Rule and Player Disconnect

Derake·Aug 12, 2019·4 votes·2,601 views

I had a game with a brand that went 1/9 and his excuse was "i got autofilled" even though he had 7 deaths by 10 minutes and the adc had 0. They only thing our team said was to stop feeding, stand at tower e.t.c. Asked other team to report and they defended him saying he had a bad game. They said that I was toxic for calling him out feeding and that I'm getting reported. Why is it that feeding/inting is the cardinal sin in this game, but calling it out is somehow toxic?

87 Comments

rujitraAug 12, 20195 votes

Because someone having a bad game is doing nothing wrong. Someone playing a poke-heavy support in their off role is bound to have a bad game. You calling out for having a bad game does nothing for them but it is abusive and harassment. Furthermore, it's not reportable or punishable to die a lot - unless it's intentional.

DerakeAug 12, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Because someone having a bad game is doing nothing wrong. Someone playing a poke-heavy support in their off role is bound to have a bad game. You calling out for having a bad game does nothing for them but it is abusive and harassment. Furthermore, it's not reportable or punishable to die a lot - unless it's intentional.

The brand was walking into them and dying. The adc is a top main and was off role too, but had 0 deaths until 9-10 mins. And I think you need to understand the definition of abuse and harassment. Calling out toxic behavior isn't either of those.

rujitraAug 12, 20194 votes

Yes, it is. Because you are not the judge, jury, or executioner. You do not get to decide that they are intentionally feeding just because they die a lot.

Two people in an off lane, one of whom is playing much more aggressively than the other, and they have no synergy.

You are attempting to find some reason to blame others for the loss and your lack of progress. Stop focusing on who you can blame. It's not healthy. Hence why behavior such as yours is prohibited.

Further, there's absolutely no reason for you to ask for reports - more reports against someone do absolutely nothing.

DerakeAug 12, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it is. Because you are not the judge, jury, or executioner. You do not get to decide that they are intentionally feeding just because they die a lot.

Two people in an off lane, one of whom is playing much more aggressively than the other, and they have no synergy.

You are attempting to find some reason to blame others for the loss and your lack of progress. Stop focusing on who you can blame. It's not healthy. Hence why behavior such as yours is prohibited.

Further, there's absolutely no reason for you to ask for reports - more reports against someone do absolutely nothing.

First I don't care that I lost, I care because there is some sort of disconnect between the notion of not liking intentionally feeding players and player reaction to it in game. ESPECIALLY when it comes from the enemy team that only benefits from the behavior. Secondly, as the player in the game I do have some say hence why they offer a report function specifically asking for my feedback. Also every player is somewhat responsible for the outcome of the game so to say that "im attempting to find some reason to blame others for the loss" isn't an objective or fair statement. Thirdly, if the volume of reports doesn't matter why does the other team even get the option anyway, if all it takes is one report to accordingly punish a player?

rujitraAug 12, 20192 votes

Because any player can independently decide that they want to report. Maybe the enemy thinks someone is harassing them in all chat and reports them for it. Maybe the enemy lane opponent saw them flash under tower for a death and thinks they may have been intentionally feeding.

More reports do nothing, and report calling is harassment.

DerakeAug 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Because any player can independently decide that they want to report. Maybe the enemy thinks someone is harassing them in all chat and reports them for it. Maybe the enemy lane opponent saw them flash under tower for a death and thinks they may have been intentionally feeding.

More reports do nothing, and report calling is harassment.

Saying "report brand please" is not aggressive, intimidation, threatening or offensive, and therefore is not harassment.

rujitraAug 12, 20191 votes

According to Merriam-Webster, Harass is defined as:

to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct

You created an unpleasant or hostile situation for at a minimum the brand, and very likely everyone in the game, and I can guarantee Brand did not "welcome" or "invite" your verbal conduct.

DerakeAug 12, 20193 votes

{quoted}

According to Merriam-Webster, Harass is defined as:

You created an unpleasant or hostile situation for at a minimum the brand, and very likely everyone in the game, and I can guarantee Brand did not "welcome" or "invite" your verbal conduct.

