Why do you specific people literally just wait and downvote shit, what is wrong with you? Do you even read any of it? LOL. I see it constantly, not even seconds after someone posts something there's like 1-2 people that downvote it, cut it out, some people take this stuff seriously unlike you no wonder nothing gets done in this board.
Martensitic15 votesWhy do you specific people literally just wait and downvote shit, what is wrong with you?
because its our decision not to agree with you.
Do you even read any of it?
Of course. Why do you think we downvote?
TyrekGoldenspear11 votesSome people happen to load up the page as soon as posts are made.
As for the downvotes, I couldn't tell you. A lot of people read quickly, and the common theme of QQing in a PB&M board involving an unwarranted ban irritates people because they see it all the time.
I suspect it's fueled by the fact that a lot of people are sick of toxicity in their games, and are frustrated that their reports don't seem to do anything. When somebody posts on this board involving a ban and they post their chat logs, they aren't in the mood to be supportive.
Maximum Morde7 votesWhy do you care about downvotes? They are literally just people saying, I disagree, the lazy way. It's perfectly fine for folks to disagree. The only problem with downvotes is it shouldn't auto hide things just cause of downvoting. That's some SJW safe space shit right there. If it isn't bad enough to get modded, it shouldn't be hidden.
FurriesAreHot7 votesDownvotes dont mean a single thing. All they are is an opinion. If you cant handle an opinion, then the internet isnt for you.
Final Spark Lux5 votesI read this. It's literally nothing but QQ, assuming people don't actually read things when infact they do. Enjoy another legitimate downvote
Kei1434 votesthen take the downvotes seriously and understand what we are telling you.
WE DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR OPINIONS ON TOXICITY.
Jon11742 votesReally downvoteing should be used for ALL CAPS RANTS OMG F THIS GAME stuff and LOL GUYS FREE RP ON THIS VIRUS SITE stuff discussions should be free flowing and open minded
Martensitic7 votesThis may come as a shock to you, but people are allowed not to like someones opinion.
fumiefan1 votesAgreed. Post anything critiquing Riot and watch your score go down.
The same people are in every single thread, because when new people come on here, get banned and don't know why, they get harassed and chased off.
elduris10 votes{quoted} Agreed. Post anything critiquing Riot and watch your score go down.
I think you can criticize them here just fine. It helps to not call people names or complain about downvotes, though.
And yes, that is 9 separate threads.
The same people are in every single thread, because when new people come on here, get banned and don't know why, they get harassed and chased off.
I'd argue against this. It's usually the new people that come here just to rage or troll that get chased off. New people that come with legitimate questions tend to stay around, from my experience anyway.
fumiefan1 votesI think you can criticize them here just fine. Yes, that is 9 separate threads.
I can pull up 9 separate threads as well with people being downvoted for saying that there is a problem here. That's anecdotal evidence for you.
As a mod or whatever the blue is, I think you are a part of the problem for allowing it to continue. Probably get banned for that, but whatev. I said it.
I'd argue against this. It's usually the new people that come here just to rage or troll that get chased off. New people that come with legitimate questions tend to stay around, from my experience anyway.
Then why are we seeing the same few people in every thread?
TrulyBland9 votesSaying some threads criticizing Riot are downvoted is one thing, saying you cannot criticize Riot without being downvoted is another. Anecdotal evidence is not enough to prove a general rule, but it is most certainly enough to disprove a general rule if it's a direct contradiction to it.
Five hundred black ravens may not prove that all ravens are black, but a single non-black raven proves that not all ravens are black.
Azure Hamster4 votesSaying some threads criticizing Riot are downvoted is one thing, saying you cannot criticize Riot without being downvoted is another. Anecdotal evidence is not enough to prove a general rule, but it is most certainly enough to disprove a general rule if it's a direct contradiction to it.
Five hundred black ravens may not prove that all ravens are black, but a single non-black raven proves that not all ravens are black.
OMG Someone who understands formal logic!!! Nice to see for a change. :)
The Capn Cook1 votesAs a generalization, you can't post a thread criticizing Riot without it being spammed with downvotes.
