The "false support"

LightIsMyPath··3 votes·1,055 views

Hey there! I'd like to talk about an issue i am experiencing quite a lot since the "non-support" queue times got little longer. I t mostly happens in normals but in these last times I'm seeing it in many rankeds too: the support of our team picks a high damage champions ( if we are lucky stuff like Annie, Brand, Lux.. If we are not I even saw things like Jarvan, Le Blanc, Jax..today I had a Teemo), he doesn't buy item 2049 , steals farm from adc, tries to last-hit all the kills he can, builds full ap/ad, never wards, never buys utility items that could be needed ( like Mikael or Solari...) by the team, of course he would never peel for anyone.

Naturally, 90 % of this games are lost: our starved adc will have no damage so we will lack dps, having not enough vision will result in the loss of objectives like drake, baron and buffs, and the lack of utility will make for us nearly impossible to teamfight, unless we had the luck of having a heavy utility top, mid and jungler. The lack of Sighstone translate often in a feeding bot-lane gangbanged non-stop by midlaners and junglers.

In most cases these guys in the end will flame everyone making us notice how he got high damage and has BIG KILLS so we surely didn't lost for his fault.

Now, i asked myself, and want to ask you: is this behaviour worth of a punishment?

From one side, you are going where the system put you, so one could think there is no reportable offense. From the other side though we must notice the support is the only position that is not described as a place on the map, but as a role itself: according to system you have to support. I think we can all agree these guys are doing everything but supporting their team..

So, I'd like to know: what is "supporting" for Riot? It's clear that if u are toplane you must go in top, if you are jungle you have to go in jungle,ecc... if you are support what's the behaviour that can separate who is playing normally and who is not playing according to their role?Is there any, or I can just do a half second queue instead of having to wait 10 minutes to play as a damage dealer like every other position?

Ps: sorry for bad english!

pps: i hope this is the right section..

16 Comments

Troll Armada3 votes

When I suspect the enemy team contains a booster using a throw-bot on my team, I am left with no choice other than to report the ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM for boosting / using third party apps.

Therefore, realistically, while 4 of those reports are probably accurate, 1-2 could potentially be false reports, because I have no way of knowing which 3-4 players are a booster premade.

Guyy Fieri3 votes

How does that have anything to do with what the op posted?

Troll Armada3 votes

oh, you know what, I didn't read the title or the post.... but I have a lot to say about fake supports too. It's riot's fault. I mean you could not create a more troll support than bard.

This support requires that you leave your adc and wander the map like a tard.

Guyy Fieri2 votes

Ok so....two things.

First off, Bard is like the exact of a troll support and, to be honest, anyone who has played any amount of Bard seriously knows what to do and let's face it, most supports want to roam the map anyway to get vision or to gank mid. Those chimes actually enable Bard to get places quicker so if Bard is choosing to wait and collect chimes as he is going on a different mission like warding or ganking, he will actually get done much quicker and get back to lane in plenty of time. Bard is not troll, you just have to understand how to execute his laning phase.

Second. He was talking about fake supports who aren't support and will just build full damage. Champions like Lux (who can go both ways but tends to be seen out of bot lane building full damage), Xerath, Syndra, Teemo (correct, Teemo is not a support), Azir, so on. Basically, ask yourself if you want to enter a fight at 20 minutes on these champions with almost zero combat stats (since supports need to get their gold gen item, their Sightstone and usually mobility boots). If you would be able to make an impact on the fight with no stats, then sure, try him/her out. If you just get face rolled in the fight because you have no combat stats, then maybe you shouldn't play that champion support.

Now the common response I hear is, "but that champ is strong as a support because of his/her poke and I need damage to maximize that." my response is you wanna play a poke champion you need to not play support. The only poke that matters from a support is in lane phase, where ideally you are a champion like Morgana or Bard with strong enough base damages to make it worthwhile, as you rarely build damage during lane phase. If you wanna play to poke down during sieges and team fights, then just go play mid lane, as supports should be less focused on poke at that point and more focused on vision.

Anyway, you are still wrong in my opinion. Bard is not troll, he is not a bad support, he is actually quite strong. This thread was not made to QQ about your least favorite support. It was hear to bring light to issues of supports building full damage and neglecting to build the support items that are really required to win a close game.

Troll Armada1 votes

the point of talking about bard was that if riot had cared about fake supports, then it would not have fanned the flames by creating a troll support.

Guyy Fieri2 votes

Except he's not troll. Lol. He is a strong support if you follow the right play style then he's stupid strong, then again I just noticed your username so I feel like most of you said just lost some credibility.

Raw3 votes

As someone who actually play Jarvan and Pantheon support in ranked, this thread triggered me. http://www.auplod.com/u/uopadl6d63e.png

sheldonbunny1 votes

{quoted}

As someone who actually play Jarvan and Pantheon support in ranked, this thread triggered me. http://www.auplod.com/u/uopadl6d63e.png

I fully believe in off meta supports. I'm not fond of kill lanes but the two you listed do provide a certain amount of peel. As long as you're getting sightstone to provide ample vision, because to be frank, yellow trinket is not enough, denying enemy vision, not taking cs from your lane, and keeping your ADC fed and protected, I see no issue.

