Why are there so many toxic feeders????

subs4life·Dec 15, 2015·2 votes·805 views

I would like to ask why does Riot insist on giving you good teams to play with for a couple games then they group you with morons who do nothing but complain and feed. I was on a good role like so many of us. Then all of the sudden we are getting out matched and not only out matched but with feeders and complainers on our own team. The team comp as far as skill level should be almost level with the opposing team only differing within your promos as you are trying to get into higher tier. However within the tier you shouldnt be getting teams that consist of example, 3 bronze 1 players a silver and a bronze 5 vs 2 silver 5 players 2 bronze players and someone in their promos for silver. Obviously the team 1 should lose by default. Only fantastic plays would allow the first team to win or the second team to totally throw the game. I would ask that riot look into the team match ups. Make them more even within each tier and obviously more difficult on promos. However, make it more like say im in bronze 1. trying to advance into silver. make it a game where the bronze and silvers are matched. Its not fair to ask me, the bronze 1 player to carry the entire team of bronzies to get myself into silver. This is a team game and its hard to instill that when your solo ranked performance is strickly based on winning the game and not individual performance. The other option i see is to allow degrees of lp loss and gain within games based upon winning/losing and overal performance mixed. thought on this would be nice. Just really struggling in bronze to advance to silver.. I go back and forth from silver to b5 alot and tired of the miss matched games.

11 Comments

PIMPSMOOTHDec 15, 20152 votes

Paragraph.

GetBoomedOnDec 15, 20151 votes

Yeah dude the system tries to keep you around 50% W/L, look at any player globally and you'll see even in diamond 99% of players fall between 45-55% Win ratio. I dunno why or how riot thinks this is good matchmaking, but it's how the matchmake. It sucks. Pretty much if you play ranked and have a 52% + winrate, spam ranked and you will climb bc the system. That's if you have the time.

ZielmannDec 15, 20151 votes

This is incorrect.

The system puts together two teams which, based on MMR, are roughly equal. Essentially, either team should be able to win the game. So effectively, each game should be a 50/50 shot at a win. It does not see a player who is at a 55% win rate, and purposefully stick them on a team with a total MMR that's well below that of the other team in order to force a loss so that the player gets closer to a 50/50 win rate.

The 50/50 chance of either team winning in a game based on team MMR is basically working off the assumption that all the players in the game are actually at the correct MMR for their skill level. If your skill level is actually higher than your MMR indicates, then you should be winning more games than you lose. That is, until you eventually reach an MMR that's actually correct for your skill level. Once at your correct MMR, then it would be generally expected that you would win about 50% of your games, because the system puts together even matches (based on MMR) each time.

GetBoomedOnDec 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is incorrect.

The system puts together two teams which, based on MMR, are roughly equal. Essentially, either team should be able to win the game. So effectively, each game should be a 50/50 shot at a win. It does not see a player who is at a 55% win rate, and purposefully stick them on a team with a total MMR that's well below that of the other team in order to force a loss so that the player gets closer to a 50/50 win rate.

The 50/50 chance of either team winning in a game based on team MMR is basically working off the assumption that all the players in the game are actually at the correct MMR for their skill level. If your skill level is actually higher than your MMR indicates, then you should be winning more games than you lose. That is, until you eventually reach an MMR that's actually correct for your skill level. Once at your correct MMR, then it would be generally expected that you would win about 50% of your games, because the system puts together even matches (based on MMR) each time.

Don't listen to this guy he has no idea what he's talking about. Watch athene's video talking about this, he gives a great explanation of what happens when you approach 55+ win rate.

ZielmannDec 15, 20151 votes

Bahaha. Athene... lol. You're funny. Like everybody else that believes that the system is actively trying to keep players at a 50/50 win rate, Athene is just using it as an excuse for why he couldn't get his ranking higher. He couldn't accept that he'd actually finally hit his skill level (and that it wasn't as high as he thought it was) and therefore wasn't able to maintain a 55%+ win rate any more.