TrulyBland3 votesAnd when you generalize like this, especially when there is proof that the generalization is false, you are throwing away every chance of a healthy discussion. Generalizations like this eliminate the search for other factors, and thus any discussion of the generalization itself.
Generalizations are poison for discussion, but they are even worse in cases like this, when they are objectively false. Because if you intentionally use an objectively false statement (even if it holds true in most cases) as a base for your argument, then you are basically saying "I don't care if what I'm saying is wrong", at which point the discussion cannot reasonably continue.
Case in point: We are now discussing generalizations, rather than being involved in the much more healthy and useful discussion about why those counterexamples given by Elduris were not downvoted, when so many other threads are. We could be looking for alternate causes, or maybe merely adjust the theory that it's all about the critique to include other factors. But as long as people believe that their generalization is infallible despite counterexamples, all of that is completely out of reach.
Kei1437 votesI can pull up 9 separate threads as well with people being downvoted for saying that there is a problem here. That's anecdotal evidence for you.
Oh that isn't really anecdotal evidence. Most the time those threads complaining about them being "wrongly banned and the system isn't working" is the fault of their own.
They don't understand the system and complain to no end that "they are not at fault" when they were the ones that typed the negative / toxic crap. So of course they get downvoted there.
They also refuse to understand how the system works despite what others tell them how the system works. Which is fine too, that is the internet and they are allowed to believe whatever they please. Doesn't mean what they did wasn't wrong.
Then why are we seeing the same few people in every thread?
Cos this is the time these people are active. Come back in 8 hours time and you'll get a different set of people commenting.
fumiefan1 votesThey don't understand the system and complain to no end that "they are not at fault" when they were the ones that typed the negative / toxic crap. So of course they get downvoted there. They also refuse to understand how the system works despite what others tell them how the system works. Which is fine too, that is the internet and they are allowed to believe whatever they please. Doesn't mean what they did wasn't wrong.
You are really just proving the argument that people are getting downvoted and harassed for not getting a system that doesn't make any sense anyway. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TO HELP. RIOT IS THE JUDGE. YOU ARE NOT. RIOT DOES NOT CARE WHAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THINKS OR INTERPRETS IN THEIR SYSTEM.
And nobody here wants to hear about any issues in the system. I will guarantee you that if a Rioter under a non-Riot username made a post detailing every issue with the system, it would be downvoted to hell while you and the regulars say "you don't get the system".
The truth is, the system is very open-ended, it's only making banned players come back on other accounts and it somehow manages to miss the big stuff while going after every little thing. The whole system fails when banned players are able to make as many accounts as they want for free and when players stop supporting the game due to the system.
Cos this is the time these people are active. Come back in 8 hours time and you'll get a different set of people commenting.
Been on all hours. Same 20 people. Same downvote brigades. Same "haha you got banned, need some salt for those wounds?" stuff. I know the names of almost everybody here after a week and I barely come on this board.
EvilDustMan2 votesYou are really just proving the argument that people are getting downvoted and harassed for not getting a system that doesn't make any sense anyway. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TO HELP. RIOT IS THE JUDGE. YOU ARE NOT. RIOT DOES NOT CARE WHAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THINKS OR INTERPRETS IN THEIR SYSTEM.
And nobody here wants to hear about any issues in the system. I will guarantee you that if a Rioter under a non-Riot username made a post detailing every issue with the system, it would be downvoted to hell while you and the regulars say "you don't get the system".
The truth is, the system is very open-ended, it's only making banned players come back on other accounts and it somehow manages to miss the big stuff while going after every little thing. The whole system fails when banned players are able to make as many accounts as they want for free and when players stop supporting the game due to the system.
Been on all hours. Same 20 people. Same downvote brigades. Same "haha you got banned, need some salt for those wounds?" stuff. I know the names of almost everybody here after a week and I barely come on this board.
tl;dr, downvoted
EvilDustMan1 votestl;dr, downvoted
said the word downvote, downvoted.
fumiefan1 votesPretty much. Might as just well write poop. Same difference on this board.
Poop.