JayHog19921 votes

I've played Teemo support and usually still follow the support rules.

Rule number one: Sightstone as first item, only exception is Zilean (Having a tear before sightstone benefits him better since he can start spamming more abilities and harass the enemy laner frequently).

RookPusher1 votes

They won't restrict that. If you want real supports with shorter queue times then the team needs to start keeping an eye on the ADC and say something when they start going south. Bad ADCs are to blame for the support shortage. They pass the buck, fail to close on set-ups, and feed. They are, in my mind, the reason for a lot of the queue problem. And god help the fills who get support.

I main it, so you build up a thick skin and tactics for dealing with bad ADCs, you learn how to spoon feed them even when you've had to sacrifice your main for a team-compliment. You get comfortable watching them dive headlong into a bad situation and die while you casually walk away. You know the "wtf" is coming. You're ready for it.

cllesh1 votes

think about it for a second and it seems normal to do so to a "rational person" who is unwilling to play support but wants low queue times

-Riot increases queue times for other lanes and "support" queue times are lowest in dynamic queue -Riot says you cannot be reported for playing the game in an "off meta" way -what a support is can be open to interpretation -if you didnt get your wanted role or mid/top/ whatever and you get support there is nothing saying you cant go for CS, go for kills, go for damage, move lanes ect, ect...

these people are abusing the system but following the rules while doing so.... its the new meta... people troll but troll in a rule following way... so they often get away with it...

(flaming is not part of this thought since that is obviously reportable)

DeloricVI1 votes

Teemo is a decent support, but could be better. You really have to judge support Teemo by how they play as a support.

However, that is not the point of the thread.

This is really bad. Some mids can support in a pinch like, as you mentioned, Lux and Annie. As long as they follow the rules that a support should play by, they do well. In fact, they often end up being freaking godlike supports that supplement your damage and apply stellar cc and lockdown potential. However, when they start taking cs, report them. When they use their mid build, report them. What for? Unsportsman like conduct, or greifing. They're not playing with your team, and they're probably being bitchy because they didn't get their role and didn't want to wait for the queue, so they just stamped their foot down and refused to cooperate. I have no sympathy for these supports. Not the ones that take crazy champions down bot and actually try to support, but the ones that play mid in the bot lane and fight the adc for kills and CS. You're not playing support; you're playing mid, and ruining your entire team's strategy.

sheldonbunny1 votes

This honestly is my greatest pet peeve as a support main. With the mana adjustments in preseason sightstone is not my first back item always if I back early, but it is always done shortly thereafter.

As for ap builds, I only play that way as Sona, who at my ello is far better at poking down enemy bot than sitting there full of tanky support items. And I still prioritize sightstone.

I have no idea why people go into the support role and don't even bother with vision. Building ap after isn't as big a deal as long as you're maintaining vision, getting your ADC fed and keeping them safe. I typically am the type that takes under the average cs that supports do. Good income items are there for a reason.

[{quoted}](name=Troll Armada,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qKbdPZof,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-03-14T19:02:17.193+0000)

oh, you know what, I didn't read the title or the post.... but I have a lot to say about fake supports too. It's riot's fault. I mean you could not create a more troll support than bard.

This support requires that you leave your adc and wander the map like a tard.

His roams are not trollish. It literally teaches supports the need to roam instead of being glued to the ADCs hip. The support is for the whole team, not just bot lane. A good ADC knows their limits and how to play carefully while their support is out of lane. It helps playing both roles bot lane to understand how they work together.

Guyy Fieri

What I will say about Bard, to be fair, there are ADCs that you probably just shouldn't play him with. Kog' Maw, Vayne, Twitch, Ashe, Jinx, basically any ADC weak in lane or with no mobility. Those are ADCs that generally want the support there when they are farming. However, Bard is an exceptional choice with self-sufficient ADCs like Ezreal, Lucian, Sivir or Corki.

sheldonbunny1 votes

{quoted}

What I will say about Bard, to be fair, there are ADCs that you probably just shouldn't play him with. Kog' Maw, Vayne, Twitch, Ashe, Jinx, basically any ADC weak in lane or with no mobility. Those are ADCs that generally want the support there when they are farming. However, Bard is an exceptional choice with self-sufficient ADCs like Ezreal, Lucian, Sivir or Corki.

While I'll agree there are certain ones that don't work as well, I'll disagree on some you listed. Not to mention no matter what support you play there is going to be times you must leave them temporarily alone. You can't always back together, etc. It is the ADC's responsibility to not suddenly go aggressive or push out too far. In other words, use common sense.

And unlike others supports Bard at least manages to aid them while away by leaving shrines for quick health/speed boosts. No other support manages that while away.

No flash no life1 votes

Unfortunately this isn't reportable, since players are free to play however they want as long as they aren't purposely losing. This is considered conflict/issue among players and need to be sorted out between yourselves.

Doing what that teemo did is going to make that player lose more often and if he/she's okay with it then go right ahead. That's all I can say.

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