire is the way Qin Dynasty China arose from the Warring States period - numerous individual states each claiming to represent China as a whole. I think that's a neat idea to apply to Shurima - a union of individual states that was conquered but share similar culture which is unlike the Roman Empire which was Romans generally conquering non-Roman cultures (Greek, Punic, African, Gaul, Breton, Germanian, etc...).
I also always imagined the Emperor had a much stronger religious role than simply ceremonial head of church/state. Because the Emperor appears to require Ascension as a requirement, there could be an undertone of Living God applied to the Emperor which may give Shurimans a feeling that their Emperor is a diety on Earth (therefore untouchable by illness or defeat lest the Gods themselves abandon them) or that the Emperor is simply a descendant of the Gods Above and therefore hold not just political sway, but demand religious devotion.
It might lead Shurimans to view other cultures differently. Why worship a Demacian King or follow a Noxian General who are merely mortal men when you can follow a true diety?
[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2YeLdpMG,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-07-15T21:15:29.334+0000)
The way you described an Empire is the way Qin Dynasty China arose from the Warring States period - numerous individual states each claiming to represent China as a whole. I think that's a neat idea to apply to Shurima - a union of individual states that was conquered but share similar culture which is unlike the Roman Empire which was Romans generally conquering non-Roman cultures (Greek, Punic, African, Gaul, Breton, Germanian, etc...).
I also always imagined the Emperor had a much stronger religious role than simply ceremonial head of church/state. Because the Emperor appears to require Ascension as a requirement, there could be an undertone of Living God applied to the Emperor which may give Shurimans a feeling that their Emperor is a diety on Earth (therefore untouchable by illness or defeat lest the Gods themselves abandon them) or that the Emperor is simply a descendant of the Gods Above and therefore hold not just political sway, but demand religious devotion.
It might lead Shurimans to view other cultures differently. Why worship a Demacian King or follow a Noxian General who are merely mortal men when you can follow a true diety?
You're now getting into the culture of Shurima which is although interesting but a topic for another discussion. Your post also did not answer my question unless I missed something in it.
Azir could be considered Emperor of Shurima in Shurima but King of Shurima by other states.
For example, although Korea and Japan had their own Emperors - they had to refer to themselves as King of Korea and King of Japan respectively when they addressed the Emperor of China.
This was because a lot of China's political philosophy rests on the assumption that the Emperor is not simply Emperor of the lands under his dominion or the people who follow him but the entire world and therefore can have no other equal.
Another example of when the Duke of Prussia elevated himself to King 'in' Prussia as to not offend the Holy Roman Emperor (Prussia existed outside of the HRE boundaries but the King in Prussia held several principalities within the HRE itself) by implying Dukes can elevate themselves to any rank they wish within the HRE.
For the status of Kingdoms - Kingdoms imply there are other equivalent Kingdoms. Azir - possibly in Shuriman political understanding - has no equal. The Grand General of Noxus or the King of Demacia or the Queen of Freljord will never ever Azir, Emperor of Shurima's, equal and Shurima will not recognize it as such.
Of course, that's coming from a political/philosophical standpoint intertwined with religious undertones.
Azir could just like being called Emperor Azir more than King Azir.
[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2YeLdpMG,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-15T22:08:36.598+0000)
Azir could be considered Emperor of Shurima in Shurima but King of Shurima by other states.
For example, although Korea and Japan had their own Emperors - they had to refer to themselves as King of Korea and King of Japan respectively when they addressed the Emperor of China.
This was because a lot of China's political philosophy rests on the assumption that the Emperor is not simply Emperor of the lands under his dominion or the people who follow him but the entire world and therefore can have no other equal.
Another example of when the Duke of Prussia elevated himself to King 'in' Prussia as to not offend the Holy Roman Emperor (Prussia existed outside of the HRE boundaries but the King in Prussia held several principalities within the HRE itself) by implying Dukes can elevate themselves to any rank they wish within the HRE.
For the status of Kingdoms - Kingdoms imply there are other equivalent Kingdoms. Azir - possibly in Shuriman political understanding - has no equal. The Grand General of Noxus or the King of Demacia or the Queen of Freljord will never ever Azir, Emperor of Shurima's, equal and Shurima will not recognize it as such.
Of course, that's coming from a political/philosophical standpoint intertwined with religious undertones.
Azir could just like being called Emperor Azir more than King Azir.
Alright but the generally accepted definition of Emperor is one who rules over a coalition of states/countries. That being said, Japan's ruler was an emperor considering Japan was a coalition of various states ruled by their own rulers. Kings are by birthright while Emperors come through conquering various states/countries outside of their domain (e.g, Alexander the Great).
What?
We definitely have hereditary Imperial titles in the world. Japan still has an Emperor even though Japan is no longer a coalition of individual states.