If he didn't want to engage at all the brand would have said nothing. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean it is inherently hostile or bad.

rujitraAug 12, 20191 votes

Tearing a rift between your teammates, blaming them, and making accusations certainly isn't making the environment less hostile or more pleasant.

DerakeAug 13, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Tearing a rift between your teammates, blaming them, and making accusations certainly isn't making the environment less hostile or more pleasant.

Well neither is them dying, and regardless of them meaning it or not it still has a huge impact on the game. It doesn't appear that the brand made any attempts or choices to reverse the effects of his actions. He could have easily communicated with the adc or the jungler for assistance, but did not. There was no communication at all until around 10 minutes where I called out his performance, which leads me to believe that he was doing it intentionally.

rujitraAug 13, 20191 votes

Someone being bad at the game is not reportable, nor does it give you the right to harass them.

DerakeAug 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Someone being bad at the game is not reportable, nor does it give you the right to harass them.

The point i'm trying to make is that what I said isn't harassment. Just because someone says something you don't like or it makes you uncomfortable doesn't make it harassment. If your boss said "you're fired" it doesn't mean you can sue them or get your job back because you were upset by it. Also I said I believe this person was intentionally dying, I believed it to be more than just being bad at the game. I reported it because I thought it was intentional, and was hoping more reports would make it more noticeable to riot, where it is their decision to decided intent.

rujitraAug 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

The point i'm trying to make is that what I said isn't harassment. Just because someone says something you don't like or it makes you uncomfortable doesn't make it harassment. If your boss said "you're fired" it doesn't mean you can sue them or get your job back because you were upset by it. Also I said I believe this person was intentionally dying, I believed it to be more than just being bad at the game. I reported it because I thought it was intentional, and was hoping more reports would make it more noticeable to riot, where it is their decision to decided intent.

No, it is.

I gave you the literal definition of harassment. What you did meets the definition of harassment. Period. You cannot argue that. At all.

Your ignorance of the rules/systems does not make your actions okay.

DerakeAug 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No, it is.

I gave you the literal definition of harassment. What you did meets the definition of harassment. Period. You cannot argue that. At all.

Your ignorance of the rules/systems does not make your actions okay.

You're acting as context and intent doesn't matter. This isn't just black and white but okay.

DerakeAug 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No, it is.

I gave you the literal definition of harassment. What you did meets the definition of harassment. Period. You cannot argue that. At all.

Your ignorance of the rules/systems does not make your actions okay.

Also going by that logic I could report the enemy team for saying they were gonna report me just because they wanted a response out of me. But I know that's not how harassment works even though I didn't like what they said.

rujitraAug 13, 20191 votes

Yes, that is reportable if they are using "report X" as a means to harass/flame you.

"Not liking it" doesn't factor into it. It was negative communication that was unwanted and uninvited and caused an unpleasant and hostile environment in the game.

Again, your ignorance of the rules does not matter. This is not a public street where people have "freedom of speech". You are expected to be a civil, respectful, and polite teammate. Period. It does not matter that they started it. You must follow the rules. Your ignorance of the rules DOES NOT MATTER. It does not change the rules.

DerakeAug 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes, that is reportable if they are using "report X" as a means to harass/flame you.

"Not liking it" doesn't factor into it. It was negative communication that was unwanted and uninvited and caused an unpleasant and hostile environment in the game.

Again, your ignorance of the rules does not matter. This is not a public street where people have "freedom of speech". You are expected to be a civil, respectful, and polite teammate. Period. It does not matter that they started it. You must follow the rules. Your ignorance of the rules DOES NOT MATTER. It does not change the rules.

I was both civil and respectful there was no vulgarity or aggression used. Don't know how you can assume what was said and what I perceive as negative. The enemy team saying they are going to report me isn't inherently toxic. None of them were being aggressive or threatening, because if they were then it could be harassment. What is unpleasant or hostile is subjective to the person, like I said before if your boss said you're fired you can't leverage that against them because you didn't like it. Legally to be charged with harassment there has to be clear means of harm or aggression, which in the game there was non in each sides.

dead chineoAug 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

According to Merriam-Webster, Harass is defined as:

You created an unpleasant or hostile situation for at a minimum the brand, and very likely everyone in the game, and I can guarantee Brand did not "welcome" or "invite" your verbal conduct.