DrCyanide8 votesYou can detail every issue with the system, but explain why it's a problem. "It got me banned" doesn't count as a problem if your chat logs don't back it up. Re-suggesting an old system or a system that's been discussed endlessly (like permamuting) doesn't do anything either unless you can identify a way to fix the flaw in the system.
I know I made a thread months ago that got a lot of upvotes that was a suggestion on how to improve the system. I laid out what I saw as the problem (people ignoring the chat restrictions seriously, only starting to change when they got the 2-week ban, not having time enough to actually reform before permabanned) and a potential solution. Several players who had been permabanned chimed in that it sounded like their situation. There was skepticism that it would work, sure, but it was a constructive conversation because of how I started it.
Finding the same people on at all hours isn't too unusual. Look at any section of the boards and you'll see the same behavior, whether it's Memes and Games, Gameplay, General Discussion, or Player Behavior.
fumiefan1 votesI'm just going to put in the same low effort everyone else does since we are trying to abuse the system and annoy people with my ideas when I feel like it.
Kei1432 votesOk, lets have a civil discussion in regards to the behavioral system. Always open to this, especially the ones that have good ideas that can be expanded or tweaked. I'll split this up in 3 post so I can TLDR it.
First, lets break down your post;
You are really just proving the argument that people are getting downvoted and harassed for not getting a system that doesn't make any sense anyway. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TO HELP. RIOT IS THE JUDGE. YOU ARE NOT. RIOT DOES NOT CARE WHAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THINKS OR INTERPRETS IN THEIR SYSTEM.
If they want to be helped we'll help them. I'll use Tilian's original post as an example. This got a bunch of down votes, which probably started this discussion. He got 2 chats and permabanned, which he then says that "this chat doesn't deserve a permaban", when his reform card / email stated that his account is on the line and next punishment will be a permaban.
This is pretty much the prime example why things get downvoted. If he denies the history of his chat, he'll get down voted more.
Now chances are he skipped through what his reform card said. But is there a place for improvement for the behavioral system? Sure is.
Riot needs to do a better job in communicating how the system works for the new in the system. The "In-Client Reform Cards FAQ" and doesn't (and no links in the reform card) explain how the punishment system works in tiers. So we end up getting these people asking "was this permaban worthy?" when its not the chat that is important, but the whole history of the account.
Also, the "your next punishment is a permaban" msg is at the very bottom of the reform card message, which requires the punished person to scroll down. Would it be better if it was in large bolded + highlight + caps and the first few letters of the sentence? Sure, that way it is harder to use the excuse "I didn't know" cos it should be the first thing they see.
I'd push for a better reform card (or a link) that shows how many games they were validly reported in within how many games, their history of when they were punished in different tiers and explanation of how the punishment tiers work.
Kei1432 votesOk, lets have a civil discussion in regards to the behavioral system. Always open to this, especially the ones that have good ideas that can be expanded or tweaked. I'll split this up in 3 post so I can TLDR it.
And nobody here wants to hear about any issues in the system. I will guarantee you that if a Rioter under a non-Riot username made a post detailing every issue with the system, it would be downvoted to hell while you and the regulars say "you don't get the system".
Oh people know about the issues, we also know how the system works, so when there is a bunch of misinformation such as "requires group reports to get someone punished", that typically calls for a bunch of down votes as people know that isn't the truth.
But is there improvements that can be made? Sure there is! An easier access to resources explaining how these systems work will help a tonne.
Maybe an other tab in the client that links to things such as Riot's support website / FAQs. Where you can get easily answers to things such as the behavioral system / leaver buster / hextech rewards etc, instead of trying to find it on google with the proper keywords (while not knowing which keywords will give you the proper article).
Watch how a proper structured argument won't get you downvotes.
Kei1432 votesOk, lets have a civil discussion in regards to the behavioral system. Always open to this, especially the ones that have good ideas that can be expanded or tweaked. I'll split this up in 3 post so I can TLDR it.
The truth is, the system is very open-ended, it's only making banned players come back on other accounts and it somehow manages to miss the big stuff while going after every little thing. The whole system fails when banned players are able to make as many accounts as they want for free and when players stop supporting the game due to the system.