China had dynasties of emperors. Emperors are definitely heritable titles.
I don't recall Alexander the Great ever being referred to as Emperor of Makedonia, only King of Makedon.
Your definition to distinguish between King and Emperor is not what I am familiar with and certainly doesn't fit with what is known about the Imperial title.
[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2YeLdpMG,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-15T22:26:50.633+0000)
What?
We definitely have hereditary Imperial titles in the world. Japan still has an Emperor even though Japan is no longer a coalition of individual states.
China had dynasties of emperors. Emperors are definitely heritable titles.
I don't recall Alexander the Great ever being referred to as Emperor of Makedonia, only King of Makedon.
Your definition to distinguish between King and Emperor is not what I am familiar with and certainly doesn't fit with what is known about the Imperial title.
It doesn't matter what they were called. Alexander fits the definition. The king of England was also an Emperor as he ruled over the various kingdoms such as Northumbria, Wessex, etc. Each of these kingdoms were ruled by their own monarchs. In essence Emperor > King.
Are we trying to discuss what qualifies a person as an emperor or what the title of emperor entails? Because the King of England is the King of England, not Emperor of England.
Emperor > King. Okay, sure. In order of honor, why not.
I don't see what martial ability has to do with determining who is an Emperor and who is not. Ruling over a massive dominion doesn't automatically make one an Emperor - by all means the King of England (Great Britain) ruled over the British Empire but did not assume the title of Emperor.
But I see you're arguing it doesn't matter what he calls himself, as long as he fits whatever arbitrary criteria you've established as an Emperor.
Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, but I was operating on the belief that the ancient Shuriman empire had several large cities, including Shurima the capital itself. (Also trade villages, forts, mining outposts, abandoned ex-capitals, and farming communities). There's some confusion, of course because the country is named for the capital city, but that's the version of Shurima I was working on when the tablet map was made.
So my two theories are that Shurima was once multiple countries, united under an Emperor and the title stuck, OR that 'Emperor' is the closest word to whatever the original ancient Shuriman word for their leader would have been. Like 'Pharaoh' sort of means King, but is a specific term for a civilization.
Well, your first theory I have some trouble with but your second theory seems plausible.
Now wait, you might have got the point Bioluminescence. We know that Amumu was discovered in a tomb supposedly far from Shurima's capital (my theory here) and it might have been why we were so confused about Azir not recognising the little mummy or vice-versa. If Shuriman Empire was a conglomerate of City-States it could be possible to suppose that Amumu could have been part of a different lineage from the one of Azir (although maybe sharing a common acestor, who knows) and that prevents somehow the confusion about different lineages in Shurima's (the country) history. Hell, for what we know even Icathia could have been a city of this Empire and being subsequently devoured by the Void. (Or was it already? I'm getting confused between old and new lore sometimes).
Valoran do not have "Counties"... they have what the users call "Factions", Those factions have a main City State ruled by "someone" (Jarvan 3 in the case of Demacia, Swain in the case of Noxus, The Elders in the case of Ionia, Jadefellow in the case of Bandle City, Etc).
Those City States can call their "domains" like what they want, for Example, Freljord and Demacia call themselves a Kingdoms, Noxus says that its an Empire.
In the case of Shurima, is the same, the main city is Shurima, but it has small towns around the dessert... the whole terrain is called by Azir an "Empire" (The Empire of Shurima)... so, he is the Emperor.
[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2YeLdpMG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-07-15T16:29:08.957+0000)
Valoran do not have "Counties"... they have what the users call "Factions", Those factions have a main City State ruled by "someone" (Jarvan 3 in the case of Demacia, Swain in the case of Noxus, The Elders in the case of Ionia, Jadefellow in the case of Bandle City, Etc).
Those City States can call their "domains" like what they want, for Example, Freljord and Demacia call themselves a Kingdoms, Noxus says that its an Empire.
In the case of Shurima, is the same, the main city is Shurima, but it has small towns around the dessert... the whole terrain is called by Azir an "Empire" (The Empire of Shurima)... so, he is the Emperor.
You do realise that Valoran is a city or a state. Riot has never really been clear on those grounds. The thing which you're referring to is called Runeterra.
[{quoted}](name=Hamza Khan1,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2YeLdpMG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-15T21:57:13.013+0000)
You do realise that Valoran is a city or a state. Riot has never really been clear on those grounds. The thing which you're referring to is called Runeterra.
Valoran is the name of the whole continent, not a city. (And Runeterra is the name of the Planet)
[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2YeLdpMG,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-15T22:05:34.413+0000)
Valoran is the name of the whole continent, not a city. (And Runeterra is the name of the Planet)
Okay, my mistake.
Curious about the lore that has been posted.