I was in the game, the brand was literally trolling and running it down. You all just assume he was being harassed, people in this game can just int, troll, play like shit, ruin everyone else experience and then you guys white knight them. I don't get it

zPOOPzAug 13, 20192 votes

Why do you want to report him? Is it because you want him to get banned/punished? Asking for report to get someone banned IS a threat to the livelihood of his account. Threatening to get someone banned/punished is harassment ESPECIALLY since 1 report has the same weight as 9 reports. Asking for report serves no purpose other than to antagonize the one you are threatening/harassing.

DerakeAug 13, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Why do you want to report him? Is it because you want him to get banned/punished? Asking for report to get someone banned IS a threat to the livelihood of his account. Threatening to get someone banned/punished is harassment ESPECIALLY since 1 report has the same weight as 9 reports. Asking for report serves no purpose other than to antagonize the one you are threatening/harassing.

Because if the person is actually guilty of breaking the rules they deserve to be punished. I as a player believed he was intentionally dying and ruining the game, and therefore wanted attention brought to it. Perspective from all players in the game can be helpful when deciding punishment, since they are the people in it. And where is the statement that 1 report is the same as 9, I would actually like to see the thread or discussion about that and how reports work. I also don't know where the threatening the livelihood of an account is even a thing outside of threatening hacking or ddosing.

zPOOPzAug 13, 20192 votes

Then you, as part of a player of that game should report him and keep it to yourself. Do you want to play a game where you can be punished just because someone said you did something and the people who reported you did not personally witness you actually did it? Do you want to play a game where you can be punished because someone lied about you using slurs or int to get everyone to report you even if you did no such thing?

This is why asking for report is pointless and against the rules. If other people witnessed the deed, they can decide for themselves if it is worth reporting for themselves. If they did not witness racial slur being thrown, but reported based on hearsay, that's a shitty system and thankfully the IFS doesn't work that way.

DerakeAug 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Then you, as part of a player of that game should report him and keep it to yourself. Do you want to play a game where you can be punished just because someone said you did something and the people who reported you did not personally witness you actually did it? Do you want to play a game where you can be punished because someone lied about you using slurs or int to get everyone to report you even if you did no such thing?

This is why asking for report is pointless and against the rules. If other people witnessed the deed, they can decide for themselves if it is worth reporting for themselves. If they did not witness racial slur being thrown, but reported based on hearsay, that's a shitty system and thankfully the IFS doesn't work that way.

In this case the enemy team and my team saw him feeding though. There is no he said she said here. Also riot still reviews the cases they don't just use number of reports to actually enforce punishment, and I never said that. I said that I wanted reports to have the case reach riots attention and that more perspectives might be helpful.

zPOOPzAug 13, 20192 votes

In that case, you should do it the correct way and quietly report him in game without saying anything (that will make sure you don't get into trouble) and then file a support ticket after game (that will make sure he gets into trouble). If you want to reach Rito attention, then don't rely on the IFS and number of reports, which don't really do anything to make sure Rito review it any faster because everything go through the IFS (the bots) anyway and number of reports are not consider. File a support ticket.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us

DerakeAug 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In that case, you should do it the correct way and quietly report him in game without saying anything (that will make sure you don't get into trouble) and then file a support ticket after game (that will make sure he gets into trouble). If you want to reach Rito attention, then don't rely on the IFS and number of reports, which don't really do anything to make sure Rito review it any faster because everything go through the IFS (the bots) anyway and number of reports are not consider. File a support ticket.

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us

That's the point I was trying to make the whole time is that I wasn't trying to say anything to get me or anyone unjust trouble. All I wanted is for this player to get attention from riot on this specific incident and I thought that having players report him would work better than just a 1 report.

TalonyteAug 13, 20191 votes

I was reported by a troll in ranked and I got banned because a troll wanted me to get banned. it was ranked.

zPOOPzAug 13, 20192 votes

No... you got banned because you did SOMETHING against the rules the IFS detected... report =/= punish. There is a review in the middle (a.k.a the IFS). If review found nothing, then report will be thrown out. If you want to discuss your ban, make your own thread and post match history or chat log. If you think that's a false ban, submit a support ticket. You can report me 9x each and every single game I play in ANY mode and I guaranteed I will not be punished.