When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client.
From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment.
I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic.
Now towards the point of how they miss the mark on the big stuff. I'm guessing you'd be referring to the hate speech toxics, the 'kill yourself' toxics, the intentional feeders, the AFK as a method of griefing.
This is also a common arguement the toxics make, "I said this mild BS and I get banned and yet they say so much worse and nothing happens to them??". This also causes people to downvote them as people are responsible for their own behavior and punished in their own time depending on how frequent they are toxic. Other people will get their punishment in their own time when they hit their punishment threshhold.
So how can this be improved? This is actually a problem that Riot has already acknowledged this problem, it is "poor visibility of the behavioral system". Due to how the notifications work, where you only see the notification if your game you reported got someone punished, and not if they got punished down the road. This has made many people feel that the system doesn't do anything because they don't see the system working.
A Report Card system or something similar would be a nice to have. Tantram mentions that he built something similar for ThunderDome. While we won't be getting exactly this, we may be able to expect some form of "report card" to improve visibility of the system.
Anomander2 votesIf down votes on this board determined placement of the post I could agree with you. However as the board is determined by last updated instead of popularity it really doesn't matter.
Down votes and up votes are just a way for people to show agreement or disagreement not the validity of the post.
People can agree or disagree i don't care. I don't think people should try to dictate to others what they should or should not do.
TiIian2 voteslol there it is with the downvotes. xd
fumiefan2 votesYep. This is a known problem on this board and nothing is being done about it.
This forum is so small and continuously has the same 20 people or so in every single thread. These people are effectively controlling what is said here and making it known that any critiquing of Riot is not allowed. Anyone who is neutral or anti-Riot gets chased out with downvotes, "haha you got banned" burns and harassment.
The Capn Cook1 votesThere are certain people on this forum (Martensitic - guy has 1.5k lifetime votes, doesn't even play the game on this account, and probably has multiple accounts just to spam downvotes on your thread because he doesnt agree with you) who have nothing better to do than sit here and downvote your thread when you need help. Think of it that way because in reality, he really has nothing better to do than to disagree with you. Sure he could do something productive, but whats the fun in that if he's not get a rise out of you?
If you're still not satisfied look at it this way.
People on this discussion board literally have no other way to contribute to society than to make other people upset. Which is exactly what their goal is because their home life isn't that good and that's the sad truth. If it was, they wouldn't be on these forums end of story lmfao.
MacDeath1 votesI think it's some kind of statistic problem: Supposing 5% of the board users are totally immature or retarded fucks and 80% are just neutral readers who just rarely upvote/downvote. Out of 50-70 Boards Users you still get that 2-4 idiots who downvote you with no proper reason. 10% might be some kind of "fast readers" who just follow up on the votes if something has -3 or +4 votes because they think it's legit then.
fumiefan1 votesI'm glad this is being brought up. This is a huge problem on this board and it's being allowed to continue on.
These people aren't reading unfortunately. This is not a place for anyone who critiques Riot and they want us to know this.
The board is also so small that it only takes a few people to completely take it over and that has happened.
Bettnachleger2 votesHow the fuck is that a huge problem? A downvote means nothing for the thread?! The thread doesn't suddenly disappear after some downovotes or something like that ....
It just means, that some people disagree with you?! WTF, how is that SUCH A HUGE problem for you?
ned the kled1 votesi didn't even read your post and i downvoted it.
higura1 votesDo you even read any of it?
i read all of it when i vote, if it`s a downvote then i just find the post nonsense.
regards
higura.
Jo0o1 votesThe vast majority of threads in this section of the boards are people complaining about justifiable bans, which is why they get downvoted.
League is RIDICULOUSLY easy to avoid being punished in (barring false-positive detection of third-party programs, which may or may not even exist), which is why it's really hard to feel sympathy for somebody capable of going through four whole stages of punishment. Basically, act like an adult. Damn.
bad arcade kitty1 votesforum karma system is universally a silly idea
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesYou don't even browse Boards as much as we do, and you think you're allowed to talk about downvotes?