Seriously, though. If you actually think about how the system works, it makes sense that it's difficult to maintain an win rate above 55%. If you've been winning, and you keep winning, your MMR will increase more and more. You more quickly reach the MMR that actually reflects your skill level. And once there, you're in a game with a 50/50 chance of winning. At that point, you pretty much stagnate in MMR until you make actual improvements in skill that'll allow you to slowly pull up to a higher MMR again. Where you'll inevitably plateau once again. Rinse and repeat.

On top of all that, if you pull your MMR up, and still get lucky in a few more games, you could easily find yourself slightly higher than your skill level. Until you drop back down slightly to the proper MMR, it'll be more difficult to win these games because you're actually out-matched. So that's why after an extended period of time at 55%+ win rates, a player might find themselves in a short losing streak.

And if you actually look at the data... there are quite a few players in challenger who are above 55% win rate. And a good chunk of them that are at 60-70%. According to the conspiracy theories, that should be impossible. But it makes sense if you apply real logic...

GetBoomedOnDec 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Bahaha. Athene... lol. You're funny. Like everybody else that believes that the system is actively trying to keep players at a 50/50 win rate, Athene is just using it as an excuse for why he couldn't get his ranking higher. He couldn't accept that he'd actually finally hit his skill level (and that it wasn't as high as he thought it was) and therefore wasn't able to maintain a 55%+ win rate any more.

Seriously, though. If you actually think about how the system works, it makes sense that it's difficult to maintain an win rate above 55%. If you've been winning, and you keep winning, your MMR will increase more and more. You more quickly reach the MMR that actually reflects your skill level. And once there, you're in a game with a 50/50 chance of winning. At that point, you pretty much stagnate in MMR until you make actual improvements in skill that'll allow you to slowly pull up to a higher MMR again. Where you'll inevitably plateau once again. Rinse and repeat.

On top of all that, if you pull your MMR up, and still get lucky in a few more games, you could easily find yourself slightly higher than your skill level. Until you drop back down slightly to the proper MMR, it'll be more difficult to win these games because you're actually out-matched. So that's why after an extended period of time at 55%+ win rates, a player might find themselves in a short losing streak.

And if you actually look at the data... there are quite a few players in challenger who are above 55% win rate. And a good chunk of them that are at 60-70%. According to the conspiracy theories, that should be impossible. But it makes sense if you apply real logic...

Yeah so anyways OP, play more, practice up, and you'll climb.

This guy who replied to me failed to see where I said "Up to Diamond 99% of players fall between 45-55%" Since he or she has selective attention I will kindly decline an argument.

ZielmannDec 15, 20151 votes

Put a little thought into the points I'm making, and you'll see how they're relevant. If you need them spelled out:

I do realize that many of the accounts with the very high win rates at the top of the ladder are probably ones that started fresh and got to pad their win rates with a high number of wins early. But... this only serves to further prove my point. You win a higher percent of games while climbing, and your MMR doesn't match your skill yet. As you reach your actual skill level in MMR, you get closer to winning about 50% of games. If the system were actively trying to keep these players at 50%, it would be putting them into more and more disadvantageous games until they started losing a bunch to make up for the early winning streaks. But it doesn't do that. You can see by the numbers yourself.

Why do people Diamond and below have a hard time maintaining over 55% win rate? Because they've reached the MMR that matches their skill level! At this point, the games are matchmade so each team has an equal chance of winning, so over a large number of games at your true MMR, you're going to see yourself staying around a 50% win rate.

Let's even use an example!

Bob's true skill level is 1700 MMR. But he's starting with a 1200 MMR. By the time Bob climbs up to 1500 MMR, he's still rocking a good 62% win rate, and got there fairly quickly. The trek from 1500 to 1700 takes a fair bit more time, because a player with the skill of a 1700 in a game matchmade at 1400 MMR is going to be able to dominate most games. Now that things are a little closer, it gets a little more difficult. By the time he reaches 1700, he's now down at 55% win rate.