I've had my account since Season 3 without so much as a chat restriction and I talked a lot in 80% of games I play across all game modes including ranked. I'm sure I've accumulated quite a bit of reports. They do nothing because I did nothing wrong.

TalonyteAug 13, 20192 votes

Not really, stop thinking riot employees are perfect beings, stop being so biased. they can still do errors because no one is perfect.

zPOOPzAug 13, 20192 votes

Is this ban a game play offense or verbal offense? If you think you ban is in error and want to discuss it, then make your own thread and post your UNEDITED chat logs of all games shown or every match histories shown on your report card (depends on the type of punishment). If you want to prove that rito employee did do you error, then prove it.

TalonyteAug 13, 20191 votes

Maybe you haven't done anything wrong because hrmmm maybe you are a bad player so there is no one worse to be mean to

DerakeAug 12, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it is. Because you are not the judge, jury, or executioner. You do not get to decide that they are intentionally feeding just because they die a lot.

Two people in an off lane, one of whom is playing much more aggressively than the other, and they have no synergy.

You are attempting to find some reason to blame others for the loss and your lack of progress. Stop focusing on who you can blame. It's not healthy. Hence why behavior such as yours is prohibited.

Further, there's absolutely no reason for you to ask for reports - more reports against someone do absolutely nothing.

And calling someone walking into the enemy team and dying "playing aggressive" is a warping what actually happened. You're applying way to much leeway to the player in question, which normally is good because you want to make sure beyond a reasonable doubt, however you just straight up changed what I said.

GatekeeperTDSAug 12, 20194 votes

Calling out toxic behavior isn't either of those.

"Calling out" anyone's anything only serves to derail the game even further. If you think Brand is intentionally feeding, report him at the end of the game. Talking about it in chat, especially to the enemy team, is not going to help the situation at all.

DerakeAug 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

"Calling out" anyone's anything only serves to derail the game even further. If you think Brand is intentionally feeding, report him at the end of the game. Talking about it in chat, especially to the enemy team, is not going to help the situation at" When a player feeds intentionally or not it already drastically alters the outcome of the game. Trying to console the player such as "its no big deal" or "it doesnt matter" or "we got this" doesnt work. I've tried.

GatekeeperTDSAug 12, 20193 votes

When a player feeds intentionally or not it already drastically alters the outcome of the game. Trying to console the player such as "its no big deal" or "it doesnt matter" or "we got this" doesnt work. I've tried.

OK. Then try the third option you seem to be ignoring. Say nothing and continue on with your game.

DerakeAug 12, 20193 votes

{quoted}

OK. Then try the third option you seem to be ignoring. Say nothing and continue on with your game.

Ok. Ignore detrimental behavior because ignoring problems is how they're solved.

GatekeeperTDSAug 12, 20194 votes

You can't solve what another player is doing! If positivity didn't work, and negativity didn't work, what's your only other option? Keep bitching in all chat to the enemy team? No, you let it go and move on.

DerakeAug 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

You can't solve what another player is doing! If positivity didn't work, and negativity didn't work, what's your only other option? Keep bitching in all chat to the enemy team? No, you let it go and move on.

The assumption you made is that I was bitching or complaining, when all I asked was "report brand please".

GatekeeperTDSAug 12, 20192 votes

And asking the enemy team for reports derails the game even further, involves them in the drama, and won't increase the chances of Brand getting punished especially if he wasn't actually intentionally feeding.

DerakeAug 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

And asking the enemy team for reports derails the game even further, involves them in the drama, and won't increase the chances of Brand getting punished especially if he wasn't actually intentionally feeding.

I mentioned this to someone else as well, but why would the enemy team even have the option to report if it only takes one report to appropriately punish someone especially since in this case, it impacts the team the player is on hence where the report would come from. Also, the game was over when I asked for them to report anyway the ff vote went through 4 seconds later. The root of this post is where the disconnect between the disdain for inting players and the actually reaction when confronted with one. I called it out it a way that wasn't inflammatory, rude, or angry. I stated the action I saw and asked for a report against the behavior. Even if it isn't up to me, it is up to riot and reports are the best way these instances. brought to their attention.

GatekeeperTDSAug 12, 20193 votes

The community as a whole has a very, very high sense of disdain for legitimate intentional feeding. We have no evidence of intentional feeding here.

DerakeAug 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

The community as a whole has a very, very high sense of disdain for legitimate intentional feeding. We have no evidence of intentional feeding here.

The reaction to the post was me being toxic by calling it out what I perceive is toxic.** It is almost impossible to prove a negative.** I was in the game and saw what happened. The numerical digits the game uses to score players would be context, but immediately gets disregarded as "a bad game". I get told by players and rioters alike to report the behavior, which I do. But i'm confused on how calling it out is considered toxic even if it's done in a civil matter. Where is line drawn between a bad game or intentionally feeding? Just because a player gives an excuse doesn't mean its truthful, or that they can just be hiding it. At the end of the day it's up to riot regardless of context or the lack of so I still don't see how I am the one when I am trying to help combat the behavior I have been told to or suggested to.

GatekeeperTDSAug 12, 20192 votes

This has run its course, and it's still a you problem. Have a good night!

DerakeAug 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

This has run its course, and it's still a you problem. Have a good night!

Alright then, just ignore all the points I brought up. Enjoy your echo chamber.

DerakeAug 12, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prodigious Mid,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lze5WjUJ,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-08-12T21:37:55.231+0000)

That guy has been telling me to do nothing on my discussion too. It's to write something in the discussion board if you find a problem with the game, and honestly, your issue is something that needs to be said.

However, it is also easy to be seen that your argument is subjective because that brand could've just been having a bad game.

Let's look at it this way, if you're 3 levels under and have significantly less gold due to the fact that you died 3x? 2x? and wasted time in the death screen and walking. There is nothing you can do to survive, even under the tower.

As a top lane main, something like this is something I face daily as it is REALLY hard to get out of a slump once you are losing. League is like an exponential curve. if you are winning it's REALLY easy to continue winning due to gold and experience. If you are losing, vice versa.

Also, your jungler probably found it really difficult to approach a lane that was losing that hard and couldn't do anything to help the bot lane out which adds into the exponential curve of league.

I don't care about winning or losing here. My issue is that I am calling out behavior that I've been told to, and then I'm toxic because of it. I'm trying to get an answer but it's just assumptions and speculation about what happened in MY game about me. I'm told I'm not the judge, jury, or executioner but people can just assume against me in that manner.

DerakeAug 12, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luigi Nooooo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lze5WjUJ,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000005,timestamp=2019-08-12T22:48:29.620+0000)

No one told you to call out inters. Riot tells us to report inters. So report them and stop trying to summon the brigade and shit on a player that is already doing poorly, bc if they aren't inting, you're just kicking someone who is already down and making your whole team upset.

One person isn't the whole team. You have no way of knowing how the other players feel or if they even care.

TalonyteAug 13, 20193 votes

That is a lie. all he said was to report him. I think you need to calm down

TalonyteAug 13, 20193 votes

yes we do. a witness, Derake is the evidence.

Tele IIAug 12, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I mentioned this to someone else as well, but why would the enemy team even have the option to report if it only takes one report to appropriately punish someone especially since in this case, it impacts the team the player is on hence where the report would come from. Also, the game was over when I asked for them to report anyway the ff vote went through 4 seconds later. The root of this post is where the disconnect between the disdain for inting players and the actually reaction when confronted with one. I called it out it a way that wasn't inflammatory, rude, or angry. I stated the action I saw and asked for a report against the behavior. Even if it isn't up to me, it is up to riot and reports are the best way these instances. brought to their attention.

I report enemy inters, because I dont play the game to get free kills and easy wins. I want a competitive back n forth. They ruin my experience even when on the enemy team... so I report them. Thats why they give me the option.

TalonyteAug 13, 20192 votes

true, saying report brand isn't complaining yeesh. [zombie-brand-clap]

Tele IIAug 12, 20192 votes