Bob's MMR now matches his skill level. He's a 1700 player getting matched with other 1700 players. Overall matchmade team MMRs for both teams still sits right around 1700 or so. At this point, Bob doesn't have that MMR advantage over his opponents that he used to have, so it's an even game. Either team has an equal chance of winning. Assuming that he is still slowly getting better, from this point through the next 200 games or so, he's at 51-52% win rate.

This extended period with a 51-52% win rate will slowly drop his overall win rate from 55%, because he's not able to maintain 55% win rates when matches are even. This is because Bob's skill hit a plateau and the matches are even, NOT because the system is actively placing Bob into disadvantageous games, and trying to 'force' him to have a 50% win rate.

GetBoomedOnDec 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Put a little thought into the points I'm making, and you'll see how they're relevant. If you need them spelled out:

I do realize that many of the accounts with the very high win rates at the top of the ladder are probably ones that started fresh and got to pad their win rates with a high number of wins early. But... this only serves to further prove my point. You win a higher percent of games while climbing, and your MMR doesn't match your skill yet. As you reach your actual skill level in MMR, you get closer to winning about 50% of games. If the system were actively trying to keep these players at 50%, it would be putting them into more and more disadvantageous games until they started losing a bunch to make up for the early winning streaks. But it doesn't do that. You can see by the numbers yourself.

Why do people Diamond and below have a hard time maintaining over 55% win rate? Because they've reached the MMR that matches their skill level! At this point, the games are matchmade so each team has an equal chance of winning, so over a large number of games at your true MMR, you're going to see yourself staying around a 50% win rate.

Let's even use an example!

Bob's true skill level is 1700 MMR. But he's starting with a 1200 MMR. By the time Bob climbs up to 1500 MMR, he's still rocking a good 62% win rate, and got there fairly quickly. The trek from 1500 to 1700 takes a fair bit more time, because a player with the skill of a 1700 in a game matchmade at 1400 MMR is going to be able to dominate most games. Now that things are a little closer, it gets a little more difficult. By the time he reaches 1700, he's now down at 55% win rate.

Bob's MMR now matches his skill level. He's a 1700 player getting matched with other 1700 players. Overall matchmade team MMRs for both teams still sits right around 1700 or so. At this point, Bob doesn't have that MMR advantage over his opponents that he used to have, so it's an even game. Either team has an equal chance of winning. Assuming that he is still slowly getting better, from this point through the next 200 games or so, he's at 51-52% win rate.

This extended period with a 51-52% win rate will slowly drop his overall win rate from 55%, because he's not able to maintain 55% win rates when matches are even. This is because Bob's skill hit a plateau and the matches are even, NOT because the system is actively placing Bob into disadvantageous games, and trying to 'force' him to have a 50% win rate.

This guy may have the actual worst socialization skills on the boards.

dunkeroniDec 15, 20151 votes

Team comp is created based on each player's MMR. You can be in Gold V and play on a Silver IV level and therefore be matched with a Bronze III who is also playing on a Silver IV level.

Alternatively, if you're in Bronze II, it's quite likely that you would be matched with a Silver III that is in duo queue with a Bronze V since it averages their MMR and adds a small amount to adjust for their assume teamwork. This will only get wilder in the upcoming season.

There is no reason that playing against people one or two divisions up from you would make you "lose by default". The Ranked queue is a self-correcting algorithm where your skill as a player can be vastly different from your rank and stats. If you lose because you're against higher ranks, then congratulations. You actually play on the same level as them but your mind has caused you to fail because you're afraid of the higher ranks.

Essentially, anyone within one tier of you (i.e. bronze, silver, gold) should be expected to show up in your games. I would be surprised if you somehow landed a game where everyone was in the same division.

subs4lifeDec 15, 20151 votes

I can understand the MMR i guess. however its like getboomed said.. the win ratios are insane. there must be a better way to match make and reward players for personal skill level in solo que.

PIMPSMOOTHDec 16, 20151 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]